1055: "Kickstarter"

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rcox1
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Re: 1055: "Kickstarter"

Postby rcox1 » Mon May 14, 2012 2:04 pm UTC

WilCSUN wrote:It will be interesting to see how the various crowd funding projects launched through Kickstarter pan out.
I'm not aware of any projects that were successfully funded and have already come to fruition (and I've not done a speck of research to find any), but it will be interesting to see what kind of final goods and services are produced.

I'm really excited about the DoubleFine Adventure game project, and Republique, and I'm certainly going to buy my copies when they're out on the market, but I really do wonder if this will become a suitable alternative to more traditional marketing and funding techniques.

What I'm really interested in though, is finding the first colossal failure.
Not a fake Kickstarter (which some have already been exposed) but a legitimate effort by a legitimate organization, that gets completely funded, but falls flat on it's face.
Might take the wind out of this whole phenomenon.


Matt the Electrician paid for his self released album using kick start. The Pebble Smartwatch seems to be a go.

To me the question is not whether the products are successful. The Kickstart model can be effective at raising funds to get projects done, and has been used before kickstart. The question to me is now the model is very popular, and the laws have been passed to let large corporations promote such models, will fancy campaigns result in the degradation of the model. I would say yes. Where now it is small amounts and small projects, we will inevitably see larger amounts and larger frauds. And because the process is not regulation and there is no accountability, the frauds that inhabit the financial markets will rear their ugly heads.

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Re: 1055: "Kickstarter"

Postby webgiant » Mon May 14, 2012 2:28 pm UTC

Invertin wrote:
Time Kitten wrote:Wouldn't the increse in the popularity of Kickstarter not just increse the number of kickstarts, but the number of people donating to kickstarts?


There are more people who want money than people who are willing to give money.

OTOH, the "spam principle" applies: you aren't sending out 100,000 pieces of spam to get 100,000 paid responses, you're sending out that much spam to get 10,000 paid responses, and 10,000 was the goal in the first place.

Increasing Kickstarter's popularity may mean 100,000 new people who won't give you their money, but it also means 10,000 new people who are willing to give money. And in the end, no tears will be shed over not getting money from those 100,000 people while you are headed off to the bank with the money from the 10,000.

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Re: 1055: "Kickstarter"

Postby kram2301 » Mon May 14, 2012 2:30 pm UTC

Who else just barely managed to resist the urge to click on play?

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Re: 1055: "Kickstarter"

Postby webgiant » Mon May 14, 2012 2:35 pm UTC

rcox1 wrote:
WilCSUN wrote:It will be interesting to see how the various crowd funding projects launched through Kickstarter pan out.
I'm not aware of any projects that were successfully funded and have already come to fruition (and I've not done a speck of research to find any), but it will be interesting to see what kind of final goods and services are produced.

I'm really excited about the DoubleFine Adventure game project, and Republique, and I'm certainly going to buy my copies when they're out on the market, but I really do wonder if this will become a suitable alternative to more traditional marketing and funding techniques.

What I'm really interested in though, is finding the first colossal failure.
Not a fake Kickstarter (which some have already been exposed) but a legitimate effort by a legitimate organization, that gets completely funded, but falls flat on it's face.
Might take the wind out of this whole phenomenon.


Matt the Electrician paid for his self released album using kick start. The Pebble Smartwatch seems to be a go.

To me the question is not whether the products are successful. The Kickstart model can be effective at raising funds to get projects done, and has been used before kickstart. The question to me is now the model is very popular, and the laws have been passed to let large corporations promote such models, will fancy campaigns result in the degradation of the model. I would say yes. Where now it is small amounts and small projects, we will inevitably see larger amounts and larger frauds. And because the process is not regulation and there is no accountability, the frauds that inhabit the financial markets will rear their ugly heads.

Back in the days of print media, one enterprising gentleman once posted an ad: "It's time to send in your dollar now!", complete with an address to send in your dollar. Absolutely nothing was promised in exchange, so when people went to get their money back for fraud, the courts pointed out that all he had done was the equivalent of panhandling, minus all the illegal bits.

