Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

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Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby Steax » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:15 am UTC

I figured we'd do better with a consolidated tech news thread, so yeah.

Facebook Groups will now tell you who and when sees your post. Down to the minute. I don't really see why Facebook would need to do this, as it'd just scare the creepies out of people.

450 thousand Yahoo passwords leaked. Apparently they're stored in plaintext and were obtained through a SQL injection.

Apple removes EPEAT environmentally-friendly certification, apparently because their new products are too fused-together to be properly separated for recycling. People, like the city of San Francisco, get angry.
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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby Bharrata » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:46 pm UTC

I imagine plenty of people have seen it already, but this gave me a nerdgasm a couple days ago:

http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2012/07/hp-memristors/

HP Memristors Will Reinvent Computer Memory ‘by 2014′

By Caleb Garling July 11, 2012

HP is two and half years away from offering hardware that stores data with memristors, a new breed of electrical building-block that could lead to servers and other devices that are far more efficient than today’s machines, according to report citing one of the technology’s inventors.

As reported by The Register, at a recent conference in Oxnard, California, HP’s Stan Williams said that commercial memristor hardware will be available by the end of 2014 at the earliest.

[...the rest is spoilered]

Spoiler:
A company spokesman tells us that the company has not officially announced its plan for memristors. “HP has not yet committed to a specific product roadmap for memristor-based products,” he said. “HP does have internal milestones that are subject to change, depending on shifting market, technology, and business conditions.”

But Williams’ remarks indicate that the introduction of the technology has been pushed back. Previously, Williams had said that memristor hardware would arrive in the summer of 2013.

“It’s sad to say, but the science and technology are the easy part,” Williams said at the recent conference. “Development costs at least 10 times as much as research, and commercialization costs 10 times as much as development. So in the end, research — which we think is the most important part — is only 1 percent of the effort.”


Historically, electrical circuits were crafted with three basic building blocks: the capacitor, the resistor, and the inductor. But in 1971, University of California at Berkeley professor Leon Chua predicted the existence of a fourth: the memristor, short for memory resistor. Like an ordinary resistor, a memristor would create and maintain a safe flow of electrical current across a device, but unlike a resistor, it would “remember” charges even when it lost power. This would allow it to store information — i.e., serve as computer memory.

Then, in May of 2008, HP announced that it had actually built a memristor, thanks to HP Labs Fellow R. Stanley Williams and others working in the company’s research arm. Williams and team fashioned their memristor using the semiconductor titanium dioxide. The device, Williams said at the time, could provide a more efficient form of non-volatile memory — memory that can retain its information even when it loses power. According to Williams, it will significantly outperform flash memory — which is used today in smartphones, tablets, and even data centers.

“[The memristor] holds its memory longer,” Williams said. “It’s simpler. It’s easier to make — which means it’s cheaper — and it can be switched a lot faster, with less energy.”

Recently, HP has partnered with a South Korean company called Hynix — an outfit that manufactures flash memory — to produce memristor hardware. But according to The Register, Williams has said that Hynix must play its cards carefully.

“Our partner, Hynix, is a major producer of flash memory, and memristors will cannibalise its existing business by replacing some flash memory with a different technology,” he said. “So the way we time the introduction of memristors turns out to be important. There’s a lot more money being spent on understanding and modeling the market than on any of the research.”

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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:54 pm UTC

Looking up the list of famous SQL injections, personally I think hacking technology security firms should be fair game. While hacking is obviously wrong, if you are a tech security firm and can be hacked by basic attacks, you shouldn't exist.

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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby Xeio » Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:33 pm UTC

I'm pretty sure by that logic there would be no companies would exist. Even Google has been victim of XSS and similar attacks. :P

EDIT: I may have overlooked the "security firm" part, which makes a bit more sense, though it probably depends on the actual exploit and what systems were affected.

