Election in Canada this Spring

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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby Yakk » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:11 pm UTC

I also ran the numbers on "donations per seat".

They vary from the Infinity of the Greens, the < 10k of the Bloc, the ~45k of the Liberals up to the ~66k of the Conservative/NDPs.

It would be interesting to see the "donations per voter" stats actually. :)
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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby stevey_frac » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:22 pm UTC

That they have the most money, doesn't mean they are wrong.

I'd argue, although, probably unconvincingly to this group, that political donations are just another form of democracy at work, given the $1000 limit.

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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby Dauric » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:41 pm UTC

stevey_frac wrote:That they have the most money, doesn't mean they are wrong.

I'd argue, although, probably unconvincingly to this group, that political donations are just another form of democracy at work, given the $1000 limit.


So, if someone has less than $1000 to give to a candidate, say their discretionary income at the end of the month is $50 or so, does that mean that they get less voice/are less of a citizen than someone who('s maid) finds $1000 in their pockets every laundry-day?

And that's before dealing with loopholes in campaign finance laws, which favor those wealthy enough to hire lawyers to find them -and- donate money.

Now campaign finance rules are arguably better than not having any rules at all, but even in an ideal contribution-limit system it doesn't provide 1:1 representation.
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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby mike-l » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:42 pm UTC

stevey_frac wrote:That they have the most money, doesn't mean they are wrong.

I'd argue, although, probably unconvincingly to this group, that political donations are just another form of democracy at work, given the $1000 limit.


Given that people are upset over the cost of the election, which works out to about 10 bucks a head, I would say that donations of $1000 are not from an even representation of the population base.

Having said that, I don't think anyone is arguing that because the CPC is rich that this makes them wrong in any way. Having your cabinet cited for contempt of parliamant on the other hand, or changing press releases and official communications from 'The Government of Canada' to 'The Stephen Harper Government'....
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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby hanecter » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:56 pm UTC

Okay, like I said, I don't want to derail, so answer these at your leisure.

Can candidates spend their personal money on campaigns?

There's no true national election, correct? On election day, you vote for the candidate of your choosing for your riding only. You don't for PM, for example, right?

If not, how does the process of choosing a PM and other offices work?

For those that know US campaign politics, are elections similar in the amount of mudslinging and general asshattery by candidates?

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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby mike-l » Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:00 pm UTC

hanecter wrote:Okay, like I said, I don't want to derail, so answer these at your leisure.

It's been a long time since I took any actual courses on this, so if someone has more accurate answers, please feel free.

Can candidates spend their personal money on campaigns?
I'm actually not sure, I'll let someone else answer.

There's no true national election, correct? On election day, you vote for the candidate of your choosing for your riding only. You don't for PM, for example, right?

That's right. There are currently 308 seats, it changes relatively frequently though. Each person votes for the one associated to their geographic location. In reality, most people vote for the party though.

If not, how does the process of choosing a PM and other offices work?

Technically, the Queen (or her viceroy, the Governor General) picks them all. In reality, the leader of the party with the most seats is picked as PM and they choose their cabinet.

For those that know US campaign politics, are elections similar in the amount of mudslinging and general asshattery by candidates?

There certainly can be. I 'feel' like there's generally less, but it certainly exists, and is pretty prevelant between the leaders themselvs.
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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby Yakk » Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:13 pm UTC

I wasn't saying they are wrong because they are rich. I'm saying if you are curious why the discussion is framed by the CPC, and the media seems to follow CPC talking points, realize that the media is owned (which is a distinct problem), and that direct communication from the parties costs money (and the CPC has more money than the rest of the parties combined).

So you shouldn't be all that surprised that they dictate the discussion. If the newspapers endorse the CPC, and their editorial voice slants that way (because the owners of the newspapers are CPC supporters), and the CPC has a bigger ad budget than every other party combined, you'd expect that the media you consume will be slanted towards the CPC's positions.

As an idea:
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... tion,_2008
2008: 23 papers endorse conservatives (not including economist), 5 endorse any other single party (total, over all other parties).
2006: 23 papers endorse conservatives, 3 endorse any other single party (total, over all other parties).

