Police misbehavior thread

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Dauric » Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:06 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:Well if the criminal hit the civilian's cars, shouldn't they just sue the guy who crashed into the cars?


You think the criminal has the money to fix or replace ten cars?
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:44 pm UTC

Dauric wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote:Well if the criminal hit the civilian's cars, shouldn't they just sue the guy who crashed into the cars?


You think the criminal has the money to fix or replace ten cars?


Almost certainly not.

And those people, had police not directed them to do this, would very likely not have been in an accident. The police instructions were definitely costly to them. A reimbursement seems fair.

As an aside, what on earth got stolen that was worth all that? Police chases, in general, seem to be the stuff of action movies, not actually practical in most cases. It would seem sufficient to simply track someone and wait until they stop in the vast majority of instances, rather than engage in forced collisions and the like. Can't drive forever.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Grop » Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:43 pm UTC

In this country I suppose all these car drivers would have their cars insured; their insurance companies would pay them, and be responsible for getting paid from that driver who may happen to be a criminal, or maybe from the insurance for his vehicle.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby jestingrabbit » Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:38 am UTC

Grop wrote:In this country I suppose all these car drivers would have their cars insured; their insurance companies would pay them, and be responsible for getting paid from that driver who may happen to be a criminal, or maybe from the insurance for his vehicle.


Here we have compulsory third party insurance, which the van should have, and that should cover the damage done by it. That's what third party is about, insuring your car against the damage that it does to other people and other property.

The cops should be saying this stuff, or working out how people are going to get their cars fixed. imo the biggest reason people hate the cops is because they never apologise.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Lazar » Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:28 pm UTC

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:28 pm UTC

Wasn't that the one where the guy tried to run over a cop? Oh, that should be on America's Funniest Home Videos. The guy flies out of the car as it rolls over, and a half dozen cops just pop up and beat him. The best part was the older fatter cop wandering up at the end in order to get a few punches in, probably saying "hey, that looks fun kids, save some for an old timer! Woo, I'm still hip!" It was like it was straight out of an anti-police cartoon, it was that ridiculous. Cops should've been heavily penalized, but it's still so funny in a dark way.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Lazar » Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:11 am UTC

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby sardia » Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:08 pm UTC


Report indicates they beat him for being uppity, so this is nothing new. He asserted his rights, and got beat for it. The Jim Crow Age was similar, the noose wasn't for every black man, just for darkies who didn't know their place.
The officer told me to drop my phone (I started recording after he told me to pull over) and then grabbed my shirt collar and started punching me in my stomach.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:20 pm UTC

That's actually a gross oversimplification. Most of the lynchings were about land disputes; poor black farmers who wouldn't sell their land (for much less than it was worth). Oh and about 2/5 of lynching victims were white, IIRC.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby sardia » Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:40 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:That's actually a gross oversimplification. Most of the lynchings were about land disputes; poor black farmers who wouldn't sell their land (for much less than it was worth). Oh and about 2/5 of lynching victims were white, IIRC.

You're purposely being vague so as to deblackify lynching with Jim Crow.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_ ... 77-1917.29
After 1901, as economics shifted and more blacks became renters and sharecroppers in the Delta, with few exceptions, only African Americans were lynched. The frequency increased from 1901 to 1908 after African Americans were disfranchised. "In the twentieth century Delta vigilantism finally became predictably joined to white supremacy."[26]
Conclusions of numerous studies since the mid-20th century have found the following variables affecting the rate of lynchings in the South: "lynchings were more numerous where the African American population was relatively large, the agricultural economy was based predominantly on cotton, the white population was economically stressed, the Democratic Party was stronger, and multiple religious organizations competed for congregants."...
Terror and lynching were believed to be used to enforce both these formal laws and a variety of unwritten rules of conduct meant to assert white domination. In most years from 1889 to 1923, 50 to 100 lynchings occurred annually across the South. They were at a peak in the last decade of the 19th century, but remained high for years.[27]

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:45 pm UTC

OH it was definitely about black, just that the accuser was often just the absolute worst type of thief. The white people murdered were mostly "n-lovers" that tried to end the status quo. Oh my mistake, it was a quarter white, but Chinese people didn't get counted in the numbers. Not exactly the best period in American history...

