Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

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Teledon
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Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby Teledon » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:20 am UTC

6-28 is a special number and a special day. We'll all meet at the local bar and drink a round to Tau!

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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby Gears » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:20 pm UTC

Tau_Fire_Warior_by_Benn25.jpg
Hell yeah Tau day!
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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby Dauric » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:30 pm UTC

Yeah, that is what came to mind first for me as well (of course my 40K army is Tau so..), but I think he's talking about this:

Tau Manifesto

The TL;DR which the details of are way over my head, is that Pi as the constant to determine circumfrence from diameter is wrong and an increased accuracy can be gained by using a constant derived from the radius rather than the diameter, a constant it's proponents name after the Greek letter Tau.
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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby Diadem » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:24 pm UTC

I think Tau is actually a better choice for fundamental constant than Pi. I use Pi much more often with a 2 in front of it, than without one. The essay explains pretty clearly why. The radius simply is a more fundamental concept than the diameter.

For people experienced in math, it of course doesn't matter which one you use. Both work equally well. But I can see that using Tau over Pi would have great pedagogical benefits when teaching math to kids.
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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby morriswalters » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:42 pm UTC

Maybe so but think of how deeply the character pi is ingrained, how many books and programs it's used in. Think of having to keep up with both until pi dies. -sigh- :(

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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby Magnanimous » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:44 pm UTC

Oh look, this argument again. (I have no strong feelings one way or the other. A lot of math is pretty arbitrary anyway, like having 360 degrees in a circle.)

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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby Teledon » Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:00 am UTC

The circular constant Pi = 3.14, thus 3/14 (March 14) is Pi day

The new, improved, easier-to-use, circular constant Tau = 2*Pi = 6.28, thus 6/28 (June 28) is Tau day.

Check out the "Tau Manifesto" at http://tauday.com/

If you eat a piece of Pi on Pi day, then you get TWO pieces of Pi on Tau day!

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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby PerchloricAcid » Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:59 am UTC

I've become familiar with the "Pi is wrong, Tau is right" idea just recently (a friend e-mailed me the link to the Tau Manifesto). Even though I agree with it in principle and am personally considering switching to Tau in the future period, I don't really feel the urge to celebrate Tau Day. Neither did I ever really feel the urge or wish to celebrate Pi Day.
It is a good conversation starter, though :lol:

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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby The Reaper » Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:07 am UTC

Dauric wrote:Yeah, that is what came to mind first for me as well (of course my 40K army is Tau so..), but I think he's talking about this:

Tau Manifesto

The TL;DR which the details of are way over my head, is that Pi as the constant to determine circumfrence from diameter is wrong and an increased accuracy can be gained by using a constant derived from the radius rather than the diameter, a constant it's proponents name after the Greek letter Tau.

wat. >< It's the same accuracy. All it's saying is that you can replace instances of 2pi with just the 1 tau.

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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby Tirian » Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:37 am UTC

morriswalters wrote:Maybe so but think of how deeply the character pi is ingrained, how many books and programs it's used in. Think of having to keep up with both until pi dies. -sigh- :(


*shrug* I've seen more deeply ingrained things go by the wayside when it was their time. It would be an improvement if it were to be done, but it won't get done if we never have the courage to get started.

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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby curtis95112 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:31 am UTC

morriswalters wrote:Maybe so but think of how deeply the character pi is ingrained, how many books and programs it's used in. Think of having to keep up with both until pi dies. -sigh- :(


You mean like pluto?
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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby Thesh » Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:38 am UTC

Magnanimous wrote:Oh look, this argument again. (I have no strong feelings one way or the other. A lot of math is pretty arbitrary anyway, like having 360 degrees in a circle.)


Degrees? What are degrees? Do you mean radians? If so, there are 2*pi radians in a circle, not 360.
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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby omgryebread » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:20 am UTC

curtis95112 wrote:
morriswalters wrote:Maybe so but think of how deeply the character pi is ingrained, how many books and programs it's used in. Think of having to keep up with both until pi dies. -sigh- :(


You mean like pluto?
Pluto isn't used in any calculations. Oh no, that kid learned that there's nine planets. He might look stupid in a conversation when he talks about the solar system.


