Police misbehavior thread

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Fire Brns » Tue May 21, 2013 7:04 pm UTC

Heisenberg wrote:Well, there's a thread question answered

I was pleasantly surprised, thanks guys.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Tue May 21, 2013 7:30 pm UTC

In Mississippi there was a case where the police entered without warning or a warrant, and an officer was shot just below best and bled out; the unplanned killer was sentenced to death.

He got out on a plea bargain two years ago when people outside of Mississippi found out.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue May 21, 2013 8:20 pm UTC

Роберт wrote:I don't see that happening. You're not going to shoot 5 guys dead before you realize it's cops. Once you realize it's cops, how are you going to deescalate the situation without getting killed?


Well, the realization that it's cops might well not come until after the event. Between surprise, gunshots, flashbangs, and god knows what else, it's likely to be a confusing, traumatic experience for the homeowner. However, the odds in terms of a violent encounter definitely wildly favor the entry team. They have numbers, they have suprise, they likely have the gear and training edges. However, with enough incidents, even unlikely events become statistically likely. Same principle as someone having to win the lottery.

If you accept the right to self-defense, and you also accept no-warning, no identification entry teams, you're bound to end up at a place where both parties assume the other is the "bad guys" and violence is happening for no good reason.

And yeah, de-escalation after such an event seems to be a challenge. I was pleasantly surprised as well that they managed to take one of the boston bombers alive...though as they apparently fired hundreds of shots in the shootout, and fired a bunch more at the boat, there does appear to be a large luck element there. Certainly, police in the wake of a police shooting tend to be very twitchy.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Роберт » Tue May 21, 2013 9:33 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote: I was pleasantly surprised as well that they managed to take one of the boston bombers alive...though as they apparently fired hundreds of shots in the shootout, and fired a bunch more at the boat, there does appear to be a large luck element there. Certainly, police in the wake of a police shooting tend to be very twitchy.

It probably was partially luck that they didn't kill either of the bombers. Too bad the younger one ran the other over, because they were about to successfully capture the older one alive, too.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Tue May 21, 2013 10:59 pm UTC

I never had a gun. Thank God.

One time my sixty pound black lab had one of them all twitchy.
He was in Her House acting weird. She growled at him.

I patted her on the head and said, "Good Girl."
She had only growled two times.
I thought her judgment was good.

She and I were both used to company. We liked it.
But; Even a Black Lab draws the line at Uniformed Bullies in her house at night.
It woke her up.

Those Yappy dogs with Go for a Person.
Good thing I didn't have one of those.

(big sigh.) I don't know.
I might have been better off, shot.

Yes. I have heard of people committing suicide by Police.
I knew a man that got one of his Dogs that way.

His friend came by and dropped off the Dog.
Then went and challenged the Police.
They shot him.

I was there when the man got The Call.
He was Upset. All he said was The Dog is ours now.

I didn't care who the Dog belonged to.
He told me, Why. Then we were both unhappy.

The man was being threatened with more Jail Time.
I never met him. I am taking the word of the man with The Dog.

It has been like a Nightmare.
If I could I would wake up, now.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

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Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Thesh » Sun May 26, 2013 5:27 am UTC

Summum ius, summa iniuria.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby cemper93 » Sun May 26, 2013 5:46 am UTC

According to the police press release, pepper spray and multiple baton strikes were used to free an officer that was in the suspect’s grasp. In addition, the release notes bystanders kicking the suspect, a security guard also using a baton on the suspect.
So apparently, the police can't murder him alone? Isn't that their job? Maybe we should lay off all police officers and outsource murder to bystanders and security guards.

It's also pretty evident that in the unlikely case that somebody will get convicted for this, that person is not going to be a police officer.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Sun May 26, 2013 6:11 am UTC

Thesh wrote:http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2013/05/24/sacramento-police-investigating-death-in-custody/


It is my opinion those people are not doing The Job correctly.

It is, also, my opinion those people have been trained to do The Job the way it was done.

That, Children is a Problem.

Yes. The Men and Women in Blue are called to work with Mentally Ill persons.
Yes. The Men and Women in Blue are called to work with Criminals. Often.
Yes. I have heard the Men and Women in Blue say, "He is better off, Dead."
That does Not make it right.

For any of you Bleeding Hearts.
First hand experience tells me, 'It is not as bad as it Looks.'

It is plenty bad. Yet; It took three blows for me to go Down, one time.
The first blow hurt. But; Not that bad.
The second blow did not hurt much more.
The third caused me to go Down.

I felt my legs going and it was like sleep.
It was strange. I knew I was losing consciousness.
I did not care. The human animal, like all others, loses consciousness.
I hope he lost consciousness, early. There was no suffering when I was Down.

Fuck. That waking back Up, Hurts!
That man will not be waking up.

Do Internet People take a Moment of Silence?
This might be a good time for it.

Another one of Our People died today.
This man as injured in Public as a way of Terrifying all of us.
And! It works! I am frightened.

