Police misbehavior thread

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:50 pm UTC

ok.
Tempers run high.

Do outsiders know how One Person can take on the Grievances of Others?
It can go Both ways.

On one side it is called 'ScapeGoating' and other associated words.
On the other side, it is a sort of Messiah Complex; Loved from afar.

I am not in Ferguson.
I have no idea what is going on there.

I know for a Fact there are people inside Ferguson that don't know any more than I do.
What I do know is it looks a lot like the 1960's to me. That's the Good News and the Bad.

What was Important in the 1960's?
I know what the folks I talked to thought.

It was important for The People...
Not just Black People but especially Black People to Get The Fuck Involved and Stay That Way.

...Fuck of a lot of work...
That's why it Had To Be Done.

Black people and Poor white people were called Lazy.
People had to get up early and stay up late to get all the Work done.

It had to be Done.
The Kids had to Help!

They had to be Clean.
It was little enough to ask.

The 1960's came after the 1950's.
The 1950's Rocked for some of our people.

The 1950's Sucked for poor and black and some Mexicans.
Just fucking Sucked.

The War opened opportunities.
The War saw White Women and Black Women cashing paychecks with Men.

The Women did not make as much.
It was a fuck of a lot better than nothing.

The 1930's came before the War.
The 1930's leveled the playing field in a Strange way.

The stigma of poverty was everywhere.
So....All these many years later...Where is Ferguson?

Are her people lost in Ignorance and Poverty?
In the 1970's The People Won.

It was made enforceable Law.
And; Those laws were enforced.

All people who were people had Basic Human Rights. yea.
The 1980's were not too bad.

Disco drove some of our Old People to curse us.
Black men did a lot of Sexy Vocals on the Radio.

The 1990's...
What fun.

We were Debt Free and a Respected and Powerful member of the World Community. Yea.
We had poverty. We were working on it. Have you ever....(never mind)

The 2000....
Can we Fast Forward!!

Not my favorite decade.
I know the 1930's were worse.

I Don't remember the 1930's as well!
The 2000's still sting.

We are half way though a new decade.
What will we Remember? More of the same?

Ferguson may be a Famous Name in TextBooks.
"Ferguson happened in 2014" the book might read.
"There was a quiet and forceful movement of The People."

The people were steadfast.
They went to meetings, did the Boring reading and spoke their minds, week in and week out.

Babies cried with new teeth.
Boys kicked the chair in front.
Girls rolled their eyes and begged.
"can we go Home, now."

It was relentless.
People were going to meetings.

They even took names.
"What meetings have you been to?"
was a common and not always welcome greeting.

Some of the children listened.
Some asked questions.

The People learned to speak, Quietly and Clearly.
They found the time to Listen to Others.

The TV's were considered a Family Embarrassment along with Uncle Joe's Dad, the Guy in the Boxer Shorts watching Sutherland in 24.

Hey!
You indulge in Wild SciFi and Fantasy.
Apparently, I do too.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Coyne » Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:43 am UTC

eSOANEM wrote:Two new witnesses of the Michael Brown's murder have come forward corroborating all the other witnesses' stories that, at the time of the shooting he was surrendering. There is another video also part of this in which one man says "He had his fucking hands up."

Link


CNN asks if this is a "game changer", because some of their legal analysts said it was. Michael Brown shooting: Is new video a 'game changer'?

Even one of CNN's own legal analysts, Sunny Hostin, was bemused by this: "Five other witnesses from the community said the exact same thing, and it is befuddling to me how with these two witnesses, suddenly this is a game changer."

But, of course, this is just the usual disgusting bigotry: Five black witnesses against the word of a good old boy white cop? Meh, no credibility there; "everyone" knows all blacks are thugs, gang-bangers, druggies, prostitutes, or welfare parasites. Two white witnesses? Oh, dear, game changer, good old Wilson might get charged.
In all fairness...

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:41 am UTC

Some people look at skin color and decide they know a lot about a person.
Not a majority.

There are some discussions to be had about The Victims.
Everyone is all Up in an UpRoar. As it should be.

Hunt that Man down and bring Justice to the Memory of Michael Brown.
That is ok and that should happen. After the blood lust is spent, then what?

In my personal experience, people are not contributing in thoughtful and meaningful ways.
People 'bitch' a lot.

What most people do for their Civic Contribution is listen to TV, maybe read a newspaper, stay up on BuzzFeed and do FaceBook.
People are busy. People think those people on TV would not be on TV if they did not have authority and know What is What.

