The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Bacon Workshop

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby mosc » Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:24 pm UTC

The mace is nice to pair with azura's star because you can charge the mace with the souls you capture basically using it's soul capture ability to keep the other two abilities constantly powered up.

It is only a 14 Damage base mace though, which negates a lot of the reason for USING a mace in the first place. Ebony is 16 base damage. Given the same smithing upgrading, ebony will always be 14% more damage. Especially when you can put two enchantment slots on your own enchantments and when 14% added damage will eclipse the damage from any enchantment you'd make anyway, the mace of molag bal really starts to lag behind.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SirBryghtside » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:34 pm UTC

Does anyone know how I can change Aela's bow? I found an Ebony one in a Dwemer Ruin, and she's still using the base hunting one even though I gave it to her. Can't take the base one off either - it's weird, seeing as she uses Dawnbreaker and Spellbreaker in close combat.

I'm playing on PC, so I can do any console wizardry that's necessary.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:47 pm UTC

Bows and followers don't go together, really. From what I've read, but not tested, your follower either uses the ammo you give them OR a bow you give them. They'll pretty much always use the ammo, but only use the bow about half the time.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby mosc » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:00 am UTC

Pick a follower who doesn't default with a bow as their main combat weapon. Then, give them a bow. Then, pickpocket their starting bow off of them. If you get in combat and they do pick your new bow, you can then pickpocket the starting bow without the use of the "pickpocket equipped weapon" perk. Anyway, once you have it out of their inventory, it's not a permanent fix. It will sometimes come back but this doesn't happen frequently.

Remember that archery skill doesn't affect damage very much. Bow damage and arrow damage are more important. The choice between a 100 skill archer with an unmodified hunting bow vs a 20 skill archer with daedric stuff thats been smith'd up a bit is not even close.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Vaniver » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:15 am UTC

Adam H wrote:I'd like it if when you kill an essential NPC, a notification pops up that says which quests you fail, so you know to reload (or not). Maybe keep track of which quests you screwed up in your journal. There'd be some unrealistic stuff that happens when quests can't be completed or started (like if ulfrich dies when attacking whiterun, the game wouldn't let you finish that quest) but... you can reload. I'm ok with being allowed to break the game as long as I know that I broke the game.

Is it reasonable to hope for a mod to do this? Or are there too many quests and essential NPCs?
I don't think I'll get tired of saying this, but that's how Morrowind worked. It is plausible that you'll get a mod that has you just fail those quests immediately, rather than popping up a notification.

Note that this can be troublesome when, say, a dragon murders Delphine and now you've lost the game main quest.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby gmalivuk » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:10 pm UTC

Lower-level bows fire much faster, in exchange for low damage, and thus might be the better choice anyway for a follower without perfect aim. High-level ammo is more worth it, especially because they don't actually consume it.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby broken_escalator » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:14 pm UTC

Aww man, I didn't realize they don't consume ammo. I gave my follower ~600 iron arrows so that I wouldn't have to worry about restocking them. >.<

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby emceng » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:35 pm UTC

Yeah, I hope the Crimson nirnroot chick didn't have any more quests for me. She stopped talking to me after a dragon murdered her sister.

Man, last night was rough though. I had started having an easy time, kicking ass left and right. Then I ran into this dungeon. Groups of 3 death lords at a time. 4 plus the boss at the end. Holy crap was that hard.

I did get my smithing to 100 though last night. Woohoo, first 100 skill!. Close seconds were sneak at 95 and one handed at 90. Is there an easy way to bump enchanting? I enchanted 30 silver rings with some crap enchantment using petty gems last night, and got about 9 skill from it. Getting it much higher is going to take loads of cash and time.

