## Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Seen something interesting in the news or on the intertubes? Discuss it here.

Moderators: Zamfir, Hawknc, Moderators General, Prelates

Teledon
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:13 am UTC

### Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

6-28 is a special number and a special day. We'll all meet at the local bar and drink a round to Tau!

Gears
Bulletproof
Posts: 1593
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:31 am UTC
Location: Japan

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Hell yeah Tau day!
General_Norris wrote:I notice a lack of counter-arguments and a lot of fisting.

Dauric
Posts: 3989
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:58 pm UTC
Location: In midair, traversing laterally over a container of sharks. No water, just sharks, with lasers.

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Yeah, that is what came to mind first for me as well (of course my 40K army is Tau so..), but I think he's talking about this:

Tau Manifesto

The TL;DR which the details of are way over my head, is that Pi as the constant to determine circumfrence from diameter is wrong and an increased accuracy can be gained by using a constant derived from the radius rather than the diameter, a constant it's proponents name after the Greek letter Tau.
We're in the traffic-chopper over the XKCD boards where there's been a thread-derailment. A Liquified Godwin spill has evacuated threads in a fourty-post radius of the accident, Lolcats and TVTropes have broken free of their containers. It is believed that the Point has perished.

Posts: 5654
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:03 am UTC
Location: The Netherlands

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

I think Tau is actually a better choice for fundamental constant than Pi. I use Pi much more often with a 2 in front of it, than without one. The essay explains pretty clearly why. The radius simply is a more fundamental concept than the diameter.

For people experienced in math, it of course doesn't matter which one you use. Both work equally well. But I can see that using Tau over Pi would have great pedagogical benefits when teaching math to kids.
It's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I have an independent mind, you are an eccentric, he is round the twist
- Bernard Woolley in Yes, Prime Minister

morriswalters
Posts: 7073
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:21 am UTC

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Maybe so but think of how deeply the character pi is ingrained, how many books and programs it's used in. Think of having to keep up with both until pi dies. -sigh-

Magnanimous
Posts: 3491
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:11 pm UTC
Location: Land of Hipsters and Rain (LOHAR)

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Oh look, this argument again. (I have no strong feelings one way or the other. A lot of math is pretty arbitrary anyway, like having 360 degrees in a circle.)

Teledon
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:13 am UTC

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

The circular constant Pi = 3.14, thus 3/14 (March 14) is Pi day

The new, improved, easier-to-use, circular constant Tau = 2*Pi = 6.28, thus 6/28 (June 28) is Tau day.

Check out the "Tau Manifesto" at http://tauday.com/

If you eat a piece of Pi on Pi day, then you get TWO pieces of Pi on Tau day!

Teledon

T

PerchloricAcid
Posts: 339
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:09 pm UTC

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

I've become familiar with the "Pi is wrong, Tau is right" idea just recently (a friend e-mailed me the link to the Tau Manifesto). Even though I agree with it in principle and am personally considering switching to Tau in the future period, I don't really feel the urge to celebrate Tau Day. Neither did I ever really feel the urge or wish to celebrate Pi Day.
It is a good conversation starter, though

The Reaper
Posts: 4008
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:37 am UTC
Location: San Antonio, Tx
Contact:

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Dauric wrote:Yeah, that is what came to mind first for me as well (of course my 40K army is Tau so..), but I think he's talking about this:

Tau Manifesto

The TL;DR which the details of are way over my head, is that Pi as the constant to determine circumfrence from diameter is wrong and an increased accuracy can be gained by using a constant derived from the radius rather than the diameter, a constant it's proponents name after the Greek letter Tau.

wat. >< It's the same accuracy. All it's saying is that you can replace instances of 2pi with just the 1 tau.