Meetings are Boring.

It is a good thing that people are showing up for the Protests.
The protest will fade away.

The memory of this man will fade into the memories of other men.
The Blood Lust will be spent and Nothing Changed.

Unless The People can keep themselves and each other going to those Stupid Meetings.
Yes. It is all so easy, now. Now, it is Exciting. Now, everyman is Justified in Rage.

In six months, the fire will have cooled and the air will have cooled and....
As we all know, those people are not, really, welcome in the Meetings.

After the Media goes on to the Next Big Thing,
The welcome mat will be put away.

Remember the Beat Poet?
The world ends, not with a Roar.
But; With a whimper.


How will The People gain and maintain momentum?
How will The People get what it takes to go to those Stupid Meetings unwelcome, and misunderstood in the Dead of Winter?

Has anyone spoken about the Heavy Responsibility?
Are those people prepared for That?

What sort of Education is common in Ferguson?
For this to come and go like every other Cheap Sensation seems Wrong to me.

Ultimately the Responsibility falls onto the Shoulders of The People.
Will they Shrug like Atlas did? Letting the world fall and break.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Angua » Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:44 am UTC

Coyne wrote:
eSOANEM wrote:Two new witnesses of the Michael Brown's murder have come forward corroborating all the other witnesses' stories that, at the time of the shooting he was surrendering. There is another video also part of this in which one man says "He had his fucking hands up."

Link


CNN asks if this is a "game changer", because some of their legal analysts said it was. Michael Brown shooting: Is new video a 'game changer'?

Even one of CNN's own legal analysts, Sunny Hostin, was bemused by this: "Five other witnesses from the community said the exact same thing, and it is befuddling to me how with these two witnesses, suddenly this is a game changer."

But, of course, this is just the usual disgusting bigotry: Five black witnesses against the word of a good old boy white cop? Meh, no credibility there; "everyone" knows all blacks are thugs, gang-bangers, druggies, prostitutes, or welfare parasites. Two white witnesses? Oh, dear, game changer, good old Wilson might get charged.

I'd like to, really like to, give them the benefit of the doubt that the reason this is a game changer is because the video corroborates their reactions.

However, I somehow doubt that is the reason for the 'game changer'. They didn't even seem that close to shooting. It would be interesting to see in what order they take the witnesses up to the stand...
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby eSOANEM » Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:30 am UTC

Yeah, I don't get the game changer comment. The main reason I reposted it as that there were still a few people here saying that Wilson's story was probably more accurate which, given the guy in the clip saying "he had his fucking hands up" seems unlikely at best.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Angua » Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:52 pm UTC

Police mistake interacial couple for a John and a prostitute.

Apparently a black woman can't kiss a white man in public without being paid.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Coyne » Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:41 pm UTC

Angua wrote:Police mistake interacial couple for a John and a prostitute.

Apparently a black woman can't kiss a white man in public without being paid.


Well, in line with my prior comment, which seems to be the general theme, she wasn't a thug or gang banger and didn't look like a druggie or welfare parasite, so that only left...apparently the default assumption for black women. From the article:
Sadly, this isn't the first time something like this has happened. In 2008, a Galveston, Texas couple sued three police officers who arrested and beat their 12-year-old daughter after mistaking her for a prostitute. And at the 2011 Netroots Nation convention in Minneapolis, Minn., Cheryl Contee of Jack and Jill Politics asked a panel of African-American women to raise their hands if they had ever been mistaken for a prostitute. Everyone’s hands went up.




In other news, all too familiar news, we have Was Saratoga Springs man killed while lunging at officers or while running away?. (The shooting was September 10.) Darrien Hunt, black, was carrying a souvenir samurai sword and, when stopped, "lunged at the officers." (Thought his sword would outmatch their guns, I suppose.) So they shot him. Witnesses reported that he was facing the officers when first shot, but then was shot several times, in the back, while running away...

...and then we have today's story, Lawyer: Autopsy shows Saratoga Springs man shot from behind:
Randall Edwards, an attorney for the Hunt family, said Saturday that an independent autopsy was performed at the family's request. He says it shows that Darrien Hunt was shot "numerous times, all from the rear."


Among other things that amaze me: How often official autopsies in these cases seem to disagree with independent autopsies.
In all fairness...

