1190: "Time"

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Khrushy » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:36 am UTC

dreiarmumig wrote:Having done a quick search, I didn't find that this has been posted on here before, so I thought I'd share it: http://thred.github.io/xkcd-time-catapult/


Thanks, because clearly, if I'm hanging around this thread, I need *more* ways to disturb my productivity. :twisted:
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cmyk » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:40 am UTC

I took the liberty of editing the "List of end of comic theories" page on the xkcd Time Wiki since the heading "BHG shows up (with possible destruction of castles)" had no theories listed below — heaven's forbid!

Its my own earnest take on what Randall might have in store for us. If this theory has already been put out there and debunked, feel free to kill it... or, y'know, add to it.

Here's the link to the BHG theory.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby higgs-boson » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:44 am UTC

cmyk wrote:
KarMann wrote:For the ones with trebuchet shot trajectories, should we assume G=9.80665 m/s2? Or do you suppose that's not safe here?


Well, it depends. You'd need to know the mass, the surface drag of the projectile, and how many foot pounds of torque the launching arm had at release. Only after the the ballistic projectile's kinetic energy it recieved from the trebuchet has been overcome by gravity (at the apogee of its trajectory), can you then figure out the elapsed estimated time using 9.8m/s2 (and to get really nitpicky, without knowing the density, mass or surface drag, we can't figure its terminal velocity), but I doubt there's enough trajectory data points across frames to calculate with any meaningful accuracy, especially with all the other unknowns. This is also assuming elapsed time overall has remained a constant, which doesn't seem to be the case.


Maybe we do not need numbers. Proportions (and some, say, "assumptions") would be enough - we have seen some frames with flying projectiles and their impact on the (this is an assumtion:) sand. Although some more flying would be fine... as surface drag goes, we'd need good graphical trajectory data (peak, at least). Where's FoxTrax when you truly have The Need?

EDIT: I got the quotes wrong *blush*
Last edited by higgs-boson on Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:51 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby azule » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:45 am UTC

A BHG Deus Ex Machina seems unlikely as it would be perceived as a cop-out. I think we're limited to the two there and to the environment. Maybe raptors.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby azule » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:47 am UTC

higgs-boson wrote:Maybe we do not need numbers. Proportions (and some, say, "assumptions") would be enough - we have seen some frames with flying projectiles and their impact on the (this is an assumtion:) sand. Although some more flying would be fine... as surface drag goes, we'd need good graphical trajectory data (peak, at least). Where's FoxTrax when you truly have The Need?

The thrown sand would give us a max frame rate, but not the min or set rate. Biggest issue with any of this is that the sand was floating in the air for frame ~454/455. You could say, "This is just a cartoon", or someone give me a scientific explanation for why that is occurring. heh :D

Edit: Thanks for the edit, higgs-boson.
Last edited by azule on Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:56 am UTC, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cmyk » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:48 am UTC

azule wrote:A BHG Deus Ex Machina seems unlikely as it would be perceived as a cop-out. I think we're limited to the two there and to the environment. Maybe raptors.


How would that be a Deus Ex Machina?

Raptors would be most welcome.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cmyk » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:51 am UTC

azule wrote:*ahem* higgs-boson, I didn't say that. Quote fail!


Yeh! That was me!
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:52 am UTC

Quest progress: 173 out of 267 pages.
Second Megan Period. NP 248.

I have reached a great personal milestone along this thread: the first newpix of Time that my eyes beheld. This one:
Spoiler:
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Because it was my first newpix, I came to it naive, knowing not that this was the One True Comic. I foolishly assumed it was as other comics before, but one whose punchline escaped me. "Wait for it," I read. I saw but did not see. I saw a castle near a sea. The midsection confused me: was the castle eroding, giving way to Time? The structure on the left was a curiosity.

As is my custom when not understanding xkcd, I came to these forums. I visited this thread. And I SAW. My sense of scale was all wrong, both physically and temporally. It was a Sandcastle, and the comic was more than a mere frame of Time. I began reading this thread at page 1. I could not stop. At page 77 I began my official quest to read it in its entirety. One hundred pages later, my quest continues.

