[V] The Terminator Mafia - Town Win

[webby]

I guess possible reasons the town/scum splits seems slightly more generous than usual (it's 7/2 and the vanilla games I've played have been 5/2, 9/3 and 8/4 but with lots of town power roles) could be:

1. Nearly all the town are Sarah Connors, and hence town is short on power roles.
2. There are few enough Sarah Connors that there's a chance of all the Sarah Connors being killed.
3. The mafia have extra powers, such as role-block, one-shot unblockable kill etc.
4. There is a serial killer.

But I don't think 7/2 is unusual for a vanilla game without many power roles, especially when it's a closed set-up so it can't be broken by a mass-claim. I think we can reasonably safely assume that as a vanilla game, the power roles are likely to come from cop, doctor, vig (but I think the 7/2 split would make town too overpowered with a vig), tracker and role-blocker, although we can't assume we have any of these.

[slbub]

Something to consider is how close to the movie is this? I has two terminators but as much as I see there isn't anything else that is different. if this is true enough there would be three Sara Connors and two other vanilla town, potentially. So who are the roles, that is, if they exist. It also surprises me that the kill for the treminators isn't more like 6 or 7, ya know due to their almost invincibility, oh well I'll take what ever advantage I can get.

[eajik]

I think it'd be more likely that there are sparce mafia roles, giving its a newbie game. But to recap on most of the speculation; There is possibly a cop in either Hal or Kyle, and Kyle might have a doctor role as well. ALL Sarah Connor's are assumed to be vanilla town, save possibly the -real- one. Terminators are obviously mafia.

It also surprises me that the kill for the treminators isn't more like 6 or 7, ya know due to their almost invincibility, oh well I'll take what ever advantage I can get.

To slbub, I don't think this makes much sense, mainly because that would be a really, really long, and basically futile game. But I think I might be misinterpreting your post- 6-7 of what?

And... I'm assuming Vifam's vote doesn't count, seeing the game hadn't started.

[slbub]

6 to 7 votes for a kill, I do agree that it would drag the game out longer but then again it is quite hard to kill a terminator.

Oh well you gotta out weigh time with flavory type whatevers.

I would also assume that the vote doesn't count, all the same though, if he wanted the vote then he can renew it, speaking of vote-ness...

Could we have some votals, peas?

[cjdrum]

Is it really too hard to count one vote?

Vifam voted for Tinman42. That's it.


Anyway, I am completely flavourblind, minus the obvious Terminator, Schwarzenegger and "I'll be back".
So I can't really help in that sense

But I'll make sure I say stuff that helps later, or whatever!
Let's go!

[Gopher of Pern]

You really need votals? Well, here you go:

Votals: NONE

Happy?

[NecklaceOfShadow]

Yes, I feel pretty happy.

So... is there any more that we can do today aside from mass speculation? As fun as it is, it doesn't seem to be getting us anywhere at the moment.

[Robot_Raptor]

Yes, I feel pretty happy.

So... is there any more that we can do today aside from mass speculation? As fun as it is, it doesn't seem to be getting us anywhere at the moment.

We could mass roleclaim?

Hell, I'll start, I'm the doctor, and thanks to my ability to Timey-Wimey and Spacey-Wacey I can change all of your roles at any point in the game.

[DaBigCheez]

[DaBigCheez]

Or, to put it another way (spoilered image to avoid cluttering up thread, looking is fine):

Spoiler:

+2 Aperture Science Collaboration Points for the Doctor Who reference, -10 Aperture Science Collaboration Points for getting me all worried that you were *actually* claiming doctor at the start of D1/proposing a massclaim in this setup

[Robot_Raptor]

Or, to put it another way (spoilered image to avoid cluttering up thread, looking is fine):

Spoiler:

+2 Aperture Science Collaboration Points for the Doctor Who reference, -10 Aperture Science Collaboration Points for getting me all worried that you were *actually* claiming doctor at the start of D1/proposing a massclaim in this setup

Silly cheez, i'm not that stupid .... or am I?

