1190: "Time"

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Moose Anus » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:18 pm UTC

I think they're just trying to keep their feet dry for when the water rises.
Lemonade? ...Aww, ok.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cmyk » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:19 pm UTC

RobIrr wrote:Image

All that work with the poles etc and they've no so much as kicked a flag over by mistake...


Waiiit for it. She's gonna go all Three Stooges with that ladder, swinging it toward the sandcastles, knocking them all down, taking out a leg from the structure, all falling down like trees, until it knocks Cueball on the head, spilling his brains all over the sand.

Then...

RELEASE THE MAGNITIZED ZOMBIE RAPTORS!!!
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby histrion » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:21 pm UTC

Eutychus wrote:This is beginning to look like the setup for a trapeze act.


That's what she said.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby speising » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:27 pm UTC

we know one thing about this beach: there must be a hardware store very near by.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cmyk » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:29 pm UTC

speising wrote:we know one thing about this beach: there must be a hardware store very near by.


Or an IKEA.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Moose Anus » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:36 pm UTC

Or a trebuchet factory.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby HAL9000 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:44 pm UTC

cmyk wrote:
speising wrote:we know one thing about this beach: there must be a hardware store very near by.


Or an IKEA.

Let's not go down that path again.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby udscbt » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:48 pm UTC

Funkster wrote:'lo all,

Really hope this hasn't been proposed before, I've read about 80% of the posts in this thread so hoping that I would have seen it if it has...

People trying to work out the Time between newpix using projectiles made me think: what if the filename is a hash of the Time time rather than the outside time? That way if the key was known then the timestamp of each frame would be, too.

Of course that supposition doesn't help much in finding out the key...

?
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I'm quoting you mostly because, being this your first post (and as such it needed the approvation of a moderator), probably nobody has read it, but I'd like to know what others think of it. It's an interesting theory actually, but I think it is more likely to be the hash of the frame number: this way Randall could just name each frame with its frame number and use an automatic script to hash the name and upload it.

histrion wrote:It suddenly occurs to me that Randall has set up an awful/wonderful precedent. From now on, everyone's going to be half-expecting his strips to launch into week-long auto-updates.

I actually thought about going through all the old comics to see if they have changed, but I don't have time the time hasn't allowed me to.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby histrion » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:00 pm UTC

D/G/BONG...
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby htom » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:01 pm UTC

The ladder is too short?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Shepherdess » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:04 pm UTC

htom wrote:The ladder is too short?


And it went on a SlimFast diet.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Magdiragdag » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:07 pm UTC

Image
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Montov » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:09 pm UTC

htom wrote:The ladder is too short?


Not if you want to reach the end of the pole with your hands.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Flado » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:10 pm UTC

cmyk wrote:I predict it'll only be a matter of Time before somebody reenacts this entire comic with still photography.

"Entire", Sir? Do we know that?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cmyk » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:22 pm UTC

They're making a drawbridge, aren't they?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cmyk » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:24 pm UTC

Flado wrote:
cmyk wrote:I predict it'll only be a matter of Time before somebody reenacts this entire comic with still photography.

"Entire", Sir? Do we know that?


AM I NOT YOUR PROPHET?!
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby 12obin » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:30 pm UTC

histrion wrote:D/G/BONG...


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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Caswallon » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:41 pm UTC

Of course, the simple premise here is that they can in fact build the sandcastle "much higher" than it is currently, with a little bit of ingenuity. :)

But that is just way too simple of an explanation, and personally I think we will zoom out to see a crane from a local construction site hook onto the poles and the base Megan installed below the castle (obscured from view) to haul the sand castle away from the water.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby chem1190c » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:53 pm UTC

Flado wrote:
cmyk wrote:2) Since this is a projectile assumably on our planet, and in an our atmosphere, fluid dynamics really come into play and complicate matters greatly in determining velocity over time when you don't know important variables like density, mass, drag, etc.

I assume she was shooting rocks, but who knows, it could've been driftwood, dirt clods, plutonium pellets, a woodchuck, an icosahedrons made out of dead leaves, her used tampons, or even her own poop.

In the absence of evidence to the contrary, the custom is to assume a spherical cow in a vacuum. No?
All that said, you could probably get a close enough estimate, but regardless it seems pretty apparent the frames aren't at a fixed, constant interval anyhow, so you couldn't apply it over the entire animation.

You are, of course, right - there is no way she can run, carrying stuff, twice as fast as her spherical cow flies, even in a vacuum. Nonetheless, it would be nice to check Randall's math - whether it is at all possible for a catapult to launch anything on this trajectory. Heresy, I know. But I am the Patriarch of the Western Paradox Church, so it is somehow expected of me. And not.