But I see Newpix 248, and I remember the curiosity that first set me on this journey through Time.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby higgs-boson » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:52 am UTC

cmyk wrote:
azule wrote:*ahem* higgs-boson, I didn't say that. Quote fail!

Yeh! That was me!

Gosh. So much for "keeping the quotes short". Sorry.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby azule » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:56 am UTC

cmyk wrote:
azule wrote:A BHG Deus Ex Machina seems unlikely as it would be perceived as a cop-out. I think we're limited to the two there and to the environment. Maybe raptors.


How would that be a Deus Ex Machina?

Raptors would be most welcome.

BHG would be. Not the raptors. There would probably just be a swashbuckling fight with Cueball, Megan, and the raptors for control of the sand city (and their lives).
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby KarMann » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:00 am UTC

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Added: Looks like the rope moved more than she did.
Last edited by KarMann on Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:02 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cmyk » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:00 am UTC

azule wrote:
cmyk wrote:
azule wrote:A BHG Deus Ex Machina seems unlikely as it would be perceived as a cop-out. I think we're limited to the two there and to the environment. Maybe raptors.


How would that be a Deus Ex Machina?

Raptors would be most welcome.

BHG would be. Not the raptors. There would probably just be a swashbuckling fight with Cueball, Megan, and the raptors for control of the sand city (and their lives).


Yeh, I understood that. I'm just asking, because the the raptor ending is more of a D.E.M than the BHG time-traveling theory, IMHO. ???
Last edited by cmyk on Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:01 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby higgs-boson » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:01 am UTC

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/time/095acad6a37c217c27bb91122cc56a9b7b8048f605cf9737d42347a65c9d612e.png
I assume they are building a big tent for protection.
I am just not sure what it may be they are going to protect the castles from.

Edit: I feel postposteditsniped.
Last edited by higgs-boson on Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:09 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby azule » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:01 am UTC

She's getting ready to hang herself. :shock:

higgs-boson wrote:
cmyk wrote:
azule wrote:*ahem* higgs-boson, I didn't say that. Quote fail!

Yeh! That was me!

Gosh. So much for "keeping the quotes short". Sorry.

It's all good. I've tried (and failed) to do exactly the same thing many times, too. I OCD my last post and fix those mistakes ASAP. Maybe I OCD'd your post. Apologies. lol.

cmyk wrote:
azule wrote:
cmyk wrote:
azule wrote:A BHG Deus Ex Machina seems unlikely as it would be perceived as a cop-out. I think we're limited to the two there and to the environment. Maybe raptors.


How would that be a Deus Ex Machina?

Raptors would be most welcome.

BHG would be. Not the raptors. There would probably just be a swashbuckling fight with Cueball, Megan, and the raptors for control of the sand city (and their lives).


Yeh, I understood that. I'm just asking, because the the raptor ending is more of a D.E.M than the BHG time-traveling theory, IMHO. ???

Okay... something to do with BHG coming in and blasting the creations away so that a frame 1 loop can commence. (Sorry, I didn't check which theories [time travel, you say...] were listed on the wiki, but I remember some of these from earlier in Time.)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cmyk » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:24 am UTC

azule wrote:She's getting ready to hang herself. :shock:

higgs-boson wrote:
cmyk wrote:
azule wrote:*ahem* higgs-boson, I didn't say that. Quote fail!

Yeh! That was me!

Gosh. So much for "keeping the quotes short". Sorry.

It's all good. I've tried (and failed) to do exactly the same thing many times, too. I OCD my last post and fix those mistakes ASAP. Maybe I OCD'd your post. Apologies. lol.

cmyk wrote:
azule wrote:
cmyk wrote:
azule wrote:A BHG Deus Ex Machina seems unlikely as it would be perceived as a cop-out. I think we're limited to the two there and to the environment. Maybe raptors.


How would that be a Deus Ex Machina?

Raptors would be most welcome.