Oh no, that kid learned to use pi in a formula. He's going to be confused as shit when he gets to college and they use Tau. Then he's going to maybe do poorly as he confuses the two and then he's going to hate math even more.


One is worse than the other!
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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby Jave D » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:03 am UTC

What a circular argument.

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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby lutzj » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:06 am UTC

Jave D wrote:What a circular argument.


I dunno, they seem to have struck a chord with all these math nerds.
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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby curtis95112 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:27 am UTC

omgryebread wrote:
curtis95112 wrote:
morriswalters wrote:Maybe so but think of how deeply the character pi is ingrained, how many books and programs it's used in. Think of having to keep up with both until pi dies. -sigh- :(


You mean like pluto?
Pluto isn't used in any calculations. Oh no, that kid learned that there's nine planets. He might look stupid in a conversation when he talks about the solar system.

Oh no, that kid learned to use pi in a formula. He's going to be confused as shit when he gets to college and they use Tau. Then he's going to maybe do poorly as he confuses the two and then he's going to hate math even more.

One is worse than the other!


You really should be able to do a substitution that simple if you're doing college maths.
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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby morriswalters » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:49 am UTC

I was lamenting the loss of a thing of beauty, however consider me all it, I don't have to deal with it at all. However you run down everyone that is going to have to know, I'm going to have a beer for pi and a shot for tau. :wink:

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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby Gelsamel » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:58 am UTC

You mean it's 2Pi day?
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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby KestrelLowing » Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:16 pm UTC

I figured I'd leave this video here.

For those of you not aquanted with Vihart's videos, prepare to be entertained!

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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby Tirian » Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:54 pm UTC

omgryebread wrote:Oh no, that kid learned to use pi in a formula. He's going to be confused as shit when he gets to college and they use Tau. Then he's going to maybe do poorly as he confuses the two and then he's going to hate math even more.


Uh huh, no. I had to memorize that g is 32 feet per second squared in high school and 9.8 meters per second squared in college. I got over it, and that was the same symbol.

When I get my own math classes, my intention is to teach geometry and trigonometry from tau. First, it's a trivial conversion process, so people can substitute tau = 2 pi in their formulas or on their calculators. But, more importantly, as Vi Hart's video points out, it makes geometry and trigonometry more intuitive. The angle that splits a circle into seven equal pieces has measure tau/7 radians. With pi, you've got to juggle that annoying factor of 2 and the hassle obscures the deeper lesson. So I expect that tau makes it easier to teach and learn math, and that will even make it worthwhile to teach the conversion factor for a half a generation until all the textbooks and calculators are up to speed.

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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby mojo12 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:18 pm UTC

lutzj wrote:
Jave D wrote:What a circular argument.


I dunno, they seem to have struck a chord with all these math nerds.


No, I believe Jave was saying ... what a "circular" argument. :D

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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby JudeMorrigan » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:23 pm UTC

mojo12 wrote:
lutzj wrote:
Jave D wrote:What a circular argument.


I dunno, they seem to have struck a chord with all these math nerds.


No, I believe Jave was saying ... what a "circular" argument. :D

Let's not have this thread go off on a tangent. (lutzj was playing along with Jave)

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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby Jave D » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:37 pm UTC

JudeMorrigan wrote:Let's not have this thread go off on a tangent.


I simply think it's important for discussions to be well rounded.

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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby JudeMorrigan » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:57 pm UTC

Now you're just making an elliptical argument.

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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby Heisenberg » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:40 pm UTC

This entire thread is irrational.

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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby JudeMorrigan » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:45 pm UTC

Heisenberg wrote:This entire thread is irrational.

Posting in it is still quite transcendental though.

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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby Garm » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:55 pm UTC

I'm on the pi side rather than the tau side. It helps that I'll never forget my wedding anniversary. :)
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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby Dobblesworth » Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:51 pm UTC

Doing some preparatory reading...
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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby willaaaaaa » Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:48 pm UTC

Tirian wrote:It would be an improvement if it were to be done, but it won't get done if we never have the courage to get started.