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Lazar » Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:38 pm UTC

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Lazar » Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:53 am UTC

A cop hits a compliant motorcyclist with his car, then waves his gun at the man (gangsta-style) and kicks him in the chest, breaking his collarbone. Here, see for yourself.

And then he said this:

Edwards acknowledged in his testimony that Wilkens had already begun to comply with his repeated commands to get on the ground when Edwards landed a swift kick to the motorcyclist’s upper chest. Edwards said he could not have stopped the kick because he “already had the muscles fired” in his right leg.

A jury didn't believe him, and they awarded $180,000 to his victim. Despite this, he's received no punishment – he got a promotion instead. His employers expressed their displeasure with the judicial process: "The Oregon State Police is disappointed with the outcome and feels the actions of our Troopers clearly did not violate established procedures or tactics. In situations like these officers have milliseconds to make what may be life or death decisions and those officers should be shielded from the liability of civil damages." Yes, I do believe that those are your established procedures and tactics – and that cops are one of the most paranoid and easily frightened groups of people in the United States.

This is thuggery and psychopathy at an organizational level. American police culture is absolutely fucked from top to bottom.
Last edited by Lazar on Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:54 pm UTC, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Lazar » Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:39 am UTC

And it gets better! When this same officer was accused by one of his colleagues of conducting an illegal search in 2013, the Oregon State Police had the accuser arrested and fabricated evidence against him – by their own admission, even. This behavior is sadly consistent with numerous other campaigns of retaliation that have been carried out by American police against good cops.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Coyne » Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:48 am UTC

Lazar wrote:And it gets better! When this same officer was accused by one of his colleagues of conducting an illegal search in 2013, the Oregon State Police had the accuser arrested and fabricated evidence against him – by their own admission, even. This behavior is sadly consistent with numerous other campaigns of retaliation that have been carried out by American police against good cops.

Long live Serpico.

The Judge's reasoning irritated me. At the end, it kind of gets down to, "Sorry, guys, I used every possible specious reasoning I could, but I just couldn't find an excuse bullshit enough to allow dismissal of claim six. (And I would have found an excuse to dismiss claim two, but you guys didn't ask..hint, hint...)

Example: He has no First Amendment right in his reports up the chain of command, but his report to the union attorney establishes he doesn't have a First Amendment right outside the chain of command, either. Basically, he didn't go to the press (which would have justified a dismissal)...so tough luck, no free speech.

_________________

Georgia cop indicted for fatal shooting of an unarmed, naked Air Force vet

Hill, the victim, was bipolar and evidently having an episode. The title pretty much says it all. Officer Olsen shot him because he, "...feared for his life, and that Hill was likely on PCP or a similar drug."

Where have we heard that one before?

The article notes that, "In Georgia, law enforcement officers under grand jury investigation are allowed to attend the jurors’ meeting as well as speak to an expert panel without fear of cross-examination or rebuttal." Even with that, ...

Well, I guess he must not have appeared contrite enough or something, because he was indicted on, "...two felony murder counts, one aggravated assault count, one making a false statement count, and two violation of oath by a public officer counts." (I don't understand the part about two felony murder counts: for one death? Hmmm...)

But it probably won't end with conviction. The article also notes that there have been 170 police shootings in Georgia since 2010, and only one officer was indicted...and that was subsequently dismissed.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Zohar » Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:38 pm UTC

If cops are so worried about their lives all the time, how come they're not constantly wearing kevlar?
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby ijuin » Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:26 pm UTC

At the least, fabricating evidence for malicious purposes is prima facia a legal offense unto itself.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby sardia » Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:07 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:If cops are so worried about their lives all the time, how come they're not constantly wearing kevlar?

Actually, they do.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:05 pm UTC

Half of cops don't wear the vest.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:48 pm UTC

In fairness, not every cop freaks out and shoots everyone, so it might simply be that some cops have a more rational risk analysis.

No doubt there's a range of attitudes towards risk even among police.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Coyne » Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:58 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:In fairness, not every cop freaks out and shoots everyone, so it might simply be that some cops have a more rational risk analysis.

No doubt there's a range of attitudes towards risk even among police.


