Gargoyles Mafia - Game Over: Xanatos Gambit (Scum Win)

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby BoomFrog » Sun May 27, 2012 2:23 am UTC

I agree snark should claim a rolename. Although it really doesn't prove much at this point.
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby UniqueScreenname » Sun May 27, 2012 2:48 am UTC

@ Snark - I copped you, but it didn't give me any sort of alignment information. I never questioned your role, but that was given to me. I don't know where you got cult recruiting from. I was never under the impression that was happening. However, if you mean BF and MN, I don't understand what you mean about how the mason group would have 1 recruiter and 3 recruits by now. Yesternight there was one recruiter (BF) and 2 recruits (MN and Carey). Now there could be another recruit, which would put the numbers back up to 1 recruiter and 2 recruits, which would have been 1 recruiter and 2 recruits if Carey wasn't lynched. Also, if that is what you meant, why are you voting for me and not the group that you consider to be scum?

I'm relatively new to mafia, so I still don't have the best grasp of balance. I don't know how many mafia would still be left. I don't really have any suspicions of CF or mpolo, which leaves Snark, BF, MN, and flarpfreak. FF claimed to be in the 23rd precinct mason group and aligned with Matt before DBC added that detail to his death summary, so I'm inclined to believe her. However, I suppose it's possible she could be Illuminati that found him out and then killed him. BF and MN claim to be in a mason group, and when I copped BF it came up as a mason recruiter. A lot of the confusion from N2 could be explained by them being mafia, but there's a lot of evidence against it. Also, neither of them voted for fearless, and I don't give them any points for outing Carey, because like I said, SKs are lethal to both town and scum. Then there's Snark. He's told the truth about his role when it would have been easier to let everyone wallow in confusion, but his role doesn't seem very towny, and my investigation toward him didn't clear anything up. A lot of what I responded to in the first paragraph leads me to doubt him even more, since it's not very clear and rather aggressive. But that could just be normal Snark.

I'm going to think a bit and see how people respond before I vote. I'm not set on anyone at the moment.
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby UniqueScreenname » Sun May 27, 2012 2:58 am UTC

EBWOP: Oh, and saying the win condition like that doesn't convince me all that much as someone said it at the beginning of the game. I'm not really sure what I thought that was going to prove to me.
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby Mostlynormal » Sun May 27, 2012 3:03 am UTC

Notice carey's role reveal mentioned nothing about being in a cult. The outing an SK isn't the part that confirms BF, it's the "was part of the Redemption Squad Mason Group" and the distinct lack of "was a member of the Illuminati."

The fact that USN copped Snark is interesting. Do you get all the information about their abilities? Because if so, a cult leader should show up as able to recruit people, right?

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby Snark » Sun May 27, 2012 3:08 am UTC

I'm Angela.

Going to bed now. More tomorrow.
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby UniqueScreenname » Sun May 27, 2012 3:30 am UTC

All I get is the title and the description of what they can do. No role names or alignment. However, I did just notice it doesn't say anything about being compelled to redirect. In fact, it implies a choice. He roleclaimed, though, so still going to think about it for a while.
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby Snark » Sun May 27, 2012 1:38 pm UTC

DaBigCheez wrote:matt96 has died during the Day. He was Matt Bluestone (Illuminati Exposer). He was aligned with the Manhattan Clan (Town) and was a Human. He was a member of the 23rd Precinct Mason Group.

The Illuminati Exposer ability could free the targeted player from the influence of the Illuminati, if they were under such. He was immune to such influence himself.

UniqueScreenname wrote:Ooh, Illuminati. Now we know for sure there are two different factions.

UniqueScreenname wrote:I don't know where you got cult recruiting from. I was never under the impression that was happening.


What precisely do you think that the Illuminata is, if not a cult?
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby UniqueScreenname » Sun May 27, 2012 3:39 pm UTC

Just because there's a cult doesn't mean they can recruit.
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby Mostlynormal » Sun May 27, 2012 4:06 pm UTC

If the Illuminati do exist, then then matt's ability implies they can recruit. Being under the influence of the Illuminati is different from being a member of the Illuminati, and the former implies being recruited.