Tirian
Posts: 1891
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:03 pm UTC

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

morriswalters wrote:Maybe so but think of how deeply the character pi is ingrained, how many books and programs it's used in. Think of having to keep up with both until pi dies. -sigh-

*shrug* I've seen more deeply ingrained things go by the wayside when it was their time. It would be an improvement if it were to be done, but it won't get done if we never have the courage to get started.

curtis95112
Posts: 638
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:23 pm UTC

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

morriswalters wrote:Maybe so but think of how deeply the character pi is ingrained, how many books and programs it's used in. Think of having to keep up with both until pi dies. -sigh-

You mean like pluto?
Mighty Jalapeno wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:
Роберт wrote:Sure, but at least they hit the intended target that time.

Well, if you shoot enough people, you're bound to get the right one eventually.

Thats the best description of the USA ever.

Thesh
Posts: 6577
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:55 am UTC

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Magnanimous wrote:Oh look, this argument again. (I have no strong feelings one way or the other. A lot of math is pretty arbitrary anyway, like having 360 degrees in a circle.)

Degrees? What are degrees? Do you mean radians? If so, there are 2*pi radians in a circle, not 360.
Summum ius, summa iniuria.

Posts: 1393
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:03 am UTC

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

curtis95112 wrote:
morriswalters wrote:Maybe so but think of how deeply the character pi is ingrained, how many books and programs it's used in. Think of having to keep up with both until pi dies. -sigh-

You mean like pluto?
Pluto isn't used in any calculations. Oh no, that kid learned that there's nine planets. He might look stupid in a conversation when he talks about the solar system.

Oh no, that kid learned to use pi in a formula. He's going to be confused as shit when he gets to college and they use Tau. Then he's going to maybe do poorly as he confuses the two and then he's going to hate math even more.

One is worse than the other!
avatar from Nononono by Lynn Okamoto.

Jave D
chavey-dee
Posts: 1042
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:41 pm UTC

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

What a circular argument.

lutzj
Posts: 898
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:20 am UTC
Location: Ontario

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Jave D wrote:What a circular argument.

I dunno, they seem to have struck a chord with all these math nerds.
That is what a bot would type.

curtis95112
Posts: 638
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:23 pm UTC

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

curtis95112 wrote:
morriswalters wrote:Maybe so but think of how deeply the character pi is ingrained, how many books and programs it's used in. Think of having to keep up with both until pi dies. -sigh-

You mean like pluto?
Pluto isn't used in any calculations. Oh no, that kid learned that there's nine planets. He might look stupid in a conversation when he talks about the solar system.

Oh no, that kid learned to use pi in a formula. He's going to be confused as shit when he gets to college and they use Tau. Then he's going to maybe do poorly as he confuses the two and then he's going to hate math even more.

One is worse than the other!

You really should be able to do a substitution that simple if you're doing college maths.
Mighty Jalapeno wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:
Роберт wrote:Sure, but at least they hit the intended target that time.

Well, if you shoot enough people, you're bound to get the right one eventually.

Thats the best description of the USA ever.

morriswalters
Posts: 7073
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:21 am UTC

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

I was lamenting the loss of a thing of beauty, however consider me all it, I don't have to deal with it at all. However you run down everyone that is going to have to know, I'm going to have a beer for pi and a shot for tau.

Gelsamel
Lame and emo
Posts: 8237
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:49 am UTC
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

You mean it's 2Pi day?
"Give up here?"
- > No
"Do you accept defeat?"
- > No
"Do you think games are silly little things?"
- > No
"Is it all pointless?"
- > No
"Do you admit there is no meaning to this world?"
- > No

KestrelLowing
Posts: 1124
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:57 pm UTC
Location: Michigan

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

I figured I'd leave this video here.

For those of you not aquanted with Vihart's videos, prepare to be entertained!

Tirian
Posts: 1891
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:03 pm UTC

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

omgryebread wrote:Oh no, that kid learned to use pi in a formula. He's going to be confused as shit when he gets to college and they use Tau. Then he's going to maybe do poorly as he confuses the two and then he's going to hate math even more.