[Tinman42]

Is it weird that I think GOP is Scum because, despite being the MOD this game, he was scum last game?

The last (and only other) game I played started taking off after a few questions were asked to the group as a whole. Some people refused to answer and such, and there wasn't lot of useful information taken from it, but it got people talking and lead to an eventual lynch, so here we go.

1: Do you like being town or scum more and why?
2: What is your favorite roll in this game?
3: How many other Mafia Games have you played?


1: I have only been town and enjoyed it, but I would like to try scum, being able to scheme with other people sounds fun.
2: the last game I played I was the cop, so I guess thats my favorite. Vig sounds fun though
3: I have only played one other game.

Hopefully others answer and we get some accusations, and if not that, at least some chatter.

[DaBigCheez]

Ah, the good old random-questioning stage...because discussion is good even when we don't care about the actual answers.

1) I prefer being Town - it feels like being a cunning sleuth. Scum seems more like trying to not get entangled in your web of lies, which seems like it would get rather tiring.
2) Favorite role is "anything with a mason group". I like being able to talk to other people I know I can trust - I think it's much more useful than just about any other power, in the long run.
3) I think I'm coming up on about the half-dozen mark.

I'll add one of my own:

4) Would you have qualms about lynching a player for very infrequent posts (passive-lurking)? Posts consistently very lacking in content (active-lurking)?
Answer to 4) Passive-lurking is more a job for the mods, but active-lurking is something that gets my eyebrows furrowed suspiciously. It's a weak scumtell, and I'm somewhat prone to equivocation myself sometimes, but in the absence of something strong to go on I will definitely go for an active-lurker.

[cjdrum]

Random Questioning is very not-often-used around here, so it's been hard for everyone to adjust to it

But I'll answer the questions all the same.

1: Do you like being town or scum more and why?
2: What is your favorite roll in this game?
3: How many other Mafia Games have you played?

1. Town, because scum is haaarrrd... But I do like being Town, because I don't remember the last time I won as scum - probably never.
2. In this game? No one knows any roles except their own and that the Terminators exist. So I'm gonna have to say my role is my favourite.
3. Do I have to count? It's over a dozen, but since I feel obliged, I counted - 15 games here, 5 games over at mafiascum.

Cheez's 4. I wouldn't lynch someone who gets onto the site inconsistently - especially if they have good reason. I would lynch someone who can post elsewhere on the forum, but not consistently here. I would lynch someone who consistently parrots or adds nothing to the conversation, while still trying to look like they're helping.

[webby]

1: Do you like being town or scum more and why?
2: What is your favorite roll in this game?
3: How many other Mafia Games have you played?

1. I've (still!) only ever been town, so I'd be interested in playing scum. I think I would like a mason or scum role where I'd have people I know am on my team. I guess we sort of had that in Sheriff of Nottingham when we had a small group of almost confirmed townies. Independent sounds like it would be fun for a change as well.
2. Sausage please. (But what cjdrum said)
3. Dethy, C9++, Sheriff, Crush, C9, just about to start Resistance. I guess this is my 6th game. Pretty vanilla type ones so far.
4. As I've said before, all else being equal I'd lynch the more lurky player, simply because there's less information about them available for later in the game.

[NecklaceOfShadow]

3. This is my first mafia game. Yay?

2. From a purely theoretical standpoint, the independent and assist characters are the ones that seem to be most fun. I mean... either you go, not really caring if either side wins or loses or you're able to act in the most magnanimous way possible in order to help a good cause. The former speaks to my anarchist, the latter to my humanist.

1. I don't know;I have no point of comparison between the two!

[eajik]

...Well, okay then.

1. In online mafia, I've always been town. However, when I've played it IRL, I like being independent, or town w/powers. Being independent, you're out to win for yourself, so it's an interesting game, while being townie and being able to -do- something is always nice.
2. Really, just what cjdrum said.
3. DN:L, Inception, and Homestar Scummer. However, I got replaced in the first and last, so.
4. ...Er. In previous games, I wasn't able to post much due to off-site commitments, so, I'd say it depends if they're online and not posting, versus offline and posting when they can. However, people who 'lurk' and post, generally I find suspicious.