It would take a bit more effort these days, but I could see someone creating a Kickstarter which used confusing language to ask for money while promising nothing in return, and successfully repeat history. And if you tell all your friends that they have to see the "Man Eating Chicken", it'll cost them a nickel too.

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Re: 1055: "Kickstarter"

Postby VectorZero » Mon May 14, 2012 3:00 pm UTC

'); DROP TABLE users; wrote:Why would you read title-text first? It usually references the comic itself, and often actually follows on as the next line of dialogue or narration after the strip.
Because on m.xkcd.com, on my phone, the title text loads and is visible before the comic.
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San Fran Sam
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Re: 1055: "Kickstarter"

Postby San Fran Sam » Mon May 14, 2012 3:44 pm UTC

I am familiar with Kickstarter, but when i first saw the word "pledge" I immediately thought of NPR which is going through one of it's its monthly pledge drives right now.

How come the video won't play? :lol:
Last edited by San Fran Sam on Tue May 15, 2012 8:42 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1055: "Kickstarter"

Postby nogling » Mon May 14, 2012 5:07 pm UTC

The Penny Arcade strip was definitely referencing Amanda Palmer's ridiculously successful Kickstarter campaign for her new album.

Given the press that it's gotten, I'm guessing this comic is a reference to that, as well. There's been some backlash, indicating that she's shaking down her fans for cash, and there have been some people who kind of get the point that this is payoff for the years of work spent BUILDING that fanbase in the first place.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ama ... r?ref=live

She also started a LoanSpark campaign to cover the bulk of her budget ($100,000 from Kickstarter, $550,000 from LoanSpark). LoanSpark is for creative interest loans - no monetary interest, but in addition to the total dollar amount being paid back, the artist donates time/concerts/art pieces to a charitable cause of the donor's choice.

Watching it has been really interesting. It's a pretty dramatic example of what social media can do.

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Re: 1055: "Kickstarter"

Postby Kemp » Mon May 14, 2012 5:22 pm UTC

Surely I can't be the only one having difficulty not hearing that first sentence in Cap'n Mal's voice?

Edit:
That or Morgan Freeman doing a voiceover monologue.
Last edited by Kemp on Mon May 14, 2012 6:02 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1055: "Kickstarter"

Postby Amnesiasoft » Mon May 14, 2012 5:37 pm UTC

nogling wrote:The Penny Arcade strip was definitely referencing Amanda Palmer's ridiculously successful Kickstarter campaign for her new album.

I really don't see how you came to that conclusion. Especially the part where the news post for that day points out the scam Kickstarter "Mythic: The Story of Gods and Men."

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Re: 1055: "Kickstarter"

Postby neoliminal » Mon May 14, 2012 5:41 pm UTC

My kickstarter idea was something called "Patronizr" and it would allow you to fund new and interesting projects in advance of their production.

Strangely it wasn't approved.
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Re: 1055: "Kickstarter"

Postby thephoton » Mon May 14, 2012 6:51 pm UTC

I am ready to support Randall's Kickstarter campaign for carrying out an undertaking of great advantage, but nobody to know what it is...

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Re: 1055: "Kickstarter"

Postby [username] » Tue May 15, 2012 2:06 am UTC

Kemp wrote:Surely I can't be the only one having difficulty not hearing that first sentence in Cap'n Mal's voice?

Edit:
That or Morgan Freeman doing a voiceover monologue.

Cave Johnson here.

I mean, I read it with Cave's voice in mind. The quote just happened to happen. Oh come on.
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Re: 1055: "Kickstarter"

Postby Eternal Density » Tue May 15, 2012 6:00 am UTC

Slightly more on topic than my previous post: My brother just won a competition involving making a video to promote a kickstarter product (already funded though). The prize is more of the product. Good for him I guess :D

peewee_RotA wrote:I think that xkcd trending with other web comics to satire the same idea is lame. Especially since this one was extremely less funny than the PA comic that beat 'em to the punch:
http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/i-jb ... TJT-X2.jpg
I found the xkcd more amusing that the PA one.
Also I think the PA one is referencing stuff like Wasteland 2, right?