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Mon Sep 15, 2014 12:43 am UTC

This stuff is getting scary.
People are Watching each other.
That's good. What are they seeing?

Any little thing that makes another person look even a little different is determined to be a Potential Threat.

A woman that moves too fast.
A young man with a Sword lashed to his back....

That is fucking tragic.
His mom is going to play that morning Over and Over and Over.

If she had Strip Searched him.
If she had given him a Ride.
If she had ....done anything except let her 22 year old son out of her sight.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby lutzj » Mon Sep 15, 2014 3:09 pm UTC

Angua wrote:Police mistake interacial couple for a John and a prostitute.

Apparently a black woman can't kiss a white man in public without being paid.


TMZ got audio of the police stop.

Apparently witnesses had reported them for having sex in the car with the door open, and she was detained for refusing to identify herself (stupid, but that's the law in California EDIT: and now I'm hearing that California is not a stop-and-identify state. Was the detainment still legal?) and then handcuffed when she tried to walk away from the police.
Last edited by lutzj on Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:14 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby KrytenKoro » Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:38 pm UTC

Was the refusing to identify before or after they insinuated she was a sex worker?

Because if before, then...it kind of seems the police were duly following a law, and the blame would be on the people who made the law and the judgmental person who called the cops.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Zcorp » Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:52 pm UTC

KrytenKoro wrote:Was the refusing to identify before or after they insinuated she was a sex worker?

Because if before, then...it kind of seems the police were duly following a law, and the blame would be on the people who made the law and the judgmental person who called the cops.

The audio files the police released do not contain the insinuation. However it is split over 4 files for some weird reason with some gaps between them and does not start at the beginning of the encounter (its seems intentionally edited to cast Watts in the worst light possible, while still failing to provide any evidence against her allegations).

So I don't think we can tell yet.
Here is a relevant court case, the first reference also includes the Law in question.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolender_v._Lawson

I seems like this is likely to come down to if they have a justified reason to require identification, or more specifically if a phone call making a claim about lewd behavior is sufficient justification.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Coyne » Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:21 am UTC

eSOANEM wrote:Yeah, I don't get the game changer comment. The main reason I reposted it as that there were still a few people here saying that Wilson's story was probably more accurate which, given the guy in the clip saying "he had his fucking hands up" seems unlikely at best.

Since the presumed goal of the game is to determine if Wilson committed a crime, "game changer" would refer to changing the outcome of that.game. The only reasonable way one could reach that conclusion is if one expects the new witnesses/video would change that outcome: five black witnesses, one outcome; five black witnesses plus two white witnesses/video, another outcome.

Which means that someone believes the outcome is forgone with just the five black witnesses.

Think about that: with five black witnesses, the outcome is given; at least as far as that someone is concerned...the someone who called the new evidence a "game changer". Not only that, but since the new evidence doesn't support Wilson's innocence, it's clear that this someone does not think five black witnesses, alone, are credible enough to convict Wilson.

Five black witnesses: not credible.
In all fairness...

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Chen » Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:40 pm UTC

The fact the witnesses were not from town apparently helps their credibility somewhat too, or so many articles are saying. I suppose it would remove some possibility of bias, but "game changer" still seems pretty sensationalist.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:49 pm UTC

Chen wrote:The fact the witnesses were not from town apparently helps their credibility somewhat too, or so many articles are saying. I suppose it would remove some possibility of bias, but "game changer" still seems pretty sensationalist.


The "news" has been wildly sensationalist for some time now, I'm afraid.

Yes, additional witnesses is important, but the news overstating things is basically par for the course. Frustrating.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Coyne » Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:36 am UTC

Here's an idea: a group called "We Charge Genocide" is working to charge Chicago Police Department with genocide at the UN.

The youth testimonies and CPD data analyzed in our report to the UN reveals a pattern of cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment of young people of color by the CPD. This abuse occurs at extraordinary rates, disproportionately against youth of color, and with impunity. Unfortunately, the CPD refuses to acknowledge or respond to this pervasive violence, and thus we are appealing to the UN for support.




Also, a Newsweek article of interest: Why Cops Get Away With Rape. Looks like some cops are good at finding people who aren't credible.
In all fairness...

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:31 am UTC

Zcorp wrote:
KrytenKoro wrote:Was the refusing to identify before or after they insinuated she was a sex worker?

Because if before, then...it kind of seems the police were duly following a law, and the blame would be on the people who made the law and the judgmental person who called the cops.

