You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

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Phen
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Phen » Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:53 am UTC

Yeah, but it does get a little more boring when no enemy is challenging enough. I'm looking forward to the possibility of unending attacks in the new version...
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In war, one should seek to take and hold the high ground. From there, the enemy's movements are clearly visible, and he will struggle just to reach you, let alone fight you. High orbit is the highest ground there is.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Rakysh » Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:12 am UTC

I commit genocidal acts on goblins to live, not live to commit genocidal acts on goblins.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Phen » Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:47 pm UTC

Reminds me to try the orc mod next...

But, well, what do you live for when the fortress is strong and stable and you've already made some huge constructions? There's always more megaprojects, of course, but it can get very tedious.
Right now I'm pondering making some kind of large wall around the map to trap the goblins inside so they can't run away from my captain of the guard. Otherwise I can just send him alone against squadrons of bowgoblins and kill them all, until someone gets lucky.
I'm a wizard. We know these things.

In war, one should seek to take and hold the high ground. From there, the enemy's movements are clearly visible, and he will struggle just to reach you, let alone fight you. High orbit is the highest ground there is.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Rakysh » Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:37 pm UTC

Phen wrote:Reminds me to try the orc mod next...

But, well, what do you live for when the fortress is strong and stable and you've already made some huge constructions? There's always more megaprojects, of course, but it can get very tedious.
Right now I'm pondering making some kind of large wall around the map to trap the goblins inside so they can't run away from my captain of the guard. Otherwise I can just send him alone against squadrons of bowgoblins and kill them all, until someone gets lucky.


I've actually never got to that stage...

But yeah, megaprojects. On my outdoor fortress, I've made a smelting platform 20X20 square, about five Z levels above the ground. It sticks out over the edge of my fortress. Also, 10Z level blocks of flats. I recommend it.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Chicostick » Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:30 pm UTC

I started playing Dwarf Fortress after reading this forum thread. Now I'm hopelessly addicted to it.

My first fortress is going fairly well, I've got a chasm for dumping trash in, two narrow entrances loaded with traps, an underground river supplying me with plenty of power, and a couple irrigation systems for farming.

I just wish something would attack me. I've got all these marksdwarfs, axedwarfs, and hammerdwarfs standing around hurting each other. My traps have never even been sprung. I built a system of rooms that I can quickly flood in case of invasion, and the doors have never even been opened. I've only had two dwarf deaths total, one was stupid enough to mine a channel he was standing on over a river, and the other bled to death after sparring somehow. All my dwarves are happy, which is kind of annoying. Where's the rampages?

Although one thing of note was the second legendary item that got made, Irizdium, the platinum bucket. It's worth about 200,000, and is currently being used to tend to all the wounded soldiers who keep hurting each other. My barracks is over 12x12, but they still manage to screw it up.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Thadlerian » Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:55 pm UTC

Ah, finally! I can't believe how long time it takes to kill a fortress! Seriously, if you don't actively move to hurt your dwarves. Twice a maxed-out population went through the tantrum spiral and rebuilt. Only when I stopped food production and imports, things started ticking towards the end. Lack of food managed what sieges, water, magma and lunacy could not. And even then, it took a year until the last dwarf was gone. No wonder they say losing is fun; it's so difficult you feel you've won when you finally achieve it. Losing without intention is nearly impossible unless you're very unlucky or experimentally minded.

Anyway, now that that stupid aquarium is gone, time has come for my new super-project: The Great Brewery, as described in the wiki, under "Challenges".

This will be the one brewery to rule them all. I will aim to produce all kinds of booze (except Gutter Cruor and Sunshine), and export it large-scale. After a few years of running, the only acceptable payment will be gems, which will be hoarded in a huge... um, hoard somewhere safe.

The brewery itself will be constructed around a large vertical shaft in the ground. The top layer is for the four great brewable crops (pig tail, sweet pods, cave wheat, plump helmet), with other crops in greenhouses farther away. Layer below is exclusive storage for these plants respectively. Below that will be row upon row of stills, probably a hundred or so. And then there will be three or four levels of huge storages.

In the opposite direction, a magnificent tower will be erected. Some five-six z-levels up will be the trade depot (which will be connected to the undergroud storages by four narrow, free-standing staircase towers (symmetry is an issue here). The wagon-accessible route from the depot will be down a double spiralling ramp running down the shaft to its bottom, where it splits into guarded north- and southbound tunnels that surface far from the structure itself.