Also, do certain skills not count as much toward level progression? In the 9 skill-ups from enchanting, I didn't level up.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby An Enraged Platypus » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:50 pm UTC

My followers behave oddly. Erandur seems to use a hunting bow from time to time, yet never has one in his inventory if I check, and has ranged spells. He also switches between is default robes and the upgrade I gave him completely at random. I really miss Faendal now, might go back and break my own "no cheating" rules to resurrect him by console.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:55 pm UTC

broken_escalator wrote:Aww man, I didn't realize they don't consume ammo. I gave my follower ~600 iron arrows so that I wouldn't have to worry about restocking them. >.<
But.. they have iron by default.... Seriously, though - if you hand a follower a couple of ebony arrows, and just start looting things they shoot to death, you eventually end up with an overabundance of ebony arrows. Same thing with those two guards in Solitude who practice archery by Castle Dour. Pickpocket their arrows, reverse pickpocket special arrows on to them (2 or 3 say) and then hang out, watching them send arrow after arrow into the target. Loot them all. Takes bloody forever, but you can get as many arrows as you care to stand around and take.

emceng wrote:Yeah, I hope the Crimson nirnroot chick didn't have any more quests for me. She stopped talking to me after a dragon murdered her sister.

Man, last night was rough though. I had started having an easy time, kicking ass left and right. Then I ran into this dungeon. Groups of 3 death lords at a time. 4 plus the boss at the end. Holy crap was that hard.

I did get my smithing to 100 though last night. Woohoo, first 100 skill!. Close seconds were sneak at 95 and one handed at 90. Is there an easy way to bump enchanting? I enchanted 30 silver rings with some crap enchantment using petty gems last night, and got about 9 skill from it. Getting it much higher is going to take loads of cash and time.

Also, do certain skills not count as much toward level progression? In the 9 skill-ups from enchanting, I didn't level up.

Level progression is a graduated scale and the closer you get to leveling depends on how high the skill is.

Lemme explain.

Since I don't know the exact numbers, let's say that it takes 100 experience points to go from Level 3 to Level 4. Your One-Handed skill is at 25. You level it to 26, you get 26 experience points. Your block is 15 and you level it, and you get 16 experience points, for a total of 41. Sneaking is 30, and you get it to 31, so you're now at 72. And your smithing was at 22, so you level it up to 23. You're now at 95 experience points, so just about anything you level at this point will push you over the edge.

But at level 20, it takes.. I dunno, 400 experience to level up. Your 95 sneak, when you level it, will add 96 points to the total. Which moves the progress bar along quite a bit. Your enchanting, at 18? You get that to 19 and the bar will barely move because when you're trying to get to 400, 19 is shit.

Anyway, hope that helps explain how you level in the game. When you level a skill, that amount is applied to your experience points, and when those hit a certain amount, you level up.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Dark567 » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:03 pm UTC

emceng wrote:I did get my smithing to 100 though last night. Woohoo, first 100 skill!. Close seconds were sneak at 95 and one handed at 90. Is there an easy way to bump enchanting? I enchanted 30 silver rings with some crap enchantment using petty gems last night, and got about 9 skill from it. Getting it much higher is going to take loads of cash and time.
Recharging enchantments causes enchanting to go up. So I just run around killing with the Mace of Molag Bal, soul trap something, and then spend it to recharge the Mace of Molag Bal. Ta Dah! Very quick enchantment experience.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby gmalivuk » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:35 pm UTC

Everything with enchanting is nicer once you have Azura's Star (well, everything except enchanting multiple things at once, like if you have a potion and it's important to use it efficiently). I never worry about my enchanted things wearing out, because I can always recharge them with the Star and then trap another soul from the very next thing I kill.

(I started playing oblivion the other day, and am bummed at how whiny everyone is about necromancy. Black souls are the best, since they're always Grand and I kill at least as many humanoids as everything else put together.)
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Xanthir » Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:38 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Since I don't know the exact numbers, let's say that it takes 100 experience points to go from Level 3 to Level 4. Your One-Handed skill is at 25. You level it to 26, you get 26 experience points. Your block is 15 and you level it, and you get 16 experience points, for a total of 41. Sneaking is 30, and you get it to 31, so you're now at 72. And your smithing was at 22, so you level it up to 23. You're now at 95 experience points, so just about anything you level at this point will push you over the edge.