It sort of occurred to me that Snark had a pretty safe space for falseclaims anyway, as long as he didn't hit my character (which he didn't). Also, I'm starting to wonder if maybe Snark isn't an Illuminati recruiter or anything but just Xanatos, which would fit well with his ability and with the fact that USN saw nothing about recruiting.

To any with flavor knowledge: does being a bus driver make any sense for Angela?

Let's not give Snark any help. Snark, why don't you tell us yourself the rationale for being a compulsive bus driver?

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby Snark » Sun May 27, 2012 6:22 pm UTC

Mostlynormal wrote:Let's not give Snark any help. Snark, why don't you tell us yourself the rationale for being a compulsive bus driver?

I looked over the wiki, and it looks vaguely workable, but I'm not about to do the mod's job and defend why DBC made Angela a bus driver. You seriously want everyone to defend why their character and power go together and whoever's fits the worst gets lynched? Sounds a little stupid to me.


No votes on US besides my own? If she's not cult, there'd most likely be 3 cultees eager to hop on any wagon they can. This hasn't happened. My conclusion: US is scum. My vote is staying on US.
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby Mostlynormal » Sun May 27, 2012 7:10 pm UTC

My point was, if you really got a role PM that said you were Angela, a compulsive bus driver, I'd expect that you'd get some justification for it in the flavor in your role PM. I received a justification in my role PM. Sure, it won't always be detailed and could often be a stretch, but I'd surprised if the mod gave you nothing.

Vote: Snark

Because I think it's much more likely he's just scum than the mod giving him absolutely no flavor justification, especially considering the quality of the flavor in the rest of the game.

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby Snark » Sun May 27, 2012 7:49 pm UTC

Cult Members
UniqueScreenname
Mostlynormal
?

Thanks for clearing that up, MN. What you're attacking me on is laughably weak, and if you had trusted me based on me being able to give justification for my role, that'd be rather naive.

I'd support a MN lynch or a US lynch at this point, but US is more likely to be the recruiter so my vote will stay where it is for now.
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby CaptainFinglass » Sun May 27, 2012 7:53 pm UTC

Hmmm... I'm leaning between USN and Snark as Scum, but I don't have enough evidence to go for either yet. I'll post more when I'm home from work.

DBC, something has come up and I won't have Internet for about a week come Tuesday. Can you replace me please? I'll stole be able to post until then.
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby CaptainFinglass » Sun May 27, 2012 7:54 pm UTC

EBWOP: *still. I don't know how you can stole a post.
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby UniqueScreenname » Sun May 27, 2012 8:50 pm UTC

If I was a recruiter I would need to have two night actions. This is one of the reasons I'm not convinced that the Illuminati can recruit, because almost everyone has claimed what their power is. I'm not really convinced the Illuminati exists at all, but it would be so bastardly to give two people roles that did nothing. At this point my best idea is that Snark is Illuminati and Matt's ability was to stop the bus driving. But there's still the problem of that second redirect on D1/N2, and I'm super confused again.
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby UniqueScreenname » Sun May 27, 2012 9:16 pm UTC

Ok, I've been doing some reading, and based on the wiki I'm going to do something that seems sort of out of left field. The wiki mentions two things that really stand out to me: the Redemption Squad fight against the Illuminati, and the Illuminati gain control by having people in strategic places where they will have a lot of influence. Based on that, and the fact that she didn't vote for fearless,

Vote: flarpfreak

Matt worked with the Illuminati quite a bit. It doesn't seem like a huge stretch to me.
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby Mostlynormal » Sun May 27, 2012 9:24 pm UTC

I don't think it's too rare for a role, especially a role with a kill or recruit, to have more than one night action. It's also not unheard of to have roles that are actually useless to lead people off track. It would certainly fall within the usual definition of "not bastard" as "everything operates according to predefined rules"

Snark wrote:What you're attacking me on is laughably weak, and if you had trusted me based on me being able to give justification for my role, that'd be rather naive.

I don't see how it's weak. You're the last person to claim, and therefore have a whole lot better chance of a successful falseclaim than otherwise. When pressed on simple details, like a flavorwise justification that I'm sure about everyone got, you were unable to provide them. My reaction had you gone the other way is irrelevant, and your prediction of it is incorrect.

Ninja'd: Not a huge stretch but an unnecessary one. Snark makes much more sense as scum.