Uh huh, no. I had to memorize that g is 32 feet per second squared in high school and 9.8 meters per second squared in college. I got over it, and that was the same symbol.

When I get my own math classes, my intention is to teach geometry and trigonometry from tau. First, it's a trivial conversion process, so people can substitute tau = 2 pi in their formulas or on their calculators. But, more importantly, as Vi Hart's video points out, it makes geometry and trigonometry more intuitive. The angle that splits a circle into seven equal pieces has measure tau/7 radians. With pi, you've got to juggle that annoying factor of 2 and the hassle obscures the deeper lesson. So I expect that tau makes it easier to teach and learn math, and that will even make it worthwhile to teach the conversion factor for a half a generation until all the textbooks and calculators are up to speed.

mojo12
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:09 am UTC

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

lutzj wrote:
Jave D wrote:What a circular argument.

I dunno, they seem to have struck a chord with all these math nerds.

No, I believe Jave was saying ... what a "circular" argument.

JudeMorrigan
Posts: 1266
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:26 pm UTC

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

mojo12 wrote:
lutzj wrote:
Jave D wrote:What a circular argument.

I dunno, they seem to have struck a chord with all these math nerds.

No, I believe Jave was saying ... what a "circular" argument.

Let's not have this thread go off on a tangent. (lutzj was playing along with Jave)

Jave D
chavey-dee
Posts: 1042
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:41 pm UTC

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

JudeMorrigan wrote:Let's not have this thread go off on a tangent.

I simply think it's important for discussions to be well rounded.

JudeMorrigan
Posts: 1266
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:26 pm UTC

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Now you're just making an elliptical argument.

Heisenberg
Posts: 3789
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 8:48 pm UTC
Location: Uncertain

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

JudeMorrigan
Posts: 1266
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:26 pm UTC

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Heisenberg wrote:This entire thread is irrational.

Posting in it is still quite transcendental though.

Garm
Posts: 2241
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:29 pm UTC
Location: Usually at work. Otherwise, Longmont, CO.

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

I'm on the pi side rather than the tau side. It helps that I'll never forget my wedding anniversary.
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
- JFK

Dobblesworth
Dobblesworth, here's the title you requested over three years ago. -Banana
Posts: 1429
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 12:06 pm UTC
Contact:

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

willaaaaaa
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:09 pm UTC
Contact:

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Tirian wrote:It would be an improvement if it were to be done, but it won't get done if we never have the courage to get started.

Can't have our pi and eat it too.
"If you can't control your peanut butter, you can't expect to control your life." - Bill Watterson

Garm
Posts: 2241
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:29 pm UTC
Location: Usually at work. Otherwise, Longmont, CO.

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Switching to Tau would also remove the beauty from the most elegant equation ever. It would be the quantity of e to the tau over two times i plus one equals zero (or e^((t/2)*i)+1=0). Weak.
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
- JFK

DaBigCheez
Posts: 836
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:03 am UTC

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

I, too, enjoy calculating the area of a circle as (tau/2)r2.
existential_elevator wrote:It's like a jigsaw puzzle of Hitler pissing on Mother Theresa. No individual piece is offensive, but together...

If you think hot women have it easy because everyone wants to have sex at them, you're both wrong and also the reason you're wrong.

Garm
Posts: 2241
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:29 pm UTC
Location: Usually at work. Otherwise, Longmont, CO.

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

DaBigCheez wrote:I, too, enjoy calculating the area of a circle as (tau/2)r2.

You are a terrible person.
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
- JFK

PerchloricAcid
Posts: 339
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:09 pm UTC

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Garm wrote:Switching to Tau would also remove the beauty from the most elegant equation ever. It would be the quantity of e to the tau over two times i plus one equals zero (or e^((t/2)*i)+1=0). Weak.

