Rotherian wrote:Fire Brns wrote:7*8?
7*7=49
+7=56
not hard at all.
Or (((7*2)*2)*2)
7*2 = 14
14*2 = 28
28*2 = 56.
/shrug
You are right, my method is for squares.
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Rotherian wrote:Fire Brns wrote:7*8?
7*7=49
+7=56
not hard at all.
Or (((7*2)*2)*2)
7*2 = 14
14*2 = 28
28*2 = 56.
/shrug
Pfhorrest wrote:As someone who is not easily offended, I don't really mind anything in this conversation.
Mighty Jalapeno wrote:It was the Renaissance. Everyone was Italian.
Good theory. If your theory was correct, I wouldn't make errors when I didn't check. In my experience, when I don't check, I sometimes get the wrong value.Zamfir wrote:Yakk wrote:As for 9*9, I don't memorize it, I instead remember the rule -- 9*x is (x-1) in the tens, followed by whatever makes it add to 9 (namely, 10-x) in the ones. Sometimes I'll toss out a guess then verify it. You could call this memorization.
I suspect you (and all of us) have actually memorized quite a large part of the multiplication tables, even if it doesn't always feel that way.
As in, when you don't think about it, you usually know the answer right away. But once you start doubting your memory you have to do a calculation. But the doubt is not really caused by a memory failure, it's an external thing that hinders the more automatic memory.
Like how walking goes more difficult if you're consciously paying attention to it. Oryou recite your phone number flawlessly, then someone asks "are you sure", and suddenly you have think deep and hard. A lot of ingrained memories nearly or entirely bypass conscious thought, and if you try to retrieve them consciously it feels like you have lost the memory.
Sure, I have memorized some elements of the times tables.Zamfir wrote:but does that ever happen for 9*9, or 3*2? for some reason, 7*8 is the hardest to remember for nearly everyone, and the ones near it in the table are next. That would make some sense if we didn't remember them at all but always calculated them from scratch. But timing indicates that we do use pure memorization part of the time, and then 7*8 is still harder than others. We clearly store such facts in very different way than a computer does.
I don't think calculus should be required for high-school students, but it's great to have it as an option. Algebra I certainly think should be required. And basic statistics. (More advanced statistics require calculus).Pfhorrest wrote:I never learned calculus.
The Great Hippo wrote:[T]he way we treat suspected terrorists genuinely terrifies me.
Pfhorrest wrote:...but I still can't calculate an integral. I'm not even sure what an integral is, actually.
Pfhorrest wrote:I never learned calculus.
Роберт wrote:The main point of the comic was (and still is) it's silly to be proud that you can't understand or properly use something...
goomba25 wrote:Pfhorrest wrote:I never learned calculus.
Having been brutalized by 8 semesters worth of Calc 1, I can definitively tell you: it's not worth it. Instead of building upon previous concepts, Calc 1 basically crafts all of them into an entirely new field that uses everything before at the same time. Furthermore, the introductory calculus textbook market has been monopolized by one man who used his royalities to custom design a $25M house in which he lives alone.
Search "The House that Calculus Built" for the article.Роберт wrote:The main point of the comic was (and still is) it's silly to be proud that you can't understand or properly use something...
Unfortunately, we are all guilty of this in some aspect. No one truly understands the process behind everything they use, be it the production of coffee cups, the path of an oxygen molecule through the body, the manufacture of a motherboard, or the relationship between our constituent subatomic particles. As beings with finite energy, we don't have infinite capacity to learn. Instead, we have built a society that reflects that fact by rewarding people for providing services that others are unwilling or unable to perform. The sooner we all acknowledge our limitations, the sooner we stop coming out as arrogant know-it-alls.
(From "The House that Calculus Built".)“I basically
wrote the book to use in my own classes,” Stewart says.
“I had no idea it would catch on.”
The Great Hippo wrote:[T]he way we treat suspected terrorists genuinely terrifies me.
goomba25 wrote:Роберт wrote:The main point of the comic was (and still is) it's silly to be proud that you can't understand or properly use something...
Unfortunately, we are all guilty of this in some aspect. No one truly understands the process behind everything they use, be it the production of coffee cups, the path of an oxygen molecule through the body, the manufacture of a motherboard, or the relationship between our constituent subatomic particles. As beings with finite energy, we don't have infinite capacity to learn. Instead, we have built a society that reflects that fact by rewarding people for providing services that others are unwilling or unable to perform. The sooner we all acknowledge our limitations, the sooner we stop coming out as arrogant know-it-alls.
Pfhorrest wrote: There's a big gap between proud and ashamed.
Pfhorrest wrote: But to then be proud of not knowing is perverse. Absolute knowledge is not obligatory, but certainly greater knowledge is at least laudable, not derisibile, is it not?
Pfhorrest wrote:I think the point is "proud". There's a big gap between proud and ashamed. You seem to be saying there's no shame in not knowing something; and in many cases that's completely true, nobody can be expected to know everything. But to then be proud of not knowing is perverse. Absolute knowledge is not obligatory, but certainly greater knowledge is at least laudable, not derisibile, is it not?
