1190: "Time"

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby patzer » Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:55 am UTC

azule wrote:
patzer wrote:Now I have a problem
Do I put the original PNGs on the wiki, or do I convert the images to JPGs so they are displayed correctly?

Originals, with a note. The transition is perceivable and that's the important thing.

The problem with this, someone said that by the time it gets a lot brighter, the images as viewed on google chrome will be almost impossible to see, as the grey will appear white. is this correct?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cmyk » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:01 am UTC

SALAD TONGS!

Image

Grayscale: 88%
Hex: 2d2d2d
RGB: r45, g45, b45

ETA: Whoops! Linked to old hash!
Last edited by cmyk on Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:20 am UTC, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Angelastic » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:03 am UTC

As PFAN/P (does P=NP here?), I decree that the original images are canon, converting to jpg is heresy, and if people use browsers that display the colours incorrectly, that's their problem.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SBN » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:05 am UTC

patzer wrote:The problem with this, someone said that by the time it gets a lot brighter, the images as viewed on google chrome will be almost impossible to see, as the grey will appear white. is this correct?

Isn't the issue with chrome a kind of rounding error? I get that it got grayer faster there, but I don't think the white is any whiter, so doesn't it have to even out some time? I'm still not completely sure how it helps to save the file differently, unless I'm also viewing it differently.

Sorry if this is completely ignorant, I realize I have a big knowledge gap here, so feel free to enlighten me.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby jjjdavidson » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:08 am UTC

azule wrote:
patzer wrote:Now I have a problem
Do I put the original PNGs on the wiki, or do I convert the images to JPGs so they are displayed correctly?

Originals, with a note. The transition is perceivable and that's the important thing.

Angelastic wrote:As PFAN/P (does P=NP here?), I decree that the original images are canon, converting to jpg is heresy, and if people use browsers that display the colours incorrectly, that's their problem.

What azule and Angelastic said! Please, preserve the original PNG files. jpeg is a lossy and corrupt format; it loses data and introduces artifacts.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:10 am UTC

Retroninja'd.
Spoiler:
UNDERFONGGGGGGGG...
Image

-- posted by newpixbot
Last edited by mscha on Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:29 am UTC, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby patzer » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:13 am UTC

SBN wrote:
patzer wrote:The problem with this, someone said that by the time it gets a lot brighter, the images as viewed on google chrome will be almost impossible to see, as the grey will appear white. is this correct?

Isn't the issue with chrome a kind of rounding error? I get that it got grayer faster there, but I don't think the white is any whiter, so doesn't it have to even out some time? I'm still not completely sure how it helps to save the file differently, unless I'm also viewing it differently.

Sorry if this is completely ignorant, I realize I have a big knowledge gap here, so feel free to enlighten me.

I don't know much about this either, but see this post, as you can see it is very difficult to tell the difference when it gets lighter.

But it appears I am suggesting people notice my haircut (?), so I'll just put the PNGs up.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby AluisioASG » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:15 am UTC

Listen, my friends!
We are on the verge of NewPage 430; the page prophesied to be the one from The Archduchess' Great Triumphal Arrival!
We need moar posts!
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby buffygirl » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:19 am UTC

@cmyk: my feelings is hurts.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cmyk » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:21 am UTC

buffygirl wrote:@cmyk: my feelings is hurts.


I so sorry... was posting in... *gasp*... another thread. I promise to change back! Please forgive!
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby buffygirl » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:25 am UTC

cmyk wrote:
buffygirl wrote:@cmyk: my feelings is hurts.


I so sorry... was posting in... *gasp*... another thread. I promise to change back! Please forgive!

*gigges* s'okay. 8-)

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Kieryn » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:28 am UTC

It feels like things are really slowing down here; posts are becoming less frequent than newpix. However I am not giving up... More data is required. More data will always be required.

I am in the process of re-purposing http://xkcd-time.kieryn.com to be a go-to point for all of my One True Comic/Thread dedication, including the forum API.
I will be adding dynamic charts tomorrow.

Onwards in Time. In reality, Time never ends. The One True Comic will live on forever, if in ways undefinable.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ronaldkr » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:28 am UTC

patzer wrote:I converted the latest image to a .jpg, like someone suggested.
Spoiler:
Image


Now I have a problem
Do I put the original PNGs on the wiki, or do I convert the images to JPGs so they are displayed correctly?


(in a hurry)

NOOOO

save the originals, you can discard information later (and for yourself!)

Edit:
Sorry for thr hacked-off answer.

Do you really want to change the observable material instead of the observation tools? C'mon. I noticed that the PNGs come in as grayscales and with a color profile of "20% dot gain". So, if chrome puts the picture on the screen and applies the color profile -- thinking the screen is a printing device --, the middle tones get brighter by 20% in anticipation of offset printing ink spreading aroung the raster dots, making the picture darker by 20% again.

IE and Opera seem to be immune from this effect. MS Paint does not know about color profiles.

