Police misbehavior thread

Seen something interesting in the news or on the intertubes? Discuss it here.

Moderators: Zamfir, Hawknc, Moderators General, Prelates

KnightExemplar
Posts: 5494
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:58 pm UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby KnightExemplar » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:52 am UTC

Princess Marzipan wrote:People supporting Dorner don't, actually, give two fucks about Dorner.


There is the problem. There are plenty of groups who are fighting police corruption that deserve your support.

Otherwise, you get bullshit like people supporting the IRA just because they're taking stabs at the UK. It is more important to be selective of the groups that you support, than to be selective of the groups you call an enemy.

Rallying behind a madman after he publishes a manifesto encourages other madmen to perform similar actions. This is precisely the behavior that encouraged the Virginia Tech shooter, the Denver "Dark Knight" Shooter, and so forth. They publish manifestos and hope that people rally behind them. Under no circumstances should the public encourage this.
First Strike +1/+1 and Indestructible.

Princess Marzipan
Posts: 7717
Joined: Sun May 27, 2007 5:28 am UTC
Location: neither a road, nor an island

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Princess Marzipan » Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:51 pm UTC

I'm sorry, but what the fuck are you talking about?

Nobody rallied behind those shooters. Yes, people glorified and hyped up their actions by focusing their attention on this or that dipshit asshole who figured killing dozens of innocent people was the best way to be remembered.

People are rallying behind Dorner as opposed to behind any of those "plenty of groups who are fighting police corruption" because what have those groups even accomplished lately? Name one, and name something it's done to fix the problem of police corruption, favoritism, and tribe mentality. Note that if you have to use Google (or any search engine) to fulfill this request, that's just supporting my point: What victories have been won by populist coalitions against the encroaching police state mentality? Hold on, I'll research it. What victories has this Dorner guy won? Oh, he's straight up killed some cops and they haven't been able to do anything about it yet? Fuck yeah, go that guy!

Let me be clear that there are ZERO good reasons to support Dorner. But people aren't supporting HIM; they're supporting the fact that the LAPD isn't getting its way yet.

And let's also be careful to make a distinction between rooting for someone from the sidelines and actually offering any substantive support whatsoever. One of them takes no actual effort and accomplishes nothing - Dorner has cheerleaders, not supporters.
"It's Saturday night. I've got no date, a two-liter of Shasta, and my all-Rush mixtape. Let's rock!"
"I am just about to be brilliant!"
General_Norris, on feminism, wrote:If you lose your six Pokémon, you lost.

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 10550
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:13 pm UTC

You'd be surprised to learn how much impact cheerleaders have on the final score of a game...

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 10550
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:19 am UTC

Update; Dorner cornered in a cabin in the woods, only a matter of time now. You'd think Cali could contact a military base and just send in a helicopter or something to turn the entire cabin into toothpicks, but whatever. He killed another police officer in the meantime though.


UPDATE:

The cabin Dorner is believed to be in is currently on fire...

UPDATE:

...and Dorner apparently burned to death.

User avatar
NieXS
Why's the rum gone?
Posts: 286
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:10 am UTC
Location: Brazil

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby NieXS » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:15 am UTC

Police are now reporting that no body was found in the cabin. And they apparently set fire to the building: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNk-bV4 ... e=youtu.be
she/her


User avatar
addams
Posts: 10341
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:44 am UTC
Location: Oregon Coast: 97444

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:40 am UTC

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local ... 06031.html

We will never know.
Still; So, F. 451.

Fiction? Dark, frightening fiction?
Could be.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

User avatar
Metaphysician
Posts: 519
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:58 pm UTC
Location: WV, The Tenth Circle of Hell

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Metaphysician » Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:17 am UTC

NieXS wrote:Police are now reporting that no body was found in the cabin. And they apparently set fire to the building: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNk-bV4 ... e=youtu.be


So this guy has killed three innocent people.

Cops have shot at three innocent people (none killed as far as I know) and murdered one perfectly innocent cabin?
What should young people do with their lives today? Many things, obviously. But the most daring thing is to create stable communities in which the terrible disease of loneliness can be cured.
-Kurt Vonnegut

Chen
Posts: 5582
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:53 pm UTC
Location: Montreal

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Chen » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:03 pm UTC

Did the police set the building on fire or did Dorner? I can't seem to find any article that says how/why the fire actually started.

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 10550
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:13 pm UTC

The police said 'lets burn this fucket down' on Niexs's link. So, probably the LAPD.