The important workers (brewers and planters) will have individual luxurious apartments somewhere, and there will be decent rooms for haulers and suchlike, as well as the for the security crew.

Let's see how this turns out. First challenge has presented itself already: Dark Gnomes stealing my booze. They must be punished severely.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Phen » Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:29 pm UTC

Chicostick wrote:I started playing Dwarf Fortress after reading this forum thread. Now I'm hopelessly addicted to it.

My first fortress is going fairly well, I've got a chasm for dumping trash in, two narrow entrances loaded with traps, an underground river supplying me with plenty of power, and a couple irrigation systems for farming.

I just wish something would attack me. I've got all these marksdwarfs, axedwarfs, and hammerdwarfs standing around hurting each other. My traps have never even been sprung. I built a system of rooms that I can quickly flood in case of invasion, and the doors have never even been opened. I've only had two dwarf deaths total, one was stupid enough to mine a channel he was standing on over a river, and the other bled to death after sparring somehow. All my dwarves are happy, which is kind of annoying. Where's the rampages?

Although one thing of note was the second legendary item that got made, Irizdium, the platinum bucket. It's worth about 200,000, and is currently being used to tend to all the wounded soldiers who keep hurting each other. My barracks is over 12x12, but they still manage to screw it up.

That's worth more than most of my stuff. :( I got adamantine (raw and wafers), platinum, aluminium and gems... They insist on using cobber of turtle shell.
Oh well. At least I have four masterwork raw adamantine statues, all masterfully decorated with precious gems, standing around my Queen's platinum sarcophagus.

... About the difficulty. Yeah, that's why I'm going to try the orc mod next. Trouble is that my fortress can run itself by now, as long as I remember to restart the booze and food-making jobs. Trying to make my captain the most epic in the world, currently at 80 kills I think.

By the way, does anyone know if mechanisms stop working after the fort is abandoned? As in, my waterwheel-powered waterfall will stop working? Second thing, what happens to the armor my warriors are walking around in? I want to leave a full set of adamantine armor and weapons for my adventurer (if I ever get that far).
I'm a wizard. We know these things.

In war, one should seek to take and hold the high ground. From there, the enemy's movements are clearly visible, and he will struggle just to reach you, let alone fight you. High orbit is the highest ground there is.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby The Sleeping Tyrant » Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:46 pm UTC

Chicostick wrote:It's worth about 200,000, and is currently being used to tend to all the wounded soldiers who keep hurting each other. My barracks is over 12x12, but they still manage to screw it up.


Did you train them in shield using, armor using, and wrestling before giving them weapons?
If not, it's a good idea to take their weapons away for now and just have them train wrestling (up to legendary, if you want them to be dedicated military, or up to accomplished if you want to be able to use them for other stuff).
Wrestling and shield using contribute very highly to their dodge chance, although I'm not sure if armor using helps at all, so it's best to train those up first, so you don't have soldiers cutting or smashing each other to pieces.

You should also give them the absolute best armor you can, making sure they're all wearing both chain mail and plate mail, steel if you have it, iron at the very least.

Basically, following these rules, I very rarely have any injuries. None from wrestling, and I've gotten dwarves up to master or higher in their weapon skill, after becoming legendary wrestlers, before any of them get hurt. By that point, the rest are so dangerous they can pick up the slack with no problems at all.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Xaddak » Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:31 am UTC

Actually, I once used Companion to give all of my military level 50 (17 is legendary, I think 22 is where it stops mattering how high it is) in Shield Use, Armor Use, and Wrestling.

Not two minutes later, one of them took a spear through the heart and instantly died. I quit out of frustration.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby The Sleeping Tyrant » Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:59 am UTC

Xaddak wrote:Actually, I once used Companion to give all of my military level 50 (17 is legendary, I think 22 is where it stops mattering how high it is) in Shield Use, Armor Use, and Wrestling.

Not two minutes later, one of them took a spear through the heart and instantly died. I quit out of frustration.


You just have terrible luck then. :P

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Xaddak » Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:12 am UTC

The Sleeping Tyrant wrote:
Xaddak wrote:Actually, I once used Companion to give all of my military level 50 (17 is legendary, I think 22 is where it stops mattering how high it is) in Shield Use, Armor Use, and Wrestling.