[cjdrum]

Look at webby and eajik's answer to 2. Back to my answer to 4. Now back at their answers, and back to mine.

Sadly...


Eh, whatever. I just like the blatant "Yeah, I agree"ing

[slbub]

I will answer these questions later, getting yelled at to vacume right now.

Nice webby i enjoy a sense of humor, but don't be an jerk.

[eajik]

Well. I see the irony of that situation. Sorry for not being able to comment on that further, but.

And, I'm making this post saying that I will not be here until next saturday as well. Sorry 'bout that.

[Gopher of Pern]

Deadline Approaches! Roughly 35 hours til Deadline.

Still no Votals.

[NecklaceOfShadow]

//_<

I forgot to answer the fourth question, didn't I? Blast it.

4) Lynching someone for passive-lurking is something with which I'm not all that comfortable, really. It just doesn't seem fair if someone hasn't been able to make much of a case for themselves either way and they're lynched anyways. Active-lurking... I'm a bit more predisposed to lynch someone because of that, but it'd still be nice to take caution before doing so.

Is it necessary to lynch someone by the end of the day?

I'm not sure if there's really enough information to go on right now...

[webby]

I missed that we had a deadline.

So we have 35 hours to decide a lynch and almost nothing to go on. I'll have a quick look for players who are lurking, what everyone's done so far and remind myself who's in the game.

Spoilered for length (if it's in the game thread, everyone is allowed to read it)

Spoiler:

1 - Tinman42 - questions to the mod asking what special roles there are etc., not much of a reaction to random vote, speculation about whether terminators have extra power, more role speculation, says that role speculation is not very helpful, but that it's better than nothing, asks random questions (before I started this I was ready to call Ibarra out for being a lurker, but turns out he's not actually in the game and it was tinman asking the questions )

Overall, very good start, continuing on the improvement seen as the previous game went along. Looking to promote discussion and is acting pro-town.


2 - Robot_Raptor - Joke post claiming The Doctor, says he's not stupid. That's all

Robot_Raptor, I know you got away with acting like this as town last game, but this game we have two extra players so can afford one more lynch. 35 hours before deadline, on a day 1 without much discussion, a player who is hard to read and not helping town at all is a good lynch candidate. Please post more, or I will vote for you if no better candidate comes up.


3 - Vifam - joke random vote for Tinman, doesn't like running around in circles figuring out roles, asked to make a contribution, doesn't.

Vifam, see what I told Robot_Raptor.


4 - slbub - starts off lurky, but has posted more recently. Some flavour-spec. Will answer questions later, getting yelled to to vacuum.

slbub, would like you to post more. I don't think slbub is as bad as Vifam and Robot_Raptor, because it's clear that the other two have been around from their joke-posting, so they could have posted more if they wanted to. slbub fits more into the passive lurker category and has been better over the last couple of days.


5 - Eajik - One role-spec post, answers the questions and then is going away for a week.

Not particularly happy with this, but I guess we'll have to look at eajik when he gets back.


6 - NecklaceOfShadow - flavour-spec, says it's better to talk than be silent, says mass speculation doesn't get us anywhere, answers questions, asks if we have to lynch someone today, because there doesn't seem to be enough to go on.

Necklace, no-lynch is generally a bad idea in games like this. Even a wrong lynch is better than no-lynch. With no-lynch we'll be in exactly the same position as we are now except with one townie less, ie we'll still have very little to go on. It tends to be from votes and how people react to other people looking like getting lynched that tells us who the scum are. For example, in the last game I played, I picked out both scum at least partly from the fact that whenever a certain player looked in threat of being lynched, the player who turned out to be his scumbuddy looked to move the lynch to somebody else.

That of course ignores the possibility of an extra cop result, but the cop often isn't really as useful as you might think it is, especially as they might get nightkilled.


7 - cjdrum - Nothing early, but he was modding his own game. More recently, says he's flavourblind, answers questions, points out mine and eajik's 'parroting'.