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby Snark » Sun May 27, 2012 10:05 pm UTC

Mostlynormal wrote:you were unable to provide them. chose not to because they were irrelevant.
FTFY.

Mostlynormal wrote:My reaction had you gone the other way is irrelevant, and your prediction of it is incorrect.
So if I gave justification you wouldn't have trusted me, and since I didn't give justification, you don't trust me? Why ask the question then? It's stuff and nonsense.


I really don't care what you think. I don't recall you role-claiming yet. So according to your suspicion list, you should be voting for yourself right about now, don't you think?
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby UniqueScreenname » Sun May 27, 2012 10:16 pm UTC

I really, really, really don't think Snark is scum. I know I said differently before, but I had certain constraints on my thought processes that left him as the best option. I have worked through those constraints and found what I think is a better option. But a lot of my trust in him as town comes from playing other games with him and understanding his process, so 1) I can't expect others to come to that conclusion if they haven't played with him, and 2) Snark, if you're scum, this is the best you've ever played ever.
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby BoomFrog » Mon May 28, 2012 3:11 am UTC

UniqueScreenname wrote:I really, really, really don't think Snark is scum. I know I said differently before, but I had certain constraints on my thought processes that left him as the best option. I have worked through those constraints and found what I think is a better option.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by "certain constraints"? I'm not following your thinking, and examine other's logic is one of my best ways to scumhunting. Also, why did you use your rolecop on Snark? His power was pretty confirmed N1 since he switched JSO's roleblock from me to you. Why not check someone who has not proven their power? Specifically why not flarpfreak, the only person to not claim their power yet?

Speaking of Flarpfreak; Your pretty implicitly claimed but I'd like you to explicitly claim, and I'd like to know what your power is, because I don't see why you wouldn't want to share that information at this point.
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby flarpfreak » Mon May 28, 2012 3:52 am UTC

UniqueScreenname wrote:Ok, I've been doing some reading, and based on the wiki I'm going to do something that seems sort of out of left field. The wiki mentions two things that really stand out to me: the Redemption Squad fight against the Illuminati, and the Illuminati gain control by having people in strategic places where they will have a lot of influence. Based on that, and the fact that she didn't vote for fearless,

Vote: flarpfreak

Matt worked with the Illuminati quite a bit. It doesn't seem like a huge stretch to me.

I might as well kill two birds with one stone here. If you lynch me then you can kiss the town doctor who saved CF on the first night goodbye. Anymore questions?
Wait, what?

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby Mostlynormal » Mon May 28, 2012 4:14 am UTC

It's completely relevant. If you're telling the truth, you should have the information readily available and if you're scum then it forces you to either think quickly or react like you're reacting now, in fact, the way you're reacting now is exactly what I was looking for. Think of it this way: the information is relevant because it just might get me to take my vote off you, and will probably keep the votes of others off of you. So either cough it up or continue digging your hole.

As for me claiming, I've claimed in private to Boomfrog, a confirmed townie, who's publicly stated that he trusts my claim. Unless everybody decides Boomfrog is just hopelessly naive, I feel no need to claim in public.

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby BoomFrog » Mon May 28, 2012 4:25 am UTC

flarpfreak wrote:I might as well kill two birds with one stone here. If you lynch me then you can kiss the town doctor who saved CF on the first night goodbye. Anymore questions?
What's your rolename, who did you protect each day so far and why? Does your power say it would protect against all kills in one night or just one kill?
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby UniqueScreenname » Mon May 28, 2012 11:46 am UTC

BoomFrog wrote:Could you elaborate on what you mean by "certain constraints"?

I said before what pinged my scumdar was how the wiki said Illuminati were often strategically placed. That made me think there could be a bad guy in a mason group. Before that I was assuming that flarpfreak had to be town because Matt was town and she mentioned the mason group before DBC put it into his role summary. In that situation Snark was the best option.

I picked Snark because I'm stupid. I didn't realize my role only gave role information, because when I copped BF it said "Mason" recruiter, so I assumed town. I thought Snark's would say a similar giveaway. Also, it was really close to deadline and I had forgotten to ask, so I picked someone really quickly without reviewing what had happened the night before.