This is in a nation where Conservative support is in the 30%-40% range, we have 82% newpaper support for the party, and ~60% political donation support.

The other source of funding for political parties comes from the 75 cents per Canadian per year handed to parties based on their vote share. This funding comes to about ~2/3 of the direct donations. The CPC tried to cut this earlier (and it was over this issue that the other parties threatened to form an alliance and take control over parliament, and Stephan prorogued parliament just before the opposition could put forward a motion to replace him).

In short: the media in Canada has a significant CPC bias, both in terms of airwave time spent and in terms of editorial slant. And this is because CPC supporters are more likely to open their wallets, and/or own newspapers, and use those tools to support their party. It is just something to keep in mind when you wonder why the media cycle seems to do the CPC's bidding.
hanecter wrote:Can candidates spend their personal money on campaigns?

I don't know of any exceptions to contributions based on self-funding. But I'm unsure.
There's no true national election, correct? On election day, you vote for the candidate of your choosing for your riding only. You don't for PM, for example, right?

You vote for a local candidate. Outside of some areas (like the Maritimes), much of the rhetoric is national.
If not, how does the process of choosing a PM and other offices work?
The Governor General picks the PM. Then parliament either approves or declines the choice. If the first choice doesn't work, the GG can pick others. If the GG thinks it isn't going to work at all, the GG dissolves parliament and calls for another election.

The GG is appointed by the Queen (of Canada -- or King) "on the advice on the PM" (at the time of appointment) -- in practice, the Queen is a rubber stamp -- and serves at the Queen's pleasure (I think) which is effectively the PM's pleasure (as the PM can ask the Queen to give the GG the boot).

Traditionally (which is stronger than law, naturally), the GG picks the leader of the party with the largest number of seats first, but I believe this has been not done once (where there was an alliance of other parties that had a majority). I believe there was a scandal when that happened, and the government didn't last long. This was many decades ago, if I remember rightly.

The GG can technically call an election at any point (and dissolve parliament), but in practice the GG only does so when the PM asks him (which is, again, Tradition). The election must occur within 5 years of the last one. If the government loses the confidence of parliament (which is a technical term, as well as a practical one), traditionally (see above) the PM asks the GG to dissolve parliament immediately. I am not aware of precedence of the PM not doing so.
For those that know US campaign politics, are elections similar in the amount of mudslinging and general asshattery by candidates?
At least an order of magnitude less? It has been getting worse recently. The last time serious mudslinging happened it cost the party who tried it a huge chunk of the vote (they made fun of the half-paralyzed face of the then-sitting PM).
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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:15 pm UTC

hanecter wrote:Okay, like I said, I don't want to derail, so answer these at your leisure.

Can candidates spend their personal money on campaigns?


It appears to be limited at $1000, the same as the limit for private donations to a campaign. Corporate donations are similar, although it might be $5000, I don't recall. There is also an upper limit on how much can be spent on a particular riding, and some rather arcane rules about how funds can be transferred between ridings. Political parties also receive public funding in proportion to their share of the popular vote.

There's no true national election, correct? On election day, you vote for the candidate of your choosing for your riding only. You don't for PM, for example, right?


Strictly speaking, this is correct. The parties choose their own leaders at a convention. In practice, many people vote for the party based on the qualities of the leader rather than their individual candidate. If you're from the United States, a good analogy is probably your Congressional elections: your Congressperson is representative of your riding, and the House Leader is the equivalent of our PM.

If not, how does the process of choosing a PM and other offices work?


The leader of the party is chosen from within their own party by a convention. The leader of the party with the most seats is generally selected as PM. Most other offices (cabinet ministers, etc.) are appointed by the PM upon winning the election. Cabinet ministers are almost always chosen from winning candidates of the party in power, although in principle they do not need to be (ie. they could be from other parties, or from the Senate). Many other important positions are appointed directly by the Prime Minister and have few restrictions on who they may be.

[edited for clarity]

For those that know US campaign politics, are elections similar in the amount of mudslinging and general asshattery by candidates?