Not two minutes later, one of them took a spear through the heart and instantly died. I quit out of frustration.


You just have terrible luck then. :P


Oh, and I forgot to mention, they were all in masterwork steel plate armor with masterwork steel shields. So, what, 1/1000000000000000000000 odds?
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Chicostick » Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:22 am UTC

In an elaborite plan to pump out a chamber to salvage some gear in it, I managed to flood an entire floor of my fortress. (Damn those rivers!... no pun intended =P ) I managed to wall off the staircase, but the miners I had building walls in narrow areas kept building walls where they would do no good (aka, they were standing on the side the water was on) so I gave up and let them all drown. By remarkable coincidence, the only miners there that had any relationships were some lovers who all drowned together.

Then, in an attempt to drain out the chambers one at a time, I linked up a chamber close to the source of the water to a large passage heading right for a large circular chasm that resembles a magma pipe. The resulting waterfall is gigantic, and somehow a level about 7 below the start of the water has all flooded, and the force of the water seems to have crushed several troglodites. I went to look and about half of chasm was covered in blood.

I'm seeing if I can make all sides of the chasm have water pouring into it, and make a giant drain. I don't know what I'll use it for, but hey why not right?

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Rakysh » Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:58 am UTC

Spoiler:
Thadlerian wrote:Ah, finally! I can't believe how long time it takes to kill a fortress! Seriously, if you don't actively move to hurt your dwarves. Twice a maxed-out population went through the tantrum spiral and rebuilt. Only when I stopped food production and imports, things started ticking towards the end. Lack of food managed what sieges, water, magma and lunacy could not. And even then, it took a year until the last dwarf was gone. No wonder they say losing is fun; it's so difficult you feel you've won when you finally achieve it. Losing without intention is nearly impossible unless you're very unlucky or experimentally minded.

Anyway, now that that stupid aquarium is gone, time has come for my new super-project: The Great Brewery, as described in the wiki, under "Challenges".

This will be the one brewery to rule them all. I will aim to produce all kinds of booze (except Gutter Cruor and Sunshine), and export it large-scale. After a few years of running, the only acceptable payment will be gems, which will be hoarded in a huge... um, hoard somewhere safe.

The brewery itself will be constructed around a large vertical shaft in the ground. The top layer is for the four great brewable crops (pig tail, sweet pods, cave wheat, plump helmet), with other crops in greenhouses farther away. Layer below is exclusive storage for these plants respectively. Below that will be row upon row of stills, probably a hundred or so. And then there will be three or four levels of huge storages.

In the opposite direction, a magnificent tower will be erected. Some five-six z-levels up will be the trade depot (which will be connected to the undergroud storages by four narrow, free-standing staircase towers (symmetry is an issue here). The wagon-accessible route from the depot will be down a double spiralling ramp running down the shaft to its bottom, where it splits into guarded north- and southbound tunnels that surface far from the structure itself.

The important workers (brewers and planters) will have individual luxurious apartments somewhere, and there will be decent rooms for haulers and suchlike, as well as the for the security crew.

Let's see how this turns out. First challenge has presented itself already: Dark Gnomes stealing my booze. They must be punished severely.


This is decidedly awesome, but why no sunshine? It's the best. It's currently funding my upstairs fortress.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Phen » Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:27 am UTC

Chicostick wrote:In an elaborite plan to pump out a chamber to salvage some gear in it, I managed to flood an entire floor of my fortress. (Damn those rivers!... no pun intended =P ) I managed to wall off the staircase, but the miners I had building walls in narrow areas kept building walls where they would do no good (aka, they were standing on the side the water was on) so I gave up and let them all drown. By remarkable coincidence, the only miners there that had any relationships were some lovers who all drowned together.

Then, in an attempt to drain out the chambers one at a time, I linked up a chamber close to the source of the water to a large passage heading right for a large circular chasm that resembles a magma pipe. The resulting waterfall is gigantic, and somehow a level about 7 below the start of the water has all flooded, and the force of the water seems to have crushed several troglodites. I went to look and about half of chasm was covered in blood.

I'm seeing if I can make all sides of the chasm have water pouring into it, and make a giant drain. I don't know what I'll use it for, but hey why not right?