A moment of Silence. We can each bow our heads and Think.
Then we can rest our Souls. This one man is no longer Suffering.

We are living in Violent Times. The internet allows us to watch murder.
I remember the first murders on TV. It was a scandal at the time.

It is no longer a scandal. It is MainStream Entertainment.
Some of us are, still, better than that. Some of us.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
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Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby yuanxiao » Wed May 29, 2013 6:29 am UTC

Or the practice should be brought before SCOTUS so they can tear it a new one... although they did recently rule that cops can strip search anybody :D

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Thesh » Fri May 31, 2013 9:51 am UTC

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2013/05/28/te ... -incident/

So basically, a kid was stopped under suspicion of walking while black, when he looked at the police wrong, so the cops threw him to the ground and choked him.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby HungryHobo » Fri May 31, 2013 12:45 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:http://miami.cbslocal.com/2013/05/28/teen-says-police-overreacted-to-incident/

So basically, a kid was stopped under suspicion of walking while black, when he looked at the police wrong, so the cops threw him to the ground and choked him.


hang on...

Pit Bull mix


he had been arrested once before for robbery.


“And my puppy got hurt for no reason at all,” he said. “I wasn’t doing anything, just walking away.”


“How could I be clenching my fists when I was taking care of my puppy and giving him some milk with a bottle?” asked McMillian. “What do I want. I think we should sue.”


Miami-Dade Police Detective Alvaro Zabaleta told D’Oench it was just after 11:00 am on Memorial Day on Haulover Beach when officers saw McMillian slamming another teenager on to the sand.

“They told him that behavior was unacceptable,” said Zabaleta. “He walked away and officers followed him. They asked where his parents were. He said he was not going to take them to them.


so... police version, teenager fighting with some other teen or otherwise messing around on the beach late at night.

police try to stop him, he keeps walking away, they try to detain him.

His version: while he was just walking along with his little puppy bottle feeding his little pit bull mix puppy while walking along and doing nothing wrong the police attacked him for no reason.

I think he's laying it on a little too thick with the bottle feeding.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Qaanol » Fri May 31, 2013 1:13 pm UTC

HungryHobo wrote:
Pit Bull mix

I will just leave this here
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby HungryHobo » Fri May 31, 2013 1:46 pm UTC


first: it was his own description. the police report apparently doesn't mention any dog, being bottle fed or otherwise.

second

"pit bulls," "rottweilers," or if they can't jam it into one of those categories, "German shepherds."


he seems to ignore the other possibility, ie reality: that "pit bulls," "rottweilers," and "German shepherds." just happen to be the 3 most agressive and lethal breeds of dogs (as measured by bite fatalities) so they're both the most likely to attack people and the most likely to cause people to be justifiably scared.

http://www.curiosityaroused.com/nature/ ... atalities/
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Роберт » Fri May 31, 2013 2:18 pm UTC

HungryHobo wrote:
Miami-Dade Police Detective Alvaro Zabaleta told D’Oench it was just after 11:00 am on Memorial Day on Haulover Beach when officers saw McMillian slamming another teenager on to the sand.


so... police version, teenager fighting with some other teen or otherwise messing around on the beach late at night.

Ummmm... go look up the difference between am and pm, then get back to us.
“At that point we are not concerned with a puppy,” said Zabaleta. “We are concerned with the threat to the officer.”

IOW, the asked him about the puppy, and he said "we don't care". He didn't say "there was no puppy".
Miami-Dade Police said he had been arrested once before for robbery.

And was he convicted? And does this even matter even if he had been?
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby HungryHobo » Fri May 31, 2013 4:06 pm UTC

Роберт wrote:Ummmm... go look up the difference between am and pm, then get back to us.


Right, I withdraw the most irrelevant piece of this. 11 Am not Pm.


IOW, the asked him about the puppy, and he said "we don't care". He didn't say "there was no puppy".

You see that line above the one you quoted?

He said the police report did not indicate that a puppy was involved.


ie, the police report made no mention of it.


Роберт wrote:
Miami-Dade Police said he had been arrested once before for robbery.

And was he convicted? And does this even matter even if he had been?


Since he's a juvenile I imagine that information isn't publicly available.
And yes, it does to the extent that if the police say a teenager was causing trouble in one way (slamming another teenager on to the sand.) a record of causing trouble in other ways is relevant since they're not random unrelated variables and it makes their account more credible.

but I'm sure they just attacked him for no reason while he was bottle feeding a puppy.
Last edited by HungryHobo on Fri May 31, 2013 4:07 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Qaanol » Fri May 31, 2013 4:07 pm UTC

HungryHobo wrote:http://www.curiosityaroused.com/nature/top-10-most-dangerous-dog-breeds-based-on-bite-fatalities/

Methodology much? That study uses CDC numbers for total fatalities per dog breed…but makes no attempt to divide by total number of dogs of each breed to determine relative lethality per breed.