User avatar
Belial
A terrible sound heard from a distance
Posts: 30450
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:04 am UTC
Contact:

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Belial » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:16 pm UTC

Demonstrating their usual penchant for restraint and proportional response.
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 10550
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:37 pm UTC

It'd be hilariously sad (I like dark humor) if he had been holding hostage a child of the guy that set the blaze.

I hope the cabin owner gets compensation at least for his bonfire being commandeered by the police.

User avatar
The Great Hippo
Swans ARE SHARP
Posts: 7368
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:43 am UTC
Location: behind you

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby The Great Hippo » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:49 pm UTC

I don't have sound for my youtube videos right now. But... seriously? The police surrounded a cottage in the woods where the suspect was located and they decided to burn it down?

User avatar
omgryebread
Posts: 1393
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:03 am UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby omgryebread » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:56 pm UTC

From what I heard on NPR this morning, they used tear gas which caught on fire. Which actually does sound like a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
avatar from Nononono by Lynn Okamoto.

Роберт
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 1:56 am UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Роберт » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:15 pm UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:I don't have sound for my youtube videos right now. But... seriously? The police surrounded a cottage in the woods where the suspect was located and they decided to burn it down?

Well, in this case, the suspect was actually actively shooting and killing people... seems like a reasonable action to me.
The Great Hippo wrote:[T]he way we treat suspected terrorists genuinely terrifies me.

KnightExemplar
Posts: 5494
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:58 pm UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby KnightExemplar » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:22 pm UTC

Metaphysician wrote:
NieXS wrote:Police are now reporting that no body was found in the cabin. And they apparently set fire to the building: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNk-bV4 ... e=youtu.be


So this guy has killed three innocent people.


The third innocent person killed was a cop guarding one of Dorner's targets. There were four cops stationed to guard someone, and Dorner did in fact show up. We can expect that without the cops guarding that person, more people would have died. Dorner also shot and killed a fourth guy in this last firefight.

I don't think we have a list of the number of injuries that Dorner has done. But he's shot at more than just those 4 people. At least one officier is in the hospital from gunshot wounds.

Cops have shot at three innocent people (none killed as far as I know) and murdered one perfectly innocent cabin?


The Youtube link seems to imply that one Police officer wanted to burn the cabin down. However, there seems to be no other evidence that states that the LAPD explicitly wanted to burn the cabin down. Its important to keep the ramblings of some unknown cop separate from official Police actions.

omgryebread wrote:From what I heard on NPR this morning, they used tear gas which caught on fire. Which actually does sound like a perfectly reasonable thing to do.


Sounds reasonable to me as well. One main problem was that the Media was not allowed near the cabin, because they knew that Dorner was watching / listening to the media. Furthermore, it was too dangerous for them to enter anyway. So its not like we're gonna get independent review of these facts.

Princess Marzipan wrote:People are rallying behind Dorner as opposed to behind any of those "plenty of groups who are fighting police corruption" because what have those groups even accomplished lately? Name one, and name something it's done to fix the problem of police corruption, favoritism, and tribe mentality. Note that if you have to use Google (or any search engine) to fulfill this request, that's just supporting my point: What victories have been won by populist coalitions against the encroaching police state mentality? Hold on, I'll research it. What victories has this Dorner guy won? Oh, he's straight up killed some cops and they haven't been able to do anything about it yet? Fuck yeah, go that guy!


Off the top of my head? Occupy. You know, that thread you and I were discussing for like the better half of a year? Or is your memory so poor that you can't manage to even remember that thread which pretty much turned into Police criticism? As expected (and as I noted in the thread), Occupy accomplished nothing however, but that was due to poor leadership, poor focus, and acceptance of violent methods. But that was an implementation detail, what they stood for was something worth rallying behind. With better focus, maybe they could have effected the election. (Occupy was poorly timed frankly. Starting summer 2012 would have definitely effected the elections, but November 2011 was just too far away to really have a substantial effect)

With the aid of Google, policeabuse.com appears to offer lawyers who specialize in suing corrupt cops. They have a list of cases that they've won on their (very very crappy) website.

So yes, you can rally behind groups against Police abuse / corruption. And those groups exist, and are part of the news.

And let's also be careful to make a distinction between rooting for someone from the sidelines and actually offering any substantive support whatsoever. One of them takes no actual effort and accomplishes nothing - Dorner has cheerleaders, not supporters.