I'll give him a bit of a pass given he's just finished modding his game. An experienced player, he doesn't need to be told that he needs to post more content.


8 - webby - It is accepted practice not to analyse yourself, because you can't be objective.


9 - DaBigCheez - starts off day with some reasonable role-spec, hoping it will kick-start discussion, reminds that the only roles we want to become public are the Terminators', jokes with R_R about The Doctor claim, slightly cynical comment about RQS that I don't disagree with.

Not much to go on here, what there has been has been reasonable.

So right now, in the absence of anything better, I want to lynch Robot_Raptor or Vifam. You have a bit more than a day to change my mind.

[Gopher of Pern]

Is it necessary to lynch someone by the end of the day?

It is not neccessary to lynch. You may vote No Lynch if you like.
At deadline, the person with the most votes on them will be lynched. A draw results in No Lynch.

[cjdrum]

Okay, about that analysis - looking good, I think. I'll get to doing my own, but so far yours is looking alright

Also, will attempt to post more now that Sea Nine just ended.

Analysis INCOMIIIING!
(in a bit - I've got a class now :/ )

[slbub]

Sorry about the wait but I am afraid that I might only have more bad news. my computer has had the nasty habit of turning off without anyone telling it to so we are trying to set it back to factory default, but it has even refused to do that, so... ...yeah

In other news I think that the analysis is decent and thankfully not too long but it is a bit vauge at parts.

webby wrote:

Robot_Raptor, I know you got away with acting like this as town last game, but this game we have two extra players so can afford one more lynch. 35 hours before deadline, on a day 1 without much discussion, a player who is hard to read and not helping town at all is a good lynch candidate. Please post more, or I will vote for you if no better candidate comes up.

To what game is this refering to?

[webby]

Sorry about the wait but I am afraid that I might only have more bad news. my computer has had the nasty habit of turning off without anyone telling it to so we are trying to set it back to factory default, but it has even refused to do that, so... ...yeah

In other news I think that the analysis is decent and thankfully not too long but it is a bit vauge at parts.

webby wrote:

Robot_Raptor, I know you got away with acting like this as town last game, but this game we have two extra players so can afford one more lynch. 35 hours before deadline, on a day 1 without much discussion, a player who is hard to read and not helping town at all is a good lynch candidate. Please post more, or I will vote for you if no better candidate comes up.

To what game is this refering to?

Sailors of Sea Nine.

Yes I'm aware of the vagueness, it's a bit hard when there's so little to go off.

[slbub]

Sure, fully understood.

[slbub]

Hey, since we are waiting for more annalisi what are peoples plans for the summer? You know, besides mafia...

[cjdrum]

Okay! Going alphabetically, if that's okay! Change it in your mind if you have to!

1. DaBigCheez:

Spoiler:

11 posts

1) Conning firms
2) Suggests that questions will not be answered - they then are, but I see where he was coming from
3) They then are, but I see where he was coming from
4) Rolespec! Does seem to forget that it's a Vanilla game for a bit there
5) Continuation
6) Continuation
7) Says that he's trying to get discussion going
8) Continuation of 4? Stating the obvious, really
9) N/A
10) N/A
11) Answers questions, asks question

Summary: 11 posts, 4 or 5 with content. Slight lean active lurker, but still contributing nonetheless.

2. eajik:

Spoiler:

4 posts

1) Confirms
2) Rolespec
3) Answers questions
4) Will not post for a week.

Summary: 4 posts, maybe 2 with content. Would like more from eajik, but this seems to be his usual play. Probably wouldn't lynch him today, but may consider it later if no other targets arrive.

3. NecklaceOfShadow:

Spoiler:

7 posts

1) Confirms. Note: Actually doesn't confirm - says will do it later. Hasn't yet.
2) Pre-game stuff
3) Questions Cheez's role spread. Refutes Tinman42's "Does not know they are a Terminator" comment
4) Suggests talking instead of guessing: +2 ASCP
5) And again: -2 ASCP
6) Answers questions... backwards?
7) Answers final question with a fairly good answer - again mentions that we are getting nowhere!