The audio files the police released do not contain the insinuation. However it is split over 4 files for some weird reason with some gaps between them and does not start at the beginning of the encounter (its seems intentionally edited to cast Watts in the worst light possible, while still failing to provide any evidence against her allegations).

So I don't think we can tell yet.
Here is a relevant court case, the first reference also includes the Law in question.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolender_v._Lawson

I seems like this is likely to come down to if they have a justified reason to require identification, or more specifically if a phone call making a claim about lewd behavior is sufficient justification.

Is it?
I wonder.

Have people always been so eager to call the Police.
People are frightened and angry.

I drove a long way one day.
I arrived early.

I parked on the street, opened the back of the car and settled down for a nap.
Some one decided I was a big ole' Threat. The Police showed up and woke me up.

They wanted ID and to know why I was doing something as Crazy as Napping.
If I had refused ID or made any other questionable move...well..I don't know.

That guy was gruff and suspicious.
People are afraid of one another.

Those guys are sent out to Do something about scary people.
I am not much more frightening than the woman in the Photo.

At least that is what I think.
Some people are scared of their own shadow.

Then they watch TV.
The guy that called on that woman was, just, Jealous;
Most likely.

I can, sort of, understand it.
Public displays of sexual intimacy, pissed people off.

It's like eating in front of hungry people.
That's not nice. Take it home.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Thesh » Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:08 pm UTC

Police officer shoots unarmed black man for seatbelt violation:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/25/justice/s ... -shooting/

In this case, at least the officer was charged with a felony and faces up to 20 years in prison.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby LaserGuy » Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:19 pm UTC

Surprised this hasn't come up yet...

New York police under investigation after officers tackle visibly pregnant woman to the ground. She claims she was also struck in the stomach with a police baton.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby mousewiz » Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:22 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Surprised this hasn't come up yet...

New York police under investigation after officers tackle visibly pregnant woman to the ground. She claims she was also struck in the stomach with a police baton.

I dunno about this one because the video is absolutely awful. My thoughts, though, are that it looked like the pregnant woman was doing her best to force the police to either tackle her or just let her go (and possibly arrest her later as I imagine they could've found out where she lived through her son). The second lady who got pushed... on the one hand it looked like the officer really leaned into it. But the rolling also looked embellished. That might just be the hockey fan in me, though.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby speising » Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:43 pm UTC

it looks more like she fell while trying to get away from the cop holding her.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:01 am UTC

That woman punched repeatedly for walking by the highway? $1.5m settlement.

The cynic in me is a bit more concerned that since dead people rarely result in settlements...

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:58 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:That woman punched repeatedly for walking by the highway? $1.5m settlement.

The cynic in me is a bit more concerned that since dead people rarely result in settlements...

That was Fast.
Impressive.

no. I did not look at the details.
What's a million here and a million there?

I listened in real life to a woman throw a little rant.
She had done The Math. (or so she said)
She gave some High number.

The US could have made all her citizens millionaires for what she spent in about Ten Years.
What did we get for Trillions and Trillions of dollars?

The most well funded Police Force in The World?
The US Polices there. The US Polices here.

Well Funded.
Poorly Trained?

What do we know about our Police?
Anything?

They are our Employees.
How much should we know about them?
How much should they know about us?

Do we Think we know about them?
Are we Wrong?

Do they Think they know about us?
Are they Wrong?

How would you find out?
They do play pretty close to the chest.

I think we need a meeting!
Why are The Police not talking?

Why are we not having Meetings.
This seems like a bit of a national emergency, too me.

The People are terrified of the Police.
The People are terrified of each other.


Are the Police Jerks?
Almost all of them?

I know some are.
I guess it is fitting.

They are us and we are a high percent Jerks.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
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Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Paul in Saudi » Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:35 pm UTC

Flordells Hill, Missouri is in Saint Louis County. This is the county that had this terrible situation in Ferguson. Anyway, Flordell Hills started it's own police department on 1 October.

On that day, one of the policemen (they have 6)
Wrecked his police car
While high on drugs
He stole from the evidence safe.

Turns out he had a juvenile conviction (called something else) for burglary.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/new-flordell-hills-police-force-off-to-rough-start-as/article_09030df7-6488-587f-b122-0d5ff9df50f6.html

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Coyne » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:05 am UTC

Paul in Saudi wrote:Flordells Hill, Missouri is in Saint Louis County. This is the county that had this terrible situation in Ferguson. Anyway, Flordell Hills started it's own police department on 1 October.

