Softbank to Buy Sprint

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sardia
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Softbank to Buy Sprint

Postby sardia » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:17 am UTC

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/10/15/ ... technology
One of Japan's biggest cell phone carrier is buying sprint, which is struggling, in the hopes of breaking into the coveted US market for smart phones.

While I don't expect it to work, it could pay off for everyone if it does. The benefits are clear, more competition, lower prices, faster speeds. The downsides is that the amount of debt it saddles both companies with means that any hiccup will put them both into serious trouble. While I highly doubt they can install a united network that is similar to the faster networks in Japan, I hope they do. It'll put pressure on the lazy bums at AT&T to prioritize bandwidth and speed.

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Re: Softbank to Buy Sprint

Postby Red Hal » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:37 pm UTC

It will also place yet another organisation under foreign ownership, but I assume you don't have any issues with that?
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Re: Softbank to Buy Sprint

Postby kiklion » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:25 pm UTC

Red Hal wrote:It will also place yet another organisation under foreign ownership, but I assume you don't have any issues with that?


Nope, we are all sentient beings. If they can do it better, good for them.

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Re: Softbank to Buy Sprint

Postby sardia » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:07 am UTC

Red Hal wrote:It will also place yet another organisation under foreign ownership, but I assume you don't have any issues with that?

Are you gonna state your point or be vaguely critical?

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Re: Softbank to Buy Sprint

Postby Red Hal » Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:42 am UTC

I was being neither; merely ascertaining your position. However, intent is not magic so let me ask directly; does the fact that Sprint would be placed in the hands of an overseas multi-national in the event of this sale improve, worsen or have no effect on your disposition toward the sale? In the interests of continuing the discussion I'll state my position. I'm not American, so I have no particular axe to grind with regard to this particular sale, but I have had a nagging unease over the sale of companies to larger, multi-national corporations who - as a result - will not have the same focus on the business. If anything, their focus will be even more on profit and less on the effects of the workers and the country employing them.

My comment in particular was influenced by a very small-scale story here in bonny Scotland that, again, does not affect me directly but to my mind demonstrates all-too-clearly the potential risks. I don't wish to get into a discussion on my particular small-scale example, I merely offer it by way of illustration: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-19962183

If I am honest, I have had a growing disaffection with the profit motive as sole driver of business for some years, and this sale just seems like another short-term gain with no regard to the effects on the people who work there.
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Re: Softbank to Buy Sprint

Postby snow5379 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:23 am UTC

People aren't entitled to anything.

When you work for a company you're just selling that company a service. God forbid your customer (the company) finds a better deal from someone else! We must control the customers and force them to buy only our product!! It's not like trying to control the market has negative effects across the board and will hurt us in the end... nope not at all.

Yes that's sarcasm. A free market is a good thing and helps everyone in the end. We're sort of moving towards a world where everyone just works part time since machines are doing most of the work. The transition can be tough but in the end it'll all work out. We're sort of stuck in this "everyone has to work full time" mindset because prices are high and we want everything. Let the free market lower prices and the need for work suddenly vanishes.

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Re: Softbank to Buy Sprint

Postby yurell » Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:46 am UTC

Companies have a legal duty and obligation to their shareholders. It sucks, but there you go.
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Re: Softbank to Buy Sprint

Postby jules.LT » Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:15 pm UTC

Employment is much more than a sale of work. Thankfully, since it takes such a huge portion of humanity's time.
Companies have legal duties and obligations towards their employees and customers too, and it is up to society to decide how far those should go and how far those towards shareholders should go.
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Re: Softbank to Buy Sprint

Postby kiklion » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:06 pm UTC

jules.LT wrote:Employment is much more than a sale of work. Thankfully, since it takes such a huge portion of humanity's time.