And that is all that the next Virginia Tech shooter wants. The media should have not published Dorner's manifesto, doing so only encourages further people to undergo these suicide missions of destruction. They don't need or want support, these are radicalized lone wolf gunmen... who believe violence is the only way to achieve the goals they seek. We shouldn't listen to people who take this approach, lest more copycats spawn. They shouldn't have published the Virginia Tech shooter's manifesto. They shouldn't have published this guy's either.

They only want cheerleaders.
Last edited by KnightExemplar on Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:42 pm UTC, edited 3 times in total.
First Strike +1/+1 and Indestructible.

Роберт
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 1:56 am UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Роберт » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:24 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote: One main problem was that the Media was not allowed near the cabin, because they knew that Dorner was watching / listening to the media. Furthermore, it was too dangerous for them to enter anyway. So its not like we're gonna get independent review of these facts.

Shouldn't the media decide what is too dangerous and what isn't? And what's wrong with requiring a 1 day delay on broadcasting information on Dorner? Seems like pretty weak reasoning to disallow the media...
The Great Hippo wrote:[T]he way we treat suspected terrorists genuinely terrifies me.

User avatar
The Great Hippo
Swans ARE SHARP
Posts: 7368
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:43 am UTC
Location: behind you

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby The Great Hippo » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:25 pm UTC

omgryebread wrote:From what I heard on NPR this morning, they used tear gas which caught on fire. Which actually does sound like a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
Oh! Yes, that would definitely make a lot more sense.
Роберт wrote:Well, in this case, the suspect was actually actively shooting and killing people... seems like a reasonable action to me.
I admit I'm not familiar with law enforcement protocol, but when a dangerous man with a gun is alone in a cottage in the woods, I don't think 'light the place on fire' is the correct response. Even if he's shooting at people.

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 10550
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:27 pm UTC

Why didn't they pull an Iraq War I; CNN reports the wrong troop movements and Saddam uses it as sound intelligence. 'Police are approaching from the south side, while snipers are trained on the west and northeast sides...'

engr
Posts: 322
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:08 am UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby engr » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:32 pm UTC

Роберт wrote:Well, in this case, the suspect was actually actively shooting and killing people... seems like a reasonable action to me.


Police officers are not people, remember? They are a gang of predominantly white heterosexual males voting Republican. Fuck them. If they weren't such cowards, they would've entered unarmed and tried to convince him to surrender, and would then give him a gold medal a size of a plate for fighting police corruption. Sure, that way there would be a few more dead cops, but hey, at least the cop-haters here would be happy, that's what matters. [/sarcasm]

CorruptUser wrote:It'd be hilariously sad (I like dark humor) if he had been holding hostage a child of the guy that set the blaze.


Well, it looks like you wont get the satisfaction of knowing that. AP reports that they found only one charred body with Donner's driver license. It will take a few days to confirm the identity with more certainty, though.
I hope that bastard didn't have a chance to shoot himself before flames got to him.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. Gilbert K. Chesterton

User avatar
The Great Hippo
Swans ARE SHARP
Posts: 7368
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:43 am UTC
Location: behind you

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby The Great Hippo » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:34 pm UTC

engr wrote:Police officers are not people, remember? They are a gang of predominantly white heterosexual males voting Republican. Fuck them. If they weren't such cowards, they would've entered unarmed and tried to convince him to surrender, and would then give him a gold medal a size of a plate for fighting police corruption. Sure, that way there would be a few more dead cops, but hey, at least the cop-haters here would be happy, that's what matters. [/sarcasm]
Is it okay if I'm just happy when no one dies?
engr wrote:I hope that bastard didn't have a chance to shoot himself before flames got to him.
Hate begets hate, young padawan. Turn not to the dark side.

KnightExemplar
Posts: 5494
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:58 pm UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby KnightExemplar » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:36 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Why didn't they pull an Iraq War I; CNN reports the wrong troop movements and Saddam uses it as sound intelligence. 'Police are approaching from the south side, while snipers are trained on the west and northeast sides...'


For all we know, the Media thought that those troop movements were correct, but were also tricked by the CIA. Its probably too much to expect a local city police force to be as coordinated as the CIA and the Army.

Роберт wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote: One main problem was that the Media was not allowed near the cabin, because they knew that Dorner was watching / listening to the media. Furthermore, it was too dangerous for them to enter anyway. So its not like we're gonna get independent review of these facts.