…nor does it include mutts (unless, of course, mutts are counted under “pit bull type”…)

The conclusion may well be accurate, but that path taken to the conclusion is, to use the technical term, “utter bollocks”.

Also, it only counts fatalities, not serious injuries. If a dog tore into my leg and ripped a big chunk out of, say, my calf muscle, it would probably not be fatal, but, well, you get the idea.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby HungryHobo » Fri May 31, 2013 4:23 pm UTC

Qaanol wrote:Methodology much? That study uses CDC numbers for total fatalities per dog breed…but makes no attempt to divide by total number of dogs of each breed to determine relative lethality per breed.


I linked the pop news version.

the actual paper is more informative and talks about that.

http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationals ... eeds-a.pdf

"Despite these limitations and concerns, the data
indicate that Rottweilers and pit bull-type dogs
accounted for 67% of human DBRF in the United States
between 1997 and 1998. It is extremely unlikely that
they accounted for anywhere near 60% of dogs in the
United States during that same period and, thus, there
appears to be a breed-specific problem with fatalities"

Pit bulls contributed to 61% of dog bite deaths but Pit bulls make up less than 5% of the total U.S. dog population.

And yes they did deal with mutts
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Bsob » Fri May 31, 2013 4:48 pm UTC

Qaanol wrote:
HungryHobo wrote:http://www.curiosityaroused.com/nature/top-10-most-dangerous-dog-breeds-based-on-bite-fatalities/

Methodology much? That study uses CDC numbers for total fatalities per dog breed…but makes no attempt to divide by total number of dogs of each breed to determine relative lethality per breed.


Uh, what you think matters, does not matter to the point he was making.

The site linked made this claim.
A1: Most police reports where they shoot a dog call the dog either a "pittbull" or a "rottweiler"; This is because police lie and call all dogs they shoot either pitbulls or rottweilers.(because cops are evil and shoot dogs for fun. See look at my post a picture of my cute dog, the police totally want to shoot him)

This claim was refuted by this assertion

R1: Pittbulls and Rottweilers are among the most common breeds involved in fatal dog attacks. We would expect to see them well represented in the group "dogs shot by police officers".

Note that relative lethailty is not important here, but rather percent of total attacks. This is because we are not trying to figure out which breed is the most "lethal" but instead find out which breed would have the highest total number of police shootings.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Роберт » Fri May 31, 2013 5:20 pm UTC

HungryHobo wrote:
Роберт wrote:Ummmm... go look up the difference between am and pm, then get back to us.


Right, I withdraw the most irrelevant piece of this. 11 Am not Pm.


IOW, the asked him about the puppy, and he said "we don't care". He didn't say "there was no puppy".

You see that line above the one you quoted?

He said the police report did not indicate that a puppy was involved.


ie, the police report made no mention of it.

Yes, I saw that. The police didn't care about the puppy enough to put it in the report. That's hardly news to me. Wasn't I the one who posted the quote from them saying they didn't care about the puppy?

Or do you think the kid is lying about the fact the he had a puppy and the cops are just going along with it?

Anyway:
Miami-Dade Police said the reason officers approached McMillian is, because they saw him roughhousing with another teenager. When they approached him, police said, they realized there was no sort of altercation or fight going on, but they continued to ask McMillian where his parents were. McMillian said he turned to lead officers to his mother who was on the beach with him.

http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/local ... z2UtN0VKHF

So, the police said they knew his roughhousing wasn't any sort of altercation BEFORE the incident occurred.
Last edited by Роберт on Fri May 31, 2013 5:26 pm UTC, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Qaanol » Fri May 31, 2013 5:20 pm UTC

You are correct, Bsob, I withdraw my previous objection.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Роберт » Fri May 31, 2013 5:30 pm UTC

Look here:
Miami-Dade Police said the reason officers approached McMillian is, because they saw him roughhousing with another teenager.
When they approached him, police said, they realized there was no sort of altercation or fight going on, but they continued to ask McMillian where his parents were.
...
According to the police report, officers said McMillian got combative and clenched his fist. Police wrote, "He attempted to pull his arm away, stating, 'Man, don't touch me like I did something.'"
Miami-Dade Police Detective Alvaro Zabaleta explained, "All of that body language alone is already letting the officers know that this is a person that is now obviously getting agitated and can become violent."

Isn't that a teensy bit concerning?

According to the police, they went up when they saw the kid slam another kid to the ground, realized it wasn't a fight (teens roughouse on the beach all the time and the cops aren't that dumb, thankfully), but because he looked at them in a "dehumanizing" way, and attempted to pull away, saying "Man, don't touch me like I did something", that's grounds for doing what they did? They had no reason at that point to do anything. They already knew he hadn't been involved in a fight. So he's grouchy at police while black? And that's a valid reason for them to arrest him?
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Fri May 31, 2013 7:11 pm UTC

"We knew if we kept harassing him with absolutely no justification that there was a chance he might become aggressive, so we continued to investigate the situation in a completely one-sided, willfully ignorant manner."