[username] wrote:Cave Johnson here.

I mean, I read it with Cave's voice in mind. The quote just happened to happen. Oh come on.
Cannot un-imagine. Win!
I just read in in BHG's voice... which is kinda hard to describe since it only exists in my head.
Hmm, gotta go back and read all the BHG's lines as Cave Johnson.

We're done here.

[edit] This one is especially hilarious if you imagine BHG as Cave.
Spoiler:
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Scars Unseen
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Re: 1055: "Kickstarter"

Postby Scars Unseen » Tue May 15, 2012 1:37 pm UTC

Oooh, Kickcep...
Eternal Density wrote:inb4yodawgkickception.

Quicksilver wrote:Damn, the "ception" joke was made already.

*sigh*

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webgiant wrote:Back in the days of print media, one enterprising gentleman once posted an ad: "It's time to send in your dollar now!", complete with an address to send in your dollar. Absolutely nothing was promised in exchange, so when people went to get their money back for fraud, the courts pointed out that all he had done was the equivalent of panhandling, minus all the illegal bits.

It would take a bit more effort these days, but I could see someone creating a Kickstarter which used confusing language to ask for money while promising nothing in return, and successfully repeat history. And if you tell all your friends that they have to see the "Man Eating Chicken", it'll cost them a nickel too.


Yeah... that already happened.

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Re: 1055: "Kickstarter"

Postby The Moomin » Tue May 15, 2012 2:58 pm UTC

I like Kickstarter, and regularly browse it to see what dreams people are trying to make a reality. I like the idea of being able to help people attain their dreams, at minimal cost to myself, since I have no idea what mine is.

None of the projects I've backed have been fully completed as yet, but I have received a delightful signed print of an imaginary town plan and been offered macaroons through the post.

Eventually the fully finished products will start arriving which will be like random presents as I'll have forgotten what is happening by then.

I'm not entirely sure how I feel about Double Fine exceeding their required amount for the project by so much, and then launching another drive for money via their website with different rewards. It kinda defeats the purpose of having the initial drive in the first place in my opinion.
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Re: 1055: "Kickstarter"

Postby Zinho » Tue May 15, 2012 3:03 pm UTC

neoliminal wrote:My kickstarter idea was something called "Patronizr" and it would allow you to fund new and interesting projects in advance of their production.

Strangely it wasn't approved.


Not strange at all. Your project wasn't a project (at least, not according to Kickstarter's definition). Read the community guidelines, and make sure you expand and read the "View Design and Technology requirements" secion under paragraph 2. In case you're too lazy, though, I'll quite here, too:
As in all categories, Kickstarter is for projects that can be completed, not things that require maintenance to exist. This means no e-commerce sites, web businesses, or social networking sites. (Yes, this means Kickstarter wouldn’t be allowed on Kickstarter. Funny, but true.)
Essentially, if your "project" would result in an e-commerce site or anything similar it would be rejected. A project to make Slashdot would be rejected. A project to make Reddit would be rejected. A project to make Facebook would be rejected. If you can't abandon it completely and have it live on without further work on your part, it isn't a "project" according to Kickstarter, and will be rejected.

Oh, wait, are you implying that they rejected your project because it would make a competing project? </playing_stupid> Put away your paranoia. I don't think you need to look any further than the reasons I gave above for why you were rejected (assuming you actually made such a proposal, as opposed to just trolling). It seems to me that the Kickstarter folks find it amusing and ironic that they wouldn't be able to self-fund a site upgrade, nor would they have been able to use their own system to start itself (as useful as that would probably have been). They've made clear rules about what is and what isn't acceptable for their service, and anything else is outside the scope.

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Re: 1055: "Kickstarter"

Postby Fire Brns » Tue May 15, 2012 3:37 pm UTC

The Moomin wrote:...
Eventually the fully finished products will start arriving which will be like random presents as I'll have forgotten what is happening by then.
...

http://xkcd.com/576/
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Scars Unseen
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Re: 1055: "Kickstarter"

Postby Scars Unseen » Tue May 15, 2012 3:46 pm UTC

Maybe I should put up a Kickstarter to motivate me to finish up my undergrad. Pledge $50 and I'll send you a copy of one of my midterms. Pledge $100 and I'll send a copy of one that I passed.