DutchUncle wrote:It's part of general American anti-intellectualism to be proud of inability to think.
sarysa wrote:DutchUncle wrote:It's part of general American anti-intellectualism to be proud of inability to think.
Inability to think and irrelevant subjects are two different things. The sum of all human knowledge and creativity is so great that a million people, splitting it amongst themselves, couldn't possibly take it all in. These people aren't celebrating their own stupidity, they're celebrating their freedom from having things that bore them to tears (or otherwise take them in a direction they're not interested in or are simply bad at) shoved down their throats.
If you have television, for example, it'd be like something with authority equal to the school board telling you that you need to tune in to one of the click through stations for an hour each day before you could go to work.
Let people focus on their individual strengths.
frezik wrote:Anti-photons move at the speed of dark
DemonDeluxe wrote:Paying to have laws written that allow you to do what you want, is a lot cheaper than paying off the judge every time you want to get away with something shady.
cjmcjmcjmcjm wrote:sarysa wrote:Inability to think and irrelevant subjects are two different things...Let people focus on their individual strengths.DutchUncle wrote:It's part of general American anti-intellectualism to be proud of inability to think.
It's not a problem not to know something that isn't relevant to you. It is a problem to be proud of your lack of knowledge.
goomba25 wrote:This list has caused me no shortage of grief over the span of 8 semesters. Lacking the ability to retaliate against ephemeral concepts, my only recourse is to discard them as soon as possible.
Zamfir wrote:but does that ever happen for 9*9, or 3*2? for some reason, 7*8 is the hardest to remember for nearly everyone, and the ones near it in the table are next. That would make some sense if we didn't remember them at all but always calculated them from scratch. But timing indicates that we do use pure memorization part of the time, and then 7*8 is still harder than others. We clearly store such facts in very different way than a computer does.
ccaccus wrote:Doing it this way also builds self-confidence, as the 7s table is the only one without any easy pattern to remember. As you progress through the unit, students start jumping at patterns that they notice and learn them that much more quickly.
babble wrote:Comic 519 is a good example of being proud of not having learned anything at school.
Pfhorrest wrote:goomba25 wrote:This list has caused me no shortage of grief over the span of 8 semesters. Lacking the ability to retaliate against ephemeral concepts, my only recourse is to discard them as soon as possible.
I feel like there is some unwarranted conflation here between anger at being forced to do something unnecessary (no comment from my part on how forced or unnecessary anything is, but that's clearly your experience), and pride in losing anything that may have been gained from the experience.
Pride, to me, implies that you consider it an accomplishment to have resisted learning something (despite not successfully resisting going through the forces motions of pretending to learn it); like you have a leg somehow up on those who did learn something from it.
Pfhorrest wrote:But, if somehow I managed to make it through without getting in any better shape, or quickly reverted back to my current shape, I wouldn't feel any pride in that either. I wouldn't feel any urge to say "Fuck you Drill Sergeant, I'm still fat!" I would probably want to say "Fuck you Drill Sergeant, you fascist piece of shit", but my being fat wouldn't be something to throw back at him. That's the part I don't understand.
Pfhorrest wrote:ccaccus wrote:Doing it this way also builds self-confidence, as the 7s table is the only one without any easy pattern to remember. As you progress through the unit, students start jumping at patterns that they notice and learn them that much more quickly.
How exactly does the 7s table have any less pattern than any other number? They all have the pattern of "add N again at each step", and 'shortcuts' like "increase the tens by 1 and decrease the ones by 10-N".
Pfhorrest wrote:For an analogy, consider a group of people forced through military boot camp; and for the sake of argument lets say it's really forced, like at gunpoint, and really is unnecessary, for no purpose other than to break their spirits or something.
Most people who go through boot camp come out of it in much better shape than they went it. I am not in great shape, and I certainly as hell would not appreciate being put through boot camp against my will; I would be angry as all fuck the whole time through. When it was finally over, I would just be satisfied that it was over. If I came out of it fit for the experience, I probably wouldn't feel especially proud of that; the forced tribulations would be much more salient in my mind.
But, if somehow I managed to make it through without getting in any better shape, or quickly reverted back to my current shape, I wouldn't feel any pride in that either. I wouldn't feel any urge to say "Fuck you Drill Sergeant, I'm still fat!" I would probably want to say "Fuck you Drill Sergeant, you fascist piece of shit", but my being fat wouldn't be something to throw back at him. That's the part I don't understand.
cjmcjmcjmcjm wrote:sarysa wrote:DutchUncle wrote:It's part of general American anti-intellectualism to be proud of inability to think.
Inability to think and irrelevant subjects are two different things. The sum of all human knowledge and creativity is so great that a million people, splitting it amongst themselves, couldn't possibly take it all in. These people aren't celebrating their own stupidity, they're celebrating their freedom from having things that bore them to tears (or otherwise take them in a direction they're not interested in or are simply bad at) shoved down their throats.