Photoshop: v.6 (please do not laugh hysterically) by default gives the correct values. CS2 has a lot of arcane settings to disable the application of color profiles, distributed over at least three dialog boxes and with scopes between "per document" and "general settings°.

If you save as JPEG, you will not only lose the color profile (perhaps an indication that Randall plans a print edition), but worse, you will introduce artifacts into hitherto constant-colored areas. To top that, these artifacts will be colorful as the grayscale image will have to be elated to a RGB picture to allow JPEG compression.
Last edited by ronaldkr on Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:45 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby buffygirl » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:29 am UTC

NOTICE:
Now taking applications for milliner's apprentice. No experience required. Must be willing to be bossed around mercilessly. Apply within.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:29 am UTC

cmyk wrote:Grayscale: 88%
Hex: 2d2d2d
RGB: r45, g45, b45

Nu-uh... #1f1f1f. Bad enough, another jump of two, from #1d1d1d.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby KarMann » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:30 am UTC

cmyk wrote:SALAD TONGS!

Spoiler:
Image


Grayscale: 88%
Hex: 2d2d2d
RGB: r45, g45, b45

ETA: Whoops! Linked to old hash!

Eh? You too, now? I'm showing 31, #1f1f1f, for this one. And that seems to fit with the gr[ae]yscale 88% figure, if I assume that that percentage increases with darkness, and so it's equivalent to 12%. 0.12 × 255 = 30.6
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby azule » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:34 am UTC

cmyk wrote:
buffygirl wrote:@cmyk: my feelings is hurts.


I so sorry... was posting in... *gasp*... another thread. I promise to change back! Please forgive!


Off-topic post is off-topic. I mean, there's a topic for that. Why not post there, buffygirl?
It appears to be this comment causing a stink:
cmyk wrote:As a rule, I tend to avoid them. I find it disheartening for anyone to ever declare a "need" for an -ism, perceived pro or con, as definitions of such are ultimately plastic and abusable by the most egregious of us just looking for an umbrella to position over their uncritically thinking head and band together on shifting social or political sands.

Could it be the "umbrella" over their "head" comment....something similar to a HAT! Poor, buffygirl, you have more worth than just a hatmaker. :)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby jjjdavidson » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:34 am UTC

buffygirl wrote:
cmyk wrote:
buffygirl wrote:@cmyk: my feelings is hurts.

I so sorry... was posting in... *gasp*... another thread. I promise to change back! Please forgive!

*gigges* s'okay. 8-)

I sort of flipped, myself--not that it's any skin off my horse if cmyk rejects a buffyhat, but the idea that any of these hats could just evaporate in the future. Somebody less lazy than me: Please create a page in the wiki for all of buffygirl's hats, preferably with before-and-after comparisons. (We who have been the recipients will help collect the befores, I promise.)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby AluisioASG » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:35 am UTC

buffygirl wrote:NOTICE:
Now taking applications for milliner's apprentice. No experience required. Must be willing to be bossed around mercilessly. Apply within.

Hmm, I'm afraid to ask.


Where?
Gingercat wrote:Yeah, my players just decided to sit back and watch the Nukewisp frenzy itself to Annihilation-level fire energy, THEN they killed it.
Thus ended that campaign.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:36 am UTC

Note to all *ONGers: please post the correct link on your first attempt from now on, since it's way past coma time for me, and I'm not gonna stay up to retroninjaspoiler more newpixbot posts. :)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby jjjdavidson » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:37 am UTC

AluisioASG wrote:
buffygirl wrote:NOTICE:
Now taking applications for milliner's apprentice. No experience required. Must be willing to be bossed around mercilessly. Apply within.

Hmm, I'm afraid to ask.


Where?

Hey, be good; she's married.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cmyk » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:42 am UTC

SBN wrote:
patzer wrote:The problem with this, someone said that by the time it gets a lot brighter, the images as viewed on google chrome will be almost impossible to see, as the grey will appear white. is this correct?

Isn't the issue with chrome a kind of rounding error? I get that it got grayer faster there, but I don't think the white is any whiter, so doesn't it have to even out some time? I'm still not completely sure how it helps to save the file differently, unless I'm also viewing it differently.

Sorry if this is completely ignorant, I realize I have a big knowledge gap here, so feel free to enlighten me.


The real issue is sort of complicated.

Everyone's monitor displays some sort of gamma correction.

Different browsers seem to apply their own gamma correction on top of your display's gamma setting.

I can't confirm whether or not the .png itself has a color profile embedded in it.

Chrome, it seems, displays a pure linear gamma (that is no gamma-correction).

As seen here, the top row has a gamma correction function curve applied to achieve a more perceptual gradation from black to white as displayed on sRGM monitors.

The bottom row has no gamma correction, letting an absolute linear gradation be displayed; yet since most displays have a gamma correction curve applied by their video card, the linear gradation looks wrong.

Image

The absolute values are still the same in every pixel (if analyzing the original .png, not a screen grab from a browser), it's all in how your browser, monitor, etc., choose to warp the values as it presents it to you.