BHG would be. Not the raptors. There would probably just be a swashbuckling fight with Cueball, Megan, and the raptors for control of the sand city (and their lives).


Yeh, I understood that. I'm just asking, because the the raptor ending is more of a D.E.M than the BHG time-traveling theory, IMHO. ???

Okay... something to do with BHG coming in and blasting the creations away so that a frame 1 loop can commence. (Sorry, I didn't check which theories [time travel, you say...] were listed on the wiki, but I remember some of these from earlier in Time.)


Ahh, okay. There's the confusion. In just the last hour I added my BHG time-traveling theory, connecting the forshadowing from "The Past" to this one. Totally different idea. Not a looping/cyclical theory.

Here's the link to my new wiki entry:
http://xkcd-time.wikia.com/wiki/List_of ... castles.29

Or for convenience:
Spoiler:
BHG shows up (Time traveling theory connecting comics #1190 & #1191)
One possibility is BHG, known for having traveld through time ("Kill Hitler", 1063), becomes inspired to do so, yet again, in "Time's" (1190) following comic "The Past" (1191).
Perhaps having to build yet another one-shot time machine to visit the pre-industrialized past — counting on easily drilling for oil in a foreign country since any opposition or military involvement would not yet exist. The panel has a conspicuous cold-open, and ends with BHG's words trailing off in thought with a schemingly sounding, "Hmmm...". The alt-text also feels particularly foreshadowing to this theory.

At some point, in a future comic, we should see BHG vanishing into the past, and excitingly, he appears in the previous panel "Time" coinciding with the very next newpic.

If so, we'll have had the luxury to see how The Past has been unfolding in all these interveining newpix in "Time" (1190), understanding what BHG will not be prepared for. Assuming typical BHG fashion, he's underestimating the past's outdated military, because Cueball and Megan have certainly been busy: Building sandcastles; using a trebuchet to destroy them; creating mounds to try and get a better vantage of their surroundings; creating a small scale layout of their newly created structures to use, as a military general might, to plan a seige on a war room table (and even placing a miniature trebuchet within it!).

We also get to see subtle clues in leading up to all this. They decide go for a swim in perhaps less than ideal sea water, causing Megan to choke and cough a little. Could it be tainted with crude oil? Also, Megan, pensively observing the sea level, doesn't seem to understand the rising tides, and Cueball remains silent. Suggesting this scientific knowledge must be after their time? They come and go as they please, playing, building, and experimenting, until Megan, probably thirsty or needing to bathe, asks where the river is. Most likely due to not having modern conveniences such as plumbing? Also, this would indicate an arid, desert climate with fresh water levels rising and falling in regions of the world now known for massive amounts of crude oil and fossil fuels not far below the ground.

And finally, Cueball, reaching the limit of his inventiveness, believes their creations can't be built any bigger or taller. He leaves Megan seemingly challanged by this departing declaration, and immediately puts her proven ingenuity to work, attempting something much grander which Cueball couldn't conceive.

If this theory plays out, BHG might arrive unwittingly too late, (as in the comic "Kill Hitler" ), where he succeeds in killing the Führer, but foolishly does so in 1945, near the end of WWII, making it totally pointless and wasting his one-shot time machine.

In theory, by the time he arrives in "Time", he should be in for quite a surprise when he finds out what Megan and Cueball have been up to...
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby KarMann » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:00 am UTC

Image
Return of the Cueball
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Jonas79 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:10 am UTC

YAY, Cueball :D I'm with the people who think that Cueball comment that it wasn't possible to build higher triggered Megan to prove that it's indeed possible to build higher. She's going to build something HUGE :shock:
I predict that the One True Comic will continue until the end of Time!