Or am I reading between the lines?

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Aceo » Fri May 31, 2013 7:18 pm UTC

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Fri May 31, 2013 7:50 pm UTC

That's one way to prevent a suicide. Now just imagine their healthcare system. 'No one dies of cancer. Ever.'

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Роберт » Fri May 31, 2013 7:50 pm UTC


Looks like a case of "he said, she said".
The lawsuit filed in federal District Court in Fresno alleges that deputy Art Parra Jr. used unreasonable force when he fatally shot 32-year-old George Israel Ramirez on April 16, 2012. The Stanislaus County district attorney reached a different conclusion after investigating the shooting. Investigators found that Ramirez resisted arrest and struggled with the deputy over a Taser before the shooting.
Authorities said Parra had responded to a report of a family fight at the Keyes home where Ramirez lived with family members.

Turlock attorney Michael Warda brought the action last week on behalf of George V. and Mercedes Ramirez, parents of the deceased, and brothers Isaac and Moses Ramirez. In October, their damage claims against the county sought a total of $61 million in compensation for emotional distress, post-traumatic stress and other health problems since the incident.
The federal court lawsuit seeks an unspecified amount of compensatory, special and punitive damages.


http://www.modbee.com/2013/05/29/273848 ... -over.html

CorruptUser wrote:That's one way to prevent a suicide. Now just imagine their healthcare system. 'No one dies of cancer. Ever.'

I'm not certain that a suicide was prevented, considering Ramirez said "shoot me" and the cop complied. Sounds like a legal case of assisted suicide, since the cop was cleared of wrongdoing.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Brace » Fri May 31, 2013 8:52 pm UTC

Sounds like a case of legalese being abused to protect an officer guilty of wrongdoing. Here's a quote from the comments of the first article that sums it up, I think

> I'd love to hear the cop's justification for this.

Sure, it's easy. Note that what I will write below is not my own opinion, it's what the cops' justification will be.

> Why did he think he was sent to their home?

The police can arrest individuals who pose threat not only to others, but also to themselves. Since the police had report about the man being danger to himself, they had to address it.

The suspect refused to comply with lawful officer's orders; in order to subdue him, the officer ordered to place hands behind his back. When the man turned around, this was an immediate threat to the officer, so firing the tazer
was justified.

After the tazer was fired, the man continued to function and continued refusing to comply with the orders. Since non-lethal methods were already exhausted, the officer had no other choice to ensure compliance with his orders but to use lethal force. This was in full compliance with department's policy of escalating the force: first the order; if not compliance, then tazer; if still no compliance, kill the suspect.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri May 31, 2013 9:34 pm UTC

Ugh. I don't disagree that this will be the thrust of the matter, perhaps softened by lots of "unfortunatelys" and other verbal padding, but seriously, tazers and other less-lethal options are sold to the public as a better option than killing someone, not as a compliance tool. I don't really like the creep of weaponry into forcing compliance.

This is especially true with firearms. Firearms used to stop an actual danger? Sure. Firearms solely to produce compliance? Not really ok with that. If you can't identify an actual danger to others, you shouldn't be firing a gun. Danger to self is not a reason to kill someone. Killing someone to prevent a suicide doesn't even make sense. Tazing someone to stop them from killing themselves? Ok, I can see situations where that could be reasonable.

We had a similar case here recently. Costco worker was shot, first with a tazer, then with guns. She had a knife and possibly scissors, it's reported. She was working pizza samples, tho, so the knife was the pizza cutting knife. Her manager said she was acting erratically, but the only example given in any media reports is "she was concerned about the number of pizza samples in the box". That doesn't seem inherently a strange thing for her to talk about given what she was doing, and there's a complete lack of customers noticing anything wrong prior to the cops rushing in...and no customers or workers were hurt or threatened, so the justification so far seems weak. One cop was shot, but all the shooting was being done by police, so that's not really on her.

Now, sure, she COULD have been waving the knife around threateningly or something, but it just seems like you should be able to describe her behavior specifically if there was an actual threat. Like "holy crap, she waved the knife in the air and started screaming". That'd be a good, solid reasons. "acting unusual" or similar is suspiciously vague.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Роберт » Fri May 31, 2013 10:06 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:Ugh. I don't disagree that this will be the thrust of the matter, perhaps softened by lots of "unfortunatelys" and other verbal padding, but seriously, tazers and other less-lethal options are sold to the public as a better option than killing someone, not as a compliance tool. I don't really like the creep of weaponry into forcing compliance.

This is especially true with firearms. Firearms used to stop an actual danger? Sure. Firearms solely to produce compliance? Not really ok with that. If you can't identify an actual danger to others, you shouldn't be firing a gun. Danger to self is not a reason to kill someone. Killing someone to prevent a suicide doesn't even make sense. Tazing someone to stop them from killing themselves? Ok, I can see situations where that could be reasonable.