On that day, one of the policemen (they have 6)
Wrecked his police car
While high on drugs
He stole from the evidence safe.

Turns out he had a juvenile conviction (called something else) for burglary.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/new-flordell-hills-police-force-off-to-rough-start-as/article_09030df7-6488-587f-b122-0d5ff9df50f6.html


(The link is paywalled.)

My inquiring mind wants to know how they came to have drugs in the safe before the department even opened? Wouldn't that be, like, illegal possession?
In all fairness...

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Zcorp » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:25 am UTC

Not paywalled, something kinda worse. You have to answer their survey question to get access to the article.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Coyne » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:04 am UTC

Zcorp wrote:Not paywalled, something kinda worse. You have to answer their survey question to get access to the article.

They didn't show me a survey question; not that I saw, anyway. (This time it showed it to me. Must have been some kind of glitch.)
In all fairness...

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Paul in Saudi » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:47 am UTC

I am sorry some people have had trouble with my link. It works for me.

So I went to Google to find an alternative cite. I did not really find one. But the Post-Dispatch is reliable, I am sure it is correct in its reporting.

What I did find was a most alarming or perhaps amusing report on all the 90 or so police departments in Saint Louis County and their merry hijinks. County government in Missouri is simply screwed up all to heck.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/michael-brown-shooting/why-does-city-600-residents-need-14-cops-n197676

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Soteria » Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:16 pm UTC

Completely off-topic, but your confidence in their reporting reminds me of the comments I read on an article about the Aral Sea drying up. They had satellite pictures showing the progression over 10 years, and one person commenting on it asked if we knew whether all the pictures were taken at the same time of year. Someone responded something like,

"Eh, if you're going to read news articles on the internet, you really have to assume that they've covered all their bases. We can take it for granted that NASA knows what it's doing."

What you'er saying is not the same at all of course, but that level of naivete is mind-blowing.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby PolakoVoador » Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:16 pm UTC

Population: 574

Size of town: .09 square miles

Police force: 14, which also provides services to neighboring Velda Village Hills

Cases filed in 2013: 3,250 traffic tickets, 1,085 ordinance violations


Wait, 5.6 average traffic tickets per habitant per year? No, this doesn't sound absurd at all.

Chen
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Chen » Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:25 pm UTC

PolakoVoador wrote:
Population: 574

Size of town: .09 square miles

Police force: 14, which also provides services to neighboring Velda Village Hills

Cases filed in 2013: 3,250 traffic tickets, 1,085 ordinance violations


Wait, 5.6 average traffic tickets per habitant per year? No, this doesn't sound absurd at all.


The article specifically mentions speed cameras in locations that are liable to catch people just passing through the city too.

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Paul in Saudi
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Paul in Saudi » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:12 pm UTC

As I understand it, speeding tickets are seen as a tax on people who do not live in town. Rental car and hotel room taxes work much the same way.

Tyndmyr
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:18 pm UTC

Paul in Saudi wrote:As I understand it, speeding tickets are seen as a tax on people who do not live in town. Rental car and hotel room taxes work much the same way.


Which makes them more palatable locally. But of course, if localities in general start doing this and it becomes common practice, pretty much everyone gets taxed anyway. So, all you get are additional layers of complexity and general unfairness, plus another system to keep up. From a macro perspective, traffic tickets as a tax system are not a particularly desireable outcome.

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addams
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:39 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
Paul in Saudi wrote:As I understand it, speeding tickets are seen as a tax on people who do not live in town. Rental car and hotel room taxes work much the same way.


Which makes them more palatable locally. But of course, if localities in general start doing this and it becomes common practice, pretty much everyone gets taxed anyway. So, all you get are additional layers of complexity and general unfairness, plus another system to keep up. From a macro perspective, traffic tickets as a tax system are not a particularly desireable outcome.

That is So fucked up.

On the micro-level the individual people may have a sense of Pride about the whole thing.
Like a game of Cat and Mouse. Somedays the Mouse outsmarts the Cat.

It Feels Good to mice.
"I have a friend that knows this guy at the Station."
"For half that, we can make that, Go Away."

How cool is it to know a Guy that knows a Guy?
Feels nice. right?

What if you don't know a Guy??
Then you are ground beneath the boot of a culture you should know how to fit into.
Why don't you Know a Guy? Everyone knows a Guy. Don't you? Why not?