But at level 20, it takes.. I dunno, 400 experience to level up. Your 95 sneak, when you level it, will add 96 points to the total. Which moves the progress bar along quite a bit. Your enchanting, at 18? You get that to 19 and the bar will barely move because when you're trying to get to 400, 19 is shit.

Anyway, hope that helps explain how you level in the game. When you level a skill, that amount is applied to your experience points, and when those hit a certain amount, you level up.

It's either 100+25/level, or 125+25/level, I forget.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SirBryghtside » Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:47 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Bows and followers don't go together, really. From what I've read, but not tested, your follower either uses the ammo you give them OR a bow you give them. They'll pretty much always use the ammo, but only use the bow about half the time.

That sucks. Oh well, she's not that bad.
mosc wrote:Pick a follower who doesn't default with a bow as their main combat weapon. Then, give them a bow. Then, pickpocket their starting bow off of them. If you get in combat and they do pick your new bow, you can then pickpocket the starting bow without the use of the "pickpocket equipped weapon" perk. Anyway, once you have it out of their inventory, it's not a permanent fix. It will sometimes come back but this doesn't happen frequently.

Remember that archery skill doesn't affect damage very much. Bow damage and arrow damage are more important. The choice between a 100 skill archer with an unmodified hunting bow vs a 20 skill archer with daedric stuff thats been smith'd up a bit is not even close.

Sounds reasonable, but Aela's... kind of my wife. I'd feel bad ditching her for the first Dunmer I met in a bar :P

Unrelated note: Is she actually in the game? Are her clothes even in the game? I haven't seen her yet.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby An Enraged Platypus » Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:09 pm UTC

SirBryghtside wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:Bows and followers don't go together, really. From what I've read, but not tested, your follower either uses the ammo you give them OR a bow you give them. They'll pretty much always use the ammo, but only use the bow about half the time.

That sucks. Oh well, she's not that bad.
mosc wrote:Pick a follower who doesn't default with a bow as their main combat weapon. Then, give them a bow. Then, pickpocket their starting bow off of them. If you get in combat and they do pick your new bow, you can then pickpocket the starting bow without the use of the "pickpocket equipped weapon" perk. Anyway, once you have it out of their inventory, it's not a permanent fix. It will sometimes come back but this doesn't happen frequently.

Remember that archery skill doesn't affect damage very much. Bow damage and arrow damage are more important. The choice between a 100 skill archer with an unmodified hunting bow vs a 20 skill archer with daedric stuff thats been smith'd up a bit is not even close.

Sounds reasonable, but Aela's... kind of my wife. I'd feel bad ditching her for the first Dunmer I met in a bar :P

Unrelated note: Is she actually in the game? Are her clothes even in the game? I haven't seen her yet.


Clothes definitely are, for example the lady that endlessly emotes "What's the matter, can't stand the sight of a strong Nord woman?" in Whiterun wears them. I can't say I recognise the inn she's in from the game, though.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SirBryghtside » Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:20 pm UTC

The women in Whiterun always confused me... they're the only people who talk about sexism in the whole of Skyrim. Hell, the only sexist person I can think of in TES was that one misandrist Telvanni in Morrowind.

Guess that's what happens to you if you spend your whole life wandering around 3 shops 'learning the merchant's trade' :P

(edited to remove idiocy)
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Jahoclave » Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:41 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Wow, for what was supposed to be hard, I two shotted the priest guy and Alduin was a joke.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:18 pm UTC

SirBryghtside wrote:The women in Whiterun always confused me... they're the only people who talk about sexism in the whole of Skyrim. Hell, the only sexist person I can think of in TES was that one misandrist Telvanni in Morrowind.