We had a similar case here recently. Costco worker was shot, first with a tazer, then with guns. She had a knife and possibly scissors, it's reported. She was working pizza samples, tho, so the knife was the pizza cutting knife. Her manager said she was acting erratically, but the only example given in any media reports is "she was concerned about the number of pizza samples in the box". That doesn't seem inherently a strange thing for her to talk about given what she was doing, and there's a complete lack of customers noticing anything wrong prior to the cops rushing in...and no customers or workers were hurt or threatened, so the justification so far seems weak. One cop was shot, but all the shooting was being done by police, so that's not really on her.

Now, sure, she COULD have been waving the knife around threateningly or something, but it just seems like you should be able to describe her behavior specifically if there was an actual threat. Like "holy crap, she waved the knife in the air and started screaming". That'd be a good, solid reasons. "acting unusual" or similar is suspiciously vague.

Do you have a news article on this? It seems quite pertinent.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Fri May 31, 2013 11:41 pm UTC

Brace wrote:Sounds like a case of legalese being abused to protect an officer guilty of wrongdoing. Here's a quote from the comments of the first article that sums it up, I think

> I'd love to hear the cop's justification for this.

Sure, it's easy. Note that what I will write below is not my own opinion, it's what the cops' justification will be.

> Why did he think he was sent to their home?

The police can arrest individuals who pose threat not only to others, but also to themselves. Since the police had report about the man being danger to himself, they had to address it.

The suspect refused to comply with lawful officer's orders; in order to subdue him, the officer ordered to place hands behind his back. When the man turned around, this was an immediate threat to the officer, so firing the tazer
was justified.

After the tazer was fired, the man continued to function and continued refusing to comply with the orders. Since non-lethal methods were already exhausted, the officer had no other choice to ensure compliance with his orders but to use lethal force. This was in full compliance with department's policy of escalating the force: first the order; if not compliance, then tazer; if still no compliance, kill the suspect.


But if the person is only a danger to themselves, doesn't killing kind of defeat the entire purpose of force? At the very best, this is a case of poor training where a police officer reacted based on instinct.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:06 am UTC


Yep. That is so Strange.

I remember in 2002 (?)
Eugene Oregon.
We seemed to be on the cutting edge of a change in Mission.

A woman called the police for help with her son.
He was mentally ill. He was a problem child.

This woman had called the Police in the past.
It was not pleasant.

She had only needed to call two or three times in ten years.
That is the way it was explained to me.

The young man Was yelling and waving his arms around.
He Was irratic and a general Pain in The Ass.

That is the way some people are when they need more help than Mom can provide.
Her son was shot in the Driveway. The poor woman. She loved that Kid.

He Was a Pain in The Ass sometimes. When he was good he was very, very good.
That is what his Mom said. We have always had bad things happening.
But; This does seem to be a trend. It has become more and more common.

What is the good of communicating with one another on the internet?
We can not change one thing about what is happening.
We are not, really, sure what we are looking at.

Has the rate of Abuse by Police risen? (It seems to be so.)
Or; Are we watching Train Wrecks for entertainment?

Is there one thing we can do to make this problem less of a problem?

All I can think of is;
1. People! Be Nice!
People must take some responsibility for Such Poor Behavior.

2. Retraining, again. Training. And; A little education might be nice.
I have sat in on some Continuing Education Classes that made my skin crawl.
The way the instructors talk about The People is reflected in the way The People are treated.


3. Citizens and Others in the field, all the time.

4. Turn off the TV. Turn off the internet, too?
(waaa. I like the internet. I'd do it, for the good of all.)


The people the Police deal with Day in and Day out are so much trouble, sometimes.
The People are a lot of trouble, Most of the Time!

That is what Police were supposed to do.
Protect and Serve.
A man that has been shot in the chest three times is ready to be served.

How did that cop miss? He fired four times at a man in the same room and Missed once.
How can that happen? I am a terrible shot.
I may be able to hit a person in the same room with me with all four bullets.
******************************Edit*************I feel like typing about it.*************
We, the internet vouours,can't do anything about it.
We can have no effect on What has already happened.
I is entertainment for us. I think I want to stop being entertained by such horrible things.

The clip of The Man being beaten in Sacramento California haunts me.
What did I see? oh, dear. What did you see?

I was not there. A person that was there might know more. A lot more.
That clip haunts me. I see in my minds eye a Police Man Down.

A Woman with a stick. It looked like one of those standard issue Black Sticks.
I have no idea. I was not There. I saw the clip. You can see the clip, too.

Was it Entertaining? Well? I have been beaten up, pretty bad a time or two.
I know what it is like. I was lucky. Most of the time, They hit me in The Head.

They usually hit me in the head, because that is where my mouth is.
Most of the time it is something I said. Stupid Mouth. Sometimes it fires unexpectedly.

That Female in a Blue uniform was not hitting the Creature that had her Partner in the Head.
I have no idea what it would be like to be beaten to death and not lose concousness early. (fuck)

So the clip runs in my head like a haunting. What did I see? I cry pretty easy.
(Sometimes, that is why I keep my dark glasses on indoors. Sometimes.)