Anyone with any sense at all would MOVE!
Far, Far Away.... Where the LollyPop Trees Grow......
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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gmalivuk
GNU Terry Pratchett
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Contact:

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby gmalivuk » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:50 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
Paul in Saudi wrote:As I understand it, speeding tickets are seen as a tax on people who do not live in town. Rental car and hotel room taxes work much the same way.


Which makes them more palatable locally. But of course, if localities in general start doing this and it becomes common practice, pretty much everyone gets taxed anyway. So, all you get are additional layers of complexity and general unfairness, plus another system to keep up. From a macro perspective, traffic tickets as a tax system are not a particularly desireable outcome.
It's akin to states that used to rely heavily on cigarette tax revenue, in that higher taxes dicouraged the unsafe behavior enough that the revenue stream dried up over time. It sets up really perverse incentives whereby cops want people to keep breaking those laws so that they can keep up revenue (otherwise the department might no longer be able to afford to employ that absurd one cop for every 40 residents).
Unless stated otherwise, I do not care whether a statement, by itself, constitutes a persuasive political argument. I care whether it's true.
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If this post has math that doesn't work for you, use TeX the World for Firefox or Chrome

(he/him/his)

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CorruptUser
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:22 pm UTC

Or highway funding via gas taxes causing cars to become more fuel efficient. Enough so that one state now imposes an electric car tax.

speising
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby speising » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:28 pm UTC

or dating websites with time based subscriptions...

Tyndmyr
Posts: 11443
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:33 pm UTC

Yup. Always look at the incentives when designing a system. "who profits" is always a crucial element.

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addams
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:44 pm UTC

Chen wrote:
PolakoVoador wrote:
Population: 574

Size of town: .09 square miles

Police force: 14, which also provides services to neighboring Velda Village Hills

Cases filed in 2013: 3,250 traffic tickets, 1,085 ordinance violations


Wait, 5.6 average traffic tickets per habitant per year? No, this doesn't sound absurd at all.


The article specifically mentions speed cameras in locations that are liable to catch people just passing through the city too.

They do that in a place like Missouri?
What if they had a Thing people wanted to see?

Like an Ocean.
There is a 25 mile stretch of roadway near to me that I drive often.
I was counting cop cars for a while.

Five.
Five cop cars in twenty five miles.
Every time it was five, for a while.

That number has gone down.
I don't know why.

I do know three cop cars in twenty five miles seems Natural as The Night.
I drove it one time without seeing any police cars.

It made me nervous.
"What do they know?"

We are Not understaffed.
Not during the day, on nice days, when the sun is shining.

I had what I thought was an emergency.
I called 911. That was Funny.

My call went to a place 200 miles away.
They said, "We don't wake those guys up, unless it is a Crime in Progress."

I was so confused.
"As soon as it Stopped I called!"

"Sorry." he said, "Is the Crime in Progress?"
"If not, Leave a message. They might call."

I left a message.
They didn't call.

I went to them After 8 am, when they clock in.

They Do like handing out Speeding Tickets.
We have a great many Tourists blowing though.

The tourists support this community.
I wonder if the tourists support Here the way outsiders support There.

That makes sense.
Tourists are out during The Day.

A Police can't harvest that cash at night.
The people that are out at night....

...who wants to mess with Them?
I Know they mess with people At Night!

I was in court when Tammy's BoyFriend had to stand trial for doing the Nasty with Tammy on the way home from the Bar at 2 am.

They are OutThere, Watching.
They can see you.

They can speak to you.
It is no where near an equal relationship.

No. The Police don't hassle me much, anymore.
I'm not surprised by it when it happens, either.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

Zcorp
Posts: 1255
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Zcorp » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:43 pm UTC

DEA sued over identity theft of alleged drug ring woman.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tas ... ow-n219916
http://www.buzzfeed.com/chrishamby/gove ... ine#1ljvwc

Its amazingly sad that the people in government currently are so dumb they feel they can do whatever they want until the public gets outraged by it.

Torture, wire-tapping, identity left...sigh We shouldn't have to tell you not to do stupid things.

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Paul in Saudi
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Paul in Saudi » Sun Oct 12, 2014 3:12 pm UTC

In the interest of fairness, we ought to note the actress who was detained in California recently seems to have played the race card way too soon. Also, the fellow who claimed the police grabbed (and kept) some large sum of money from him has recanted.


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