Among the leaders, yes. On the riding level, not nearly so much. On the other hand, ridings aren't nearly as important in Canada as Congressional districts are. A member voting against their own party is extremely uncommon on any important matter.

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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby Antimony-120 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:52 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
hanecter wrote:Okay, like I said, I don't want to derail, so answer these at your leisure.

Can candidates spend their personal money on campaigns?


It appears to be limited at $1000, the same as the limit for private donations to a campaign. Corporate donations are similar, although it might be $5000, I don't recall. There is also an upper limit on how much can be spent on a particular riding, and some rather arcane rules about how funds can be transferred between ridings. Political parties also receive public funding in proportion to their share of the popular vote.


Which, incidentally, was one of the recent scandals for the Conservatives, the "in and out" scandal.

One of the things to know, as was mentioned earlier in the thread, is that for a long time Canada actually had 5 political parties, with (from approximate left to right) the NDP, Bloc, Liberal, Progressive Conservatives (PC), and Reform/Alliance.

The Liberals are traditionally the centre of Canadian politics, and have been the party in power for the vast majority of it's history (with various other parties punctuating, usually one of the conservative branches). However, in 2003-2004 the Progrssive Conservative and Canadian Alliance parties merged to form the Conservative Party of Canada (The alliance was the result of a previous half-successful merger of the PCs and the Reform party). This upset the balance, as now the left was split between 3 parties (NDP, Bloc, Liberal) while the right was united. Hits to the Liberal party from a Sponsorship Scandal in '04, and the fallout from an internal party fight between Jean Cretien and Paul Martin led many voters to turn to the NDP and Bloc.

This is further exacerbated by the rise of the Green Party of Canada, which hasn't had enough support to take a seat yet, but has split the vote resulting in Conservative wins in several ridings. Finally the Liberal Party's leadership was taken by a dark horse rider (Stephan Dion) who, much as I think he seemed like a nice guy with geniune goals and ideals, was about as useful as tits on a bull. The current leader Michael Ignatieff shows some signs of life, but has a lot to overcome.

This is not to say that everything has gone the way the Conservatives would like. While many voters did turn to the Conservatives after the Liberal Party took those hits, they haven't been able to get more than half the seats in the house of Commons (Called a majority government, given the strength of party rule and the fact that most things are passed by simple majority, such a position gives the Prime Minister and cabinet immense power. This is the normal state of affairs). Time and time again the voters have pulled back when it look like the Conservatives would get a majoirty.

Thus, the state of Politics in Canada right now is essentially that the majority of voters are left-wing, but the left is shattered and still rebuilding. Meanwhile the Right wing is united and led by a very politically savvy man named Stephen Harper, who has party discipline honed to a fine edge. This election has been coming for some time, but was precipitated by the Harper Cabinet being held in contempt of Parliament for not releasing details of legislation. It will come down to the question of whether Ignatieff can unite his party and pull back some of the voters that have gone to the Conservatives or NDP, versus the Conservatives attempts to keep the Liberals disorganized and out of the media loop.
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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby Le1bn1z » Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:08 am UTC

First, the ground rules:

Personal donations are capped at just over $1000 to as many riding associations/individual canidacies as you please, and another $1000 to national campaign/campaigns.

Corporate and union donations to political parties are banned, because they are bad. We have democracy, we don't sell it.

As for the "oooooohhhh, but the leaders are so unappealing" whinging going on, all I can say is that my Conservative buddies will be glad to see their strategy is working. They've made a concerted effort to make this campaign personal, lowering the tone and smearing Ignatieff as an individual (with accusations which are factually untrue and quotes wildly out of context).

However, funnily enough, left-leaning voters are most susceptible to this sort of campaign. Their strategy last election was voter suppression. Tune out most of the electorate, and fanatics make up the majority of the voter turn out. The CPC has the most fanatics, so..... victory!

Full disclosure, I'm working on a Green Campaign in a 50% + Liberal riding, trying to rally a strong protest vote to send a message that just because long-view voters sometimes have to compromise, doesn't mean we want to, and the other parties shouldn't ignore the giant issues of fiscal and environmental sustainability waiting to bite us on the ass in the not-so-distant future.