Builds doors instead of walls and make sure they're closed.
I'm a wizard. We know these things.

In war, one should seek to take and hold the high ground. From there, the enemy's movements are clearly visible, and he will struggle just to reach you, let alone fight you. High orbit is the highest ground there is.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Random832 » Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:32 am UTC

Xaddak wrote:
The Sleeping Tyrant wrote:
Xaddak wrote:Actually, I once used Companion to give all of my military level 50 (17 is legendary, I think 22 is where it stops mattering how high it is) in Shield Use, Armor Use, and Wrestling.

Not two minutes later, one of them took a spear through the heart and instantly died. I quit out of frustration.
You just have terrible luck then. :P
Oh, and I forgot to mention, they were all in masterwork steel plate armor with masterwork steel shields. So, what, 1/1000000000000000000000 odds?

Or maybe they can't ever actually get that high (i.e. it stops leveling up at 22 or so) and setting it to that caused an overflow condition.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Rakysh » Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:00 am UTC

No, they're infinite as far as anyone knows. You can keep getting more levels, just the words don't change. The effect carries on increasing.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Phen » Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:03 am UTC

I don't think you're right. As far as I know, it goes to 5+ legendary and stops there. Increases in toughness, agility and strength keep increasing though. That's how I remember it...
I'm a wizard. We know these things.

In war, one should seek to take and hold the high ground. From there, the enemy's movements are clearly visible, and he will struggle just to reach you, let alone fight you. High orbit is the highest ground there is.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Rakysh » Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:00 pm UTC

D'aw, you're right. Sorry.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Phen » Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:39 pm UTC

I doubt I'll be able to forgive you for this.
I'm a wizard. We know these things.

In war, one should seek to take and hold the high ground. From there, the enemy's movements are clearly visible, and he will struggle just to reach you, let alone fight you. High orbit is the highest ground there is.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby The Sleeping Tyrant » Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:55 pm UTC

Random832 wrote:
Xaddak wrote:
The Sleeping Tyrant wrote:
Xaddak wrote:Actually, I once used Companion to give all of my military level 50 (17 is legendary, I think 22 is where it stops mattering how high it is) in Shield Use, Armor Use, and Wrestling.

Not two minutes later, one of them took a spear through the heart and instantly died. I quit out of frustration.
You just have terrible luck then. :P
Oh, and I forgot to mention, they were all in masterwork steel plate armor with masterwork steel shields. So, what, 1/1000000000000000000000 odds?

Or maybe they can't ever actually get that high (i.e. it stops leveling up at 22 or so) and setting it to that caused an overflow condition.


[wild supposition] I don't think this would happen. I think Toady is storing those values in a single-byte container at least, so there probably won't be any overflow, and I doubt he would put in something just to screw with higher values.

Besides, if there was overflow, it's likely that it would end up less than legendary, so they'd show it.
So, I think the way it handles it is that the game doesn't ever level it up past 21 (legendary +5), but it won't break if you set it higher either, so maybe all the military skill stuff is based on the number of your level somehow?[\wild supposition]

@Xaddak: Yeah, pretty much.
I've basically come to expect stupid stuff like that to happen no matter what.



So, lately, I've been playing a string of fortresses. Most have just died because of FPS issues at around year 4 or 5.

One I got to year 2, and it was doing pretty well. I hadn't started with magma work yet, because I hate dealing with fire imps. Everything is going pretty decent, and I'd just started smoothing the floor of a colossal dining hall. Something like 40x60.
Autumn hits, and the caravan comes. The wagons pass by, because apparently they can't go over tiles that used to be pools. So, the merchants bring their mules to the depot. A good chunk of time passes before I start wondering where the liaison is.
Turns out, he's unconscious on the other side of the gorram map.

Get this, my ELF liaison is missing his left arm and ear. And I have no clue how it happened. And so every day he passes out or gets stunned and so makes almost no progress towards my fortress.
I quit because there was no way that was going to work. The caravan was going to leave before he even got to my fort, and then it would probably take him another season to get off the map. And he would be back next year too.

Moral of the story: elves are pansies, and if you get one as your liaison, it is going to end badly.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Yuri2356 » Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:35 pm UTC

The Sleeping Tyrant wrote:Get this, my ELF liaison is missing his left arm and ear. And I have no clue how it happened. And so every day he passes out or gets stunned and so makes almost no progress towards my fortress.
I quit because there was no way that was going to work. The caravan was going to leave before he even got to my fort, and then it would probably take him another season to get off the map. And he would be back next year too.

