Ginger wrote:Yuri2356 wrote:Error of division. Mans are not a hivemind. Plenty of our interests lie in creating a just society where half of its members are not often subjected to grievous harm for arbitrary reasons. We'd be quite happy to help if the movement didn't insist that we don't and in fact can't exist, and instead started working out how to make use of their allies. It seems obvious that no man will support you when declare it to be so and thus alienate and enrage the ones who would.
Why should the women figure out how to rally the men to their cause? Why can't the men just act like decent human beings without prompting? That would teach those uppity womenfolk to realize that they have allies!
I'm sorry, but you seem to be doing that thing that a lot of people do, where they read things out of my words that I didn't put into them.
You're also doing that other thing where you allow only the existence of opposing extremes, while quite enthusiastically asserting that anyone who does not conform on all points to one of them, is consequently bound to the other.
Converting people to your ideology strengthens your position and weakens those which oppose you. There's a slice of THE MEN who are being decent people, and would be even more so if people would lead them towards better ways of acting. Giving them a positive direction will help correct the remaining problems with their behaviour and reduce the influence of the oppressive mindset of THE MEN. Snarling at them and banishing them from attempts to improve the world forces them back into maintaining the system, as they have nowhere else to go, now with the added problem of being rejected and scorned by the alternative to the present system. If the separatists have no problem with their rejection of THE MEN being in part self fulfilling they may by all means continue on their way. I certainly couldn't do anything to stop them.
But no, you force the collective them to act sweet and nice to the collective you so they can garner your approval and not provoke your rage, which is kind of the mindset that I would imagine a lesbian separatist would want to separate from don't you think?
The stance "not condemning half the population as innately and irredeemably villainous", does not imply acting "sweet and nice".
And that little accusation of abusive nature, born of ignoring context, is just the sort of thing that pushes ones perception of you from "Quite rightly mad at injustice", to "Blind Extremist".
The line of thought I sought to present was - "I sympathize with your cause and was going to try to help you, but when I stopped by for information you repeatedly ran me over with your car. This did not rest well with me and I have thought poorly of you and your movement hereafter." But no, there's only one reason that one of THE MEN could ever be the slightest bit irate over the actions of a free and liberated womyn and that's because he wants her to get back in the damn kitchen. Banish him to the wasteland and vaporise him from the herstories. Ignore all signs that he may have as much reason to be mad as any other persyn, these have been fabricated by agents of Goldstein.