Still, with that caveat, here are a few things to be excited about:

1. Liberal Party's "Open Government" platform, which includes:
■Immediately restore the long-form census;
■Make as many government datasets as possible available to the public online free of
charge at opendata.gc.ca in an open and searchable format, starting with Statistics
Canada data, including data from the long-form census;
■Post all Access to Information requests, responses, and response times online at
accesstoinformation.gc.ca; and
■Make information on government grants, contributions and contracts available through
a searchable, online database at accountablespending.gc.ca.


Its an immediately deliverable way to improve democratic accountability.

2. Liberal Party's education pledge, to redirect post-secondary education funding to target low income families, compensating for rising tuition and economic pressure on working families by helping them with a major expense, while helping to bring in the next generation of leaders and level the playing field a little at the same time.

3. All opposition parties offering support to families who care for the elderly or disabled at home.

4. Green Party demand to make clean air and, especially, water a Charter right, making those who irresponsibly pollute the air and water of others liable for their actions. (Too many governments allow friendly corporations to poison the drinking water of communities and get away with it. Clean water is a constant challenge for many rural First Nations, and Tony Clement and Jim Flaherty were the ones who gave us Walkerton, after all.)

5. Greens, Liberals and NDP all calling Harper's bluff on corporate tax cuts when healthcare funding is about to be an issue again, tax and fee pressures on ordinary Canadians are increasing and the government can't afford to meet its fundamental constitutional commitments on First Nations school boards, environmental, health and safety inspections and support for veterans, not to mention that whole giant deficit thing.

Each of the opposition parties has a whole lot to offer, and there will be more in coming days. Stop holding politicians to such a bizarrely high standard, its creepy, and look at the real and positive change they can offer.

Besides, this is a terrible, terrible government. Wildly incompetent, horrifically contemptuous of democracy and blissfully unaccountable. We deserve at least competent leadership. Jack Layton's NDP and Ignatieff's Liberals are both more than capable of giving that.

Also, in Iggy's defense, he's been eating his Wheaties. He called the Tories out on the corporate cut BS, on lying to Parliament and (I don't think he gets enough credit for this) when the Seperatists had their bizarre and, frankly, racist smear campaign against Sikhs, and called for the barring of male MPs of that faith, including sitting ones, from the House of Commons and National Assembly, everyone basically turned and coughed.

Until Iggy showed up in Quebec and denounced the move in French, that is. Calling out the PLQ and PQ on reasonable accomodation and minority rights in Quebec... that takes balls.

So cut the man a break and don't swallow what Harper's shoveling. The man may not have my vote, but he's demonstrated himself to be a fine leader in the liberal tradition.
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Re: Election in Socialist Republic of OurHatistan this Sprin

Postby Triangle_Man » Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:39 am UTC

Hey guys. I just saw an attack ad against the Liberal Party on television.

Looks like Election Time is just around the corner...
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Re: Election in Socialist Republic of OurHatistan this Sprin

Postby aleflamedyud » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:42 am UTC

I'm no Harper supporter by any means, but this is just kind of dickish.

Spoiler:
Amnesty slams Canada's recent rights record
Amnesty criticizes what it sees as tilt toward Israel and defunding of non-governmental agencies like Kairos

Canada's global reputation as a human rights champion has been eroded in recent years, according to a scathing Amnesty International report that doesn't specifically name Stephen Harper's Conservatives but raises frequent criticisms of foreign policy under the Tories.

The report, issued Thursday, is called Getting Back on the "Rights" Track. The criticisms it raises of foreign policy under the Tories include what Amnesty describes as a tilt toward Israel in the Middle East and the defunding of non-governmental agencies, such as Kairos, that have publicly criticized the Tories or sided with Palestinians.

Amnesty calls on political party leaders to use the federal election campaign to restore Canada's commitment to rights at home and abroad.