Guess that's what happens to you if you spend your whole life wandering around 3 shops 'learning the merchant's trade' :P

(edited to remove idiocy)
Arguably, by the time you get anywhere else, most people are aware that you're the Dragonborn and as such, not to be fucked with.

That said, I've fought plenty of bandit chiefs who were female, several Jarls are women, and lots of women have positions of respect and so on. Hell, even in Whiterun there's a dude name Ulfberth War-Bear who's all "Wha? Me? Nah, I just sell the shit. My wife's the bad-ass making the stuff."
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby emceng » Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:48 pm UTC

Ok, what's with wood chopping? I get mining and cooking. Why the crap would you chop wood? If there some magical wood out there that isn't worth only 2 gp?
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby broken_escalator » Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:56 pm UTC

You need it for some smithing recipes. So far that seems to be about it from my experience.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Box Boy » Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:58 pm UTC

You can sell it and use it to improve iron bows, I think.


Also, speaking of sexism in Skyrim, I did a quick look around and found surprisingly few complaints about it compared to the rest of the series - and then I got to this little number.

I gotta say, eh, wow. I've done the Dark Brotherhood, and completely disagree, but the mere fact someone who seems (fairly) intelligent from a (very quick) look at the rest of their blog thinks this sorta has me wondering if anyone else agrees with any of it. So, eh, thoughts on sexism in the DB?
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Dark567 » Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:10 pm UTC

Box Boy wrote:I gotta say, eh, wow. I've done the Dark Brotherhood, and complete disagree, but the mere fact someone who seems (fairly) intelligent from a (very quick) look at the rest of their blog thinks this sorta has me wondering if anyone else agrees with any of it. So, eh, thoughts on sexism in the DB?
Spoiler'd for DB(and Thieves) quests:
Spoiler:
I totally don't see it. Honestly the part of taking over power of the DB from a women.... You take over the power of every guild from the top person, sometimes including having to kill them due to betrayal(i.e. the thieves guild).
Honestly it did sadden me that I was forced to kill Astrid, as I thought she was the coolest NPC in all of Skyrim. I would have married her if the option was available.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Microscopic cog » Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:12 pm UTC

While I read it all I could hear was this raving lunatic behind his computer screen, screaming "This is like, really important guise!"

Spoiler:
I really liked Astrid, and I can feel him in that way, just look a couple of pages back, where someone stated how oddly it was that the DB, a cult of assasins, was so damn likeable. I mean, I really, genuinely liked them too. And I genuinely was upset about the plottwist. But hey, it's just a game and it's just a questline. Not a conspiracy novel against women.

I'm pretty sure the reaction of being genuinely upset with them dying, was exactly what Bethesda planned to do. They needed to find a way to kill most of them, while keeping the DB alive, thus this scenario was created. They probably had some thoughts about the Night Mother returning before making it too.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Adam H » Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:24 pm UTC

Box Boy wrote:I gotta say, eh, wow. I've done the Dark Brotherhood, and complete disagree, but the mere fact someone who seems (fairly) intelligent from a (very quick) look at the rest of their blog thinks this sorta has me wondering if anyone else agrees with any of it. So, eh, thoughts on sexism in the DB?
My assassin char is female, so... that kind of nullifies most of the argument, no?
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby An Enraged Platypus » Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:47 pm UTC

emceng wrote:Ok, what's with wood chopping? I get mining and cooking. Why the crap would you chop wood? If there some magical wood out there that isn't worth only 2 gp?


Money, mostly. It's so you can get money at low, low, low level without thievery or crafting professions. I had to do it on my non-thief mage, think you get full value for each bit of firewood and make 2 a pass, I made 1,500g before my patience wore out.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Wiskie » Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:53 pm UTC

I began my Skyrim experience by choosing a direction and walking straight until I couldn't go any further. After that, I chose a new direction and started walking--discovering all the dungeons and forts along the way.