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Re: 1055: "Kickstarter"

Postby darasen » Tue May 15, 2012 6:53 pm UTC

I don't think they are using kickstarter but, Ben Folds Five is crowd funding their current album production.

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Re: 1055: "Kickstarter"

Postby Doctor Faust » Tue May 15, 2012 11:29 pm UTC

This is great and all, but where's the Kickstarter for scientific research? I kinda wish we lived in a world where the first thought wasn't about the end product, because the end product of most people is shit.

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Re: 1055: "Kickstarter"

Postby Scars Unseen » Wed May 16, 2012 4:37 am UTC

Doctor Faust wrote:This is great and all, but where's the Kickstarter for scientific research? I kinda wish we lived in a world where the first thought wasn't about the end product, because the end product of most people is shit.


I'm right with you, man. It's a shame there isn't a way to donate money to organizations that are in it for something other than profit. In fact, I think we should write to our government about it. If the government would give such organizations a tax break, I bet there would be all kinds of people willing to make charitable contributions to such an endeavor. Hell, if the government really wanted this thing to hit the ground running, they could even give tax breaks to the people doing the donating.

I'm all excited about this now. :wink:

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Re: 1055: "Kickstarter"

Postby jpk » Wed May 16, 2012 5:11 am UTC

Zinho wrote: If you can't abandon it completely and have it live on without further work on your part, it isn't a "project" according to Kickstarter, and will be rejected.


And yet albums are a common "project" funded on Kickstarter...

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Re: 1055: "Kickstarter"

Postby VectorZero » Wed May 16, 2012 7:33 am UTC

Don't see the problem: once an album's done, the artist can release it with no further input required.
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Re: 1055: "Kickstarter"

Postby mybrainhurts » Wed May 16, 2012 8:03 am UTC

First thing I did was checking if my flashblock is broken!

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Re: 1055: "Kickstarter"

Postby scarletmanuka » Wed May 16, 2012 9:05 am UTC

Daimon wrote:Wait, "T'u" be able to?

"I'll".

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Re: 1055: "Kickstarter"

Postby folkhero » Wed May 16, 2012 10:40 am UTC

webgiant wrote:Back in the days of print media, one enterprising gentleman once posted an ad: "It's time to send in your dollar now!", complete with an address to send in your dollar. Absolutely nothing was promised in exchange, so when people went to get their money back for fraud, the courts pointed out that all he had done was the equivalent of panhandling, minus all the illegal bits.

It would take a bit more effort these days, but I could see someone creating a Kickstarter which used confusing language to ask for money while promising nothing in return, and successfully repeat history. And if you tell all your friends that they have to see the "Man Eating Chicken", it'll cost them a nickel too.

But you wouldn't lose any money unless the thing got fulling funded. If that happened, at least you would know that you weren't the only dummy who fell for it.
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Re: 1055: "Kickstarter"

Postby Fire Brns » Wed May 16, 2012 3:38 pm UTC

folkhero wrote:
webgiant wrote:Back in the days of print media, one enterprising gentleman once posted an ad: "It's time to send in your dollar now!", complete with an address to send in your dollar. Absolutely nothing was promised in exchange, so when people went to get their money back for fraud, the courts pointed out that all he had done was the equivalent of panhandling, minus all the illegal bits.

It would take a bit more effort these days, but I could see someone creating a Kickstarter which used confusing language to ask for money while promising nothing in return, and successfully repeat history. And if you tell all your friends that they have to see the "Man Eating Chicken", it'll cost them a nickel too.

But you wouldn't lose any money unless the thing got fulling funded. If that happened, at least you would know that you weren't the only dummy who fell for it.