"No longer the champion, more and more Canada is perceived to be a country that is reticent to take a consistently strong stand for human rights. Sometimes Canada now is also seen as part of the problem, not the solution," said Amnesty Secretary General Salil Shetty.

"There has been erosion of Canada's past policies, including a principled and non-partisan reputation in the Middle East."

The report says the government's "unflinching refusal" to criticize Israel's human rights record has eroded Canada's reputation in the Middle East.

"Serious violations committed by the Israeli government have on occasion been described as 'a measured response' and Canada's voice was noticeably moderate when hundreds of thousands of Sri Lankan Tamils faced grave peril in early 2009," the report said.

Harper used the phrase "measured response" in July 2006 to describe Israel's decision to bomb Lebanon in retaliation for the kidnapping of two Israeli soldiers by Hezbollah terrorists based in that country.

That comment provoked the ire of Arab and Muslim Canadians and was widely interpreted as a sign the Conservatives had begun taking sides the Middle East conflict.

"Traditionally Canada approached those debates in a careful and principled manner and garnered a reputation as non-partisan," the report states.

"That reputation has, however, been completely eroded in recent years as Canada has now adopted a policy of consistently voting against resolutions at both the UN Human Rights Council and the UN General Assembly that criticize Israel's human rights record," it adds.

"That has been the case even in the midst of UN criticism of the widespread human rights violations that occurred during the Israeli military campaigns in south Lebanon in 2006 and Gaza in 2009."

The government has defended its Middle East stance, saying it believes in a non-violent end to the dispute and the creation of a separate Palestinian state that would live peacefully with its Israeli neighbour.

The Conservatives had been given advance notice of some of the report's contents but did not reply.

'Canada's human rights movement feels under siege'
At home, the report points to "devastating cuts" in funding to Canadian agencies such as Kairos and the Canadian Council for International Co-operation for publicly disagreeing with government policy.

"On the home front, Canada's human rights movement feels under siege," the report states.

"Never before have Canadian organizations worried so much that there might be consequences if they disagree publicly with the government on a human rights concern." The report also notes the government's decision to not repatriate Toronto-born convicted terrorist Omar Khadr from the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay.

Also blasts areas of Tory-Liberal agreement
But the report also offers criticism in areas where the Conservatives and Liberals have been aligned on foreign policy in recent years.

It criticizes the defeat in Parliament last fall of a bill that would have created mandatory accountability for Canadian corporations abroad.

The bill died with the support of several high-profile Liberal opposition members.

The report also criticizes the "fluctuations and unevenness" in Canada's relations with China over the last 20 years that have lead to an inconsistent approach in raising human rights concerns with its communist leaders.

Between 1993 and 2005, the Liberal governments of Jean Chrétien and Paul Martin faced accusations that they were more interested in pursuing trade with China than pushing a rights agenda.

"Our critique certainly is based on the actions of the government in the last few years," Shetty said.

"If you look at the history of various governments in this country and the way they have responded to international human rights requirements, I think it's a mixed bag. We've had Liberal governments that haven't delivered, we've had Conservative governments that haven't delivered."

TL;DR: "If you disagree with us Amnesty staff about THAT COUNTRY, you hate human rights and kick puppies." If Amnesty wants to meddle in partisan politics, they should run for the elections themselves.
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Re: Election in Socialist Republic of OurHatistan this Sprin

Postby LaserGuy » Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:06 am UTC

I expect Harper is likely to consider that report a badge of honour.

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Re: Election in Socialist Republic o' OurHatistan this Sprin

Postby Antimony-120 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:36 pm UTC

Something I've sometimes thought of making for the board to explain Canadian politics, done better by somebody else.

http://wheretheystand.ca/

Note: I have minor disagreements with both placement and presentation of a couple pieces, but that is not the point, they do have references if you're curious as to how the placements were arrived at.
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Re: Election in Socialist Republic o' OurHatistan this Sprin

Postby jadeonly » Sat Apr 02, 2011 6:31 pm UTC

Antimony-120 wrote:Something I've sometimes thought o' making for the board to explain Canadian politics, done better by somebody else.

http://wheretheystand.ca/

Note: I have minor disagreements with both placement and presentation o' a couple pieces, but that is not the point, they do have references if you're curious as to how the placements were arrived at.