As beautiful as Skyrim's environment is, I feel like this "breadth before depth" approach was the wrong way to play. I mean, I'm level 17 with about 10-15 hours of playtime and I've been to everywhere but Markarth and the surrounding area. Now, whenever I begin a quest (I've only done a handful so far) and it tells me to go someplace, it's like the allure of discovering something new is gone. I've become jaded in a game where that isn't supposed to happen. It also feels like there's a lot of wolves and trolls that I have to fight before I actually happen upon something out of the ordinary.

Not to mention the fact that I made an Argonian guy whose face is a spitting image of Jar Jar and now I'm stuck with him. :(

Spoiler:
Having no previous knowledge of the Dark Brotherhood, randomly happening upon one of those black doors with the volume turned all the way up scared the willies out of me...


Also, hi.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SirBryghtside » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:22 pm UTC

mmm
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby An Enraged Platypus » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:24 pm UTC

Box Boy wrote:You can sell it and use it to improve iron bows, I think.


Also, speaking of sexism in Skyrim, I did a quick look around and found surprisingly few complaints about it compared to the rest of the series - and then I got to this little number.

I gotta say, eh, wow. I've done the Dark Brotherhood, and complete disagree, but the mere fact someone who seems (fairly) intelligent from a (very quick) look at the rest of their blog thinks this sorta has me wondering if anyone else agrees with any of it. So, eh, thoughts on sexism in the DB?



No way. Here's why:

Spoiler:
Veezara gets mortally wounded by Cicero before Astrid buys the farm. Cicero attacks, and tries to kill, a Shadow-Scale before Astrid dies as she does; insofar as he is a Shadow-Scale he is a non-listener/speaker assassin's guild personified. The whole thing is simply a Night Mother/non-Night Mother conflict. On the subject of the Night Mother, she is a she. The Night Mother, not Cicero, is the ultimate driving force there, both with you and with Cicero. Ultimately the Night Mother and Astrid are fighting, not [a male player character] and Cicero against Astrid. It's two women opposing each other.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby IcedT » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:03 am UTC

Wiskie wrote:As beautiful as Skyrim's environment is, I feel like this "breadth before depth" approach was the wrong way to play. I mean, I'm level 17 with about 10-15 hours of playtime and I've been to everywhere but Markarth and the surrounding area. Now, whenever I begin a quest (I've only done a handful so far) and it tells me to go someplace, it's like the allure of discovering something new is gone. I've become jaded in a game where that isn't supposed to happen. It also feels like there's a lot of wolves and trolls that I have to fight before I actually happen upon something out of the ordinary.

I've found it's a lot more fun to pick a city to operate out of and focus on doing the quests and activities connected with that one, then move on to another city and focus on that one. Or focus on dragonslaying, or on digging through barrows. Just wandering around arbitrarily makes it really difficult to make any kind of narrative out of the things you do.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Vaniver » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:54 am UTC

Box Boy wrote:Also, speaking of sexism in Skyrim, I did a quick look around and found surprisingly few complaints about it compared to the rest of the series - and then I got to this little number.

I gotta say, eh, wow. I've done the Dark Brotherhood, and complete disagree, but the mere fact someone who seems (fairly) intelligent from a (very quick) look at the rest of their blog thinks this sorta has me wondering if anyone else agrees with any of it. So, eh, thoughts on sexism in the DB?
That article appears to be about 90% projection.

Spoiler:
It should be noted that Astrid provoked Cicero into attacking her (and wounding Veezara because he leapt to her defense). Astrid is a tragic character, who ends up losing everything important to her by struggling too hard to keep it. Tragic characters generally end up wishing they were dead (which Astrid does). I dislike both the Skyrim and Oblivion Dark Brotherhood quest lines because they are tragic- it's perhaps appropriate for assassins, but it seems very different from the rest of the questlines, and I really wanted to marry Veezara, damnit.