I don't think anyone reasonable doubts that.

But, "I feared for my life," has become the trump-excuse of the police (and others, I'll admit, but this thread is about the police). Officers using it even seem to say it exactly the same way, as if it were a mantra. (Maybe that's media filtering, I don't know.)

For example, Jason Van Dyke, the officer who continued firing at Laquan McDonald after he had fallen. His attorney, Daniel Herbert, repeatedly told CNN that Van Dyke is innocent because he "feared for his life." But, honestly, how much should you fear someone who has been shot and is lying on the ground in a fetal position?

So it may be legitimate in some cases, but in others it is being used as a self-defense claim, possibly unjustified.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:05 pm UTC

There's been something of a trend to skip over the reasonability requirements of fearing for one's life. In focusing on the fear over the reason, well...it lets you make an emotional appeal rather than a logical one. Real handy when looking at the facts logically results in some pretty horrible conclusions.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Angua » Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:19 pm UTC

Coyne wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:In fairness, not every cop freaks out and shoots everyone, so it might simply be that some cops have a more rational risk analysis.

No doubt there's a range of attitudes towards risk even among police.


I don't think anyone reasonable doubts that.

But, "I feared for my life," has become the trump-excuse of the police (and others, I'll admit, but this thread is about the police). Officers using it even seem to say it exactly the same way, as if it were a mantra. (Maybe that's media filtering, I don't know.)

For example, Jason Van Dyke, the officer who continued firing at Laquan McDonald after he had fallen. His attorney, Daniel Herbert, repeatedly told CNN that Van Dyke is innocent because he "feared for his life." But, honestly, how much should you fear someone who has been shot and is lying on the ground in a fetal position?

So it may be legitimate in some cases, but in others it is being used as a self-defense claim, possibly unjustified.

Especially in this case where the video shows the cop hitting a cyclist, then getting out and kicking him. Must have been a pretty terrifying cyclist.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Coyne » Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:46 am UTC

Angua wrote:Especially in this case where the video shows the cop hitting a cyclist, then getting out and kicking him. Must have been a pretty terrifying cyclist.

Exactly. We shouldn't get distracted by whether officers do or don't wear vests. It didn't matter in the case of the cyclist, and I don't think it mattered in the Laquan McDonald case.

There are plenty of cases where officers do have legitimate reason to fear an attack. When they trivialize, "I feared for my life": at worst, that's a mere salve for wrongdoing; at best, the little boy who cried wolf (as in why should I believe any officer who says that from now on?).
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Zohar » Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:44 pm UTC

Coyne wrote:Exactly. We shouldn't get distracted by whether officers do or don't wear vests. It didn't matter in the case of the cyclist, and I don't think it mattered in the Laquan McDonald case.

Well my point wasn't to detract from the issue or to talk about how a vest was protecting him - my point was how much can he claim to actually fear for his life, if he doesn't use the reasonable precautions available to him? I think it proves that he wasn't, in fact, fearful.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Mutex » Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:05 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:
Coyne wrote:Exactly. We shouldn't get distracted by whether officers do or don't wear vests. It didn't matter in the case of the cyclist, and I don't think it mattered in the Laquan McDonald case.

Well my point wasn't to detract from the issue or to talk about how a vest was protecting him - my point was how much can he claim to actually fear for his life, if he doesn't use the reasonable precautions available to him? I think it proves that he wasn't, in fact, fearful.

If you're talking about the Georgia cop, I didn't see anything in the article that said he wasn't wearing kevlar. Not that he'd need it against a naked, unarmed man anyway.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby K-R » Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:29 am UTC

Georgia cop fired for knowing and obeying the law

Park was called to the scene of a minor suffering alcohol poisoning. His supervisor told him to arrest the student, but Park was aware of one of Georgia’s recent evidence-based laws.

See, since 2014, Georgia lawmakers have decided that it is more important to make sure that underage drinkers receive medical care than punishment. So, under the law, “[a]ny person who in good faith seeks medical assistance for someone who is experiencing an alcohol related overdose shall not be arrested, charged, or prosecuted.”

You also can’t arrest the person suffering the overdose . . .