Thanks, I made that site. If you have suggestions for better/missing references or more accurate rankings please share.

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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby PhoenixEnigma » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:03 pm UTC

I'm going to bump this because the election is in less than a week, and things are looking kind of interesting now - the NDP are polling in second place, and not all that far behind the dropping Conservatives. Chart under the spoiler outlines it pretty well:
Spoiler:
Image
There's a few ways this could play out - I don't think we'll see a Conservative majority thank god and with the Liberals in third, I can't see them forming a government either. Depending on how votes get split, it could be possible for the Conservatives to win more seats than anyone else, but immediately face a confidence vote (like, say, the budget, which was never passed), be voted down, and replaced with a coalition of some form instead of immediately going back to the polls. That would be....something, for sure.
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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby hanecter » Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:39 am UTC

What caused the Liberal/NDP swap? That looked rather abrupt.

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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby jesseewiak » Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:34 am UTC

hanecter wrote:What caused the Liberal/NDP swap? That looked rather abrupt.


Basically, the Conservatives attacked the Liberal leader relentlessly all while the NDP Leader continued to campaign well. Add in the fact that from what I've read, Quebecers are sort of fed up with the ineffectiveness of the BQ, they're swapping to the NDP, which has many of the same policy positions. In addition, it's sort of a snowball effect. The Liberal's basically used to say voting for the NDP was throwing your vote away, but the NDP's surge in Quebec led to more interest led to a rise in the polls nationally that led to more interest and so on. The interesting this will be, now the Liberals and Conservatives are turning their guns on the NDP. Last time this happened (1988), it led to an NDP collapse in the final days of the campaign.

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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby Yakk » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:58 am UTC

Liberals have a Quebec problem -- namely, in the last succession referendum, Liberals in government spent money on the "no" campaign without sufficient checks and balances, leading to a non-trivial amount of money being misspent (and much of it going to "friends" of the Liberal party in Quebec). The amount in question was what, 5 million dollars?

In any case, it looked bad - and it looked particularly bad in Quebec.

The Conservatives have a Quebec problem, in that their non-Quebec base is seriously anti-Quebec exceptionalism. This makes their pro-Quebec exceptionalism stance inside Quebec hard to pull off (and in fact, the PC (the predecessor party to the current Conservatives, which the current CPC ate within the last decade) parties members where the vast majority of the source of the "first wave" of MPs that formed the Bloc Quebecois, the federal wing of their secessionist party.

And when the two major parties are both written off, voting for the BQ becomes tempting.

So when the NDP started being competent in Quebec, that opened up the possibility of the NDP capturing a whole bunch of seats that the Liberals and Conservatives had nearly written off as belonging to the Bloc. That could easily be a 50+ seat harvest for the NDP. Which could be enough to boost the NDP past the Liberals in the House. Which guarantees the NDP Official opposition, and 2nd crack at forming a government if the Conservatives throne speech is declined. Which boosts NDP credibility elsewhere...
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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby Jessica » Mon May 02, 2011 3:30 pm UTC

Election day today!

Make sure you don't tweet results today because there is a fine... yay!

Hoping to vote later today.
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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby PhoenixEnigma » Mon May 02, 2011 3:35 pm UTC

Jessica wrote:Election day today!

Make sure you don't tweet results today because there is a fine... yay!

Hoping to vote later today.

Also, make sure you go and VOTE!!!
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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Tue May 03, 2011 12:25 am UTC

PhoenixEnigma wrote:
Jessica wrote:Election day today!

Make sure you don't tweet results today because there is a fine... yay!

Hoping to vote later today.

Also, make sure you go and VOTE!!!

And don't vote Harper! He broke federal election law this morning!

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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby Stellazira » Tue May 03, 2011 2:04 am UTC

BC polling stations closed a few minutes ago so networks are starting to show numbers.

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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby Triangle_Man » Tue May 03, 2011 2:29 am UTC

From the looks of it, we could be seeing another manority conservative government with an opposition led by the NDP.