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cmyk » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:11 am UTC

KarMann wrote:Image
Return of the Cueball


He's coming back, all nonchalant, as if he did just take a massive dump down by the river.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cmyk » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:12 am UTC

Jonas79 wrote:YAY, Cueball :D I'm with the people who think that Cueball comment that it wasn't possible to build higher triggered Megan to prove that it's indeed possible to build higher. She's going to build something HUGE :shock:


And they'll keep going bigger and more advanced. Seems that's the direction now.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:15 am UTC

So what's up with the third pole from the left? Is it standing on top of a little box, or behind it?
And what's up with that little box (if that's what it is) anyway?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cmyk » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:17 am UTC

mscha wrote:So what's up with the third pole from the left? Is it standing on top of a little box, or behind it?
And what's up with that little box (if that's what it is) anyway?


She placed that box there as she was gathering everything. The pole is planted in the sand behind it.

No one really knows what it is yet.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:19 am UTC

higgs-boson wrote:
  • The river. No one supposed Arwen Undómiel playing a part in it (and with regret I do not expect the Evenstar doing so, too *sniff*), but the water level rises.

No, it doesn't, it actually retreated a little this week. It's the sea that is rising, but we don't understand what it's doing.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby peewee_RotA » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:47 am UTC

This weekend had a bunch of awesome updates!
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http://timelesstherpg.wordpress.com/about/

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby higgs-boson » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:53 am UTC

mscha wrote:
higgs-boson wrote:
  • The river. No one supposed Arwen Undómiel playing a part in it (and with regret I do not expect the Evenstar doing so, too *sniff*), but the water level rises.

No, it doesn't, it actually retreated a little this week. It's the sea that is rising, but we don't understand what it's doing.
Spoiler:
Image
Image


As senior hair-splitter I've to note that although you began your sentence with "No", you did not contradict my words. The water level rises (which is well documented in this uber mega thread). And the river's going to be an issue: Why else should there be conversation about it? It''s* retreat was important enough for words to be written. And Megan shows comprehension issues due to the river/sea thingie - which had been pointed out, too.
Spoiler:
Yeah, yeah, you're right. I could have said it more clearly from the beginning.

*Heh.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Eliram » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:57 am UTC

mscha wrote:
higgs-boson wrote:
  • The river. No one supposed Arwen Undómiel playing a part in it (and with regret I do not expect the Evenstar doing so, too *sniff*), but the water level rises.

No, it doesn't, it actually retreated a little this week. It's the sea that is rising, but we don't understand what it's doing.
Spoiler:
Image
Image

If she doesn't understand what the sea is doing, while he is not offering any suggestion to this puzzle, is it possible that their world has no moon?
It's about time.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby KarMann » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:01 am UTC

Image
Going to raise some flags, maybe??
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Exodies » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:05 am UTC

mscha wrote:
higgs-boson wrote:
  • The river. No one supposed Arwen Undómiel playing a part in it (and with regret I do not expect the Evenstar doing so, too *sniff*), but the water level rises.

No, it doesn't, it actually retreated a little this week. It's the sea that is rising, but we don't understand what it's doing.
Spoiler:
Image
Image


Why would a river retreat? Drought? Does only a river in the sea make any sense here?
Why would a river be far out unless it was in the sea. Far away if it was inland.
How come when you need oceanographers you only have geologists?

M&C are tying the ropes together?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby higgs-boson » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:05 am UTC

They are on a barge loaded with sand. The motor's out and, finally, they are hoisting sails.
Well. Would be a crude type of sail. The poles are arranged in pairs?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby kryton » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:08 am UTC

masts and sails???
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Exodies » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:11 am UTC

Here's something you can do with sticks on a beach
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby 9hili9 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:20 am UTC

Or, maybe they are expecting ...

*gasp*

... a Dragon?


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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Flumble » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:50 am UTC

Intrexa wrote:Well, it's this thought that made me finally register. I think a strong case could be made this comic was made just so that Randall could get more people to register and get a stronger community, but I think this is actually an analogy or fable (I can't quite think of the correct word) on global warming. It's not the tide they're looking at. It's a grand scheme of global warming that's making the ocean rise. That's the point of it all I think, is that between any 2 points you can't notice a difference between the ocean level, but if you go back to the beginning, it's very clear. The sand castles are society, our houses, our stores, our ports, our everything, and we're going to watch them get washed away. This is (damn my 'just woke up' brain, still can't think of words) foreshadowing of what's going to happen at the current rate of the ocean rising on Earth. Meaghan saying "I don't understand what the ocean is doing" is all the people who doubt global warming causing the ocean to rise.

