Police misbehavior thread

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Zohar » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:48 pm UTC

idonno wrote:You left out blaming themselves for suspending the kid for three days.

I count their own security officer as "themselves" in this case. Yeah everyone here is awful except for the kid and his mom.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby idonno » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:41 am UTC

Yeah but the security officer is not part of the administration. The administration can't just suspend a kid and then blame the teacher for not following the rules. It is literally their job to correct the teacher and the fact that they suspended the kid instead means that they aren't fulfilling their responsibility to make sure teachers know and follow the rules. Since they aren't doing that, it is their fault that teachers aren't following the rules.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby elasto » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:47 am UTC

idonno wrote:The administration can't just suspend a kid and then blame the teacher for not following the rules. It is literally their job to correct the teacher and the fact that they suspended the kid instead means that they aren't fulfilling their responsibility to make sure teachers know and follow the rules.

I imagine their argument would be: The teacher did the wrong thing (ordering a student to stand) so we will no longer employ them, but the pupil also did the wrong thing (refusing a teacher's order) so got suspended.

Schools just aren't going to give lessons in civil disobedience - and, honestly, classrooms would probably devolve into anarchy even more so than now if they didn't have zero tolerance for it. The correct way for the pupil to object would have been through administrative channels.

(Of course, being arrested is a total overreaction, especially given his age, and especially without having invoked other options like involving the parents.)

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Diemo » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:51 am UTC

honestly, classrooms would probably devolve into anarchy even more so than now if they didn't have zero tolerance for it.


What a crock of shit. The rest of the world manages just fine without any zero tolerance policies.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby elasto » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:04 am UTC

For civil disobedience during lessons? Sorry, most schools won't tolerate repeated refusal to follow a teacher's instructions and nor should they.

Most sane schools won't call the police over it, but the pupil will definitely get anything from detention to suspension for it.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Angua » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:32 am UTC

What if that teacher was repeatedly telling them to hit themselves on the head with a book?

Like, if the kid is refusing to follow instructions, you send them to the headteacher. Who then should look at what it was the kid was refusing to do and make sure a proportional response is given. If the school is saying this was wrong to be asked of the kid, then they shouldn't have let the punishment go forwards in the first place.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby elasto » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:56 am UTC

Yeah, but the teacher did send them to the headteacher. Apparently the pupil escalated things from there, the details of which we are not informed.

The suspension was probably related to these further acts, not the initial act of refusal.

(Comparing the teacher asking a pupil to stand up - something teachers do every day of the week in every school - with the teacher committing a criminal offence isn't a reasonable comparison...)

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby The Great Hippo » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:48 am UTC

elasto wrote:I imagine their argument would be: The teacher did the wrong thing (ordering a student to stand) so we will no longer employ them, but the pupil also did the wrong thing (refusing a teacher's order) so got suspended.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the reason the teacher won't be employed anymore has more to do with them effectively telling an 11 year old black kid that he ought to go back to Africa.
elasto wrote:For civil disobedience during lessons? Sorry, most schools won't tolerate repeated refusal to follow a teacher's instructions and nor should they.

Most sane schools won't call the police over it, but the pupil will definitely get anything from detention to suspension for it.
A public school is not a military institution. Your teacher is not your commanding officer.

Sane schools do not (and should not) punish children for refusing orders that clearly shouldn't be orders.
elasto wrote:(Comparing the teacher asking a pupil to stand up - something teachers do every day of the week in every school - with the teacher committing a criminal offence isn't a reasonable comparison...)
You're right. A much more reasonable comparison would be ordering every student to recite an oath where they reject Jesus Christ -- forever. And if any of the Christian kids refuse? Suspend 'em.

What? Teachers tell students to say stuff all the time. If any of them has a problem with it, they should just say the words and file a grievance later.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Chen » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:10 pm UTC

He wasnt suspended for not standing and saying the pledge. It was for how he reacted after that. From: https://www.baynews9.com/fl/tampa/news/ ... allegiance

According to the arrest affidavit, the student was arrested by the school resource officer because he refused to follow multiple commands, repeatedly called school leaders racist and was disruptive. They said he threatened to get the school resource officer and principal fired and to beat the teacher.