Shouldn't the media decide what is too dangerous and what isn't? And what's wrong with requiring a 1 day delay on broadcasting information on Dorner? Seems like pretty weak reasoning to disallow the media...


Well, "not allowed near" vs "the media kindly cooperated with the Police's request". I dunno what the case was. I'm betting on the latter.

I admit I'm not familiar with law enforcement protocol, but when a dangerous man with a gun is alone in a cottage in the woods, I don't think 'light the place on fire' is the correct response. Even if he's shooting at people.


Is rampant speculation enough to seed facts into people now? As far as we know, Dorner could have started the fire.
First Strike +1/+1 and Indestructible.

User avatar
Diadem
Posts: 5654
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:03 am UTC
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Diadem » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:43 pm UTC

engr wrote:I hope that bastard didn't have a chance to shoot himself before flames got to him.

Yes! Go torture! The American response!


Have we all forgotten that Dorner was a suspect. Killing him (when not in self-defence) is still murder. There is no justification for it.
Last edited by Diadem on Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:44 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
It's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I have an independent mind, you are an eccentric, he is round the twist
- Bernard Woolley in Yes, Prime Minister

Роберт
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 1:56 am UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Роберт » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:43 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:Well, "not allowed near" vs "the media kindly cooperated with the Police's request". I dunno what the case was. I'm betting on the latter.
This seems like a good chance for me to make some money.

That's not exactly how things went down with the "no media" in the occupy protests.
The Great Hippo wrote:[T]he way we treat suspected terrorists genuinely terrifies me.

Роберт
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 1:56 am UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Роберт » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:44 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:
engr wrote:I hope that bastard didn't have a chance to shoot himself before flames got to him.

Yes! Go torture! The American response!

Maybe he's just concerned for his soul. Suicide being a guarantee of hell in a lot of American's minds.
The Great Hippo wrote:[T]he way we treat suspected terrorists genuinely terrifies me.

User avatar
Angua
Don't call her Delphine.
Posts: 5944
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:42 pm UTC
Location: UK/[St. Kitts and] Nevis Occasionally, I migrate to the US for a bit

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Angua » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:47 pm UTC

engr wrote:I hope that bastard didn't have a chance to shoot himself before flames got to him.


Actually the smoke generally suffocates you to death first. But it's nice of you to bring up how dying in a fire is such a horrible death in such a sympathetic way for all the other people who die in fires.
Crabtree's bludgeon: “no set of mutually inconsistent observations can exist for which some human intellect cannot conceive a coherent explanation, however complicated”
GNU Terry Pratchett

KnightExemplar
Posts: 5494
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:58 pm UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby KnightExemplar » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:48 pm UTC

Роберт wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote:Well, "not allowed near" vs "the media kindly cooperated with the Police's request". I dunno what the case was. I'm betting on the latter.
This seems like a good chance for me to make some money.

That's not exactly how things went down with the "no media" in the occupy protests.


"The media" had a helicopter stationed in the area. They very easily could have just flown over the police barricade and watched the event if they wanted.
First Strike +1/+1 and Indestructible.

Heisenberg
Posts: 3789
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 8:48 pm UTC
Location: Uncertain

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Heisenberg » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:51 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:"The media" had a helicopter stationed in the area. They very easily could have just flown over the police barricade and watched the event if they wanted.
Doesn't explain why there wasn't anyone on the ground observing. The media isn't known for 'kind cooperation.' And in a situation like that, the police aren't known for 'requests.'

The LAPD press conference yesterday indicated that the police department was not controlling the situation, and that the police chief was not there. The operation was conducted by the local county Sherriffs, who I'm more likely to believe since they didn't have quite as big an axe to grind.

engr
Posts: 322
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:08 am UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby engr » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:01 pm UTC

Angua wrote:Actually the smoke generally suffocates you to death first. But it's nice of you to bring up how dying in a fire is such a horrible death in such a sympathetic way for all the other people who die in fires.


You see, I am a firefighter. Part of my duty is to rescue people from fires, even if they are murderers. However, having sympathy for murderers who kill my brothers is not in my job description. And for me, a police officer is as much of a brother as a firefighter or a paramedic.
I may regret my words and my response later, but right now my reaction is "I hope the murderer suffered". I will leave it at that.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. Gilbert K. Chesterton

Роберт
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 1:56 am UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Роберт » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:20 pm UTC

Look, overwhelming support for Dorner!
The Great Hippo wrote:[T]he way we treat suspected terrorists genuinely terrifies me.