Bharrata wrote:http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2012/07/hp-memristors/
HP Memristors Will Reinvent Computer Memory ‘by 2014′
I wouldn't hold my breath. HP has been talking about these for a while, maybe we'll see the next big jump from flash memory, but when you keep hearing "we're only a few years away!" I get jaded.

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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby Bharrata » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:25 pm UTC

Xeio wrote:I wouldn't hold my breath. HP has been talking about these for a while, maybe we'll see the next big jump from flash memory, but when you keep hearing "we're only a few years away!" I get jaded.


Stop stomping on my dreams! :cry:

From the article, if they've actually built them it would seem to me that they're in the process of finding other large companies to buy them, put them in products and draw up contracts with the industrial manufacturers to support the market. Imagine an iPhone that saves its state if it dies, a laptop that boots in literally a second flat...that would be a big money maker for all involved.

I think 5 years tops at this point, but maybe 20 years will go by and I'll be ranting on the internet to whippersnappers about how the government killed memristors because they were too gol-durned good.

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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby Qaanol » Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:39 pm UTC

Bharrata wrote:Imagine an iPhone that saves its state if it dies, a laptop that boots in literally a second flat...that would be a big money maker for all involved.

Yeah, until the memory gets corrupted, and the product designers somehow neglected to include a “wipe working memory” feature, so the only recourse is to erase the entire drive…
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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:25 pm UTC

I'd settle for a desktop that booted everything in 30 seconds. It's probably because I'm using Vista, but come on, it shouldn't take 4 minutes to load everything up dammit! Yes, I've done various and thorough virus checks, and I keep up with Crap Cleaner and Spybot S&D, so the problem may be something else.

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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby Qaanol » Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:34 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I'd settle for a desktop that booted everything in 30 seconds. It's probably because I'm using Vista, but come on, it shouldn't take 4 minutes to load everything up dammit! Yes, I've done various and thorough virus checks, and I keep up with Crap Cleaner and Spybot S&D, so the problem may be something else.

My sister has a MacBook Air, we timed it at, I think it was 22 seconds for a cold boot.
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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby Xeio » Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:41 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I'd settle for a desktop that booted everything in 30 seconds. It's probably because I'm using Vista, but come on, it shouldn't take 4 minutes to load everything up dammit! Yes, I've done various and thorough virus checks, and I keep up with Crap Cleaner and Spybot S&D, so the problem may be something else.
Get an SSD, biggest speed boost you'll ever see to your computer. You can boot damn fast on those, and much more responsive once you hit the desktop too (still limited by BIOS if your MOBO doesn't have UEFI though).

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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby Steax » Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:24 am UTC

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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby Iulus Cofield » Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:28 am UTC

I was going to say that if you're trying to make data last for 30,000 years you might as well just carve it into a rock. Then I saw that they carved the data into a rock.

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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby Shivahn » Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:02 am UTC

I like how they gave the data in terms of numbers of pages of text.

Instead of you know, bytes or something most of us would understand. That is less impressive sounding I guess.

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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby Dauric » Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:57 am UTC

The point of the drive is to provide warning information about nuclear waste sites to a society that may exist after ours collapses and/or forgets where we buried our radioactive waste.

So... Do they have a computer that will last 10 million years? A power supply that will last 10 million years? If they don't have a computer that will last 10 million years do they have some way to describe the disk formatting so the data can be read? I know they can store it in a text file on the disk!

Of course even if the drive can be read will the future society be able to read the language? The point is a warning then it's not like a future archaeology expedition has months to decode the language or the disk formatting, the dig will be ongoing while someone else is mucking about with the drive. It'll be like those horror movies where they crack open the ancient horror's tomb and -then- the token smart guy deciphers the message saying "Tomb of the Immortal FaceMelter, Do Not Open."

Don't get me wrong, I think there's important uses for data storage with nearly infinite lifespan, having worked with things like county records where dealing with media degradation and copying old media to new media before the records are unreadable is a constant task, a drive that can be a truly permanent media storage is a good thing.