That actually seems like an unreasonable assumption in this case. I think what we should really do is see if there are any literature values for the dielectric permittivity of a cow, in which case we would consider the cow to a uniform material with spherical non-cow containing voids..
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby lassehp » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:54 pm UTC

Flado wrote:
cmyk wrote:I predict it'll only be a matter of Time before somebody reenacts this entire comic with still photography.

"Entire", Sir? Do we know that?


Actually, I have been thinking about a similar idea: Making a movie that reenacts the entire comic live, using real actors, with only one camera, and only the zoom and pan used in the comic. But it would probably be very difficult, as I believe it should be done as one very long real-time shot. I suppose a madman like Lars von Trier could pull it off and make a hell of a movie. Of course as stick figures don't wear any clothes, it should be done as if it was at a nudist beach. :)

I wonder which actors could actually do this - who would you cast for Megan and Clueball?

/Lasse
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby elementropy » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:01 pm UTC

Am I the only one thinking that Cueball should be helping Megan with the ladder?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby udscbt » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:06 pm UTC

Image

elementropy wrote:Am I the only one thinking that Cueball should be helping Megan with the ladder?

I think he would only make it more dangerous :)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby RobIrr » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:06 pm UTC

[img ]http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/time/1ca3c05e4917e898e2546e5c03f99dd460d583e0d0bcdb021587658e1bf40a0b.png[/img]
Ninja'd

I hope she braced it properly at the bottom, as there is no sign of it being tied off. The local Health & Safety bods would have a fit, especially given the presumed soft ground...
Image
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby chem1190c » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:09 pm UTC

udscbt wrote:Image

elementropy wrote:Am I the only one thinking that Cueball should be helping Megan with the ladder?

I think he would only make it more dangerous :)


I assumed that was the point :wink:
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Exodies » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:12 pm UTC

udscbt wrote:
RobIrr wrote:Image

All that work with the poles etc and they've no so much as kicked a flag over by mistake...

Definitely a stair... or a rail?

Definitely a rail. Stairs go up and down, rails left to right or front to back.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby azule » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:15 pm UTC

100th Post within Time Thread!!!

Maybe less celebratory and more pathetic this time. lol

Flado wrote:Heresy, I know. But I am the Patriarch of the Western Paradox Church, so it is somehow expected of me. And not.

When did we get a Western Paradox Church? I want to be an unmember too.




FutureEdit: What better post to edit to leave a message to BlitzGirl than my 100th in-thread post. FutureText:
Spoiler:
To BlitzGirl:

Good luck. I made a past journey through 100 pages (could that be true?) that was really 140 to 160 pages once I caught up. It really puts a stress on your family, so be aware of those around you. You still gotta ignore them but be nice about it. Bathe and eat. Same time, if you can. Coma only when forced. Ignore Outside.

When the discussion gets technical and pedantic, well, I couldn't process much thinking about how much this was holding me up from getting to the goal. I'm glad you seem to have a bit more patience to tread on. Please bring with you to the future any gems lost to Time so we may not be bereft of their beauty.

P.S. I may or may not be part of the Western Paradox Church (see above), it is unknown to me, but you may count yourself a member whilst you journey through the past. As to your membership in the future, that is markedly less clear. Cherish this transient gift.
Last edited by azule on Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:47 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Montov » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:16 pm UTC

We're going to see some pole dancing by Megan. Or Cueball is performing his routine on the horizontal bar. Either way it would be damn sexy.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby elementropy » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:21 pm UTC

So the thing up at the top that many of us assume to be a platform...it appears to be slightly lower in our viewframe from the right side. I wonder if that's an indication of depth--i.e. we're deceived by the silhouette nature into assuming that everything that is not the castle is behind the castle, whereas perhaps in actuality two of the columns are closer to the viewer, and we are looking on the scene from a slight angle.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Roia » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:23 pm UTC

They're gonna make it bigger! With cueballs help, the ropes will let down the swing-chair and they can carry on building.

I'm worried about the scructure if the castle though - there's only so high you /can/ build things out if sand / semen / coffee / babies / a combination of all of all of those before the whole thing collapses at the bottom. (Not that I've tried building castles with anything but sand)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby KarMann » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:25 pm UTC

12obin wrote:
histrion wrote:D/G/BONG...

[voiced stop]ɑŋ

Jong???
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cmyk » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:34 pm UTC

chem1190c wrote:
Flado wrote:
cmyk wrote:2) Since this is a projectile assumably on our planet, and in an our atmosphere, fluid dynamics really come into play and complicate matters greatly in determining velocity over time when you don't know important variables like density, mass, drag, etc.