It should never have gotten to that due to the teacher being wrong but it escalated afterwards. I agree with what elasto is saying here, the student’s refusal to not say the pledge or stand for it is fine. What he did afterwards is not.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby The Great Hippo » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:19 pm UTC

Chen wrote:It should never have gotten to that due to the teacher being wrong but it escalated afterwards. I agree with what elasto is saying here, the student’s refusal to not say the pledge or stand for it is fine. What he did afterwards is not.
elasto wrote:I imagine their argument would be: The teacher did the wrong thing (ordering a student to stand) so we will no longer employ them, but the pupil also did the wrong thing (refusing a teacher's order) so got suspended.

Schools just aren't going to give lessons in civil disobedience - and, honestly, classrooms would probably devolve into anarchy even more so than now if they didn't have zero tolerance for it. The correct way for the pupil to object would have been through administrative channels.
I agree that if the student did some fucked up shit other than refuse to stand for the pledge, then that could warrant punishment; however, that wasn't what elasto was saying (and it wasn't what I was responding to).

elasto was saying that a student should be punished for disobeying a teacher's order even when the order is unfair, irrational, or immoral.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby elasto » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:40 pm UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:Yeah, I'm pretty sure the reason the teacher won't be employed anymore has more to do with them effectively telling an 11 year old black kid that he ought to go back to Africa.

Clearly. But the reason the pupil and teacher came to blows to begin with was because the teacher asked the pupil to stand during the pledge and the teacher had no right to do so.

Sane schools do not (and should not) punish children for refusing orders that clearly shouldn't be orders.

I could be reading the story wrong, but I don't see it saying that in the body of the story, only in the headline (never trust a headline...)

The child wasn't punished for refusing to stand, he was punished for "threatening the teacher" and "refusing to follow multiple commands from a school resource officer" (which were most likely nothing to do with standing during the pledge). It's possible the student refused to leave the classroom, for example, which, I'm sorry, cannot go without punishment.

It's possible for more than one party to be at fault, and, if that's the case, more than one party can be punished for it. You can be in the right, as this student was, and still act the wrong way thereafter.

You're right. A much more reasonable comparison would be ordering every student to recite an oath where they reject Jesus Christ -- forever. And if any of the Christian kids refuse? Suspend 'em.

As I say, I could be reading the story wrong but I don't think they were suspended for refusing to stand.

What? Teachers tell students to say stuff all the time. If any of them has a problem with it, they should just say the words and file a grievance later.


In your hypothetical, the student should have refused to recite the oath, and if the school had suspended them for that they should have gone home and hired a lawyer. The big bucks would be rolling in very soon.

In this situation, the student could have done something very similar: Rather than issue threats of violence they could have met with the head-teacher to discuss the racist comments, and, if nothing satisfactory turned out, again, look for legal recourse.

elasto was saying that a student should be punished for disobeying a teacher's order even when the order is unfair, irrational, or immoral.

Depends on how the student disobeys it, and it depends on how unfair or irrational the order is (let's leave 'immoral' out of it, because that usually strays into the teacher having committed a crime).

A classroom might have 30-50 students in it. If every time a teacher gives an order some student decides that, in their opinion, the order is too unfair or irrational to obey and can just refuse without consequence no learning would get achieved at all.

You have to balance the, yes, very real right of a student to refuse an order with the right of all the other students to be taught. Disrupting a lesson to make a point cannot in general be consequence free.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Angua » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:52 pm UTC

You do realise this is an 11 year old kid? If the school is going to punish them for refusing (bad) orders from a teacher who was being racist towards them, they are not going to calmly go home and hire a lawyer.

If the triggering event is a teacher acting poorly, then I really don't see how the child should be treated at fault.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby elasto » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:03 pm UTC

You do realise this is an 11 year old kid? If the school is going to punish them for refusing (bad) orders from a teacher who was being racist towards them, they are not going to calmly go home and hire a lawyer.

Agreed, but that strays into a different area which is how American schools escalate by involving the law. UK schools would instead try get the parents involved and have a calm discussion between the headteacher, the pupil and the parents.

It's the parents who might then threaten with a lawyer as soon as they found out the teacher had been racist (in this case) or as soon as they found out the school was ordering kids to pledge allegiance to Satan (in TGH's hypothetical).