As far as everyone claiming, I don't remember what MN said she could do. Care to elaborate?
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby CaptainFinglass » Mon May 28, 2012 12:10 pm UTC

I'm FoSing flarpfreak for one reason here: I happen to know it was nigh impossible to kill me D1. I don't want to give scum too much information, but I know a certain portion of that ability was used up. Mind you, I don't know if that would have happened if there really was a Doctor or not. But it seems suspicious to me--I'm apparently the only one it's been successfully used on on a day I know I pretty much couldn't die and that I know scum attacked me on. Does that make sense?
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby BoomFrog » Mon May 28, 2012 12:32 pm UTC

Interesting. I await flapfreak's response.

Possibly modprod mpolo?
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby flarpfreak » Mon May 28, 2012 3:28 pm UTC

My role prevents a single NK against a target.
D1) Protect CF
D2) Protect JSO
D3) Protect JSO

My thinking is that two people or groups may have gone after JSO. This is supported by the fact that CF was probably attacked by at least two different killers, and one of them used up her ability, one used up my protect.
As for my rolename, you would not believe me...
Wait, what?

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby DaBigCheez » Mon May 28, 2012 3:59 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:Possibly modprod mpolo?


As mentioned in thread, mpolo will be unavailable through Tuesday (tomorrow). The decision was made not to replace him, as no replacements were available at the time and he would return before the end of the Night.
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby DaBigCheez » Mon May 28, 2012 4:43 pm UTC

t1mm01994 will be replacing CaptainFinglass. CaptainFinglass may continue to post until t1mm01994 makes his first post in-thread.
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby BoomFrog » Tue May 29, 2012 1:34 am UTC

Well the lack of anyone posting makes me very nervous. Almost 24 hours and besides flapfreak responding to my questions no one says anything? Come on people, who do you think is scum? Fine I'm just going to come out and say it, you're all cultists.

@t1mm, welcome to the party. We are likely at lylo with a cult. Also there's one or two mafia left (it depends if cult recruited mafia) also mafia were were likely provided with falseclaims as everyone has claimed something reasonable. I believe we are at 2-3-2 (two town, three cult, and two mafia.) I think you and mpolo and snark are the non-cult, and USN, flarpfreak and MostlyNormal are the cultists. From scumdar I think Flarpfreak is the recruiter, but from logic I think USN is. USN was roleblocked once which would account for only having two recruits in three nights days. (we talk and lynch at night, we take action during the day, don't get confused).

Both USN and flarpfreak have unconfirmed actions, USN claimed rolecop but has only confirmed claimed roles so far. Flarpfreak has claimed doctor but the only person he successfully protected is you and you apparently are self-protected already. JSO died last day while under flarp's supposed protection as well.
flarpfreak wrote:D3) Protect JSO

My thinking is that two people or groups may have gone after JSO. This is supported by the fact that CF was probably attacked by at least two different killers, and one of them used up her ability, one used up my protect.
The problem with that theory is that one of our killers was lynched last night so there is very likely only one NK left in the game.
As for my rolename, you would not believe me...
Try me.

Vote: Flarpfreak
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby Mostlynormal » Tue May 29, 2012 1:48 am UTC

Personally, I've been waiting for Snark to post. I'm pretty convinced he's the recruiter right now. Does no one else find the fact that he could provide no justification for his role funny? If you look at it, it isn't just "considers it irrelevant" (which seems a lot like a scum dodging tactic--"Oh you want me to tell you such and such? Haha, you don't really need that, do you?") it's more like "admits to having no justification." Boomfrog, you're the one with flavor knowledge, right? Does it make any sense at all for Angela to be a compulsive bus driver?

If I'm just being crazy about this "Snark is scum" thing, tell me! Why exactly does it make sense to trust the last person to claim, when they couldn't even provide a reason for their power fitting their rolename?

Also, your list of cult vs non-cult is pretty weird. You really think both the earliest claimed power roles avoided culting but relatively useless seeming people like me, flarpfreak and USN got culted? I mean I know there's a wine aspect and all but come on!

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby Snark » Tue May 29, 2012 3:07 am UTC

@MN
If literally anyone besides you thinks I need to defend why my role and power go together I will. But not until you claim and justify your role/power combo. I don't care that you claimed to BF in mason chat. And anyone else who wants me to defend gets to defend first as well. It's not worth my time if it's not worth yours. That and I think the whole precedent it would set is dumb.