What did I see? Did I see a Woman that was protecting her Partner?
That is her Job. That man is #1. She vows to protect him, everyday.
And; He vows to protect her, everyday. No problem, there. I like that.

What about the Other man? Who was that Guy and How Dare He Grab He Partner?
Why? How did this situation happen and What was she doing?

First: That is a well trained and Strong woman. She is doing what she has been trained to do. She is Doing her Job.
How did she handle that Stick? Pretty well, as I remember the clip. I will not play it, again. I don't want to.

What I see in my mind's eye is enough. Why was she hitting The Man Down? Was it a man? Is the clip real?
I don't know. I can make some guesses. I think it is like Farm Work.

"It is never the animals fault. Never. It is always Human Error."
That is true in so many cases. Exchange the word animal for whatever you work with.

"It is never the machine's fault. Never. It is always Human Error."
Some times it is a Human Error that is far away from the Operators Control. That is a different story.
That is a story of Engineers are The Heroes to me. Not the only Heroes. Have you Met those guys?

Back to the Clip that came out of Sacramento California. I have been to Sacramento.
It is an amazing City. From a distance, it looks like something from a Fairy Tail.

The way US I-5 is designed the Automobiles are Lifted Up into the air Somehow on a wide Roadway.
The city remains in view for a long time. It gets bigger and bigger and then it had a choice for me.

It could disappear into itself as I drove into it.
Or; It could disappear behind me. As I drove on into one of the Suburbs.

This is where the story of Sacramento California gets complicated.
There is a drug in that community that causes Drug Induced Psychosis in a significant number of users.

It is not an 1/1. I don't remember the numbers. I read everything I could find on the internet about that drug.
I even attempted to find out how it is made; On the internet. My google searches may have looked like someone that wants the drug. pfft. I wanted to Know about that drug.

I have talked to people on both sides of some of Those situations.
The person that has taken The Drug says that they are scared and fighting for their lives.
They say that sometimes an idea of Us against Them enters their minds. That can be bad.

They also say, "It was stupid." Or some such words. They come out of the Drug induced Psychosis.
They also say, "I thought I was invincible. I was strong. It made me feel alive. Like I was Really doing something!"


Weird. Right? Well; Sacramento had a lot of That Drug. The drug is Meth.
People of all ages take it. I swear, It's true.

So; The civilian that had hold of her partner may have been psychotic.
Psychotic people sometimes have unnatural strength.

That guy had her partner by the legs. Was he biting her partner's dick?
Yes. Her first job is to get that guy off her partner.

I saw a young man that I liked a great deal tear the Holy Shit out of a Police car.
I had a friend that was Police. Small town. She monitored The Police band from work.

She had the personal telephone numbers of every police person for fifty miles in any direction.
She was a fun girl. That one day was No Fun for me.

He had been released in the Morning and Catherine and the other Police were enjoying The Show.
By five pm he was arrested and should has been for what he was doing. I don't know what he was doing.

I do know he had taken that Drug. I was Heartbroken. He was such a great guy when I met him.
He was as Straight as a Monk. He wanted a Lamb. One day I walked in and there he stood with a Lamb.

It was like something out of a Fairy Tail. A big man so tender with a Lamb.
When the Police announced to one another that he had been arrested, I wanted to see him.

Catheine told me where he was. She wanted me to go look and bring back first hand information.
I did. She said, "Go to The Hospital." I did.

A Police Man met me in the Hall. I told him what I wanted and He led me to the back of the Hospital.
I did not talk to the Man. A lamb would not have been safe in that car. He was tearing it up.

There were (oh, let me see. it was a long time, ago.)
Six? Six Police people. Was it Continuing Ed Class?

It was educational to me. I had read about it.
This was the first time I had seen it in a controlled environment.

Some police cars are made with the the back seat as a Cage.
He was locked inside a Police Car. He was tearing it up.

There was talk of, "Can he break the window?"
He was Roaring like an animal.
The car was rocking.

He did not see me.
I hope. I hope he did not see me.

The Oldest and most Mature?
Well; One of the Police people was taunting me.

He asked, "Do you want me to open that door, so you can talk to him?"
I looked at that rocking car and began to cry, I said, "No."

He was such a sweet man. He was big one.
He could have killed or hurt me with his bare hands.

They got him into that car. How did they do it?


Those people may need better tools.
A Hypo of Thorizine or whatever is The Drug of Choice for professional to ease the suffering of Others.

There is no way that administering a Drug is more dangerous to The Man Down than a beating that killed him.
There are professionals that know what can be given that will Down a full grown man in 'Count backwards from ten.'

That man died. Everyone does.
Why are we entertained by it?

Is there anything that can be done?
Anything I can do? I can give advice, sometimes.

Does everyone know the following;
"Don't open the door on a Psychotic Patient until they calm down a bit."