I assume she was shooting rocks, but who knows, it could've been driftwood, dirt clods, plutonium pellets, a woodchuck, an icosahedrons made out of dead leaves, her used tampons, or even her own poop.

In the absence of evidence to the contrary, the custom is to assume a spherical cow in a vacuum. No?
All that said, you could probably get a close enough estimate, but regardless it seems pretty apparent the frames aren't at a fixed, constant interval anyhow, so you couldn't apply it over the entire animation.

You are, of course, right - there is no way she can run, carrying stuff, twice as fast as her spherical cow flies, even in a vacuum. Nonetheless, it would be nice to check Randall's math - whether it is at all possible for a catapult to launch anything on this trajectory. Heresy, I know. But I am the Patriarch of the Western Paradox Church, so it is somehow expected of me. And not.

That actually seems like an unreasonable assumption in this case. I think what we should really do is see if there are any literature values for the dielectric permittivity of a cow, in which case we would consider the cow to a uniform material with spherical non-cow containing voids..


This might require applying Cowlomb's Law to the proposed spherical non-cow voids so we can see if spherical vacuum cows might make for excellent insulation, resulting in a material that would build up almost no static charge. If Megan rubbed her head vigorously with a spherical vacuum cow, it would not stick to a wall like a ballon as there would be no exchange of electrons between her and the SVC.

If this is the case, I believe we can then determine whether or not its milk would be safe to drink — which hardly needs pointing out that this insight would bring us all one step closer in understanding Randall's Master Plan here.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Boril » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:38 pm UTC

I'm convinced they're building a ship. The poles are going to be masts, soon sails will be attached, and when the liquid rises too much Megan and Cueball will sail away into a monochromatic sunset aboard their caffeinated ooblek ship and live happily ever after.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby histrion » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:38 pm UTC

I can't explain this, but for some reason the current slide...
Image
...is so much more amusing because of those little flags behind Megan.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mathrec » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:40 pm UTC

Flado wrote:
cmyk wrote:Well, it depends. You'd need to know the mass, the surface drag of the projectile, and how many foot pounds of torque the launching arm had at release. Only after the the ballistic projectile's kinetic energy it recieved from the trebuchet has been overcome by gravity (at the apogee of its trajectory), can you then figure out the elapsed estimated time using 9.8m/s2 (and to get really nitpicky, without knowing the density, mass or surface drag, we can't figure its terminal velocity), but I doubt there's enough trajectory data points across frames to calculate with any meaningful accuracy, especially with all the other unknowns. This is also assuming elapsed time overall has remained a constant, which doesn't seem to be the case.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't 4 coplanar points sufficient to define a parabola?


This was a math problem just begging to be solved. Three coplanar points are sufficient to define a parabola. There are two sequences with three points. Frames 212-214 and frames 219-221. You have infer where the projectile hit the Magic Kingdom in the final frame of each sequence. When we assume that the shape is a parabola, that means that we are ignoring air friction. We also need two more constants. I assumed that g = 9.8 m/s^2. I also assumed that Cueball's 33 pixel height is 1.8 meters.

The short of it is that the first sequence implies 0.92 seconds per frame. The second sequence implies 1.03 seconds per frame.

Ignoring air friction is not a bad assumption for rocks. The effect of air friction is to make the trajectory steeper at the end. Fitting a parabola to the three points will result in an overestimate of the height of the trajectory. So, assuming no air friction should cause us to overestimate the time per frame.

I think ignoring air friction is reasonable, and Randall may actually have done the math for the trajectories. But it's pretty clear that more than one second elapses between successive frames during other sequences in the One True Comic. So, newpix may be a constant unit of Time for Timewaiters, but it's not a constant unit of Time for Megan and Cueball.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby imagineddragon » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:41 pm UTC

Roia wrote:They're gonna make it bigger! With cueballs help, the ropes will let down the swing-chair and they can carry on building.



Perhaps they are building forms to reiterate this process.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Caswallon » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:43 pm UTC

histrion wrote:I can't explain this, but for some reason the current slide...
...is so much more amusing because of those little flags behind Megan.


Has anyone else noticed the complete and total lack of wind? The flags have not moved one pixel since being erected.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby imagineddragon » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:44 pm UTC

mathrec wrote:
Flado wrote:
cmyk wrote:Well, it depends. You'd need to know the mass, the surface drag of the projectile, and how many foot pounds of torque the launching arm had at release. Only after the the ballistic projectile's kinetic energy it recieved from the trebuchet has been overcome by gravity (at the apogee of its trajectory), can you then figure out the elapsed estimated time using 9.8m/s2 (and to get really nitpicky, without knowing the density, mass or surface drag, we can't figure its terminal velocity), but I doubt there's enough trajectory data points across frames to calculate with any meaningful accuracy, especially with all the other unknowns. This is also assuming elapsed time overall has remained a constant, which doesn't seem to be the case.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't 4 coplanar points sufficient to define a parabola?