Moral of the story: elves are pansies, and if you get one as your liaison, it is going to end badly.

The liaison is a character who has things happen to them elsewhere in the world. This one just got in a fight at some point.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Xaddak » Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:40 pm UTC

Random832 wrote:
Xaddak wrote:
The Sleeping Tyrant wrote:
Xaddak wrote:Actually, I once used Companion to give all of my military level 50 (17 is legendary, I think 22 is where it stops mattering how high it is) in Shield Use, Armor Use, and Wrestling.

Not two minutes later, one of them took a spear through the heart and instantly died. I quit out of frustration.
You just have terrible luck then. :P
Oh, and I forgot to mention, they were all in masterwork steel plate armor with masterwork steel shields. So, what, 1/1000000000000000000000 odds?

Or maybe they can't ever actually get that high (i.e. it stops leveling up at 22 or so) and setting it to that caused an overflow condition.


Read the underline. =P

Now, that said: http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index. ... kill_ranks

Dwarf Fortress Wiki wrote:Although Legendary is the highest skill rank displayed, there are actually five skill rankings above it. These higher skill ranks are known to have an effect on item quality; a Legendary dwarf will make masterpiece items 15% of the time, on average, where a Legendary+5 dwarf will make masterpieces 27% of the time (and exceptional items the other 73% of the time). Skill beyond Legendary+5 does not increase the probability of creating a masterpiece item.


So, by extrapolation, we can assume having any more than Legendary + 5 doesn't affect the chances of dodging or anything any longer. If it doesn't and the Legendary + 5 cap only applies to crafting items, that only further reinforces me calling shenanigans on a level 50 shield/armor user with masterwork steel plate and shield taking a spear through the heart from a spear-dwarf who was probably less than level 10 at the time.

And no, I don't think it does what I think you are saying it does. What I think you are saying is that going past 22 loops it around, so 44 would be 22 again, and 50 would be 6 or so. I'm going to have to say "no" to this, since MOST of them were untouchable, only getting scratches at the worst that healed nigh-instantly. The one dwarf just got rocked pretty hard by unthinkable bad luck.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Chicostick » Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:56 pm UTC

Phen wrote:
Chicostick wrote:In an elaborite plan to pump out a chamber to salvage some gear in it, I managed to flood an entire floor of my fortress. (Damn those rivers!... no pun intended =P ) I managed to wall off the staircase, but the miners I had building walls in narrow areas kept building walls where they would do no good (aka, they were standing on the side the water was on) so I gave up and let them all drown. By remarkable coincidence, the only miners there that had any relationships were some lovers who all drowned together.

Then, in an attempt to drain out the chambers one at a time, I linked up a chamber close to the source of the water to a large passage heading right for a large circular chasm that resembles a magma pipe. The resulting waterfall is gigantic, and somehow a level about 7 below the start of the water has all flooded, and the force of the water seems to have crushed several troglodites. I went to look and about half of chasm was covered in blood.

I'm seeing if I can make all sides of the chasm have water pouring into it, and make a giant drain. I don't know what I'll use it for, but hey why not right?

Builds doors instead of walls and make sure they're closed.




The problem was the miners were sealed into that level, as the staircase was close to the source of all the water. So in an attempt to save at least my legendary miner, I wanted to have them wall off the last chamber, then mine their way back to the surface. I couldn't get any doors down into the area, trying to do so would have flooded the rest of my fortress. Unfortunately they're all morons, and no matter how hard I tried they didn't seem to get the concept of building a wall while standing on the opposite side of the water. Even if they were on the right side, they'd walk through the passage to the wrong side and then build it.

In the end I tried to frantically mine a passage at the bottom of a massive chamber I had made, then have them wall it in behind them. Only one miner decided to try mining, the others all stood around with "no job" on even though they all had only the mining skill enabled. The last miner tried up until the end, but drowned before I could wall it off.

Funnily enough, the quarters I had created for my captain of the guard was in that area, and even though none of it is accessable, he's still pretty happy about having it.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Thadlerian » Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:59 pm UTC

The Sleeping Tyrant wrote:
Xaddak wrote:Actually, I once used Companion to give all of my military level 50 (17 is legendary, I think 22 is where it stops mattering how high it is) in Shield Use, Armor Use, and Wrestling.