Can't have our pi and eat it too.
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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby Garm » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:59 pm UTC

Switching to Tau would also remove the beauty from the most elegant equation ever. It would be the quantity of e to the tau over two times i plus one equals zero (or e^((t/2)*i)+1=0). Weak.
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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby DaBigCheez » Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:05 pm UTC

I, too, enjoy calculating the area of a circle as (tau/2)r2.
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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby Garm » Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:10 pm UTC

DaBigCheez wrote:I, too, enjoy calculating the area of a circle as (tau/2)r2.


You are a terrible person. :P
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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby PerchloricAcid » Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:19 pm UTC

Garm wrote:Switching to Tau would also remove the beauty from the most elegant equation ever. It would be the quantity of e to the tau over two times i plus one equals zero (or e^((t/2)*i)+1=0). Weak.

Have you even read the Tau Manifesto, as you're so determined to speak against Tau?
You could also have e^(i*Tau)=1+0, which also shows a relationship between e, i, Tau, 1, 0, just as the one with Pi does.

http://tauday.com/tau-manifesto

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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby Zamfir » Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:21 pm UTC

Garm wrote:Switching to Tau would also remove the beauty from the most elegant equation ever. It would be the quantity of e to the tau over two times i plus one equals zero (or e^((t/2)*i)+1=0). Weak.

It would become e^tau*i = 1

So it would remove the -1 kludge

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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby Elvish Pillager » Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:22 pm UTC

Garm wrote:Switching to Tau would also remove the beauty from the most elegant equation ever. It would be the quantity of e to the tau over two times i plus one equals zero (or e^((t/2)*i)+1=0). Weak.

e = 1

Dah dahhhhh!

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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby Ghostbear » Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:28 pm UTC

PerchloricAcid wrote:You could also have e^(i*Tau)=1+0, which also shows a relationship between e, i, Tau, 1, 0, just as the one with Pi does.

Except having "+0" on an equation is about as inelegant as you can get; you didn't even perform the easiest simplification available!

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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby Garm » Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:37 pm UTC

Right. Sorry, it's been a while since I read the Tau manifesto or one of the Tau rants (a year or so). It's still missing the point. The long form of Euler's equation combines the five most important numbers math.
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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby Xeio » Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:43 pm UTC

Ghostbear wrote:
PerchloricAcid wrote:You could also have e^(i*Tau)=1+0, which also shows a relationship between e, i, Tau, 1, 0, just as the one with Pi does.
Except having "+0" on an equation is about as inelegant as you can get; you didn't even perform the easiest simplification available!
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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby Elvish Pillager » Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:59 pm UTC

Garm wrote:Right. Sorry, it's been a while since I read the Tau manifesto or one of the Tau rants (a year or so). It's still missing the point. The long form of Euler's equation combines the five most important numbers math.

Only due to further details about how we write equations, not due to any fundamental truth.

I personally find e = -1 much more elegant than e + 1 = 0. The latter uses an extra unnecessary symbol (or two extra symbols, depending how you count), and confuses the meaning (I have to mentally translate it to the former equation to think about what it really means).

And if you're not willing to eliminate unnecessary symbols, then there's nothing inelegant about e + 0 = 1, or, for that matter, e0iτ = 1.
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Re: Thursday is Tau Day! Let's Party!

Postby Ghostbear » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:16 pm UTC

Xeio wrote:I'm too hip to simplify, I complexify. (3+0+2+1+0)(x+0+x)(0+2x+0)(2x+0+0)/(eiTau+0)

That's not even an equation!

Elvish Pillager wrote:And if you're not willing to eliminate unnecessary symbols, then there's nothing inelegant about e + 0 = 1, or, for that matter, e0iτ = 1.

The shifting of the 1 around is a kludge so that the equation includes both 1 and 0, but it's not inelegant -- having +0 is really horribly inelegant.


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