This was a math problem just begging to be solved. Three coplanar points are sufficient to define a parabola. There are two sequences with three points. Frames 212-214 and frames 219-221. You have infer where the projectile hit the Magic Kingdom in the final frame of each sequence. When we assume that the shape is a parabola, that means that we are ignoring air friction. We also need two more constants. I assumed that g = 9.8 m/s^2. I also assumed that Cueball's 33 pixel height is 1.8 meters.

The short of it is that the first sequence implies 0.92 seconds per frame. The second sequence implies 1.03 seconds per frame.

Ignoring air friction is not a bad assumption for rocks. The effect of air friction is to make the trajectory steeper at the end. Fitting a parabola to the three points will result in an overestimate of the height of the trajectory. So, assuming no air friction should cause us to overestimate the time per frame.

I think ignoring air friction is reasonable, and Randall may actually have done the math for the trajectories. But it's pretty clear that more than one second elapses between successive frames during other sequences in the One True Comic. So, newpix may be a constant unit of Time for Timewaiters, but it's not a constant unit of Time for Megan and Cueball.


Cool! :) You should put the full theorem up on the wiki.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby udscbt » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:49 pm UTC

Caswallon wrote:
histrion wrote:I can't explain this, but for some reason the current slide...
...is so much more amusing because of those little flags behind Megan.


Has anyone else noticed the complete and total lack of wind? The flags have not moved one pixel since being erected.

I actually think that those are plastic flags.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby macraw83 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:54 pm UTC

mathrec wrote:
Flado wrote:
cmyk wrote:Well, it depends. You'd need to know the mass, the surface drag of the projectile, and how many foot pounds of torque the launching arm had at release. Only after the the ballistic projectile's kinetic energy it recieved from the trebuchet has been overcome by gravity (at the apogee of its trajectory), can you then figure out the elapsed estimated time using 9.8m/s2 (and to get really nitpicky, without knowing the density, mass or surface drag, we can't figure its terminal velocity), but I doubt there's enough trajectory data points across frames to calculate with any meaningful accuracy, especially with all the other unknowns. This is also assuming elapsed time overall has remained a constant, which doesn't seem to be the case.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't 4 coplanar points sufficient to define a parabola?


This was a math problem just begging to be solved. Three coplanar points are sufficient to define a parabola. There are two sequences with three points. Frames 212-214 and frames 219-221. You have infer where the projectile hit the Magic Kingdom in the final frame of each sequence. When we assume that the shape is a parabola, that means that we are ignoring air friction. We also need two more constants. I assumed that g = 9.8 m/s^2. I also assumed that Cueball's 33 pixel height is 1.8 meters.

The short of it is that the first sequence implies 0.92 seconds per frame. The second sequence implies 1.03 seconds per frame.

Ignoring air friction is not a bad assumption for rocks. The effect of air friction is to make the trajectory steeper at the end. Fitting a parabola to the three points will result in an overestimate of the height of the trajectory. So, assuming no air friction should cause us to overestimate the time per frame.

I think ignoring air friction is reasonable, and Randall may actually have done the math for the trajectories. But it's pretty clear that more than one second elapses between successive frames during other sequences in the One True Comic. So, newpix may be a constant unit of Time for Timewaiters, but it's not a constant unit of Time for Megan and Cueball.


There is one problem with this: 3 points is sufficient to define a parabola if it is assumed to have a given orientation, as in y = ax^2 + bx + c. If your x-y coordinate system is also arbitrarily placed within space, you need a 4th point to completely constrain the parabola, as you can have infinite parabolas passing through 3 points, each "pointing" in a different direction. Now, assuming that gravity works here as it does in the Outside, then we have a method of orienting our coordinate system, but some here may argue that this is one too many assumptions.

Also, I'd like to point out that a plane can be defined by any 3 points, and any group of 3 points can be considered co-planar.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Caswallon » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:57 pm UTC

udscbt wrote:
Caswallon wrote:
histrion wrote:I can't explain this, but for some reason the current slide...
...is so much more amusing because of those little flags behind Megan.


Has anyone else noticed the complete and total lack of wind? The flags have not moved one pixel since being erected.

I actually think that those are plastic flags.


That seems actually likely, in frames 163 & 183 when they are holding the fourth flag at an angle, it's banner is in the same position as when it is vertical.
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