1190: "Time"

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby udscbt » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:00 pm UTC

Image
DONG
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Flumble » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:02 pm UTC

KarMann wrote:
Flumble wrote:
higgs-boson wrote: It''s* retreat

*Its

You missed the coloured asterisk footnote, didn't you?

I assumed the "Heh" in the footer was out of despair (for lack of a better word) because the correct form couldn't get off the tip of his tongue.


mathrec wrote:So, newpix may be a constant unit of Time for Timewaiters, but it's not a constant unit of Time for Megan and Cueball.

In that case, would it not also be interesting to fit a curve (probably a high-degree polynomial) to map a number of newpix to time (taking f(0) = time at which the comic started)?

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby speising » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:07 pm UTC

i'd estimate it takes half an hour to plant each of those poles firmly into the ground. probably longer without any tools. yet it was done in two frames. that vs. the 1sec from the trebuchet frames gives a pretty wide span.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby kryton » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:08 pm UTC

HAL9000 wrote:
cmyk wrote:
speising wrote:we know one thing about this beach: there must be a hardware store very near by.


Or an IKEA.

Let's not go down that path again.


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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby histrion » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:12 pm UTC

udscbt wrote:
Caswallon wrote:
Has anyone else noticed the complete and total lack of wind? The flags have not moved one pixel since being erected.

I actually think that those are plastic flags.


Maybe they're eighth notes, and M&C are now building staves.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Valarya » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:20 pm UTC

udscbt wrote:Image
DONG


Maybe Megan is gonna be a human canonball and launch herself to destroy the tiny castles in one swoop!

edit: though that doesn't make sense with a 2nd possible platform space (2 right poles). So nvm.
Last edited by Valarya on Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:21 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Mikeski » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:20 pm UTC

histrion wrote:
udscbt wrote:
Caswallon wrote:Has anyone else noticed the complete and total lack of wind? The flags have not moved one pixel since being erected.

I actually think that those are plastic flags.

Maybe they're eighth notes, and M&C are now building staves.

There's never really been much for ripples or waves on the water, either. A few frames with a one-pixel difference, IIRC. So the air must be pretty still.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby histrion » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:26 pm UTC

Mikeski wrote:There's never really been much for ripples or waves on the water, either. A few frames with a one-pixel difference, IIRC. So the air must be pretty still.


Maybe they're actually in a giant hourglass. (Has anyone else suggested that yet?)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Pikrass » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:28 pm UTC

I wonder if the tiny replica will be updated after that...
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cmyk » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:29 pm UTC

Mikeski wrote:
histrion wrote:
udscbt wrote:
Caswallon wrote:Has anyone else noticed the complete and total lack of wind? The flags have not moved one pixel since being erected.

I actually think that those are plastic flags.

Maybe they're eighth notes, and M&C are now building staves.

There's never really been much for ripples or waves on the water, either. A few frames with a one-pixel difference, IIRC. So the air must be pretty still.


This had struck me a while ago, as well. I forgot to bring that up. Not sure if it was a production decision not to bother because it'd take too much effort to animate than worthwhile (although a set of random flag and wave states to turn on and off is trivial), or if it is indeed a real clue that something unnatural/not-as-it-seems is going on.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby kryton » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:30 pm UTC

imagineddragon wrote:
mathrec wrote:
Flado wrote:
cmyk wrote:Well, it depends. You'd need to know the mass, the surface drag of the projectile, and how many foot pounds of torque the launching arm had at release. Only after the the ballistic projectile's kinetic energy it recieved from the trebuchet has been overcome by gravity (at the apogee of its trajectory), can you then figure out the elapsed estimated time using 9.8m/s2 (and to get really nitpicky, without knowing the density, mass or surface drag, we can't figure its terminal velocity), but I doubt there's enough trajectory data points across frames to calculate with any meaningful accuracy, especially with all the other unknowns. This is also assuming elapsed time overall has remained a constant, which doesn't seem to be the case.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't 4 coplanar points sufficient to define a parabola?


This was a math problem just begging to be solved. Three coplanar points are sufficient to define a parabola. There are two sequences with three points. Frames 212-214 and frames 219-221. You have infer where the projectile hit the Magic Kingdom in the final frame of each sequence. When we assume that the shape is a parabola, that means that we are ignoring air friction. We also need two more constants. I assumed that g = 9.8 m/s^2. I also assumed that Cueball's 33 pixel height is 1.8 meters.