I just don't see "Leaving behind a warning to societies that rise after ours collapses about our toxic garbage dumps." to be a credible application.
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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby Steax » Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:04 am UTC

Well, the article does note that they're not sure what language to use. It's kind of a hilarious "okay guys, we have our perpetual storage device. Now, uh, any idea what we want to write in it?" situation.
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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby Shivahn » Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:14 am UTC

They should clearly engrave a bitmap of a man being eaten by the sun.

Oh! Or a compressed movie of a man being eaten by the sun.

Actually now that it occurs to me, if you could find a somewhat obvious way to indicate how to uncompress something and that it's made of a bunch of still frames, you really could communicate without written.

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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby PhoenixEnigma » Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:25 am UTC

Shivahn wrote:They should clearly engrave a bitmap of a man being eaten by the sun.

Oh! Or a compressed movie of a man being eaten by the sun.

Actually now that it occurs to me, if you could find a somewhat obvious way to indicate how to uncompress something and that it's made of a bunch of still frames, you really could communicate without written.

IIRC, something (Pioneer? Voyager? something else?) did this by making the number of bits the product of three primes, and stuck to monochome images. It's not particularly great in terms of quality or efficiency, but it's very likely to be properly reconstructed with no prior knowledge.
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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby elasto » Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:37 am UTC

Xeio wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:I'd settle for a desktop that booted everything in 30 seconds. It's probably because I'm using Vista, but come on, it shouldn't take 4 minutes to load everything up dammit! Yes, I've done various and thorough virus checks, and I keep up with Crap Cleaner and Spybot S&D, so the problem may be something else.
Get an SSD, biggest speed boost you'll ever see to your computer. You can boot damn fast on those, and much more responsive once you hit the desktop too (still limited by BIOS if your MOBO doesn't have UEFI though).

Yeah. My laptop usually boots in about 15 seconds and desktop apps launch instantly.

Best money I ever spent. Would recommend it to anyone.

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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby Iulus Cofield » Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:19 am UTC

Shivahn wrote:I like how they gave the data in terms of numbers of pages of text.

Instead of you know, bytes or something most of us would understand. That is less impressive sounding I guess.


I have been told before that a page of plain text is roughly a kilobyte, so their disk is roughly 40 megabytes. So...I have no idea why someone thought it was worth $30k to make a disc that is large, holds little, will probably be mistaken as art, and is likely to be completely indecipherable to whoever or whatever is reading it in a couple million years. If the discs haven't been moved/lost in the intervening millenia.

I expect future people to figure out the dangers of nuclear waste dumps by means of radiation poisoning sooner than they decipher a mysterious disk.

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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby The Great Hippo » Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:26 am UTC

Iulus Cofield wrote:
Shivahn wrote:I like how they gave the data in terms of numbers of pages of text.

Instead of you know, bytes or something most of us would understand. That is less impressive sounding I guess.


I have been told before that a page of plain text is roughly a kilobyte, so their disk is roughly 40 megabytes. So...I have no idea why someone thought it was worth $30k to make a disc that is large, holds little, will probably be mistaken as art, and is likely to be completely indecipherable to whoever or whatever is reading it in a couple million years. If the discs haven't been moved/lost in the intervening millenia.

I expect future people to figure out the dangers of nuclear waste dumps by means of radiation poisoning sooner than they decipher a mysterious disk.
Yeah, if future people have sufficient technology to decode million-year-old hard-drives, I think it might be fair to also assume they have sufficient technology to build themselves a geiger counter.

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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby ahammel » Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:55 pm UTC

I think they may have been kidding about the nuclear waste warning sign application for their crazy HD.

I seem to remember a Carl Sagan book where he was talking about a group whose job it was to come up with a nuclear waste label that would be intelligible for millions of years. I think it menaced with spikes of granite or something.
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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby CorruptUser » Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:24 pm UTC

A quick googling says a page a plain text can be as little as half a kilobyte. So the harddrive has about 20 megabytes.