Not quite, Employment can be much more than a sale of labor, but it doesn't have to be. At it's very base line it is just sale of labor, you may enjoy your job and that can be grand, it can be a place of social interaction, but neither of these are required for it to be Employment. I would do a job I hate for 7 digit pay. I would do just about any legal and some illegal jobs for 7 digit pay.

jules.LT wrote:Companies have legal duties and obligations towards their employees and customers too, and it is up to society to decide how far those should go and how far those towards shareholders should go.


This is correct though, for instance there are legal duties of providing a safe working environment to their employees.

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Re: Softbank to Buy Sprint

Postby jules.LT » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:34 pm UTC

No. In all cases, employment is much more than a sale of work. The people involved in it are humans with complex motives, they spend enormous amounts of time together, which creates relationships (good or bad), it can be torture or enrichment, etc.
Summing it up as the sale of work is an incredibly narrow way to look at it. It's the way "ideal" markets are supposed to look at it, but they don't exist in the real world.
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Re: Softbank to Buy Sprint

Postby Zamfir » Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:27 pm UTC

At it's very base line it is just sale of labor, you may enjoy your job and that can be grand, it can be a place of social interaction, but neither of these are required for it to be Employment. I would do a job I hate for 7 digit pay. I would do just about any legal and some illegal jobs for 7 digit pay.

It's not about liking, it's about the complexity of the relationship. Some employment relations are really simple enough to be described as a sale of labour, but those tend to be among the least attractive and worst paid.

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Re: Softbank to Buy Sprint

Postby bittyx » Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:57 pm UTC

Not to rail on the off-topicness too much, but as someone who is happily employed, doing what I like with nice people, it is still, in my opinion, a sale of labor - it's just that I'm "charging" my employer more than mere money - I'd consider the environment I work in, as well as the satisfaction of doing the actual job, as something that I get in return besides the money. And since there's different jobs with different people and different environments, it could still be defined as a market for selling labor - it's just that you decide what you're willing to sell your work for, and it doesn't have to be purely financial.

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Re: Softbank to Buy Sprint

Postby Tyndmyr » Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:12 pm UTC

yurell wrote:Companies have a legal duty and obligation to their shareholders. It sucks, but there you go.


While true, this is not necessarily the only legal duty and obligation. I feel this is often forgotten. Hell, a company need not even be publicly traded, and even if it is...it does not need to solely seek profit.

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Re: Softbank to Buy Sprint

Postby sardia » Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:38 pm UTC

Red Hal wrote:I was being neither; merely ascertaining your position. However, intent is not magic so let me ask directly; does the fact that Sprint would be placed in the hands of an overseas multi-national in the event of this sale improve, worsen or have no effect on your disposition toward the sale? In the interests of continuing the discussion I'll state my position. I'm not American, so I have no particular axe to grind with regard to this particular sale, but I have had a nagging unease over the sale of companies to larger, multi-national corporations who - as a result - will not have the same focus on the business. If anything, their focus will be even more on profit and less on the effects of the workers and the country employing them.

My comment in particular was influenced by a very small-scale story here in bonny Scotland that, again, does not affect me directly but to my mind demonstrates all-too-clearly the potential risks. I don't wish to get into a discussion on my particular small-scale example, I merely offer it by way of illustration: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-19962183

If I am honest, I have had a growing disaffection with the profit motive as sole driver of business for some years, and this sale just seems like another short-term gain with no regard to the effects on the people who work there.

As an AT&T customer, I not in a position to worry about whether or not Softbank will pillage Sprint for profit. What interested me was any changes that Softbank could introduce to Sprint, especially regarding broadband speeds on their cell network. However, looking deeper into the deal, Sprint plans on using the extra money to replace Nextel's network with Sprint's. While that is good for Sprint's customers, it doesn't actually increase the max speed, which is what I was hoping would happen. If it did, we would get the broadband speeds that Asian countries have, but that's just a pipe dream for now.