The short of it is that the first sequence implies 0.92 seconds per frame. The second sequence implies 1.03 seconds per frame.

Ignoring air friction is not a bad assumption for rocks. The effect of air friction is to make the trajectory steeper at the end. Fitting a parabola to the three points will result in an overestimate of the height of the trajectory. So, assuming no air friction should cause us to overestimate the time per frame.

I think ignoring air friction is reasonable, and Randall may actually have done the math for the trajectories. But it's pretty clear that more than one second elapses between successive frames during other sequences in the One True Comic. So, newpix may be a constant unit of Time for Timewaiters, but it's not a constant unit of Time for Megan and Cueball.


Cool! :) You should put the full theorem up on the wiki.



Since this is a ballistics problem, it is a given that the axis of symmatry is the y axis and it fits a standard form of y=a(x-h)2 +k where a < 0 and the point (h,k) is the apex of the trajectory (can be interpolated from the estimated path of the projectile) AND 2 additional points can be determined, aka the trebouchet and the point of impact which we see as the point of destruction, as well as the points along the path where the OneTrueComic captured them in mid flight.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby kryton » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:32 pm UTC

histrion wrote:
udscbt wrote:
Caswallon wrote:
Has anyone else noticed the complete and total lack of wind? The flags have not moved one pixel since being erected.

I actually think that those are plastic flags.


Maybe they're eighth notes, and M&C are now building staves.


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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby veryslightlygeeky » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:33 pm UTC

macraw83 wrote:Also, I'd like to point out that a plane can be defined by any 3 points, and any group of 3 points can be considered co-planar.

... as long as they are distinct and do not fall on a line.

Is anyone else rather concerned for Megan's safety?

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SBN » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:34 pm UTC

Valarya wrote:Maybe Megan is gonna be a human canonball and launch herself to destroy the tiny castles in one swoop!


Are canonballs used for a war of words?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cmyk » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:38 pm UTC

Hah. I just noticed that on the last trebuchet shot (frames 229 — 232), they misfire and the rock shoots straight up, so they scramble to get out of the way and it takes off the corner of the castle nearly hitting them. Then they come back and Megan builds her mound.

Nice touch.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby udscbt » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:41 pm UTC

Mikeski wrote:
histrion wrote:
udscbt wrote:
Caswallon wrote:Has anyone else noticed the complete and total lack of wind? The flags have not moved one pixel since being erected.

I actually think that those are plastic flags.

Maybe they're eighth notes, and M&C are now building staves.

There's never really been much for ripples or waves on the water, either. A few frames with a one-pixel difference, IIRC. So the air must be pretty still.

If the water (assuming it's water even if we shouldn't) is a small enough lake it's normal it looks almost still (if the wind is not TOO strong). We know that there's a sea, but we don't know where it is (just as we don't know where the river is). Obviously, if that is a small enough lake the rising is not caused by the tide... well, actually it could if Megan and Cueball are actually much smaller than humans, but it's probably caused by other factors.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Exodies » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:43 pm UTC

kryton wrote:
histrion wrote:
udscbt wrote:
Caswallon wrote:
Has anyone else noticed the complete and total lack of wind? The flags have not moved one pixel since being erected.

I actually think that those are plastic flags.


Maybe they're eighth notes, and M&C are now building staves.


Garrath Blackstock made them out of chocolate.


Maybe that musician who did the humming tune could orchestrate the flags seen as notes.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby dreiarmumig » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:43 pm UTC

cmyk wrote:Hah. I just noticed that on the last trebuchet shot (frames 229 — 232), they misfire and the rock shoots straight up, so they scramble to get out of the way and it takes off the corner of the castle nearly hitting them. Then they come back and Megan builds her mound.

Nice touch.

Ha! How cool is that! Nice catch,I never would've seen that

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Smithers » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:44 pm UTC

azule wrote:She's getting ready to hang herself. :shock:

higgs-boson wrote:
cmyk wrote:
azule wrote:*ahem* higgs-boson, I didn't say that. Quote fail!

Yeh! That was me!

Gosh. So much for "keeping the quotes short". Sorry.