Even the little guys can be dangerous.
That unnatural monkey strength.

Wait for exhaustion or the Drug wears off.
Some people are not Drug induced Psychotic.

We no longer 'have to' wait for exhaustion to make a human being approachable.

Drugs! I Love Drugs! Drugs can be helpful. Not indiscriminate use.
Anything can be overdone. That is why we need Oversight!

No one listens to me, anyway. I used to be shy. I changed.

Jared lived. I don't know what became of him.
I wrote a letter to The Court. Like a letter of Recommendation.

I had worked with him. He stole my heart with his Lamb.
I am conditioned by my Protestant upbringing to respond to a Beautiful, Strong, Young Man holding a Lamb.
I was helpless. I stood there looking at a man with a Lamb and my heart overflowed with love for him.

I was careful with him. Not because I was afraid of him.
I was careful with him, because he had been hurt.
He was a little twitchy.

He calmed down and relaxed around Catherine.
He trusted her. She betrayed him
Just My Opinion! Everyone Has One!

She was wearing a Uniform at the time?
She does not wear a Uniform, anymore.
She has moved Up in the world.

Same Drug. Different Place.
Not all people that use that Drug are Psychotic.

Most Psychotic episodes are short lived and may be a part of the Pleasure.
Each to his or her fucking own. You want to be Psychotic?

Fine; Let us make up some rules and I will babysit you.
I would not agree to babysit a person taking that Meth Drug all by myself.
That is a good way to have bad things happen.
That is a powerful Drug and a lot of people are taking it.

oh dear. When I came from Supervision was important.
Medical Staff worked all the Drug stuff out with everyone.

The Pharmists are about The Most Knowadgeable people on the team.
When it comes to Drugs those guys know their stuff. I met some.

The ones that went to OSU were, kind of, shell shocked after school.
Everyone goes through a little of that. "I Know Everything There Is to Know about Drug Therapy and I am counting pills. I sometimes forget what The Drug is. I sometimes don't care."

That Pharmacist was bitching about No Patient Contact.
She needed to see and care about the Patient.

I think she may have ended up working in a Long Term Care facility.
Lots of Drugs and Lots of people to care about.

That man was beaten to death. The blows were to his body.
Why did he have that Police Man Down?

Is she trained to deliver body blows?
There may be Drugs that are worse than repeated body blows.
What drug would that be?

Do you know how bad a blow to the kidney hurts?
It hurts. A blow to the head is merciful.

How about Not Hitting. Is there a way to That Place?

1. People! Be Nice!
2. Police! Fight Drugs with Drugs.

Remember, "fight fire with fire." ?

Pharmacist! What Drug will take a Man Down Fast?
It has to be IM or Aerosol. Aerosol will work fast. Right?

If the wind shifts The Police go 'night-night', too.
That could be loads of fun.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Belial » Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:56 pm UTC

Роберт wrote:According to the police, they went up when they saw the kid slam another kid to the ground, realized it wasn't a fight (teens roughouse on the beach all the time and the cops aren't that dumb, thankfully), but because he looked at them in a "dehumanizing" way, and attempted to pull away, saying "Man, don't touch me like I did something", that's grounds for doing what they did? They had no reason at that point to do anything. They already knew he hadn't been involved in a fight. So he's grouchy at police while black? And that's a valid reason for them to arrest him?


There is a term I've heard a few lawyers use: "Contempt of Cop".
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They/them

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:36 am UTC

Belial wrote:
Роберт wrote:According to the police, they went up when they saw the kid slam another kid to the ground, realized it wasn't a fight (teens roughouse on the beach all the time and the cops aren't that dumb, thankfully), but because he looked at them in a "dehumanizing" way, and attempted to pull away, saying "Man, don't touch me like I did something", that's grounds for doing what they did? They had no reason at that point to do anything. They already knew he hadn't been involved in a fight. So he's grouchy at police while black? And that's a valid reason for them to arrest him?


There is a term I've heard a few lawyers use: "Contempt of Cop".

The contemptuous are treated with contempt.
Unruly children will always be with us.

The People have a Responsibility to behave in ways that are respectable.
A teenage man is not able to do that, sometimes.

It is like asking a toddler not to toddle.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:17 am UTC

Роберт wrote:Do you have a news article on this? It seems quite pertinent.


Sure.

Huh. Looks like since I first heard of it, thePhilippine embassy has gotten involved.

I can't really be sure that it's misbehavior, but it does seem odd.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:33 am UTC

Роберт wrote:Do you have a news article on this? It seems quite pertinent.


Sure.

Huh. Looks like since I first heard of it, thePhilippine embassy has gotten involved.

I can't really be sure that it's misbehavior, but it does seem odd.


Odd? It does not seem odd anymore it is becoming Staus Quo.

I have had idiots, (fat rat) act as if I was a huge danger.
I worked with a knife in my hand a lot. I would forget it was there.