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Re: Softbank to Buy Sprint

Postby Red Hal » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:02 pm UTC

It is. sadly. We get pretty good broadband here in our tiny corner of the globe, but even given our diminuitive size there are real problems providing broadband to the more rural areas. The problems must be much greater in the U.S. Technical issues aside, though, my concern is for the employees in the newly merged organisation.
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Re: Softbank to Buy Sprint

Postby Dark567 » Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:09 am UTC

Zamfir wrote:It's not about liking, it's about the complexity of the relationship. Some employment relations are really simple enough to be described as a sale of labour, but those tend to be among the least attractive and worst paid.
I am really unsure about that. The employees I know who get paid the most are often the most aware that employment is the sale of labor. They negotiate for every dollar they can get out of their employers and constantly threaten to jump ship and go to a competitor if they don't meet demands.
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Re: Softbank to Buy Sprint

Postby Gears » Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:06 am UTC

Softbank is definitely not any faster than American telecom companies. The only advantage they might have is they don't charge late fees or anything. I travel back an forth from Japan a lot and have a softbank phone and an AT&T phone that operate just the same.
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Re: Softbank to Buy Sprint

Postby snow5379 » Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:19 am UTC

Just for comparison: shopping is much more than the buying of things! It can be a fun experience!

You can package it however you like but when it comes down to it when you're working you're trading a service for some money. Getting some perks at work is no different than a buy 2 apples get 1 free sort of deal. It mixes it up a bit but it's the same money for goods or services for money sort of thing.

Now there are some laws to prevent some asshole from buying all the apples in the world and reselling them for stupid amounts of money, or straight up lying and saying the apples are from Eden and will give you knowledge. Same goes for laws about children not working and laws against slave wages. I don't know if this is good or bad, depends who you are I guess (the slave or the owner). Where you draw the line for what laws you can set about the market is something no one can agree on and everyone will argue on because everyone has different things at stake.

I really don't think there's anything morally wrong with shipping jobs over seas. Foreign people need jobs too... and we are all people. Nationalism (is that the right word?) is kind of like racism. I'm not going to lie: I'm a racist, nationalist asshole (tbh everyone is a little bit biased no matter what even if they try not to be) who loves my country but there's a different between having pride in USA and actively hurting other people because you think Americans are special and better than everyone else. You can think whatever but don't hurt others and say they can't have jobs because of they aren't Americans.

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Re: Softbank to Buy Sprint

Postby sardia » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:44 pm UTC

Gears wrote:Softbank is definitely not any faster than American telecom companies. The only advantage they might have is they don't charge late fees or anything. I travel back an forth from Japan a lot and have a softbank phone and an AT&T phone that operate just the same.

I could have sworn that asian broadband was much faster than american broadband, and with lower prices. Something to do with competition and higher population densities.

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Re: Softbank to Buy Sprint

Postby Dauric » Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:19 am UTC

sardia wrote:
Gears wrote:Softbank is definitely not any faster than American telecom companies. The only advantage they might have is they don't charge late fees or anything. I travel back an forth from Japan a lot and have a softbank phone and an AT&T phone that operate just the same.

I could have sworn that asian broadband was much faster than american broadband, and with lower prices. Something to do with competition and higher population densities.


IIRC the systems aren't "faster" insofar as the systems themselves, everybody's essentially using the same series of technologies. What is vastly different is the population density in south-eastern asia cities means that more people live closer to more towers than would be feasible in the larger, flatter 'urban sprawls' of U.S. cities.

Grand upshot of this is the quality of connection by the end user; IE: asian broadband users routinely get 'more bars' than U.S. users. Packets are transmitted between the end-user device and the network more reliably, so less time is wasted in resending the same data to cover for corrupted packets. The network infrastructure itself is the same, and their internal speeds are comparable but it's the end user's results, especially for larger more complicated files (likes apps and videos), where there's a difference in performance.
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Re: Softbank to Buy Sprint

Postby sardia » Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:56 am UTC

If cell phone has same speeds, so it's just their internet for homes is faster than US homes?


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