But anyway, imagine if one of our mines breaks into a chamber, with what appears to be an incredibly old yet incredibly advanced piece of machinery that predates human civilization. Advanced beyond our own technology. A piece of machinery turns on, and a holograph appears. The holograph says "BLARGH! GAMMO NEE JOO! NEE JOO!" and displays an image of a human dying in a horrible fashion. Would we really turn away, or would we send some archaeologists to discover just what it is that we found?
Last edited by CorruptUser on Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:31 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby Dauric » Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:24 pm UTC

ahammel wrote:I think they may have been kidding about the nuclear waste warning sign application for their crazy HD.


Uhm...

Created by French nuclear waste management agency ANDRA,


It was developed by an organization that specifically deals with nuclear waste management.
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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby Shivahn » Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:48 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:A quick googling says a page a plain text can be as little as half a kilobyte. So the harddrive has about 20 megabytes.

Alternately, if a page of plain text has three thousand characters in UTF16 then the hard drive has about half a gigabyte.

I mean, the person saying it was involved so it's doubtful he'd understate the capability, but without context we don't know what he means. Compressed, uncompressed, ASCII, UTF16, font. It's something to make people who don't understand information be like "holy shit!" but it really doesn't help the people who do and want to know how much info can be stored.

Worst "unit people can understand easily" ever.

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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby Ghostbear » Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:51 pm UTC

Xeio wrote:I wouldn't hold my breath. HP has been talking about these for a while, maybe we'll see the next big jump from flash memory, but when you keep hearing "we're only a few years away!" I get jaded.

Memristors are probably the best candidate for a flash replacement though. Most of the other options (MRAM, FRAM, PRAM, etc.) have far more significant issues to solve than memristors in order to became commercially viable. Getting something over that last hurdle to be in commercial production is fraught with overoptimistic guesses, but I wouldn't be terribly surprised to see it making that leap sometime in the next 10 years, at least as storage devices. Though it might need some of the technology to be handed off from HP to someone else first.

The Great Hippo wrote:I think it might be fair to also assume they have sufficient technology to build themselves a geiger counter.

Isn't the problem that once a nuclear waste site (after being buried under 1 million years of dirt and rubble) is breached enough to set off a geiger counter it would be too late? It'd be a warning of the places not to fuck with when trying to clear the earth with heavy equipment, explosives, or what have you. How many mountains do we just blast away at when we need to get through it? How much earth do we move when making canals? If earlier generations had discovered nuclear energy without a way to tell us where their waste was left, we'd probably have caused a lot of accidents despite access to geiger counters.

Shivahn wrote:Alternately, if a page of plain text has three thousand characters in UTF16 then the hard drive has about half a gigabyte.

I mean, the person saying it was involved so it's doubtful he'd understate the capability, but without context we don't know what he means. Compressed, uncompressed, ASCII, UTF16, font. It's something to make people who don't understand information be like "holy shit!" but it really doesn't help the people who do and want to know how much info can be stored.

Worst "unit people can understand easily" ever.

It could even be stored as uncompressed bitmaps of the individual pages of information. Or as an audio book, or a video with each page being turned after 30 seconds. Obviously you went for a more technical encoding possibilities there, but there are a lot of ways to store "pages of text", counter-intuitive as many of them might be.

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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby Shivahn » Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:22 pm UTC

Ghostbear wrote:It could even be stored as uncompressed bitmaps of the individual pages of information. Or as an audio book, or a video with each page being turned after 30 seconds. Obviously you went for a more technical encoding possibilities there, but there are a lot of ways to store "pages of text", counter-intuitive as many of them might be.


That's true, though I bet if it was a video of forty thousand pages being turned at a rate of two a minute, he's have given the answer in gigabytes :P

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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby Dauric » Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:13 pm UTC

Ghostbear wrote:
The Great Hippo wrote:I think it might be fair to also assume they have sufficient technology to build themselves a geiger counter.