It's all good. I've tried (and failed) to do exactly the same thing many times, too. I OCD my last post and fix those mistakes ASAP. Maybe I OCD'd your post. Apologies. lol.

My usual fail akin to this is trying to do multiple replies at once and pasting one quote inside another one.
higgs-boson wrote:It''s* retreat[...]
*Heh.

May you burn in a thousand hells for all eternity.
udscbt wrote:EDIT: btw, anyone good at analysis of italian poetry?

Only if by Italian poetry you mean "poetry written by Italians in the English language". My knowledge of the Italian language probably ranks slightly above my knowledge of COBOL and below my knowledge of INTERCAL (which I have used never and once, respectively).
Valarya wrote:
cmyk wrote:
jasonkoller wrote:Has any one put together a gif or mpeg of the images we've seen so far?


There's plenty, but I've been visiting this site. It's scrubbable, updates automatically, and has play/pause and speed controls.


Dude, where have you been. The Book of Aubron.

Someone was also asking for a single file gif version; in lieu of the auto-updating gif (which has been down for a while IIRC), there are the when-I-get-around-to-it-updating gifs, at http://smithers.net63.net/downloads/time-50.gif (2fps) and http://smithers.net63.net/downloads/time-10-100.gif (10fps, pause for text/tinytreb).

And finally:
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Exodies » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:45 pm UTC

I don't think I need to provide references, youse guys are on the ball. 'Strawberries' immediately invoked Doctor Who, even from a guy who hadn't seen it.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Caswallon » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:46 pm UTC

udscbt wrote:
Mikeski wrote:
histrion wrote:
udscbt wrote:
Caswallon wrote:Has anyone else noticed the complete and total lack of wind? The flags have not moved one pixel since being erected.

I actually think that those are plastic flags.

Maybe they're eighth notes, and M&C are now building staves.

There's never really been much for ripples or waves on the water, either. A few frames with a one-pixel difference, IIRC. So the air must be pretty still.

If the water (assuming it's water even if we shouldn't) is a small enough lake it's normal it looks almost still (if the wind is not TOO strong). We know that there's a sea, but we don't know where it is (just as we don't know where the river is). Obviously, if that is a small enough lake the rising is not caused by the tide... well, actually it could if Megan and Cueball are actually much smaller than humans, but it's probably caused by other factors.


It could be an inland sea, and may be on an inlet or other relatively sheltered area which would account for the lack of movement on the water other than a somewhat rising tide.

Another possible suggestions may be an artificial sea created by a dam slowly raising the level of the water hence a "river" :)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby flicky1991 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:53 pm UTC

histrion wrote:
Mikeski wrote:There's never really been much for ripples or waves on the water, either. A few frames with a one-pixel difference, IIRC. So the air must be pretty still.


Maybe they're actually in a giant hourglass. (Has anyone else suggested that yet?)

Wow, this is a great theory.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Signifer » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:57 pm UTC

udscbt wrote:EDIT: btw, anyone good at analysis of italian poetry?


Well, I am italian, but I don't think I would be able to explain poetry, since my english is quite awful

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Exodies » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:57 pm UTC

Valarya wrote:
udscbt wrote:Image
DONG


Maybe Megan is gonna be a human canonball and launch herself to destroy the tiny castles in one swoop!

edit: though that doesn't make sense with a 2nd possible platform space (2 right poles). So nvm.

The tops of the vertical poles are at the same height, she has lifted the cross piece onto the top so it now slopes down to the right. I spose she will move the ladder to the next pole and put the cross piece on top of that.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Exodies » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:59 pm UTC

Is the diff wizard in a coma?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby partingLance » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:00 pm UTC

lassehp wrote:
Flado wrote:
cmyk wrote:I predict it'll only be a matter of Time before somebody reenacts this entire comic with still photography.

"Entire", Sir? Do we know that?


Actually, I have been thinking about a similar idea: Making a movie that reenacts the entire comic live, using real actors, with only one camera, and only the zoom and pan used in the comic. But it would probably be very difficult, as I believe it should be done as one very long real-time shot. I suppose a madman like Lars von Trier could pull it off and make a hell of a movie. Of course as stick figures don't wear any clothes, it should be done as if it was at a nudist beach. :)

I wonder which actors could actually do this - who would you cast for Megan and Clueball?

/Lasse


... Summer Glau and Patrick Stewart?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SBN » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:01 pm UTC

flicky1991 wrote:
histrion wrote:
Mikeski wrote:There's never really been much for ripples or waves on the water, either. A few frames with a one-pixel difference, IIRC. So the air must be pretty still.


Maybe they're actually in a giant hourglass. (Has anyone else suggested that yet?)

Wow, this is a great theory.


Angelastic wrote:
Forbidden 403 wrote:
kaley wrote:I think there should be a sand castle starting about here.


I believe you maybe right. Positive outlook about the comic now :D

Or an hourglass full of sand. To represent time.
Or a sand replica of the first panel, which will evolve into a sand replica of the sand replica panel, and so on...


First suggested on page 6
astrotter wrote:It is not particularly clear to me at this time that we are not overanalyzing this...

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SBN » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:02 pm UTC

Exodies wrote:
Valarya wrote:
udscbt wrote:Image
DONG


Maybe Megan is gonna be a human canonball and launch herself to destroy the tiny castles in one swoop!

edit: though that doesn't make sense with a 2nd possible platform space (2 right poles). So nvm.

The tops of the vertical poles are at the same height, she has lifted the cross piece onto the top so it now slopes down to the right. I spose she will move the ladder to the next pole and put the cross piece on top of that.


You called it.
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astrotter wrote:It is not particularly clear to me at this time that we are not overanalyzing this...

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby udscbt » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:04 pm UTC

Smithers wrote:
udscbt wrote:EDIT: btw, anyone good at analysis of italian poetry?

Only if by Italian poetry you mean "poetry written by Italians in the English language". My knowledge of the Italian language probably ranks slightly above my knowledge of COBOL and below my knowledge of INTERCAL (which I have used never and once, respectively).

Unluckily it is poetry written by Italians in the Italian language (at least it is "modern" Italian and not some Vulgar dialect of Latin), but anyway I've already done that. But you've helped me anyway, because I couldn't remember the name of INTERCAL, I only remembered something similar to the full name.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/time/a2c0f3ed4be680f5b794f0137a55af8704598a2105e1eff5fce750b07800c19b.png [EDIT: ninja'd]
No Cueball, don't do that!
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bigcrag92 wrote:I Bigcrag92 being of soundish mind yada yada yada do ratify the cardinalship of udscbt nominated by buffygirl. may I and buffygirl be stuck down if we have erred in this decision.

bigcrag92 (continued...) wrote:by the power vested in me I now name you Cardinal peanut butter and jelly sandwich udscbt. arise my brethren

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Smithers » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:12 pm UTC

udscbt wrote:
Smithers wrote:
udscbt wrote:EDIT: btw, anyone good at analysis of italian poetry?

Only if by Italian poetry you mean "poetry written by Italians in the English language". My knowledge of the Italian language probably ranks slightly above my knowledge of COBOL and below my knowledge of INTERCAL (which I have used never and once, respectively).

Unluckily it is poetry written by Italians in the Italian language (at least it is "modern" Italian and not some Vulgar dialect of Latin), but anyway I've already done that. But you've helped me anyway, because I couldn't remember the name of INTERCAL, I only remembered something similar to the full name.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/time/a2c0f3ed4be680f5b794f0137a55af8704598a2105e1eff5fce750b07800c19b.png [EDIT: ninja'd]
No Cueball, don't do that!

Actually, my skills regarding any kind of poetry are probably comparable to my skills with Compiler Language With No Pronounceable Acronym.
Lord Randall, Creator of the One True Comic wrote:Wait for it.

Helper wrote:The great thing about this needle-pulled thing be that it tin turn ænig everyday situation into an hilarious nightmare:
Helper goeth to Starbux:
"ic'd like an coffee, please. Hold the baby!"
"hwæt? eow be, like, weird."
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Mikeski » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:14 pm UTC

flicky1991 wrote:
histrion wrote:
Mikeski wrote:There's never really been much for ripples or waves on the water, either. A few frames with a one-pixel difference, IIRC. So the air must be pretty still.

Maybe they're actually in a giant hourglass. (Has anyone else suggested that yet?)

Wow, this is a great theory.

Hourglasses don't usually contain water, tides, trebuchets, poles, or rope.