If you have television, for example, it'd be like something with authority equal to the school board telling you that you need to tune in to one of the click through stations for an hour each day before you could go to work.
Let people focus on their individual strengths.
It's not a problem not to know something that isn't relevant to you. It is a problem to be proud of your lack of knowledge.
Pfhorrest wrote:I think the point is "proud". There's a big gap between proud and ashamed. You seem to be saying there's no shame in not knowing something; and in many cases that's completely true, nobody can be expected to know everything. But to then be proud of not knowing is perverse. Absolute knowledge is not obligatory, but certainly greater knowledge is at least laudable, not derisibile, is it not?
goomba25 wrote:**Please don't point out that I need Calculus to really understand Statistics, because 1) coffee cups and 2) no person I know who works in an actual biology lab and conducts experiments with living organisms (i.e. everyone but biostaticians) is even aware that Calculus underlies Statistics, much less is actually able to use Calculus in any work-related situation.
frezik wrote:Anti-photons move at the speed of dark
DemonDeluxe wrote:Paying to have laws written that allow you to do what you want, is a lot cheaper than paying off the judge every time you want to get away with something shady.
Роберт wrote:But to then be proud of not knowing is perverse. Absolute knowledge is not obligatory, but certainly greater knowledge is at least laudable, not derisibile, is it not?
cjmcjmcjmcjm wrote:goomba25 wrote:**Please don't point out that I need Calculus to really understand Statistics, because 1) coffee cups and 2) no person I know who works in an actual biology lab and conducts experiments with living organisms (i.e. everyone but biostaticians) is even aware that Calculus underlies Statistics, much less is actually able to use Calculus in any work-related situation.
…and that's why I laugh every time one of my psychology major friends drops to communication because they failed stats. (Although I do understand that no where near a significant population of the total psychology students are interested in doing research; most of them want to do clinical work or something involving criminal justice, but that's another rant about my school.) (It also doesn't help that apparently the psych/social science stats is almost as hard as real stats, but without the 5 semesters of maths prereqs, and taught as a language, not maths.)
Pfhorrest wrote:ccaccus wrote:Doing it this way also builds self-confidence, as the 7s table is the only one without any easy pattern to remember. As you progress through the unit, students start jumping at patterns that they notice and learn them that much more quickly.
How exactly does the 7s table have any less pattern than any other number? They all have the pattern of "add N again at each step", and 'shortcuts' like "increase the tens by 1 and decrease the ones by 10-N".
FruitbatNT wrote:The way I read it, he's saying that being force-fed difficult concepts through pointless repetition
learning how to ... communicate with people who happen to be born in another country?
aerogen42 wrote:This comic is wrong because:
1-Algebra is not fun.
2-Music, Cooking and Language are actually quite interesting and not boring at all.
3-I can use music to make something beautiful, cooking to make something tasty and foreing language to argue with foreing people on the internet (as I just happen to be doing right now).
*Kat* wrote:Math is the reason why I did not pursue a degree in computer science. I have a life long love of computers but was told that I had to be good at math in order to be good in computer science. So I studied history instead. Through luck and chance though I was presented with the opportunity to learn a database language and I took to it like a duck to water. One thing led to another and I got a similar chance to learn how to write JSP. Which I also did...and LOVED. So far I have been good at every computer related activity that has come my way. But to even try for a degree in computer science would be worthless and stupid because, again, I can't do higher math worth a damn.
Dr_Revels wrote:I accompanied my fiance to a meet up with some high school friends she hadn't seen in 17 years, and this exact sentiment arose in the course of their reminiscing. She turned to me and said, "can you think of any time you have had to use algebra since high school?", but wasn't amused when I answered back, "yes, daily"..
toadpipe wrote:Роберт wrote:But to then be proud of not knowing is perverse. Absolute knowledge is not obligatory, but certainly greater knowledge is at least laudable, not derisibile, is it not?
Everyone here has proudly stated that they know nothing about baseball.
The Great Hippo wrote:[T]he way we treat suspected terrorists genuinely terrifies me.
Роберт wrote:toadpipe wrote:Роберт wrote:But to then be proud of not knowing is perverse. Absolute knowledge is not obligatory, but certainly greater knowledge is at least laudable, not derisibile, is it not?
Everyone here has proudly stated that they know nothing about baseball.
Don't put words in my mouth.
Роберт wrote:toadpipe wrote:Роберт wrote:But to then be proud of not knowing is perverse. Absolute knowledge is not obligatory, but certainly greater knowledge is at least laudable, not derisibile, is it not?
Everyone here has proudly stated that they know nothing about baseball.
Don't put words in my mouth.
J Thomas wrote:Роберт wrote:toadpipe wrote:Роберт wrote:But to then be proud of not knowing is perverse. Absolute knowledge is not obligatory, but certainly greater knowledge is at least laudable, not derisibile, is it not?
Everyone here has proudly stated that they know nothing about baseball.
Don't put words in my mouth.
You misread it, and misquoted it. He didn't say that.
The Great Hippo wrote:[T]he way we treat suspected terrorists genuinely terrifies me.
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