Isn't the problem that once a nuclear waste site (after being buried under 1 million years of dirt and rubble) is breached enough to set off a geiger counter it would be too late? It'd be a warning of the places not to fuck with when trying to clear the earth with heavy equipment, explosives, or what have you. How many mountains do we just blast away at when we need to get through it? How much earth do we move when making canals? If earlier generations had discovered nuclear energy without a way to tell us where their waste was left, we'd probably have caused a lot of accidents despite access to geiger counters.


However even in those examples an ancient info kiosk would be just as useless for much the same reasons, hell if we're talking a train-tunnel or some other mega infrastructure project the computer will probably be even more worthless as it gets blown to smithereens, or short of smithereens if the sapphire structure of the HD platters gets cracked when the demo charges go off.

Point being it's got applications where it would be useful, such as storing government records without having to worry about the media degrading over time, but as a way to warn future civilizations about nuclear waste stores.. not so much.
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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby Ghostbear » Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:42 pm UTC

I didn't think the idea was to place it at the same location as the waste sites, but more shoved in a satellite or some such (though a satellite itself would have its own issues with preventing data corruption...), or maybe have one deep within every waste site -- they're unlikely to use equipment that will annihilate the entire location. Beyond that, it's not as if every location would get blown apart -- just some of them. If we have 100 nuclear waste sites, and 17 of them get found, it only takes one of those 17 having an intact storage device available to hopefully head off future problems.

Making the data stored technologically accessible to future generations is the real challenge here. Making them able to understand SATA or displayport and x86 seems.. iffy, at best. I don't think spoken language will be as much of an issue as machine language. A bitstream doesn't mean anything until you decide how to interpret it.

Shivahn wrote:That's true, though I bet if it was a video of forty thousand pages being turned at a rate of two a minute, he's have given the answer in gigabytes :P

Or in VHS tapes! "This device can store over 300 VHS tapes (or up to 250 Betamax tapes) on it!". Though what I forget to go into with the video/audio/bitmap stuff is that that's all resolution dependent too. Saying that your device can store "4,000 movies" is meaningless. How long are the movies? What resolution are they stored at? Are they compressed, if so, what compression method? What about the audio track(s)? Even the color depth will matter. You can get extremely varied size differences just from saying that you have a 2 hour long movie in HD.

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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby PhoenixEnigma » Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:58 am UTC

Would you need particularly advanced technology to read a disk like that?

It's 20cm across, and obviously pretty round. You'll lose a little space to the spindle in the middle, I assume, so lets call the surface area 300cm2 as a nice even number. If we assume that the 40MB number is correct (and 1kB/page sounds the most reasonable to me for plain text), that's 320Mb of storage, or very roughly a million bits per square centimetre. That's makes each bit about 10 microns on a side, presuming they are square (which they probably aren't, actually).

That's certainly quite small, but not undetectably so - we were able to view red blood cells (which are a bit smaller) by 1700*. I'm going to guess however they are physically encoding the data will be visible, as well - probably just etching out pits. It wouldn't be too hard to put a plate of some kind that has simple, macroscopic, pictorial instructions for building a basic microscope beside the thing, either. In fact, if you click through to the original Science article, it states just that - they're designed to be read with just a microscope.

I think the bigger issue is what you'd put on such a drive. It's entirely possible that people who can view the data wouldn't be able to process it - 40MB is a huge amount of data if you don't have access to at least moderately advanced computational resources, so you'd have to prioritize the key points somehow. You also can't assume they know what ASCII is, or any given language, or even any given alphabet. Some of that is solvable with a sort of Rosetta stone, some of it probably isn't. How to communicate like that is an interesting problem.

Also, how much data do you really need to warn someone about the dangers of a nuclear waste disposal site? I can't imagine you actually need 40MB worth, so you could probably pass along a ton of interesting and useful information. What else could we stick on there?