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby Mostlynormal » Tue May 29, 2012 3:16 am UTC

It's not a precedent because I only want the people who claimed last to give their justification, and you're the only one who claimed last. But I'm prepared to claim anyway because I'm not exactly the most hugely important of power roles.

I'm Hudson, Gargoyle, Manhattan Clan Racecop. I have a perfectly reasonable and even detailed justification: I'm an old, experienced guy, so I can tell if people aren't gargoyles by their posture and stuff. I'd be fine if your justification was a stretch but refusing to give one just reeks of scum to me. Why would a townie withhold such simple information, even if they did think it was useless?

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby UniqueScreenname » Tue May 29, 2012 3:21 am UTC

You know, I'm starting to think I'm the only one here that is not in either a mason group or a cult or some sort of special something. That kinda hurts my feelings :(

Anyway, I'm still leery of flarpfreak's defense. It seems unlikely that both DKs would come to the same person two different times when we have plenty of semi-confirmed townies to go around.

Ninja'd: All these different cops just reminds me of day one when so many people were sure we would only have one cop. So funny.
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby BoomFrog » Tue May 29, 2012 3:31 am UTC

Well culting USN makes sense if flarp was looking to avoid being rolecopped. And the high profile targets are likely to be killed so can make bad cultists. Really that argument is weak at best and I'd rather trust my scumdar. And USN or Flarp are pretty new so their nightaction choices would be hard to predict anyway, so yeah it's very possible.

Snark may be scum, I thought he was until USN said she thinks this is how he always is. I haven't played with him much so it's hard to say. However, if he is mafia or not is kinda moot at the moment and I'm pretty sure he's not cult.

As to role plausibility. Ehh, Angela was Demona's daughter and knew a little bit about magic so, ehh, kinda plausible.

Wow: Ninja'd but I think my point still stands.
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby mpolo » Tue May 29, 2012 3:15 pm UTC

So, I am back. I left right as day was breaking, but did send in my action: MostlyNormal targetted JSO. Which doesn't tell us all too much, given that MN has claimed a coplike role.

Snark's evasiveness is pinging me a lot. He eventually name-claimed, but then made a huge show about "I don't know why I have this power", which seems like overkill until somebody else has spoken about it.

I am starting to wonder if the Illuminati isn't a red herring (i.e. matt could detect Illuminati influence, but there isn't any in this game). From what I understand of the flavor, Xanatos pretty much has to be around. If there were a recruiting bad-guy group, we'd be in deep trouble at the moment.
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby Snark » Tue May 29, 2012 3:26 pm UTC

mpolo wrote:Snark's evasiveness is pinging me a lot. He eventually name-claimed, but then made a huge show about "I don't know why I have this power","I refuse for any mafia game to be judged by whose power fits the worst with their character"

Do me a favor. Read my posts. And then read the wiki for Angela.
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby DaBigCheez » Tue May 29, 2012 5:35 pm UTC

Votals:
flarpfreak: 2 (BoomFrog, UniqueScreenname)
Snark: 1 (Mostlynormal)
UniqueScreenname: 1 (Snark)

7 players alive, 4 votes to lynch. Deadline in approximately 53.5 hours.
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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby flarpfreak » Tue May 29, 2012 11:23 pm UTC

I do appreciate that you are lynching me, the person who named my Mason group before it ever appeared in the flavor text. The 23rd precinct mason group only had two members, matt and I. We have no recruiting capabilities, and our whole goal was to de-recruit Illuminati. Why would there be an Illuminati in that mason group I ask you?
As for my rolename, I'm Elisa Maza.
Wait, what?

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Re: Gargoyles Mafia - Night 4: The Fall of Demona

Postby BoomFrog » Wed May 30, 2012 12:00 am UTC

flarpfreak wrote:As for my rolename, I'm Elisa Maza.
See that's exactly what I thought your rolename would be. That's the incredibly obvious claim for the 23rd precinct mason group. So the question remains, why the hell did you think I wouldn't believe that name claim?

flarpfreak wrote:I do appreciate that you are lynching me, the person who named my Mason group before it ever appeared in the flavor text.
I completely 100% agree that you are provably masons with Matt. I also think it would fit the flavor of the Illuminati perfectly for them to be masons with the recruit-immune cult-remover. That would be totally hilarious as a set up and I could definitely see DBC doing that after what happened in mulanfia.
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