User avatar
freezeblade
Posts: 1406
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:11 pm UTC
Location: Oakland

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby freezeblade » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:27 pm UTC

engr wrote:
Angua wrote:Actually the smoke generally suffocates you to death first. But it's nice of you to bring up how dying in a fire is such a horrible death in such a sympathetic way for all the other people who die in fires.


You see, I am a firefighter. Part of my duty is to rescue people from fires, even if they are murderers. However, having sympathy for murderers who kill my brothers is not in my job description. And for me, a police officer is as much of a brother as a firefighter or a paramedic.
I may regret my words and my response later, but right now my reaction is "I hope the murderer suffered". I will leave it at that.


And I know that I may regret it later as well, but police are not susposed to exact revenge they are tools to facilitate the law, are not susposed to take any side but the law's side, and can not act on their own form of right and wrong. I think part of the outrage here is that even though police stated "we want him apprehended" we all knew that he would never see the inside of a courtroom. And that is exactly what happened, no matter the circumstance.
Belial wrote:I am not even in the same country code as "the mood for this shit."

User avatar
K-R
Posts: 1564
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:42 pm UTC
Location: Australia

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby K-R » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:39 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:The Youtube link seems to imply that one Police officer wanted to burn the cabin down.

I notice how you entirely ignore the allegation of the police shooting at the innocent. Odd, that.

However, there seems to be no other evidence that states that the LAPD explicitly wanted to burn the cabin down. Its important to keep the ramblings of some unknown cop separate from official Police actions.

Quite. We all know the police are entirely reasonable, nonviolent people, who wouldn't dare do something entirely stupid. I mean really, that they've shot at three innocent civilians already and have a habit of shooting dogs repeatedly doesn't necessarily mean they'd decide to burn down a cabin now, does it? Clearly it must have been something else. Sure, you can justify shooting a fleeing man because 'he might have a gun', or even a fleeing dog because...well, it's a dog, and they do have such sharp teeth and the ability to turn around, but how could they possibly justify this? The man was only shooting at people, that's not half as bad as being a dog.

Off the top of my head? Occupy.

I'm sorry, are you claiming Occupy actually had a purpose? Or organisation? Or achievements? As far as I can tell it was a bunch of people who liked camping and free money.

The media should have not published Dorner's manifesto

Yes, it was completely irresponsible of them to publish facts like that. What were they thinking?

Princess Marzipan
Posts: 7717
Joined: Sun May 27, 2007 5:28 am UTC
Location: neither a road, nor an island

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Princess Marzipan » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:11 pm UTC

Knight Exemplar wrote:
Princess Marzipan wrote:
Spoiler:
People are rallying behind Dorner as opposed to behind any of those "plenty of groups who are fighting police corruption" because what have those groups even accomplished lately? Name one, and name something it's done to fix the problem of police corruption, favoritism, and tribe mentality. Note that if you have to use Google (or any search engine) to fulfill this request, that's just supporting my point: What victories have been won by populist coalitions against the encroaching police state mentality? Hold on, I'll research it. What victories has this Dorner guy won? Oh, he's straight up killed some cops and they haven't been able to do anything about it yet? Fuck yeah, go that guy!


Off the top of my head? Occupy. You know, that thread you and I were discussing for like the better half of a year? Or is your memory so poor that you can't manage to even remember that thread which pretty much turned into Police criticism?
Hey, asshole. Quit being an asshole.

As expected (and as I noted in the thread), Occupy accomplished nothing however, but that was due to poor leadership, poor focus, and acceptance of violent methods. But that was an implementation detail, what they stood for was something worth rallying behind. With better focus, maybe they could have effected the election. (Occupy was poorly timed frankly. Starting summer 2012 would have definitely effected the elections, but November 2011 was just too far away to really have a substantial effect)

With the aid of Google, policeabuse.com appears to offer lawyers who specialize in suing corrupt cops. They have a list of cases that they've won on their (very very crappy) website.
So in order to prove a claim that there are groups gaining victories in the fight against police corruption, militarism, and tribalism, you offer as support a nebulous coalition that was the victim of those very things and accomplished, as you freely admit, absolutely nothing in that fight.

*blink*

Thank you for making my point.

There AREN'T groups to rally behind, not that are well-known to the general public and that have accomplished anything of note. NYPD's stop-and-frisk? No-knock raids against innocents? Police just in general acting like bullies? Still problems, still systemically rooted and supported, still realities the general public is subjected to.