Williamson not only fired Park, but did so while explicitly acknowledging that (a) Park had been right about the law, and (b) Park’s termination was to prevent public embarrassment to Williamson and his department for being wrong about it.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Lazar » Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:13 am UTC

No charges will be filed against the eight LAPD officers who fired 103 rounds at two innocent women in a residential neighborhood during the Dorner manhunt in 2013. Because they mistook two Hispanic women for one black man, they mistook the women's truck for one of a different make, model and color, and they mistook the sound of a newspaper hitting the ground for a gunshot – and according to the DA, these were all perfectly excusable mistakes based on the officers' reasonably held beliefs. I mean, what were they supposed to do – not unload their magazines at anything that moved?

By pure coincidence, Torrance police also shot an innocent man during that manhunt.
Last edited by Lazar on Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:21 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Angua » Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:21 am UTC

It's sad that ignorance of the law is no excuse, but alleged ignorance of the facts while carrying out that law is.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby sardia » Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:21 pm UTC

Angua wrote:It's sad that ignorance of the law is no excuse, but alleged ignorance of the facts while carrying out that law is.

You know that's not why they fired him. Insubordination is a career killer term. It's all too common across all businesses. The bad part is where it apparently trumps justice.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Angua » Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:46 pm UTC

sardia wrote:
Angua wrote:It's sad that ignorance of the law is no excuse, but alleged ignorance of the facts while carrying out that law is.

You know that's not why they fired him. Insubordination is a career killer term. It's all too common across all businesses. The bad part is where it apparently trumps justice.

I'm talking about the post directly above mine? You know - the one with no charges being filed against cops that mistook hispanic women for a black man, got the wrong car make and mistook a newspaper falling as the sound of a gun shot.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby sardia » Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:29 pm UTC

OK that makes more sense.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016 ... ago-police
Chicago cops have 80% failure rate on their recording equipment for various reasons, including intentional sabotage by wayward cops.
They need to do what Oak land did with their cops. Presume cops are guilty until proven innocent in any case that involves recording equipment gone bad.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:32 pm UTC

I suspect if I were accused of a crime, and upon investigation, my devices had happened to fail in a way that deleted any evidence about me, this would definitely be used as an indicator of guilt.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Chen » Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:12 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:I suspect if I were accused of a crime, and upon investigation, my devices had happened to fail in a way that deleted any evidence about me, this would definitely be used as an indicator of guilt.


This doesn't appear to be exactly the same. The devices appear to have been destroyed pre-emptively. So it's not a good indicator of guilt in any particular case, but they definitely show there's a massive problem with the way body cams/mics are being implemented and verified. Frankly this type of thing alone should result in immediate firing regardless of any other wrong-doing. Granted proving someone actually intentionally destroyed something is not super easy, though apparently it can be done (as evidenced by that article mentioning the techs concluding it was intentional sabotage).

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Lazar » Sat Jan 30, 2016 12:32 am UTC

An update to one of my earlier posts: Andrew Thomas, who was shot in the neck by a California police officer as he tried to climb out of a car wreck, has died of his injuries.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Lazar » Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:58 am UTC

Here's another story I just found: in 2013 a Milwaukee sheriff's deputy ran a stop sign and slammed into a woman's car, causing her severe neck injuries. The deputy lied about his actions, and the woman was immediately arrested for drunk driving – a false charge which prosecutors finally dismissed 10 months later.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Coyne » Sat Jan 30, 2016 3:46 pm UTC

Lazar wrote:An update to one of my earlier posts: Andrew Thomas, who was shot in the neck by a California police officer as he tried to climb out of a car wreck, has died of his injuries.


Ramsey said one of the reasons Feaster could not be charged was because Thomas had not died.


There's always another excuse. What do you suppose it will be now that Thomas died? (Best bet: "Feaster feared for his life.")
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Lazar » Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:37 pm UTC

And in Soviet America, a Chicago cop is suing the man he shot and killed for causing him emotional distress. This cop also shot and killed an innocent bystander during the same incident.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:14 am UTC

Can I sue the person suing me for emotional damages from having to go to court?

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby sardia » Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:11 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Can I sue the person suing me for emotional damages from having to go to court?

How much money you got? If you can outspend the local police union, you're heavily favored.


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