In a kitchen or doing what that woman was doing.
The knife does not seem like a weapon to us.
It is a tool that becomes like a part of our hands.

Some Asshole yelling, "Drop Your Weapon!"
She may very well have been moving toward the Police for help.

A Philopino woman can be a dangerous person.
Such a sharp tongue some of those girls have!

Two men driven to shoot a woman five times?
Out of Fear?! They are Too Fucking Cowardly to work for The People!

No I am not angry at all Police. I am angry at those two and their instructors.
Where did those Assholes go to school? What kind of Con't Ed have they been doing?

Did they go to a Three Day Class where they were drilled on recognizing a weapon and the protocol that leads to shots fired?
If that story is True, then that is a Huge problem.

Only one deputy fired his weapon, both Chapman and Mills confirmed, but the second responding deputy was injured in the incident. A gunshot, possibly a ricochet, hit the deputy in the leg. He has since been treated and released from the hospital.


Can you imagine a Costco with bullets bouncing around inside it?
Hell-o! Who is training these Men and Woman to be so fucking afraid at work?

It is so sad. She, most likely, did not know she had a weapon in her hand.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Роберт » Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:24 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
Роберт wrote:Do you have a news article on this? It seems quite pertinent.


Sure.

Huh. Looks like since I first heard of it, thePhilippine embassy has gotten involved.

I can't really be sure that it's misbehavior, but it does seem odd.

She had a knife. And maybe even scissors! Who cares about her children (8 and 12)? She was advancing toward experienced police officers carrying a pizza knife and maybe even scissors! You can poke people's eyes out with that kind of thing!
The Great Hippo wrote:[T]he way we treat suspected terrorists genuinely terrifies me.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Brace » Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:58 pm UTC

Is there any objective way to confirm that a taser was fired? In both a specific and general sense. That seems like something that might just be taken at face value based on the officer's reports. It just seems weird how many young teenagers, low functioning mentally ill people, and old ladies manage to shrug off being shot with a taser.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:40 pm UTC

Yeah, they haven't said why the taser didn't work, but it seems friggin' odd. Tasers are used in local police training, and Im not aware of any times when it's actually failed in training.

Now, if one or both of the barbs missed, that would explain it, though. A bad shot, and you've got no circuit. I wouldn't call that a failure, though. Sort of the expected result if you aim poorly, and not the fault of the device.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Thesh » Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:13 pm UTC

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/0 ... 86603.html

Police officers actually being prosecuted for an assault, of course he is being charged with "Official oppression" not assault.
Summum ius, summa iniuria.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:15 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/04/houston-police-chief-video-tape-beating_n_3386603.html

Police officers actually being prosecuted for an assault, of course he is being charged with "Official oppression" not assault.

ok. What about the professionals doing their jobs.
Like the Good Guys.

Violence is like Porn in some ways.
If a person never sees violence, that person may not think of it on their own.
If a person watches a lot of violence, that person may not be shocked by it;
That person may see it as Inspiration.

Like Porn.

When do we say; "Not General Audience Content"?

Humans have always been Violent Assholes and we alway will be Violent Assholes?
Mob behavior is very difficult to overcome.

We can be better than that. We can.
It is darn hard work.

We are naturally horrible?
We must overcome our Human Nature?

I thought Human Nature was reaching out a hand.
I thought Human Nature was a shoulder to lean on.

I was wrong about Human Nature.
It can be overcome. Not easily.

People that do not cause harm need a Star!
No one ever notices the Harmless.
Only the Harmful.

If that news story is real, then the men and women in Uniform are a problem.
That kind of behavior is not spontaneous; Is it?
Those are well trained people?

Educated? Or; Trained?
There is a difference.

Don't you ever want to talk to them?
I still do from time to time. You?

What would we have to say?
Well; I would want to know;
Is this funny? How?

Explain the Funny in this.
You explain the funny for a while.
Then I will explain the funny.

They have Got To laugh.
What at? The suffering of others?

Is that clip Real? Jesus.
And; Mary, Mother of God.

I have heard of it. I have not seen it before.
Not like that. We can be better than that.

Is it a lie? Is it not true?
It could be made up like Porn.
Based on what someone wants to believe is possible

The stories of Mob behavior go back before the founding of the White People in the US.
It is not a kind of story that begins here and now. It is the continuing story of Humanity.

We suck.

We have done some nice things.
Recently? Have Police done any nice things?

Ever? Some must be ok.
Not in every organization.
Good Cops would not last long in that kind of Organization.

eewww. Donnor? Remember the stories of Donnor?
He steped forward in defense of a person and his life was destroyed and he was hunted.
It was broadcast. The message was clear. Do not turn on The Brotherhood.

Especially when your brother is a woman? Well? Is it systemic?
Are you frightened? Of what?
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:41 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/04/houston-police-chief-video-tape-beating_n_3386603.html

Police officers actually being prosecuted for an assault, of course he is being charged with "Official oppression" not assault.


It'd be nice if they'd at least pretend that laws apply to us and them equally.


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