Not two minutes later, one of them took a spear through the heart and instantly died. I quit out of frustration.


You just have terrible luck then. :P

Or maybe you were actually playing Civilization III, and that unit was a tank.

Rakysh wrote:This is decidedly awesome, but why no sunshine? It's the best. It's currently funding my upstairs fortress.

I think sun berries can only be grown in good biomes. Either that, or that's the only place you can get the seeds. And my fortress is in an evil biome. And I can't recall seeing merchants bringing sun berry seeds.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby The Sleeping Tyrant » Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:19 pm UTC

Yuri2356 wrote:
The Sleeping Tyrant wrote:Get this, my ELF liaison is missing his left arm and ear. And I have no clue how it happened. And so every day he passes out or gets stunned and so makes almost no progress towards my fortress.
I quit because there was no way that was going to work. The caravan was going to leave before he even got to my fort, and then it would probably take him another season to get off the map. And he would be back next year too.

Moral of the story: elves are pansies, and if you get one as your liaison, it is going to end badly.

The liaison is a character who has things happen to them elsewhere in the world. This one just got in a fight at some point.


I figured as much, seeing as he had really high stats (ultra-mighty, extremely agile, super-elvely tough or something like that).
Although, about halfway through the season I got a message saying something about a thief stealing a left gauntlet. I didn't have any of those laying around. Do items on lost limbs become forbidden? Because the gauntlet was, apparently. Definitely wasn't mine, and I hadn't seen any goblins yet, so I'm thinking it was the elf's.
I think he might have just run into an elephant and lost his arm to it, but then I'm really surprise he didn't die from bleeding.

Thadlerian wrote:Or maybe you were actually playing Civilization III, and that unit was a tank.

That burnt my cheese.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Random832 » Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:53 pm UTC

The Sleeping Tyrant wrote:
Random832 wrote:Or maybe they can't ever actually get that high (i.e. it stops leveling up at 22 or so) and setting it to that caused an overflow condition.


[wild supposition] I don't think this would happen. I think Toady is storing those values in a single-byte container at least, so there probably won't be any overflow, and I doubt he would put in something just to screw with higher values.


If the calculation for dodge chance, damage, etc, involves multiplying it by something else and then adding it to something, and a core assumption of that calculation is that this value won't be over 22 and this other value won't be over 47 or whatever, then he wouldn't have to intentionally be screwing with other values. There's no point to using bignums here, and that's the only way you can guarantee there won't be an overflow.

Besides, if there was overflow, it's likely that it would end up less than legendary, so they'd show it.


I didn't say it was an overflow _of their level number_, i said overflow of some other calculation (i.e., the one that results in them getting killed).

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Sorting Algorithm » Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:31 pm UTC

So I'm modding drakes as mountianous wildlife and was hoping that when they die I could get them to leave behind lava instead of a corpse.
The tag "[ITEMCORPSE:LIQUID_MISC:NO_SUBTYPE:MAGMA:NO_MATGLOSS]" leaves nothing behind when it dies, neither a corpse, bones or magma.
I was wondering if anyone else had any ideas.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Chicostick » Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:20 pm UTC

I kept getting a strange error message involving the captain of the guard and a prisoner he was trying to cage. Instead of doing it, I kept getting "Wrong Justice State" spammed in my announcements.

Instead of figuring out what was wrong, I decided to drop the prisoner into a chasm. Seems to have worked :D

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby The Sleeping Tyrant » Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:45 am UTC

Random832 wrote:Stuff I didn't think of.


You're right. I assumed. My bad.
Then I guess it's possible, depending on how he's handled it.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Xaddak » Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:30 am UTC

Random832 wrote:
The Sleeping Tyrant wrote:
Random832 wrote:Or maybe they can't ever actually get that high (i.e. it stops leveling up at 22 or so) and setting it to that caused an overflow condition.


[wild supposition] I don't think this would happen. I think Toady is storing those values in a single-byte container at least, so there probably won't be any overflow, and I doubt he would put in something just to screw with higher values.