There was, though, this one guy fighting a fight that was tangentially related to these things. And recall I haven't been arguing in FAVOR of supporting Dorner - you seem to be arguing rather vehemently that he's not worth supporting. I agree, and have only been answering your question about why he had a following of cheerleaders.

engr wrote:However, having sympathy for murderers who kill my brothers is not in my job description. And for me, a police officer is as much of a brother as a firefighter or a paramedic.
I may regret my words and my response later, but right now my reaction is "I hope the murderer suffered". I will leave it at that.
This is the exact tribe mentality I've been complaining about since I started posting in this thread.

Why are your fellow firefighters, and unfellow paramedics or police officers, your "brothers" (they're all men, right? No women in any of those groups or you'd have sisters too), but the citizenry whose lives and safety are your solemn charge are just...what? Customers? Clients? Annoyances? Whatever they are, they are clearly of notably less import than your COLLEAGUES. (That is what your colleagues are, by the way. They are colleagues.)

A suspect dies in a fire in the woods instead of being brought to justice, a justice your police officer "brothers" are sworn to uphold and protect, and your reaction is FUCK YEAH KILL THAT FUCKER I HOPE HE BURRRNED.

Do you realize this is the exact mentality of the people cheering Dorner on? You are no better than Dorner's cheerleaders; the fact that you're cheering for the 'winning' side does not make you any less brainless in this regard. I'm honestly more appalled at you than the general public: the general public is by and large expected to be kind of dumb about this sort of thing, if only because a small group of dumb people is still capable of yelling very loudly and feigning relevance. You, though. You should know better. Shame on you.
Last edited by Princess Marzipan on Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:13 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
"It's Saturday night. I've got no date, a two-liter of Shasta, and my all-Rush mixtape. Let's rock!"
"I am just about to be brilliant!"
General_Norris, on feminism, wrote:If you lose your six Pokémon, you lost.

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:13 pm UTC

koberulz wrote:I'm sorry, are you claiming Occupy actually had a purpose? Or organisation? Or achievements? As far as I can tell it was a bunch of people who liked camping and free money.

This is a phenomenal example of your quote sniping hindering the actual communication of meaning. Especially that part where in the very paragraph he wrote that, he says precisely what you are trying to be argumentative over.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

User avatar
K-R
Posts: 1564
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:42 pm UTC
Location: Australia

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby K-R » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:18 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:
koberulz wrote:I'm sorry, are you claiming Occupy actually had a purpose? Or organisation? Or achievements? As far as I can tell it was a bunch of people who liked camping and free money.

This is a phenomenal example of your quote sniping hindering the actual communication of meaning. Especially that part where in the very paragraph he wrote that, he says precisely what you are trying to be argumentative over.

He can't possibly have said that, because then it wouldn't be a valid answer to the question to which he was responding at the time. I know it looks an awful lot like he said that, but he must surely be saying something else.

Роберт
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 1:56 am UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Роберт » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:21 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:
koberulz wrote:I'm sorry, are you claiming Occupy actually had a purpose? Or organisation? Or achievements? As far as I can tell it was a bunch of people who liked camping and free money.

This is a phenomenal example of your quote sniping hindering the actual communication of meaning. Especially that part where in the very paragraph he wrote that, he says precisely what you are trying to be argumentative over.

Apparently foeing people does nothing to block it when other people quote them. Sadface.
The Great Hippo wrote:[T]he way we treat suspected terrorists genuinely terrifies me.

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:28 pm UTC

koberulz wrote:
Izawwlgood wrote:
koberulz wrote:I'm sorry, are you claiming Occupy actually had a purpose? Or organisation? Or achievements? As far as I can tell it was a bunch of people who liked camping and free money.

This is a phenomenal example of your quote sniping hindering the actual communication of meaning. Especially that part where in the very paragraph he wrote that, he says precisely what you are trying to be argumentative over.

He can't possibly have said that, because then it wouldn't be a valid answer to the question to which he was responding at the time. I know it looks an awful lot like he said that, but he must surely be saying something else.

You really need to work on your reading comprehension, like the part where he wrote;
KnightExemplar wrote:As expected (and as I noted in the thread), Occupy accomplished nothing however, but that was due to poor leadership, poor focus, and acceptance of violent methods. But that was an implementation detail, what they stood for was something worth rallying behind. With better focus, maybe they could have effected the election.

