Tyndmyr wrote:Diadem wrote:The plane was in Turkish air space for 17 seconds, and had already left their air space by the time it was hit. They also claim that they warned the plane 10 times over 5 minutes. And again, this is using Turkish sources. The Russians claim that the plane never entered Turkish air space, and that they were never warned.
Missiles are not lasers. There's a pretty significant delay there. Just saying.
Yes, which is why I wrote "had already left their air space by the time it was hit". It's the very first sentence of the bit you quoted.
Tyndmyr wrote:It's pretty obvious that Turkey was just looking for an excuse to escalate the situation. Their claim that the plane violated Turkish air space is entirely plausible, but their claim that they warned 10 times over 5 minutes is obvious bullshit. They Russian planes weren't in Turkey for that long, and weren't even approaching Turkey for that long.
Communications are common when you're near each other's airspace. Warning someone off before they've crossed is pretty normal.
Yes, which is why I wrote "and weren't even approaching Turkey for that long". Admittedly, this time it's the last sentence of the bit you quoted, so I can understand that you missed it. Reading more than 3 sentences is a steep mental challenge, after all.
Tyndmyr wrote:And if we aren't willing to do that, if we aren't willing to turn out back on the region, either out of humanitarian or military strategic reasons, then the only alternative is to go all in. Pick one clear side (either Assad / Russia, Turkey or the Kurds), so 'fuck you' to everybody else in the region, and put 2 million boots on the ground.
Yes, yes, start a land war against Russia. That always works out well.
Yes, which is why I wrote "But before that comes the essential first step of diplomacy. The above approach is doomed from the start if actively opposed by Russia". Seriously, are we even speaking the same language here? Did I stumble into some kind of absurd comedy sketch?