*See the data? We could have done that by about 1700, probably sooner if we had instructions. Build a Geiger counter? Maybe 1800 with instructions and some luck. Do anything useful with 40MB? Probably the late '50s or early '60s.
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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby Zamfir » Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:57 am UTC

I doubt the desk is intended as warning. More as information carrier for future people who realize the site is something nuclear and want to know the details. If you can store some drawings, an inventory, time stamps, they don't have to guess or start a large scale program to map the contents. Only a smaller program to verify the disk's contents

I know several places where people put nuclear waste in the 1960s or so without careful registration what went into which container. People want to move the material now, but they have to treat all of it as the highest category waste, since they don't know for sure (until they open containers) where the nasty stuff is.

Future people would have similar problems. They would know something radioactive is buried, but not how much, how large the site is, how radioactive the stuff still is, how the stuff is contained, etc. And tyey probably want to know, if only to be sure.

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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby KnightExemplar » Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:52 pm UTC

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=n ... px=MTE0MDU

SDL2 has been announced, and Sam Lantinga is joining Valve. Open Source win? Or will Valve stay out of Linux?
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Steax
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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby Steax » Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:21 am UTC

Internet Defense League sports a... Cat-signal. Woo!
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Steax
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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby Steax » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:18 am UTC

BMG censors YouTube video clips for political purposes. Who would've thought?
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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby Arariel » Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:01 am UTC


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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby Ghostbear » Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:23 am UTC


Not really news at all. The lions share of it comes from a $6.19 billion write off from paying more for a company in 2007 than it ended up being worth to them. The inclusion of it in this quarter is more delayed accounting (which will very likely help to lower their taxes this year) than anything that reflects on their core businesses. They made a poor investment, but their core businesses are doing fine -- without the one time write off, they would have made a profit of $5.7 billion.

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Steax
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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby Steax » Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:15 pm UTC

Yeah, it just looks like they're compensating for a bad investment, but they're not actually losing money. Finance is confusing.
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Arariel
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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby Arariel » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:29 am UTC

But still an interesting development, nonetheless.

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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby Qaanol » Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:11 pm UTC

Tethering is legal. Verizon has settled with the FCC, and the fallout is that wireless carriers using public spectrum must allow their customers to use any devices of their choice. Specifically, they cannot charge extra if you share your phone’s data connection with your laptop or other devices via wifi, they can only charge for the data on their network.

Great news for Android and jailbroken iPhone users. Note however, that Apple is not a wireless carrier, so they are under no such restrictions, and thus are free to keep banning tethering apps from the App Store. Whether they will or not remains to be seen, but jailbreaking has also been ruled legal so they can’t stop you if you really want to.
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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby Chen » Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:17 pm UTC

Qaanol wrote:Tethering is legal. Verizon has settled with the FCC, and the fallout is that wireless carriers using public spectrum must allow their customers to use any devices of their choice. Specifically, they cannot charge extra if you share your phone’s data connection with your laptop or other devices via wifi, they can only charge for the data on their network.

Great news for Android and jailbroken iPhone users. Note however, that Apple is not a wireless carrier, so they are under no such restrictions, and thus are free to keep banning tethering apps from the App Store. Whether they will or not remains to be seen, but jailbreaking has also been ruled legal so they can’t stop you if you really want to.


Won't this end up with wireless carriers increasing the cost for EVERYONE because some people are using up a lot of bandwidth? Or won't it just make carriers move away from providing unlimited internet access?

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Steax
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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby Steax » Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:21 pm UTC

Apple bans tethering apps because they were used to get around carrier limitations, since tethering is an OS-level feature anyway. If carriers can't enforce a price on tethering, then these apps simply aren't needed at all.

Good news for the rest of the world too. We were worried if the US gets used to tethering limitations.
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Re: Tech News (Remember, Religious Wars Is Thataway)

Postby kiklion » Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:24 pm UTC

They are already moving away from providing unlimited plans. What this might do is increase the cost of tiered plans as people would be more likely to use up to their cap, however they also may be more likely to exceed the cap and pay increased rates for doing so off setting the increased usage at the lower rates.


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