Summary: 7 posts, probably 4 with unique content. Not sure what to make here - probably slightly Town if anything.

4. Robot_Raptor:

Spoiler:

3 posts

1) Confirms
2) Joke posting
3) Another joke?

Summary: 3 posts. No content.
I was modding the other game he was Town in (Sailors of Sea Nine), and he did something like this at the start - really nothing with any content. He then came out with... something with a bit more content, but general knowledge.
This seems ever so slightly different, so I'm going to go slightly scummy here.

5. slbub:

Spoiler:

7 posts

1) Confirms
2) Asks if we can PM each other - slbub, if you're reading this: In any game, it's assumed that you cannot PM each other if it is not explicitly stated.
3) Pre-game stuff
4) Is this a joke? Says that Terminators should have 6-7 votes for a lynch. Asks how similar to the movie the game might be.
5) Asks for votals, rather than asking if Vifam's vote counted. I didn't quite get what it was for in my first read-through
6) Must vacuum
7) Very "vauge" post itself

Summary: 7 posts, not entirely sure of the content level. Is attempting at generating some discussion (in a good way), so I'll put him kind of Townish.

6. Tinman42:

Spoiler:

8 posts

1) Confirms
2) Asks some general questions about the setup. Also takes up BigNose's old profession of capitalizing the word "mod"
3) N/A
4) Joking post, right?
5) Rolespec (which does go against the non-bastardry thing, but it's definitely an attempt )
6) Does a bit of spec on the roles, but nothing that really hasn't been said earlier
7) Asks Vifam to post content
8) Asks questions. One ridiculous

Summary: 8 posts, mostly asking stuff about the game. Hard to read, will go with neutral for now. Possible scum here, but I don't think it's likely.

7. Vifam:

Spoiler:

5 posts

1) Confirms
2) Random vote
3) Reasoning for random vote
4) Reasoning for the existence of the random vote
5) Says the game is going nowhere. Leaves.

Summary: 5 posts. NO content. Would like to see a lot more content here. Slightly lurky, but not enough for a lynch just yet.

8. webby:

Spoiler:

5 posts

1) Confirms
2) Spec about 7/2 split
3) Answers questions, satisfactory attempt. B minus
4) Does a good analysis. May be a bit "vauge", but is a lot of effort nonetheless.
5) N/A

Summary: 5 posts, 2 with content, 1 with a LOT of content. Going fairly Town here.

So, from all of this:
Town
cjdrum
webby
NecklaceOfShadow
slbub
Tinman42
eajik
DaBigCheez
Vifam
Robot_Raptor
Scummy

Problem is, I don't think Robot_Raptor is the absolute best lynch target.

(if discussion does not come, Vifam will be my vote, as they have the most solid evidence against them - Robot_Raptor and even DBC are possible scumminess approaching)


Ninja'd double by slbub. Not content, so not worth analysing

(also, I believe the term is "analyses" - I think. Look it up)

[Gopher of Pern]

Hey, since we are waiting for more annalisi what are peoples plans for the summer? You know, besides mafia...

I am afraid that I will have to go back on my promise to not be a bastard, and be a bastard. No conversation of summer plans may be made in this thread, not while I'm freezing my ass off in winter!

25 Hours til Deadline. Still no Votals.

Please note, that this is a joke. There are no consequences for said discussion. I will just be slightly miffed

[webby]

I am afraid that I will have to go back on my promise to not be a bastard, and be a bastard. No conversation of summer plans may be made in this thread, not while I'm freezing my ass off in winter!

25 Hours til Deadline. Still no Votals.

It's not that bad! I was up in your part of the world yesterday and it was nice and sunny and warm. *British genes*

Not happy that people aren't posting. Also, if you're not going to be online again before deadline, vote - it's the pro-town thing to do. I'm going to vote in the morning, after giving Robot_Raptor and Vifam a chance to post.

[webby]

Chance given, Robot_Raptor was online last night and posting in other threads, but not here.