He said an ad, not kickstarter program.
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Re: 1055: "Kickstarter"

Postby loimprevisto » Thu May 17, 2012 1:15 am UTC

Doctor Faust wrote:This is great and all, but where's the Kickstarter for scientific research? I kinda wish we lived in a world where the first thought wasn't about the end product, because the end product of most people is shit.


You mean Scifund? (http://www.rockethub.com/projects/scifund)

I'm supporting a project to map global shipping and discover the economic and ecological impact of sea lanes (http://www.rockethub.com/projects/7555-roads-of-the-ocean), experiment with a new catalyst for making renewable fatty alcohols (http://www.rockethub.com/projects/7566-renewable-fatty-alcohols-from-biodiesel), and discover opportunities to apply small-scale biotech to synthesizing economically useful chemicals (http://www.rockethub.com/projects/7534-backyard-biotech). There are dozens of other projects you can help with, many of which have very modest funding goals...

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Re: 1055: "Kickstarter"

Postby The Moomin » Thu May 17, 2012 10:27 am UTC

Fire Brns wrote:
folkhero wrote:
webgiant wrote:Back in the days of print media, one enterprising gentleman once posted an ad: "It's time to send in your dollar now!", complete with an address to send in your dollar. Absolutely nothing was promised in exchange, so when people went to get their money back for fraud, the courts pointed out that all he had done was the equivalent of panhandling, minus all the illegal bits.

It would take a bit more effort these days, but I could see someone creating a Kickstarter which used confusing language to ask for money while promising nothing in return, and successfully repeat history. And if you tell all your friends that they have to see the "Man Eating Chicken", it'll cost them a nickel too.

But you wouldn't lose any money unless the thing got fulling funded. If that happened, at least you would know that you weren't the only dummy who fell for it.

He said an ad, not kickstarter program.
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Re: 1055: "Kickstarter"

Postby Fire Brns » Thu May 17, 2012 2:13 pm UTC

The Moomin wrote:
Fire Brns wrote:
folkhero wrote:
webgiant wrote:Back in the days of print media, one enterprising gentleman once posted an ad: "It's time to send in your dollar now!", complete with an address to send in your dollar. Absolutely nothing was promised in exchange, so when people went to get their money back for fraud, the courts pointed out that all he had done was the equivalent of panhandling, minus all the illegal bits.

It would take a bit more effort these days, but I could see someone creating a Kickstarter which used confusing language to ask for money while promising nothing in return, and successfully repeat history. And if you tell all your friends that they have to see the "Man Eating Chicken", it'll cost them a nickel too.

But you wouldn't lose any money unless the thing got fulling funded. If that happened, at least you would know that you weren't the only dummy who fell for it.

He said an ad, not kickstarter program.

I see your point, overlooked that sentence. I'm fuzzy but Kickstarter still has guidelines, I believe asking for money for money's sake would be in violation and kickstarter could step in.
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Re: 1055: "Kickstarter"

Postby sirius3100 » Fri May 18, 2012 12:41 pm UTC

loimprevisto wrote:
Doctor Faust wrote:This is great and all, but where's the Kickstarter for scientific research? I kinda wish we lived in a world where the first thought wasn't about the end product, because the end product of most people is shit.


You mean Scifund?


I add www. petridish . org to the list. That crowdfunding website is purely focused on scientific research.

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Re: 1055: "Kickstarter"

Postby loimprevisto » Mon May 21, 2012 12:27 am UTC

sirius3100 wrote:
loimprevisto wrote:
Doctor Faust wrote:This is great and all, but where's the Kickstarter for scientific research? I kinda wish we lived in a world where the first thought wasn't about the end product, because the end product of most people is shit.


You mean Scifund?


I add www. petridish . org to the list. That crowdfunding website is purely focused on scientific research.


Very cool, thanks for the link. Most of the projects that I was interested in were already funded, but I jumped in on the quail project (http://www.petridish.org/projects/quail-project) and I'm sure some others will pop up from time to time.

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Re: 1055: "Kickstarter"

Postby willaaaaaa » Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:02 pm UTC

It occurred to me that this comic could also be construed as a jab at the Invisible Children campaign.
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