If the triggering event is a teacher acting poorly, then I really don't see how the child should be treated at fault.

I agree, but, honestly, teachers act poorly all the time. Surely you must recall teachers being jerks when you were young and my kids certainly complain about their teachers being jerks. If we assert the right of kids to disrupt lessons any time a teacher, in the opinion of the pupils, behaves without perfect professionalism, then that way anarchy lies.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Angua » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:09 pm UTC

Um, how is this discussion not about how American schools escalate?????
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby elasto » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:15 pm UTC

Angua wrote:Um, how is this discussion not about how American schools escalate?????

We aren't discussing that in that we all here agree the school escalated inappropriately. IMO there is no circumstance other than the pupil literally wielding a deadly weapon that requires involving the law. Any other situation - including the pupil refusing to leave the classroom - should be resolved by, at most, calling in the parents.

What triggered this discussion was my comment of "I imagine their argument would be: The teacher did the wrong thing, so we will no longer employ them, but the pupil also did the wrong thing, so got suspended."

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Angua » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:21 pm UTC

Still interlinked with a discussion on when and how it is appropriate to do so. You can't separate the two ideas. If the teacher is acting inappropriately, and the child is reacting to that, then this discussion very much involves how American schools escalate the situation.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby elasto » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:29 pm UTC

Agreed, American schools escalate way too hard, way too fast, just like American law enforcement does.

Still, that doesn't excuse this child's behaviour, if indeed he did make physical threats. 'But he did the bad thing first!' doesn't wash no matter what the age.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby The Great Hippo » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:32 pm UTC

elasto wrote:Depends on how the student disobeys it, and it depends on how unfair or irrational the order is (let's leave 'immoral' out of it, because that usually strays into the teacher having committed a crime).

A classroom might have 30-50 students in it. If every time a teacher gives an order some student decides that, in their opinion, the order is too unfair or irrational to obey and can just refuse without consequence no learning would get achieved at all.

You have to balance the, yes, very real right of a student to refuse an order with the right of all the other students to be taught. Disrupting a lesson to make a point cannot in general be consequence free.
You're being weirdly obtuse about this. If a student refuses to listen to a teacher, they're punished. But if the student claims the teacher is issuing bad orders, other adults can weigh in -- and if they realize the student is right? Then the student isn't punished.

The problem you're talking about doesn't actually exist. Just because we don't punish every act of disobedience doesn't mean we now can't punish any act of disobedience.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby elasto » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:48 pm UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:You're being weirdly obtuse about this. If a student refuses to listen to a teacher, they're punished. But if the student claims the teacher is issuing bad orders, other adults can weigh in -- and if they realize the student is right? Then the student isn't punished.

But that's exactly how I'm arguing it should happen! We are in agreement I think? The problem is that's not how the student behaved here!

Remember, the student didn't simply refuse to stand, he refused to obey all instructions given from there on out, even by other adults, and made physical threats. I'm sure that's what the school would say the suspension is for, and I don't think that's an unreasonable rule, even if the school behaved unreasonably in other ways.

I'm also arguing that, yes, of course a student has the right to call in other adults if they think a teacher is issuing bad orders, but, pragmatically, that cannot be something they invoke without cost. Imagine if students ten times a lesson halt everything and call for the principle to rule if a teacher is issuing bad orders?

Most of the time the way the kid should approach it is to complain to another adult after the lesson, and certainly that could have been done here.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Angua » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:54 pm UTC

elasto wrote:'But he did the bad thing first!' doesn't wash no matter what the age.
I mean, this is the whole argument around self defense.

Again, 11 year old child. They should not be punished for getting angry at a teacher who was being racist at them (which is threatening behaviour). They were frustrated, yes, but non-violent. 11 year olds get angry (and this was justifiably so). This is not a reason for them to be punished carte blanche.

You're expecting unreasonable behaviour from a child, and excusing an unreasonable response from the school.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby The Great Hippo » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:24 pm UTC

elasto wrote:But that's exactly how I'm arguing it should happen! We are in agreement I think? The problem is that's not how the student behaved here!

Remember, the student didn't simply refuse to stand, he refused to obey all instructions given from there on out, even by other adults, and made physical threats. I'm sure that's what the school would say the suspension is for, and I don't think that's an unreasonable rule, even if the school behaved unreasonably in other ways.