Vote: Robot_Raptor

I'm picking him over Vifam because I don't think there's much between them, and this one could potentially give info about cjdrum (if Robot_Raptor comes up scum, I think we should be very suspicious of cjdrum, while Robot_Raptor coming up town would make me think cjdrum is likely town).

I'll change my vote if Robot_Raptor comes and makes a decent post.

[webby]

EBWOP: And by last night, I mean a few hours ago.

[webby]

Am I the only one in this game?

*quadruple post*

Four hours until deadline, get your votes in!

[cjdrum]

Oh. Yeah.

I'm going to vote Robot_Raptor.

Being the most scummy and all, and then not posting here when called the most scummy...


Okay, let's go. I should be on at deadline if something arises.


vote: Robot_Raptor

[DaBigCheez]

Oh my...for some reason, I thought the deadline was tomorrow, not tonight. I guess I'll have to assemble my thoughts more quickly!

cjdrum posted a lengthful and contentful analysis.
webby's been making frequent and good contributions, as seems to be hir MO.
eajik's posts are bugging me a bit - getting a fairly strong active-lurker vibe.
Robot_Raptor's been posting zilch for content, and fewer walls of accusatory text than in C9 where he was town. Not sure what that means though.
slbub seems to be making genuine efforts to contribute, if not putting forth a whole lot of content.
NecklaceOfShadow isn't really making a ton of original contributions, but is volunteering info fairly readily.
Vifam has contributed...well, nothing, while at the same time berating us for not contributing.
Tinman's in kind of the same boat as NoS - not a ton of original content, but cooperating nicely.

My current suspicions slider:

Spoiler:

=====SCUM=====
Vifam
eajik
Robot_Raptor
====NEUTRAL=====
Tinman
NecklaceOfShadow
slbub
webby
cjdrum
=====TOWN=====

So, yeah. I don't really *object* to a R_R lynch, but I think I'd prefer Vifam or eajik. As such:

Vote: Vifam

If others agree, they can vote with me - and if not, and R_R winds up going down at deadline, I won't complain.

[NecklaceOfShadow]

Okay. At the moment, there are a bit less than three hours until the deadline.

Mass baseless-speculation ahoy~!

Spoiler:

We have nine players.

Three of them have voted already, resulting in: (R_R, Vifam) == (2, 1).

Now, eajik will be gone for the next few days, so we have four voted/incapacitated and five free votes

As it's about 1:30 in the morning where Robot_Raptor is at the moment, I'm not sure if he'll be here in time to save himself. For the sake of hypothesis, make that five v/i and four free.

Vifam... Vifam hasn't actually been on the fora since 14 June. Hir only posts were in this thread and the sign-ups for it. I'm not sure if ze'll actually be back. six v/i and three free.

I'm not particularly sure if either slbub or Tinman are going to be on soon.

Ties are determined by random chance, it seems, but I'd feel bad if Vifam got lynched if ze genuinely can't access a computer or something along those lines.

So... yeah.

VOTE: Robot_Raptor

[Gopher of Pern]

Night is falling. Everyone is bored and restless. A whole day stuck here, in this dump of a cop station, with only crappy coffee and donuts as sustenance, is no-ones idea of a good time.
Another detective pokes his head in, glances around the room, then looks at Hal.

“Wasn’t there 1 more of you in here last time I checked?”

Everyone suddenly realises that Robot_Raptor is gone.

Robot_Raptor has been lynched.

Votals:
Robot_Raptor - 3 (Webby, cjdrum, NecklaceOfShadow)
Vifam - 1 (DaBigCheez)

It is now Night 1. Night will end in 2 days time (7pm AEST Thursday, or 9am EST Thursday) Please pm me your night actions in bold. If your actions haven't been given to me by then, you will forfeit your action.

Vifam will be modprodded. If they have not replied by the above deadline, they will be replaced.

Please do not post in the thread during night, unless you are asking me a question.

[Gopher of Pern]

Roband is now replacing Vifam.

Night 1 ends in 24 hours and 30 minutes.