But to complain that a female character is tragic? Tragedy takes all kinds. That she's mostly naked when sacrificing herself is the 10% of his complaint that's legitimate, but doesn't seem all that serious. I wouldn't really call this sexy.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby EmptySet » Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:45 am UTC

Box Boy wrote:Also, speaking of sexism in Skyrim, I did a quick look around and found surprisingly few complaints about it compared to the rest of the series - and then I got to this little number.

I gotta say, eh, wow. I've done the Dark Brotherhood, and complete disagree, but the mere fact someone who seems (fairly) intelligent from a (very quick) look at the rest of their blog thinks this sorta has me wondering if anyone else agrees with any of it. So, eh, thoughts on sexism in the DB?


I completely disagree with that article.

Firstly, it claims that in Cyrrodil "a woman in charge of the DB wouldn’t have been a huge deal, because women in positions of authority were not unusual there, but a woman in Skyrim is barely regarded as a real person." Seriously? There are several female jarls, and the game is full of women in traditionally male roles, including female blacksmiths, mercenaries, soldiers, senior mages, Blades, and bandit leaders. One of the three legendary heroes that help you fight Alduin is female! Furthermore, my first character was female and I don't recall anyone ever questioning her worth or ability on the basis that she was a woman. So I'm not really sure where you would get the impression that Skyrim is this horribly sexist society where women are cattle, because it looks to me like they're treated reasonably well on the whole.

Spoiler:
Second, it claims that you being made the "head honcho" after a week is 'cause it's assumed you're a dude and therefore clearly better at everything then this women. I find this completely implausible - it's because you're the player character, and you can do the same thing in organisations which are lead by manly male men. You waltz in to the College and replace the archmage after a week, though I suppose that could be blamed on Savos Aren being a dunmer and therefore insufficiently white (though that doesn't explain why my female Khajiit gets promoted over the white male senior mages who have been there for years). So instead let's go with "You can join the Circle of the Companions after fetching some dude's sword and killing two random bandits". Indeed, one of the things people have been complaining about in this very thread is the player character's mysterious ability to just walk into any organisation and become the leader in a week.

Finally, I feel like complaining that the Dark Brotherhood is cruel and violent towards a woman who betrays it and that there's no option for the player to be all compassionate to Astrid a bit odd since, you know, it's the Dark Brotherhood. It's basically the Guild of Evil Murdering Sadists.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby big boss » Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:44 am UTC

I hope no one else posted this yet...

FLUTTERSHY

Best mod ever.

Edit: opps wrong link...
click this one instead

The Real Fluttershy Mod
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Jahoclave » Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:01 am UTC

As empty points out, her evidence is wrong right out of the bat, and she/he/it/pronoun also doesn't understand the structure of the dark brotherhood. But counter to her own argument, she is also being sexist herself in pigeonholing the desires of women playing Skyrim. Why should a female not also desire to be in charge? She's basically assuming the same gender dichotomy she's complaining about. She's also being racist as well in her same assumption.

And she doesn't back up her argument about how the plot is written for privileged white men or how those are the desires of privileged white men. Then she just reads the rape imagery in there in ways that makes me kind of feel like she's putting it there to bolster her argument rather than it actually really existing. And it kind of assumes that a woman has no place in combat because she won't accept them losing at combat. And I think Van kind of covered the fact that this sort of ending isn't exactly rare for male or female characters. I swear I've seen it a half dillion times.

As for her other writing to make a more thorough opinion, I found one more post she actually wrote and it's as woefully inaccurate and misinformed--making me wonder if she's ever taken a course in creative writing in her life. link. First of all, if you're posting your writing on the Internet, you're probably already one of the people is overly awful at character. Secondly, everything she listed is bad characterization and should be despised in a character. That Mary sues are more prevalent is likely a statistics issue of who is writing the stories to start with. I teach this shit and she's clearly talking out her ass once more.

So, yeah, she knows about things, but her application is lacking and she could use a better understanding of the critical theory underlying what she's trying to write about. And, that's pretty much the same for about 99% of the people she's retweeting or whatever the hell tumble calls stealing other people's work and putting it on your page.