This isn't much of a change, but it should be an interesting one.
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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby nitePhyyre » Tue May 03, 2011 2:48 am UTC

Hmmm...

Pros: NDP had a huge surge. They are for the first time in second place.

Cons: Conservative majority. So it doesn't really matter who is in second place.
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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby PhoenixEnigma » Tue May 03, 2011 2:52 am UTC

Yep, looks like they've probably got a majority. Someone remind me how you can win an election called because you were in contempt of parliment, again? :roll:
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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby Marauder_Pilot » Tue May 03, 2011 3:17 am UTC

Mainly because Iggy is a putz. (And that's not an opinion based on Conservative attack ads.)

They've been calling an election every time they can't beat a vote, they've been proposing an coalition with the Bloc (Which pisses off everybody), and they kept that gaping money hole that is the Long Gun Registry in place.

I'll admit, I'm of a center-right bent, and voted Conservative. I'm not a big fan of Harper, but he was the guy who kept us out of a massive recession like the rest of the world. He may be a robot, and a bit more of an American-style Conservative than I like, but I'll take him over Iggy any day.

I was personally hoping for a Conservative minority with the NDP as the official opposition. A weak majority with a strong NDP opposition isn't bad, though. The thing I like the MOST here is that the Liberals have gotten SO badly thrashed that they'll finally pull their heads out of their asses and get people in there that are actually viable candidates.

Also: Fuck the Bloc. Fuck 'em right into oblivion.

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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby nitePhyyre » Tue May 03, 2011 3:45 am UTC

Marauder_Pilot wrote:I'm not a big fan of Harper, but he was the guy who kept us out of a massive recession like the rest of the world. He may be a robot, and a bit more of an American-style Conservative than I like, but I'll take him over Iggy any day.

Harper wants more american-style policies. The very policies that caused the recession in the first place.
Canada wasn't hit hard by the economic recession because we don't have american style policies.
So in essence, you voted for the conservatives because you like the policies of the liberal government that came before them. And the party you voted for is trying to get rid of those policies you like. Good job.

You got spun. Don't feel bad, its what politicians do.

PhoenixEnigma wrote:Yep, looks like they've probably got a majority. Someone remind me how you can win an election called because you were in contempt of parliment, again? :roll:

See above.

What really sucks is how they can win a majority with ~40% of the popular vote.
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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby tzar1990 » Tue May 03, 2011 4:17 am UTC

nitePhyyre wrote:What really sucks is how they can win a majority with ~40% of the popular vote.


Yeah, I really wish the left would form a coalition to prevent stuff like that, given that the NDP and Liberals together had around 50% of the vote.

Really, though, the best way to prevent the conservatives from getting a majority in the future would be to create a Canadian branch of the Tea Party, and split their vote.

This kind of thing is why I wish we had proportional representation.
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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby Triangle_Man » Tue May 03, 2011 5:13 am UTC

I'm really disappointed and still confused by the conflicting stories, but I get the feeling that Stephen Harper isn't the most suitable leader for the country right now.

I hope the Conservatives don't screw up.

It should also be noted that the Conservatives won despite being in contempt of parliament because Stephen Harper convinced the majority of voters that the alternative choices would be even worse for Canada somehow.
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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby Marauder_Pilot » Tue May 03, 2011 5:24 am UTC

nitePhyyre wrote:So in essence, you voted for the conservatives because you like the policies of the liberal government that came before them. And the party you voted for is trying to get rid of those policies you like. Good job.

You got spun. Don't feel bad, its what politicians do.


Wait, so instituting spending programs entirely-and I mean years-after the Paul Martin Liberal government, one famous for being terrible, was ousted, is all Liberal policies? Sound reasoning there, and speaking of spin...

The party favoring investment in energy and mineral development, simultaneously reducing military spending yet increasing its capability by replacing outdated equipment requiring a massive output of man-hours to keep operational (IE, the entire Air Force and the better part of the Navy), the ones in favour of decreasing corporate tax to encourage business development (Fun fact-business tax applies to small business, too! Supplies, supplies.) and the only ones with a proven recent track record of keeping their promises regarding health care spending gets my vote.