I'm also arguing that, yes, of course a student has the right to call in other adults if they think a teacher is issuing bad orders, but, pragmatically, that cannot be something they invoke without cost. Imagine if students ten times a lesson halt everything and call for the principle to rule if a teacher is issuing bad orders?
So, I work in a major industry that has a thing called "Stop Work Authority". What it means is that any employee (and I do mean any employee) who believes that a job is unsafe for any reason (and I do mean any reason) has the authority to demand all work on that job stops immediately. Once this happens, there's a whole review process that goes up the chain of command -- all the way to the company's CEO. Until you reach that point, the employee has the right to continue insisting the job is unsafe and cannot be performed (regardless of whatever mitigating measures are taken by each supervisor along the chain).

What this means: The janitor we hired yesterday to clean toilets can legally bring a five billion dollar project to a grinding halt on account of his solemn belief that it's unsafe to operate cranes during the leap year.

And yet, somehow -- as if by magic! -- that five billion dollar project? Gets done. Safely. In theory, all it would take is one jackass who's exploiting the system to avoid work to ruin everything -- but somehow, everything keeps not getting ruined.

Here's what I'm getting at: The problem you're addressing doesn't actually exist. People are not robots, teachers are not idiots, and your hypothetical student wouldn't get past the third attempt (nevermind ten) before the principal rolled her eyes and told him to cut it the fuck out or face suspension.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby arbiteroftruth » Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:59 pm UTC

How many 11-year-olds does your company employ?

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:09 pm UTC

arbiteroftruth wrote:How many 11-year-olds does your company employ?


Irrelevant. The point is that even with obnoxious hormone-enraged brats, people are still capable of common sense and there are relatively reasonable solutions to situations such as "kid refuses to say pledge" that don't escalate into a criminal record.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby ucim » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:40 pm UTC

elasto wrote:...or as soon as they found out the school was ordering kids to pledge allegiance to Satan (in TGH's hypothetical).
Not to pick a nit but you do realize that "rejecting Jesus Christ" is not at all the same as "pledging allegiance to Satan", don't you? This is exactly how things escalate, and we're supposed to be thinking grownups here, not eleven-year-old children. If thinking grownups can't avoid polarizing hyperbole, how can we expect it of a child, especially one who is (allegedly) under racist attack?

elasto wrote:Agreed, American schools escalate way too hard, way too fast, just like American law enforcement does.
Reread the above.

The Great Hippo wrote: In theory, all it would take is one jackass who's exploiting the system to avoid work to ruin everything -- but somehow, everything keeps not getting ruined.
*koff* Trump *koff*. Yes, it usually works, because usually people are on the same side - they want to get {things} done. This is true in the classroom too - kids actually want to learn, and teachers want to teach. When that's not the case, the problem is bigger than standing for the pledge, and the solution is way different.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby idonno » Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:11 pm UTC

elasto wrote:Yeah, but the teacher did send them to the headteacher. Apparently the pupil escalated things from there, the details of which we are not informed.

I somehow doubt that the student escalated things because whatever member of the administration they were sent to took their side.

elasto wrote:For civil disobedience during lessons? Sorry, most schools won't tolerate repeated refusal to follow a teacher's instructions and nor should they.

If they don't like how an 11 year old responds to protect his rights when an authority figure is blatantly trying to violate them, they better damn well be willing to teach him how to protect his rights in a more appropriate manner and no rolling over and letting them be violated is not the right solution. If they refuse to teach kids a more proper response that doesn't involve letting his rights be violated, they are responsible for the fact that his response is improper.

elasto wrote:Most of the time the way the kid should approach it is to complain to another adult after the lesson, and certainly that could have been done here.

Bullshit! The teacher was demanding an action from the kid that the kid had every right to refuse. He either has to comply with the demand or disrupt the class. He is under NO obligation to comply with the command and therefore it is absolutely NOT his responsibility to avoid disrupting the class and wait until it is over to complain to another adult.