My 2 cents. Again, I just woke up, I could be way off, but I don't think I am.

Apart from the part about registrations, I'm also fond of the thought that the comic is hinting to global warming.


higgs-boson wrote: It''s* retreat

*Its

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Mr Moriaty » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:52 am UTC

it could just say

"THE END"
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby KarMann » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:55 am UTC

Flumble wrote:
higgs-boson wrote: It''s* retreat

*Its

You missed the coloured asterisk footnote, didn't you?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby KarMann » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:56 am UTC

Mr Moriaty wrote:it could just say

"THE END"

Or perhaps "we apologise for the inconvenience."
P.S. I am Randall, but not that Randall.
We can rebuild it. We have the technology. We can make it better than it was. Better … stronger … well, maybe not faster.
Well, BlitzGirl is experiencing a bit of a title wave.
Magdiragdag wrote:I wait for it, therefore I am.
Illud expecto, ergo sum.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Flotter » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:59 am UTC

KarMann wrote:
Flumble wrote:
higgs-boson wrote: It''s* retreat

*Its

You missed the coloured asterisk footnote, didn't you?

Pretty redundant, there are two apostrophes there, surely they cancel each other out (like a double negative)?

Oh, and B/G/DONG:
Image

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby imagineddragon » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:05 pm UTC

cmyk wrote:1) If you wanted to calculate time, I think the best bet is based on the rising tide. But there's unknown variables there too.

2) I think she's digging a hole to bury her poop.



Also, check that against the trebuchet projectiles. I think we will find some real conundrums if we try to compare the time lapses between movements and tides with the physics of flying objects. I'm still holding on to the idea of "That thing that is pronounced homophonically like an herb spelled with a Y" being a thought experiment for subatomic particles and quantum mechanics or something.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby gorn » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:09 pm UTC


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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Flado » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:12 pm UTC

cmyk wrote:Well, it depends. You'd need to know the mass, the surface drag of the projectile, and how many foot pounds of torque the launching arm had at release. Only after the the ballistic projectile's kinetic energy it recieved from the trebuchet has been overcome by gravity (at the apogee of its trajectory), can you then figure out the elapsed estimated time using 9.8m/s2 (and to get really nitpicky, without knowing the density, mass or surface drag, we can't figure its terminal velocity), but I doubt there's enough trajectory data points across frames to calculate with any meaningful accuracy, especially with all the other unknowns. This is also assuming elapsed time overall has remained a constant, which doesn't seem to be the case.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't 4 coplanar points sufficient to define a parabola?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby KarMann » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:26 pm UTC

Flado wrote:
cmyk wrote:Well, it depends. You'd need to know the mass, the surface drag of the projectile, and how many foot pounds of torque the launching arm had at release. Only after the the ballistic projectile's kinetic energy it recieved from the trebuchet has been overcome by gravity (at the apogee of its trajectory), can you then figure out the elapsed estimated time using 9.8m/s2 (and to get really nitpicky, without knowing the density, mass or surface drag, we can't figure its terminal velocity), but I doubt there's enough trajectory data points across frames to calculate with any meaningful accuracy, especially with all the other unknowns. This is also assuming elapsed time overall has remained a constant, which doesn't seem to be the case.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't 4 coplanar points sufficient to define a parabola?

Actually, many of the frames with trebuchet shots also show a trail of the projectile. Even assuming it's not long enough for just one to define a parabola, two points with trajectory angles should probably do it.
P.S. I am Randall, but not that Randall.
We can rebuild it. We have the technology. We can make it better than it was. Better … stronger … well, maybe not faster.
Well, BlitzGirl is experiencing a bit of a title wave.
Magdiragdag wrote:I wait for it, therefore I am.
Illud expecto, ergo sum.


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