Color me unimpressed.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby gmalivuk » Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:03 am UTC

Yeah, that article was way off, mainly for reasons already brought up (particularly the fact that you're magically ready to take over *every* faction as soon as you do a couple not-too-hard quests for them).

However:
SirBryghtside wrote:general experience tells me that feminists with blogs are pretty much the most biased people on the internet. Especially when talking about women's representation in media.

In the unlikely scenario that he's 100% correct, though, from the intro I'm guessing his point is more representative of Dev views rather than Tamriel views. And even then, if he's the one guy in the world to discover it
Who is it that you think is a dude? Because it seems fairly likely the person writing that feminist tumblr isn't. I find it interesting that you whine about biased feminists talking about women in the media (most of them actually have a point, you might be surprised to learn) and then follow that up with assuming this one is male because... no reason I can discern.

... there's a hell of a lot more sexism in the real world, that's a hell of a lot more obvious.
If it's not the biggest or most obvious problem, stop worrying about it, amirite?
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Vaniver » Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:20 am UTC

gmalivuk wrote:Who is it that you think is a dude? Because it seems fairly likely the person writing that feminist tumblr isn't. I find it interesting that you whine about biased feminists talking about women in the media (most of them actually have a point, you might be surprised to learn) and then follow that up with assuming this one is male because... no reason I can discern.
It is far more likely that they are using "he" to refer to a person of unknown gender.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:44 am UTC

Kinda the point, innit?
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby gmalivuk » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:01 am UTC

Yeah, whether SirBryghtside thinks the blogger is actually male or merely thinks "he" is fine to use for a feminist of unknown gender makes no real difference. Either way it demonstrates that SirBryghtside is perhaps not in possession of the Internet's most unbiased opinion about feminist bias on the Internet.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby omgryebread » Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:18 pm UTC

For sexism in Skyrim and Tamriel as a whole, men do tend to be the rulers. I don't know if that's just coincidence or male-first primogeniture. Descent seems somewhat patrilineal, but only loosely. I suppose the Black-Briars could have been Maven's husband's family, but it doesn't really seem that way (I haven't spent a lot of time in Riften, though.) The Septims have been mostly male, but the line did pass through Kintyra I, and since the Empress Morihatha didn't have any children, her sister Eloisa's son was crowned (since Eloisa was dead at that point.)

The majority of soldiers and guards seem to be male, but females don't seem out of place there. "Pocket Guide to the Empire, 1st Edition, Elsweyr Confederacy" implies that the Mane who leads the Khajiit is male, but it's an extraordinarily Imperial-supremacist book, so maybe not incredibly reliable. Elsewhere, it's hinted that the "Clan Mothers" are important in Khajiit society.

So doesn't seem to be a ton of division of labor or societal roles in Tamriel, probably since there seems to be very little physical difference between sexes. On average, it seems, men tend to have a few more leadership or "bread-winning" roles, but Tamriel seems much more egalitarian than we are. (Not really because they are enlightened, but because gender roles don't have a ton of opportunity to develop when men aren't typically stronger than women.)
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SirBryghtside » Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:26 pm UTC

Or I could have read the first paragraph of the spoiler section where it said the blogger was playing a guy, and got it into my head for some reason that they said that they were somewhere else. Kind of stupid in retrospect, seeing as I'm currently playing a woman.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Vaniver » Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:30 pm UTC

I don't think it's strong evidence of bias to use standard English grammar, and defending terrible work on those grounds seems like a poor tactical move.

omgryebread wrote:(Not really because they are enlightened, but because gender roles don't have a ton of opportunity to develop when men aren't typically stronger than women.)
Eh. In Morrowind and Oblivion, Khajiit, Redguard, and Breton males were stronger than females. Daggerfall similarly had males as sometimes stronger than females (well, would have if it weren't bugged).
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