If the calculation for dodge chance, damage, etc, involves multiplying it by something else and then adding it to something, and a core assumption of that calculation is that this value won't be over 22 and this other value won't be over 47 or whatever, then he wouldn't have to intentionally be screwing with other values. There's no point to using bignums here, and that's the only way you can guarantee there won't be an overflow.

Besides, if there was overflow, it's likely that it would end up less than legendary, so they'd show it.


I didn't say it was an overflow _of their level number_, i said overflow of some other calculation (i.e., the one that results in them getting killed).


I'm still going to have to call shenanigans on that, because then a LOT of them would be dying, not getting scratches. It was phenomenally bad luck, not a funky calculation.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Random832 » Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:25 am UTC

Xaddak wrote:I'm still going to have to call shenanigans on that, because then a LOT of them would be dying, not getting scratches. It was phenomenally bad luck, not a funky calculation.


it could be right at the edge of the point where a different dice roll puts some intermediate calculation result into negative vs positive, or HUEG vs near-zero.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Xaddak » Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:16 pm UTC

Random832 wrote:
Xaddak wrote:I'm still going to have to call shenanigans on that, because then a LOT of them would be dying, not getting scratches. It was phenomenally bad luck, not a funky calculation.


it could be right at the edge of the point where a different dice roll puts some intermediate calculation result into negative vs positive, or HUEG vs near-zero.


Well, I'll admit, you've lost me. So at this point I'll have to say "maybe". But I still think it was just really, really bad luck that the one dwarf failed every possible save he could while the opposing dwarf got a critical hit, and so the first dwarf took a spear through the heart (to put it in D&D-esque terms).
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:54 pm UTC

Well.. were they sparring with Real Weapons, or with the crappy wooden ones that the Elves bring you?

Because.. really, having your sparring dwarves use Real Weapons is like setting up a firing range where you have targets and shooters on both sides. Sure, the shooters aren't trying to kill one another, but every once in a while someone misses.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Xaddak » Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:32 pm UTC

What elves? They didn't come see me in that fort. I don't think the humans did, either. Just goblins and dwarves.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Phen » Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:19 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Well.. were they sparring with Real Weapons, or with the crappy wooden ones that the Elves bring you?

Because.. really, having your sparring dwarves use Real Weapons is like setting up a firing range where you have targets and shooters on both sides. Sure, the shooters aren't trying to kill one another, but every once in a while someone misses.

Too much micromanagement. I only think I've lost one dwarf to it so far in my last fort. My eleete squad are so tought that they cannot be hurt by the weapons of mortals, anyhow.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Jun 08, 2009 5:15 pm UTC

What, you aren't producing Godweapons in the first place? :P
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Phen » Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:37 pm UTC

They don't get injured by the masterwork adamantine spears, either. As I said, too eleete. I mean, my captain of the guard isn't even scratched when I send him at a group of archers... Until the fateful day he catches the lucky bolt, I guess. Right now I'm just trying to maximize his kill count. It's at 80, but the problem is that half the squad manages to run away while he's killing the ones already knocked down. So I'm planning to make a wall all around the map with gates that I can close when they're all inside.

... Somehow, I don't think he'll ever shrug off a fireball despite all his toughness, so I'm still going to train up some more military before challenging the HFS for reals.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:12 pm UTC

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like the damage doesn't come from the fireball, but from the clothing that catches fire and proceeds to burn the hell out of the dwarves. Apparently they all missed that safety class on taking off burning cloaks and so on. So, if you wait long enough for all of the clothing to rot off......
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby The Sleeping Tyrant » Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:37 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Well.. were they sparring with Real Weapons, or with the crappy wooden ones that the Elves bring you?


Crap, I had meant to mention that, but completely forgot.
Silver or copper lowest quality weapons are just as nice, and have the added bonus of not needing elves.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Mo0man » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:35 pm UTC

Phen wrote: Until the fateful day he catches the lucky bolt, I guess. Right now I'm just trying to maximize his kill count. It's at 80, but the problem is that half the squad manages to run away while he's killing the ones already knocked down.

Try using cage traps to catch them all. After you do that, dig a pit with a door on one end, put your supersoldier inside and drop it. Set the level above as a dump, and dump them all inside the pit. For extra unfairness, steal all their items first. You can set it up as a gladiatorial arena, with spectators and everything. Make sure you remove all their bows first, otherwise your spectators might get shot
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