In your mind, what level of "wrong" does the student have to perceive the action as before they don't have to comply and wait to complain later? What if the kid were Jewish or Muslim and the teacher demanded they eat pork? He thought there was something wrong with performing an act that he was not obliged to perform and refused to do it and the only one in the wrong with that was the teacher.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:38 am UTC

elasto wrote:(Comparing the teacher asking a pupil to stand up - something teachers do every day of the week in every school - with the teacher committing a criminal offence isn't a reasonable comparison...)


Is it a criminal act to violate a Supreme Court ruling?

If it is, then it's a criminal offense.

Is it a criminal act to be disruptive when being the victim of a criminal act?

Remember, the student didn't simply refuse to stand, he refused to obey all instructions given from there on out, even by other adults, and made physical threats.
I'd argue that refusing all instruction after being told by a teacher to "Go back to Africa" is a milquetoast response. A desk to the face would be acceptable.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby The Great Hippo » Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:30 am UTC

arbiteroftruth wrote:How many 11-year-olds does your company employ?
I worked with a man who refused to *ever* drain a compressor's suction bottle, because there was a three foot wide scaffold platform high above it -- and, according to him, this meant it was a confined space (which typically requires a fire extinguisher, a fire watcher, and SCBA gear to enter). Since none of these things could be made available *every* day when he decided it was time to go out, he never drained that bottle on his shift. Coincidentally, this meant his walk around was half as long (because the bottle is on the far side of the unit).

Oh, and by the way: Do you know what happens when you don't drain a compressor bottle (and liquid gets into a compressor)?

The compressor explodes.

I'd take a random 11-year-old over him any day.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:35 am UTC

How the hell does that guy still have the job with you?

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby The Great Hippo » Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:36 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:How the hell does that guy still have the job with you?
He retired about two years ago.

Pretty much everyone was super, super happy to see him go.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:38 am UTC

Why wasn't he canned before then? I can't imagine such a twat would have some super-rare skillset that simply couldn't be replaced.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby The Great Hippo » Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:45 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Why wasn't he canned before then? I can't imagine such a twat would have some super-rare skillset that simply couldn't be replaced.
Because the setting I work in has a strong union, has strong protections for workers, and -- more importantly -- none of us were going to be the guy who got this guy fired. Especially not since we knew he'd be retiring soon, anyway.

Industrial settings are weird. However, this is probably not the place for me to regale people with the challenges that environment presents.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:08 am UTC

Just hang a "not normal" tag on him and be done with it.

(Joke stolen from an oil rig worker I knew, and I'm assuming that those tags apply in your setting enough for the joke to work here too).
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Coyne » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:00 am UTC

No-knock warrant. Two subjects dead. Four police officers shot. Warrant based on purchase of heroin at the address. Reported use of handguns by the subjects.

No body cameras used at the scene, even though department has some. Footage from neighbor's camera confiscated, unavailable.

Some heroin and marijuana found at the scene, but only recreational amounts, no sale weight. Subjects had only shotguns and rifles, despite officer statements mentioning at least two handguns. Officer who attested to warrant not present when heroin was acquired, told to pick it up from another officer's car center console,...but he attested to witnessing sale. Confidential informant who purchased heroin seems not to be able to be found despite many being interviewed during investigation, may not exist. Investigation seems to have been started after subject's mother reported drug use at raided house, was there ever more? Subject "dirtbags'" combined history shows greatest prior crime a misdemeanor bad check charge.

Frankly, story appears to be disintegrating minute by minute.

Fatal Houston PD Drug Raid Apparently Predicated On Drugs A Cop Had Stashed In His Car

No-knock warrants are bad enough, risky to both subjects and officers. But when a no-knock disintegrates into a mess like this...
In all fairness...

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby sardia » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:20 am UTC

This is a sad that this is even plausible, but if there was ever a need for the second amendment, it's shooting dirty cops. Those white terrorists scared the cops into passiveness with overwhelming firepower (several rifles) out West. It might work here.

Alternatively, take away guns from the cops. They don't deserve it. They can call swat like everyone else.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby The Great Hippo » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:49 am UTC

Coyne wrote:No-knock warrant. Two subjects dead. Four police officers shot. Warrant based on purchase of heroin at the address. Reported use of handguns by the subjects.
At this point, I'd be willing to bet money that the cops shot themselves.