Or, you know, where he basically made no such claim that Occupy had a purpose, directly stated it was disorganized, attested that it accomplished nothing, and, as far as he could tell, was due to, you know, some stuff that kind of coincides with your little tirade as well.

Try reading the WHOLE post before you respond to six words of it with obnoxious indignation.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

User avatar
K-R
Posts: 1564
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:42 pm UTC
Location: Australia

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby K-R » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:36 pm UTC

Роберт wrote:
Izawwlgood wrote:
koberulz wrote:I'm sorry, are you claiming Occupy actually had a purpose? Or organisation? Or achievements? As far as I can tell it was a bunch of people who liked camping and free money.

This is a phenomenal example of your quote sniping hindering the actual communication of meaning. Especially that part where in the very paragraph he wrote that, he says precisely what you are trying to be argumentative over.

Apparently foeing people does nothing to block it when other people quote them. Sadface.

Making a post for no other purpose than insulting another poster whilst making it clear that they can't retort in any way? That's quite something...





Izawwlgood wrote:You really need to work on your reading comprehension, like the part where he wrote;
KnightExemplar wrote:As expected (and as I noted in the thread), Occupy accomplished nothing however, but that was due to poor leadership, poor focus, and acceptance of violent methods. But that was an implementation detail, what they stood for was something worth rallying behind. With better focus, maybe they could have effected the election.

But that's in direct contradiction of his earlier assertion that 'Occupy' is a valid answer to PM's question. So either he was being sarcastic--badly--or he can't read. He's on an online forum, so it must be the former. Therefore he never said what you're claiming he said. QED.

Sure, I could alternatively have quoted that part, and then responded with something mocking, but that would've come across as though I thought him an idiot, and we wouldn't want that now, would we?

User avatar
Mighty Jalapeno
Inne Juste 7 Dayes I Wille Make You A Hero!
Posts: 11265
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 9:16 pm UTC
Location: Prince George In A Can
Contact:

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:39 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:This is a phenomenal ... paragraph, ... you're ... organized

Come on, you can't seriously think that!

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:42 pm UTC

koberulz wrote:But that's in direct contradiction of his earlier assertion that 'Occupy' is a valid answer to PM's question. So either he was being sarcastic--badly--or he can't read. He's on an online forum, so it must be the former. Therefore he never said what you're claiming he said. QED.

Early assertion? Please link, in full. AFAIK, that comment, which I in full quoted, wherein he says precisely what you did, was the first time Occupy came up in the thread. At the very least, his response to PM *is* his valid answer, and he outlines specifically why he thought Occupy was a bad movement. Why you felt the need to argue with him based on a quote snip, and then restate the very thing he was claiming is what I'm pointing out is your comprehension failure.

Unless of course there was an earlier comment wherein he suggests that Occupy was a fantastic protest. By all means; show me where he said that.

As for the italicized, I urge you to use your powers of reading, and reread the paragraph in which he says exactly what I said he said. I even provided it for you in my previous post. If, and I know this is a big leap, if you find what I'm saying is true, you could even say "Oops, my bad!" But lets not get ahead of ourselves.

@MJ: You have grokked my meaning in it's full.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

User avatar
K-R
Posts: 1564
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:42 pm UTC
Location: Australia

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby K-R » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:49 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:
koberulz wrote:But that's in direct contradiction of his earlier assertion that 'Occupy' is a valid answer to PM's question. So either he was being sarcastic--badly--or he can't read. He's on an online forum, so it must be the former. Therefore he never said what you're claiming he said. QED.

Early assertion? Please link, in full.

It's in the same paragraph you're picking over. Maybe you should read the whole thing before quote-sniping?

PM asks for an example of a movement/organisation/whatever that is well-known and achieved things. KE cites Occupy, in the bit I quoted, then gives a number of reasons Occupy isn't a valid answer, in the bit you quoted. Clearly he thought Occupy was a valid answer--why else would he give it?--so he can't possibly have actually meant anything else in that paragraph. Therefore it can safely be ignored. Sure, he said the words, in the literal sense, but he can't possibly have been attempting to convey that meaning. 'Conveying that meaning' can be rephrased as 'saying that', so it's entirely reasonable to say he never said it, even if he said the words in question, because the only other possibility, as I mentioned earlier, is that he can't read and his presence here would indicate that's not the case.

Your problem is believing that people mean what they say all the time.


Return to “News & Articles”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests