1190: "Time"

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KarMann
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby KarMann » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:15 am UTC

Angelastic wrote:What are people using to measure the pixel values in their browsers? My first instinct if I wanted to do that would be to open the file in an image-editing program; I don't think I even have any tools handy to directly measure the colour on the screen. But it seems like several people have posted the values it's displayed as in their browsers without even thinking about using an image-editing program, so I'm wondering if there's some simple built-in 'tell me what colour this pixel on the screen is' thingy that I'm not aware of.

I use Firefox with at least two such add-on extensions, called ColorZilla & Rainbow. FWIW, I use it on Linux, and it seems to agree with the values generally agreed upon, i.e. #01, #02, #04 so far.
Added: Just to make sure it's clear, though, my main tool for this image is the GIMP. Those browser tools are more for work stuff, and I hadn't even tried them on XKCD until I started wondering now what values they'd give.
Last edited by KarMann on Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:18 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby aeglaeca » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:16 am UTC

Latent22 wrote:
VeloCityGirl wrote:
Latent22 wrote:Edit: added future prediction which based on a 3rd degree polynomial trend line we get full white at 978


What will the sea level be by 978?

I calculate 8 pixels higher based on recent trends

I wonder at what point does the sand under/around the posts give way. From NewPixs 448-458, doesn't look like Megan dug down too far. I'd imagine as the sea* rises, it'll affect the foundation somewhat, with all the weight on top. The top layer might collapse before the bottom gets washed away. Also, if the posts were put directly into the beach sand, that surface¥ is already below the current sea* level, at least on the right side (see pic).

* which is big.
¥ including where they were sitting at the beginning of Time
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby KarMann » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:19 am UTC

Another random thought:
The sea, which is big, is incrementing.
C++
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Rick_LANL » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:22 am UTC

I saved the source image, opened it in Matlab, and made a mask showing all the pixels with value 5. I wanted to post the resulting .png here, but I don't see how. Either it's because this is my first post and I don't have the permissions, or it's because I'm dense. But it was all of the black, except for bits around the edges due to the aforementioned antialiasing, and the frame.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Valarya » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:26 am UTC

aeglaeca wrote:<snip>
I wonder at what point does the sand under/around the posts give way. From NewPixs 448-458, doesn't look like Megan dug down too far. I'd imagine as the sea* rises, it'll affect the foundation somewhat, with all the weight on top. The top layer might collapse before the bottom gets washed away. Also, if the posts were put directly into the beach sand, that surface¥ is already below the current sea* level, at least on the right side (see pic).

* which is big.
¥ including where they were sitting at the beginning of Time


Wow, the original far right tower and it's flag fell down so long ago that I had completely forgotten her new dike WAS that original tower!! So the new far right tower that's beginning to crumble was the 2nd right tower originally... past that first bridge. I love seeing how far the sea has actually risen, thanks for sharing that.

I haven't watched the full comic on Aubronwood in a long time (I usually just hit the back arrow to see the few frames I miss whilst in coma) so I just sped it up and stared at the sea. Super neat stuff especially since we've only been seeing the changes in increments of 25 newpix or so.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby buffygirl » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:40 am UTC

For RobIrr and Angelastic.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby vvn » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:42 am UTC

I too am in fear of the end of Time, and I hope for a fade to a continuation.
A different possibility has occurred to me. What if Time ends, and then in some number of new pix a comic appears titled "Time 2". Adventure continues....

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby chem1190c » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:49 am UTC

vvn wrote:I too am in fear of the end of Time, and I hope for a fade to a continuation.
A different possibility has occurred to me. What if Time ends, and then in some number of new pix a comic appears titled "Time 2". Adventure continues....



That's just silly, all the good sequels use roman numerals..

"Time II: The Wrath of Time"

edit: On a side note, can I have a hat too?
Last edited by chem1190c on Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:54 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby buffygirl » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:53 am UTC

Wait, there's stuff going on while I'm making hats? How dare ... stuff .... defy my ... buffidashery ....
a bit self-hat-absorbed at the moment. Got an unknown impending deadline! 7 hats to go.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby KarMann » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:00 am UTC

VIETCONG!!
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Added: Value of dark areas is now 6; I'm starting to see it myself, I think.
Last edited by KarMann on Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:02 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby vvn » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:01 am UTC

chem1190c wrote:
vvn wrote:I too am in fear of the end of Time, and I hope for a fade to a continuation.
A different possibility has occurred to me. What if Time ends, and then in some number of new pix a comic appears titled "Time 2". Adventure continues....



That's just silly, all the good sequels use roman numerals..

"Time II: The Wrath of Time"


But, the xkcd sequels:

1337: Part 2
Choices: Part 2
The Race: Part 2
Secretary: Part 2
Journal 2
And probably others I have missed.....
I guess I should have said "Time: Part 2".

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Latent22 » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:01 am UTC

now at #060606

Edit: note adding the last two frames to the graph still has the same predicted 978 point for when it hits pure white. but we don't have enough info yet to predict it accurately yet.
Last edited by Latent22 on Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:10 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby AluisioASG » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:08 am UTC

buffygirl wrote:Wait, there's stuff going on while I'm making hats? How dare ... stuff .... defy my ... buffidashery ....
a bit self-hat-absorbed at the moment. Got an unknown impending deadline! 7 hats to go.

Time (and tide?) waits for no one (or something like that).
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Kieryn » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:12 am UTC

Latent22 wrote:"sea" level rise is accelerating a lot in the last 10 frames!!! someone needs to do another level graph!


Unfortunately the greyingness messes up my algorithm, and also about to publish version one of another project before I coma. Earliest I expect I can get to this is in about 20 newpix.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ggh » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:14 am UTC

Latent22 wrote:now at #060606


Sorry, I'm about to reveal some ignorance.
I'm not used to working with colours in that format.
In an image editor I trust, I'm seeing 18% grey. (46 out of 255, where the last one was 43 of 255).
Is #060606 the same thing?

Also, if I were doing a fade, I might use an ease-in/ease-out curve....

Edit: Google says no. Hmmm.

Edit 2: I usually use Chrome, but opened Safari, which looks much darker. Images downloaded from both browsers show up as 46/255, but then if I apply the inverted standard 2.2 gamma, I get 6/255. So that's it.
Last edited by ggh on Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:32 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Latent22 » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:29 am UTC

ggh wrote:
Latent22 wrote:now at #060606


Sorry, I'm about to reveal some ignorance.
I'm not used to working with colours in that format.
In an image editor I trust, I'm seeing 18% grey. (46 out of 255, where the last one was 43 of 255).
Is #060606 the same thing?

Also, if I were doing a fade, I might use an ease-in/ease-out curve....

Edit: Google says no. Hmmm.


#060606 means 6/255 of Red, 6/255 Green and 6/255 Blue. Note that this format is hexadecimal so after 09 it goes to 0A etc. And the max value or white is #FFFFFF.

for you to get 43/255 it means you must be looking at the output of a browser like chrome that has a major gamma correction changing the colour for you. Best to download the image and then open that dirrectly.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby tman2nd » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:29 am UTC

vvn wrote:I too am in fear of the end of Time, and I hope for a fade to a continuation.
A different possibility has occurred to me. What if Time ends, and then in some number of new pix a comic appears titled "Time 2". Adventure continues....

We would need to move to the new thread for that comic if that happens. I suspect we would come into contact with the other forum dwellers for a time*.

*Pun not intended
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby vvn » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:31 am UTC

ggh wrote:Sorry, I'm about to reveal some ignorance.
I'm not used to working with colours in that format.
In an image editor I trust, I'm seeing 18% grey. (46 out of 255, where the last one was 43 of 255).
Is #060606 the same thing?


No. This for matis two characters for each color of Red, Green, Blue. Since the comic is greyscale, all three numbers will be the same. Each two characters is a two digit Hexadecimal number going from 00 to FF. In base 10 that is 0 to 255. #06 is the same as 6. So, it would be (6/255)*100 = 2 to get percent. 18% would be #2D2D2D.

I would guess you are subject to the browser problems people have been talking about.

Ninja'd
Last edited by vvn on Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:50 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ggh » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:36 am UTC

Latent22 wrote:for you to get 43/255 it means you must be looking at the output of a browser like chrome that has a major gamma correction changing the colour for you. Best to download the image and then open that dirrectly.


btw, I edited to say an inverse2.2 gamma fixes it, but another silly question:

I did download, but I downloaded using the browsers (even the dark Safari download read as 46).
How are y'all downloading?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Latent22 » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:47 am UTC

ggh wrote:
Latent22 wrote:for you to get 43/255 it means you must be looking at the output of a browser like chrome that has a major gamma correction changing the colour for you. Best to download the image and then open that dirrectly.


btw, I edited to say an inverse2.2 gamma fixes it, but another silly question:

I did download, but I downloaded using the browsers (even the dark Safari download read as 46).
How are y'all downloading?

I just right click 'Save Image as" Should not matter how you download it the source .png will always be the same. The only exception is if you screen capture etc. If its not saying 6 in your image editing software then try a different program and check nothing is being applied to the image when you open it.

Edit: I would say that the different browser differences we see are just done at graphics rendering time. The source png file will be the same data no matter what. Your browser downloads the image and stores it in your local browser cache folder (and probably in memory as well) and then renders it to screen with any colour change/gamma correction it chooses applied. If I load the comic in chrome and it looks grey then right click save image as and open the image in a photo viewer it looks black.
Last edited by Latent22 on Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:53 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ChronosDragon » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:48 am UTC

KarMann wrote:Another random thought:
The sea, which is big, is incrementing.
C++


I...
I don't...

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby tastony » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:50 am UTC

I found it quick stunning how different the 'colour'1looks in a picture editor, rather than in IE. IE still looks essentially black, but saving and opening the image in almost anything else shows it noticeably lighter. Really makes you wonder what 'reality' is, when the same image can be seen in such a different manner.

Such a sad 'bye'. It was was beginning to feel like Time would never end. Maybe this will be like the heat death of the universe, where it continues on forever, but with no frame of reference by which to measure change, no one will ever know...

1 Is black a colour? And I'm in Australia, that's how we spell it here...
I waited.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ggh » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:55 am UTC

Latent22 wrote:
Spoiler:
I just right click 'Save Image as" Should not matter how you download it the source .png will always be the same. The only exception is if you screen capture etc. If its not saying 6 in your image editing software then try a different program and check nothing is being applied to the image when you open it.


Huh, that's how I was doing it too.
Horrifying that I may have forgotten how to use Shake....
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Kieryn » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:00 am UTC

Okay, version 1.0 is here! http://xkcd-time.kieryn.com/
I will be updating with more features as Time goes on...

Sciscitor wrote:Update on the plain-text version of the needle pulled thing up to posting 164401.

If there is any interest in having such a thing I would consider setting up an easy to use API (like Time/api/text/user) to pull the text of specific users from the thread. Since it's all in the database anyway, it wouldn't be too much trouble.

1 The lag is intentional to catch all first user posts after moderation has kicked in.


Sorry - Ninja'd in a way I guess... I've been working on this for about a week...
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Latent22 » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:01 am UTC

tastony wrote:I found it quick stunning how different the 'colour'1looks in a picture editor, rather than in IE. IE still looks essentially black, but saving and opening the image in almost anything else shows it noticeably lighter. Really makes you wonder what 'reality' is, when the same image can be seen in such a different manner.

Such a sad 'bye'. It was was beginning to feel like Time would never end. Maybe this will be like the heat death of the universe, where it continues on forever, but with no frame of reference by which to measure change, no one will ever know...

1 Is black a colour? And I'm in Australia, that's how we spell it here...

The problem is there is no set way to display a gradient of colours from 0-255. Every monitor is different and displaying different colour intensities differently. The contrast and brightness settings on your monitor will change it. The light in your room will change it. Even your eyes will change it. Often graphics cards and your OS will have colour/gamma profiles that can be calibrated to your monitor and these automatically change every thing from one scale of black to white to another to try and make it match something else. If you did publishing etc then you would spend thousands of $ on expensive equipment to help you calibrate it properly so it matched what you print etc. Each Application can also choose to adjust things.

So the moral is it doesn't matter whats showing on your screen in this case because that is never a constant. All that matters is what is in the original PNG file data.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cari.j.elliot » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:02 am UTC

I really miss Cueball and Megan.
I would like to request that anyone currently doing whatever and posting a large (or even medium) number/volume of responses in a singe post should
Spoiler:
spoiler them.
Thank you.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby StratPlayer » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:04 am UTC

Stretch ArmstrONG!

Spoiler:
Image


Image

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cari.j.elliot » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:05 am UTC

BlitzGirl!!! Check your hair. Make sure its not turning slowly Grey! This seems to be happening in the future/present. Just hope your not effected as well.


Effect:
Noun
A change that is a result or consequence of an action or other cause.
Verb
Cause (something) to happen; bring about.

Affect :
Verb
Have an effect on; make a difference to: "the dampness began to affect my health".
Pretend to have or feel (something): "as usual I affected a supreme unconcern".
Noun
Emotion or desire, esp. as influencing behavior or action.
I would like to request that anyone currently doing whatever and posting a large (or even medium) number/volume of responses in a singe post should
Spoiler:
spoiler them.
Thank you.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby vvn » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:07 am UTC

#060606 by my reckoning.

Edit: Very visible difference between GIMP and Chrome on Linux.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby StratPlayer » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:16 am UTC

cari.j.elliot wrote:
BlitzGirl!!! Check your hair. Make sure its not turning slowly Grey! This seems to be happening in the future/present. Just hope your not effected as well.


Effect:
Noun
A change that is a result or consequence of an action or other cause.
Verb
Cause (something) to happen; bring about.

Affect :
Verb
Have an effect on; make a difference to: "the dampness began to affect my health".
Pretend to have or feel (something): "as usual I affected a supreme unconcern".
Noun
Emotion or desire, esp. as influencing behavior or action.


And nothing on the "your/you're" ??? C'mon -- if you want to be a GrammarNazi, you can't do it half-way...


ETA: Just to clarify, I'm totally joking, here. I think the stress of not knowing what is going to come of the slow fade is getting us a little tense....

ETA-2: Like, if someone were cranky and wanted to pounce on the annoying habit some people have of over-ellipsifying everything...

ETA-3: Man, I hope Time doesn't just fade to white and then... nothin'.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Latent22 » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:21 am UTC

StratPlayer wrote:
cari.j.elliot wrote:
BlitzGirl!!! Check your hair. Make sure its not turning slowly Grey! This seems to be happening in the future/present. Just hope your not effected as well.


Effect:
Noun
A change that is a result or consequence of an action or other cause.
Verb
Cause (something) to happen; bring about.

Affect :
Verb
Have an effect on; make a difference to: "the dampness began to affect my health".
Pretend to have or feel (something): "as usual I affected a supreme unconcern".
Noun
Emotion or desire, esp. as influencing behavior or action.


And nothing on the "your/you're" ??? C'mon -- if you want to be a GrammarNazi, you can't do it half-way...

Spelling and grammar are not my strongest suits :)

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby AK49BWL » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:24 am UTC

StratPlayer wrote:
cari.j.elliot wrote:
BlitzGirl!!! Check your hair. Make sure its not turning slowly Grey! This seems to be happening in the future/present. Just hope your not effected as well.


Effect:
Noun
A change that is a result or consequence of an action or other cause.
Verb
Cause (something) to happen; bring about.

Affect :
Verb
Have an effect on; make a difference to: "the dampness began to affect my health".
Pretend to have or feel (something): "as usual I affected a supreme unconcern".
Noun
Emotion or desire, esp. as influencing behavior or action.


And nothing on the "your/you're" ??? C'mon -- if you want to be a GrammarNazi, you can't do it half-way...


ETA: Just to clarify, I'm totally joking, here. I think the stress of not knowing what is going to come of the slow fade is getting us a little tense....

ETA-2: Like, if someone were cranky and wanted to pounce on the annoying habit some people have of over-ellipsifying everything...

ETA-3: Man, I hope Time doesn't just fade to white and then... nothin'.


The "its" is misused as well, if we're really going for semantics :P
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ggh » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:29 am UTC

vvn wrote:#060606 by my reckoning.

Edit: Very visible difference between GIMP and Chrome on Linux.


ah, okay this is starting to make sense. PNGs have embedded colour profiles. looks like GIMP is using them and Chrome is not.
I would say that my viewer is also not using it and bringing in the data raw. 46 is raw, 6 is with the colour profile applied.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Latent22 » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:30 am UTC

Looks like the stagnation of Time has reduced us to doing nothing but discussing the interpretation of colour values on computers and fixing each others spelling :(

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby StratPlayer » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:32 am UTC

Pfffft... Who cares about grammar and semantics? I'm too busy enjoying all the cute kitty avatars. :D

As an animal lover, I like being in the herd* of cats.

*Herd? Flock? Bevy? What do you call a caboodle of cats????
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Latent22 » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:34 am UTC

StratPlayer wrote:Pfffft... Who cares about grammar and semantics? I'm too busy enjoying all the cute kitty avatars. :D

As an animal lover, I like being in the herd* of cats.

*Herd? Flock? Bevy? What do you call a caboodle of cats????

Clowder.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby buffygirl » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:34 am UTC

Long Live the Sagittarons! (sorry, on Season 3 episode 14). LOVE YOU ALL! Will be making more hats soon.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Valarya » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:35 am UTC

cari.j.elliot wrote:I really miss Cueball and Megan.


ahhh-yup. *nods vigorously*
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby StratPlayer » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:37 am UTC

Latent22 wrote:
StratPlayer wrote:Pfffft... Who cares about grammar and semantics? I'm too busy enjoying all the cute kitty avatars. :D

As an animal lover, I like being in the herd* of cats.

*Herd? Flock? Bevy? What do you call a caboodle of cats????

Clowder.


Seriously???

*quick Google check*

Well, I'll be damned! I learned a cool new word. :D


ETA: And after more research, have also discovered that a group of kittens is a "kindle"!!! Wonder if Amazon knows that...

ETA2: Although, after more research, it does seem that "kindle" typically refers to baby rabbits. But Kittens, too.

ETA3: Yeah... I miss Megan and Cueball, too!

ETA4: Whoops! -- The conversation's gone on to a NewPage without me... I'll go catch up, now.
Last edited by StratPlayer on Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:45 am UTC, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby azule » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:37 am UTC

Smithers wrote:
azule wrote:Could it be that M$ (yes, I just did that) messed with the ability of the other browsers to work properly on their competitor's OS?

I believe the intended meaning was that Mi¢rosoft were messing with other browsers' (e.g. Firefox's) ability to work properly on their (e.g. Mozilla's) competitor's (i.e. Microsoft's) OS (i.e. ₩indows). The phrasing and the ambiguous "their" makes this reading a little awkward, however.

That's correct. lol. I was aware of my ambiguous "their"...*shrug*..I guess I shouldn't have thought I could get away with that on the internet. lol.
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