Also:
Coyne wrote:Subjects had only shotguns and rifles, despite officer statements mentioning at least two handguns.
Notably, the subjects owned these weapons legally. You'd think police might check to see if the people they're delivering a no knock warrant on actually have legally owned firearms which they might use to defend themselves from a home invasion.

Regardless, they died on account of having recreational amounts of heroin and marijuana on the premises. That's the law they broke. That's why they're dead.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Coyne » Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:41 pm UTC

From this affidavit (PDF) it appears the heroin was actually purchased from a place on Napoleon Street which is five miles from the raided Harding Street address.

Addendum: It occurs to me to wonder whether sales are still occurring at the Napoleon Street address. Or did they raid that as well, after waving the same two bags of heroin in front of the judge?
In all fairness...

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby ObsessoMom » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:22 pm UTC

The Supreme Court Just Struck a Huge, Unanimous Blow Against Policing for Profit

The Supreme Court struck an extraordinary blow for criminal justice reform on Wednesday, placing real limitations on policing for profit across the country. Its unanimous decision for the first time prohibits all 50 states from imposing excessive fines, including the seizure of property, on people accused or convicted of a crime. Rarely does the court hand down a ruling of such constitutional magnitude—and seldom do all nine justices agree to restrict the power that police and prosecutors exert over individuals. The landmark decision represents a broad agreement on the Supreme Court that law enforcement’s legalized theft has gone too far.

Wednesday’s ruling in Timbs v. Indiana, authored by Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, is sharp and concise. It revolves around a single question of extraordinary importance. The Eighth Amendment guarantees that no “excessive fines” may be “imposed,” an ancient right enshrined in the Magna Carta and enthusiastically adopted by the Framers. But the Bill of Rights originally applied only to the federal government, not the states. After the Civil War, the 14th Amendment was ratified to apply these rights to the states, which had engaged in grotesque civil rights violations to perpetuate slavery. The Supreme Court, however, slowly applied (or “incorporated”) these rights against the states one by one, not all at once. And before Timbs, it had never incorporated the Excessive Fines Clause—allowing states to exploit their residents for huge sums of cash and property.

They did so through civil asset forfeiture, a process that we would call theft in any other context. Here’s how it works: Prosecutors accuse an individual of a crime, then seize assets that have some tenuous connection to the alleged offense. The individual need not be convicted or even charged with an actual crime, and her assets are seized through a civil proceeding, which lacks the due process safeguards of a criminal trial. Law enforcement can seize money or property, including one’s home, business, or vehicle. It gets to keep the profits, creating a perverse incentive that encourages police abuses. Because the standards are so loose, people with little to no involvement in criminal activity often get caught up in civil asset forfeiture. For instance, South Carolina police tried to seize an elderly woman’s home because drug deals occurred on the property—even though she had no connection to the crimes and tried to stop them.

Tyson Timbs is not quite so sympathetic, but his story illustrates the injustice of limitless forfeiture.


You can read more at the link, if you're interested.

TL;DR: Woohoo!

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:49 pm UTC

thank you for sharing some good news
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby ObsessoMom » Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:13 pm UTC

More good news, among the bad news: yesterday, the majority of a law enforcement department demonstrated that they have consciences, and backbones:

Nowata County sheriff, undersheriff, deputies resign over jail controversy

NOWATA, Oklahoma - The Nowata County Sheriff and all of her patrol deputies resigned Monday, rather than obey an order to move prisoners back into the county jail, which was closed after a carbon monoxide leak was discovered. The Sheriff said no repairs had been made and the order would jeopardize the lives of prisoners. “I believe in doing the right thing and I am not going to stand down from doing the right thing” said Barnett.

[...]

The Undersheriff, five deputies, the head dispatcher, the jailers, and even the K-9, “Ranger” quit. His handler worked to get a paw print on a resignation letter. Several volunteer dispatchers said they plan to stay and answer the phones, though the office is otherwise empty. The Sheriff said she leaves with her honor intact. “I will not sweep things under the rug for Nowata County, I am not going to do the wrong thing,” she said.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby natraj » Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:47 am UTC

just feel like it's important to highlight in stories like those that the option was between "endanger people's lives" or "don't be a cop at all". which is what we mean when we say all cops are bastards! this isn't a story of Good Cops, it's a story about how it's literally impossible to be a good cop
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