(Or people, who would likely not survive the first turning of said hourglass).

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby htom » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:16 pm UTC

They will sit on the plank and watch the castles be washed away. So what are the other posts for?
cmyk wrote:How can I be so riveted to the Internet equivalent of watching grass grow?

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby imagineddragon » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:17 pm UTC

SBN wrote:
Exodies wrote:
Valarya wrote:
udscbt wrote:Image
DONG


Maybe Megan is gonna be a human canonball and launch herself to destroy the tiny castles in one swoop!

edit: though that doesn't make sense with a 2nd possible platform space (2 right poles). So nvm.

The tops of the vertical poles are at the same height, she has lifted the cross piece onto the top so it now slopes down to the right. I spose she will move the ladder to the next pole and put the cross piece on top of that.


You called it.
Image


instead of the rational explanation that Megan climbed down and repositioned the ladder, I like to believe that we all missed a really great acrobatics trick during that blank-out.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Tom Ames » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:18 pm UTC

Gallows, one for each of them.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Flado » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:20 pm UTC

cmyk wrote:AM I NOT YOUR PROPHET?!

Too late for that:
"Only the true Messiah denies his divinity!"

On an unrelated note: Yay, I'm big enough to have a sig!
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Smithers » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:21 pm UTC

Flado wrote:
cmyk wrote:AM I NOT YOUR PROPHET?!

Too late for that:
"Only the true Messiah denies his divinity!"

On an unrelated note: Yay, I'm big enough to have a sig!

I AM NOT YOUR PROPHET!!
Lord Randall, Creator of the One True Comic wrote:Wait for it.

Helper wrote:The great thing about this needle-pulled thing be that it tin turn ænig everyday situation into an hilarious nightmare:
Helper goeth to Starbux:
"ic'd like an coffee, please. Hold the baby!"
"hwæt? eow be, like, weird."
"Y-Y-You too.FULL STOPFULL STOP"

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Angelastic » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:27 pm UTC

Mikeski wrote:Hourglasses don't usually contain water, tides, trebuchets, poles, or rope.

(Or people, who would likely not survive the first turning of said hourglass).

When I first suggested they were inside a giant hourglass, there were no trebuchets, poles, or rope, and I'm not sure whether there had even been a pixel of tide yet. But the water put a bit of a damper on things. :) I'm still considering making my own animation using the frames up to before the zoom, possibly without the toe dipping in the water/coffee/semen, then having the ground suddenly move and the camera zoom out to show they're in an hourglass that's tipping over. They'd probably be buried, but I might leave an arm or a bit of a head sticking up to allow for ambiguity. Maybe they'd end up stuck in the neck in the top half of the hourglass, smooching. Because that's when you do when your life's been flip-turned upside down and you are not sure how much Time you have.

Edit: Still, if there are poles inside an hourglass, they could be trying to get higher in order to reach the neck and climb into the top half so they can smooch.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SnuggleVolt » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:32 pm UTC

I'm imagining that in a few frames they'll have one trapeze set up on each frame and begin swinging between them.

Though not long ago I could never have imagined how long I'd stay interested in one frame of a comic.

EDIT: Sorry, catching up on reading...I'm nowhere near the first to mention the trapeze. Still, it's fun to think about.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Flado » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:36 pm UTC

Smithers wrote:I AM NOT YOUR PROPHET!!

There you go. The true prophet. And not. The Western Paradox Church hails you.
You two sort it out. I'm transcending to coma.
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All the stars are dust on my screen -- Marsh'n
The best computer game is a compiler. -- Exodies
I thought I was wrong, but it turned out I was mistaken. -- ucim
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SBN » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:37 pm UTC

Mikeski wrote:
flicky1991 wrote:
histrion wrote:
Mikeski wrote:There's never really been much for ripples or waves on the water, either. A few frames with a one-pixel difference, IIRC. So the air must be pretty still.

Maybe they're actually in a giant hourglass. (Has anyone else suggested that yet?)

Wow, this is a great theory.

Hourglasses don't usually contain water, tides, trebuchets, poles, or rope.

(Or people, who would likely not survive the first turning of said hourglass).


But what if it is a snow-globe?
astrotter wrote:It is not particularly clear to me at this time that we are not overanalyzing this...

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