Have you even read the Tau Manifesto, as you're so determined to speak against Tau?
You could also have e^(i*Tau)=1+0, which also shows a relationship between e, i, Tau, 1, 0, just as the one with Pi does.

http://tauday.com/tau-manifesto

Zamfir
I built a novelty castle, the irony was lost on some.
Posts: 7590
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:43 pm UTC
Location: Nederland

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Garm wrote:Switching to Tau would also remove the beauty from the most elegant equation ever. It would be the quantity of e to the tau over two times i plus one equals zero (or e^((t/2)*i)+1=0). Weak.

It would become e^tau*i = 1

So it would remove the -1 kludge

Elvish Pillager
Posts: 1009
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:58 pm UTC
Location: Everywhere you think, nowhere you can possibly imagine.
Contact:

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Garm wrote:Switching to Tau would also remove the beauty from the most elegant equation ever. It would be the quantity of e to the tau over two times i plus one equals zero (or e^((t/2)*i)+1=0). Weak.

e = 1

Dah dahhhhh!

(Also ninja'd. Twice. But y'all should use better formatting )
Also known as Eli Dupree. Check out elidupree.com for my comics, games, and other work.

GENERATION A(g64, g64): Social experiment. Take the busy beaver function of the generation number and add it to your signature.

Ghostbear
Posts: 1764
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:06 pm UTC

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

PerchloricAcid wrote:You could also have e^(i*Tau)=1+0, which also shows a relationship between e, i, Tau, 1, 0, just as the one with Pi does.

Except having "+0" on an equation is about as inelegant as you can get; you didn't even perform the easiest simplification available!

Garm
Posts: 2241
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:29 pm UTC
Location: Usually at work. Otherwise, Longmont, CO.

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Right. Sorry, it's been a while since I read the Tau manifesto or one of the Tau rants (a year or so). It's still missing the point. The long form of Euler's equation combines the five most important numbers math.
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
- JFK

Xeio
Friends, Faidites, Countrymen
Posts: 5101
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:12 am UTC
Location: C:\Users\Xeio\
Contact:

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Ghostbear wrote:
PerchloricAcid wrote:You could also have e^(i*Tau)=1+0, which also shows a relationship between e, i, Tau, 1, 0, just as the one with Pi does.
Except having "+0" on an equation is about as inelegant as you can get; you didn't even perform the easiest simplification available!
I'm too hip to simplify, I complexify. (3+0+2+1+0)(x+0+x)(0+2x+0)(2x+0+0)/(eiTau+0)

Elvish Pillager
Posts: 1009
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:58 pm UTC
Location: Everywhere you think, nowhere you can possibly imagine.
Contact:

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Garm wrote:Right. Sorry, it's been a while since I read the Tau manifesto or one of the Tau rants (a year or so). It's still missing the point. The long form of Euler's equation combines the five most important numbers math.

Only due to further details about how we write equations, not due to any fundamental truth.

I personally find e = -1 much more elegant than e + 1 = 0. The latter uses an extra unnecessary symbol (or two extra symbols, depending how you count), and confuses the meaning (I have to mentally translate it to the former equation to think about what it really means).

And if you're not willing to eliminate unnecessary symbols, then there's nothing inelegant about e + 0 = 1, or, for that matter, e0iτ = 1.
Also known as Eli Dupree. Check out elidupree.com for my comics, games, and other work.

GENERATION A(g64, g64): Social experiment. Take the busy beaver function of the generation number and add it to your signature.

Ghostbear
Posts: 1764
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:06 pm UTC

### Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Xeio wrote:I'm too hip to simplify, I complexify. (3+0+2+1+0)(x+0+x)(0+2x+0)(2x+0+0)/(eiTau+0)

That's not even an equation!

Elvish Pillager wrote:And if you're not willing to eliminate unnecessary symbols, then there's nothing inelegant about e + 0 = 1, or, for that matter, e0iτ = 1.

The shifting of the 1 around is a kludge so that the equation includes both 1 and 0, but it's not inelegant -- having +0 is really horribly inelegant.