Do I like their social policies? Not really. But Canada is hardly socially bankrupt as it is-well ahead of the curve, actually-and it's not going anywhere backwards, not with over 100 NDP seats. I'll take a sound economy, because I'm a big fan of having a job.

The Liberals lost because nobody wants a coalition, especially not with the Bloc. (But the Bloc's gone, good riddance to bad separatist, shit-stirring rubbish)

EDIT: And it wasn't 'American-style politics' that caused a recession. It was lack of regulation regarding the financial markets and poor lending practices that started it-something that Harper has repeatedly spoken loudly against. He's not out to reform the banking system, so we're not going to start our own American-style hole under him. And the spending he imposed kept us from being dragged into America's financial black hole.

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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby Kulantan » Tue May 03, 2011 5:28 am UTC

Mighty Jalapeno wrote:And don't vote Harper! He broke federal election law this morning!

Here is a link for those whose media outlets are still talking about some guy getting shot.
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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby Marauder_Pilot » Tue May 03, 2011 5:34 am UTC

As I understand it (I could be wrong, this is just how it was explained to me in politics class in uni), that only applies to official ads run by the party, IE, anything with an 'Endorsed by the Whateverfuck Party of Canada' at the end, not to people just chatting in a radio interview.

As for the bit about voter fraud, I've heard the same thing being done against every party-my bet is that there's just a bunch of isolated assholes.

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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby poxic » Tue May 03, 2011 5:47 am UTC

Dammit. I did NOT want a Conservative majority.

Goddammit.

Damn damn damn us all to damnation of damnableness.

Fuck.
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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby ginadagny » Tue May 03, 2011 5:50 am UTC

Poxic - my thoughts exactly. I am so pissed at the moment.

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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby PhoenixEnigma » Tue May 03, 2011 6:10 am UTC

I'm not particularly angry, myself, although I consider this pretty much a worst-case outcome (fuck a conservative majority, so hard, and I don't know the NDP have the political experience to be a strong Opposition - although I'd love to be proven wrong). I'm more disappointed that this happened, and really. fucking. scared. Between how Harper runs his party and the shit they've already tried to pull with a minority, I don't want to see the next few years.

I guess, somewhat objectively, this is going to be an interesting turning point. Two fairly reputable parties got completely trashed - the Bloc is all but dead, and the Liberals are barely more than bit players now, while the NDP are (or may be, it's too soon to judge for sure) a serious force and the Green party have finally been somewhat legitimized. Small comfort :|
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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby Marauder_Pilot » Tue May 03, 2011 6:24 am UTC

As a not-at-all serious sidenote, look at this picture of Harper.

Image

Irrespective of what you think of his policy, he is one creepy-looking bastard. That look just screams 'I am going to eat this kitten immediately after this picture is finished.'

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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby LtNOWIS » Tue May 03, 2011 9:46 am UTC

Is there a reason the Bloc Québécois lost 90% of their seats? Or is that just due to left-wing vote splitting? I haven't been following this too closely.

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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby Chen » Tue May 03, 2011 11:41 am UTC

Marauder_Pilot wrote:The Liberals lost because nobody wants a coalition, especially not with the Bloc. (But the Bloc's gone, good riddance to bad separatist, shit-stirring rubbish)


Eh the Bloc isn't the real separatist driving force though. Its the PQ (the provincial party) thats the one calling the referendums and all. Though less money to the Bloc is nice in that it reduces the funds they have to help with the separation bullshit.

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Re: Election in Canada this Spring

Postby Yakk » Tue May 03, 2011 12:20 pm UTC

LtNOWIS wrote:Is there a reason the Bloc Québécois lost 90% of their seats? Or is that just due to left-wing vote splitting? I haven't been following this too closely.

Quebec remains pissed at both the Conservatives and Liberals, and decided that the NDP is a viable choice. BQ was winning "by default".

On the plus side, I won an election betting pool.
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