So, as with time... it's all... relative.
Image

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby AluisioASG » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:45 am UTC

jjjdavidson wrote:
AluisioASG wrote:
buffygirl wrote:NOTICE:
Now taking applications for milliner's apprentice. No experience required. Must be willing to be bossed around mercilessly. Apply within.

Hmm, I'm afraid to ask.


Where?

Hey, be good; she's married.

That's not the only problem. Take a look at what she's holding.1 And she looks angry.




1: Here's Johnny!
Last edited by AluisioASG on Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:49 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Gingercat wrote:Yeah, my players just decided to sit back and watch the Nukewisp frenzy itself to Annihilation-level fire energy, THEN they killed it.
Thus ended that campaign.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cmyk » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:46 am UTC

azule wrote:
cmyk wrote:
buffygirl wrote:@cmyk: my feelings is hurts.


I so sorry... was posting in... *gasp*... another thread. I promise to change back! Please forgive!


Off-topic post is off-topic. I mean, there's a topic for that. Why not post there, buffygirl?
It appears to be this comment causing a stink:
cmyk wrote:As a rule, I tend to avoid them. I find it disheartening for anyone to ever declare a "need" for an -ism, perceived pro or con, as definitions of such are ultimately plastic and abusable by the most egregious of us just looking for an umbrella to position over their uncritically thinking head and band together on shifting social or political sands.

Could it be the "umbrella" over their "head" comment....something similar to a HAT! Poor, buffygirl, you have more worth than just a hatmaker. :)


HA!

As I start to make myself more comfortable here, I didn't want the admittedly gorgeous hat, to cause any avatar confusion. Eventually, as much as it pains me, I'll have to revert to my former avatar-self.

Plus yeh, the hat makes me (well, my avatar) look totally feminine! Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Image

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby AluisioASG » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:50 am UTC

cmyk wrote:
azule wrote:
cmyk wrote:
buffygirl wrote:@cmyk: my feelings is hurts.


I so sorry... was posting in... *gasp*... another thread. I promise to change back! Please forgive!


Off-topic post is off-topic. I mean, there's a topic for that. Why not post there, buffygirl?
It appears to be this comment causing a stink:
cmyk wrote:As a rule, I tend to avoid them. I find it disheartening for anyone to ever declare a "need" for an -ism, perceived pro or con, as definitions of such are ultimately plastic and abusable by the most egregious of us just looking for an umbrella to position over their uncritically thinking head and band together on shifting social or political sands.

Could it be the "umbrella" over their "head" comment....something similar to a HAT! Poor, buffygirl, you have more worth than just a hatmaker. :)


HA!

As I start to make myself more comfortable here, I didn't want the admittedly gorgeous hat, to cause any avatar confusion. Eventually, as much as it pains me, I'll have to revert to my former avatar-self.

Plus yeh, the hat makes me (well, my avatar) look totally feminine! Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Now that you mentioned it, you remind me of Edna Mode.

EDIT: Hurry folks, only 10 more posts!
Gingercat wrote:Yeah, my players just decided to sit back and watch the Nukewisp frenzy itself to Annihilation-level fire energy, THEN they killed it.
Thus ended that campaign.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Kieryn » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:53 am UTC

Added -- list of all posters to the One True Thread
http://xkcd-time.kieryn.com/Default/Credits
Last edited by Kieryn on Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:56 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby AluisioASG » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:56 am UTC

Kieryn wrote:Added -- list of all posters to the One True Thread
http://xkcd-time.kieryn.com/Default/Credits

So, I'm the 23th poster...
23... 23... 32... 23... I like it.
Gingercat wrote:Yeah, my players just decided to sit back and watch the Nukewisp frenzy itself to Annihilation-level fire energy, THEN they killed it.
Thus ended that campaign.
Can't see addams on the right? Message me!Image

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Latent22 » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:58 am UTC

You know we should really stop posting in black all the time. If we are truly devout followers of time we should post in whatever the current newpix color which shell now be know as the newcolor! Right now it is almost impossible to tell the difference between this and black in text but it's far more important that you know you've done it right! To do this just place color tags around all your text as follows:

Code: Select all

[color=#1f1f1f]hello[/color]

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby jjjdavidson » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:59 am UTC

Kieryn wrote:Added -- list of all posters to the One True Thread
http://xkcd-time.kieryn.com/Default/Credits

That's fabulous. As of this post, more than a thousand different users have posted to this thread. How many threads even have a thousand posts?

One small request, though: Could you add the time the list is last updated, and the total number of posts at that time?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby jjjdavidson » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:03 am UTC

AINTGOTACLEVERONG....
Image
ETA: Faded to #222222. Also changed my post color per Latent22's suggestion.
Last edited by jjjdavidson on Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:07 am UTC, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cmyk » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:04 am UTC

KarMann wrote:
cmyk wrote:SALAD TONGS!

Spoiler:
Image


Grayscale: 88%
Hex: 2d2d2d
RGB: r45, g45, b45

ETA: Whoops! Linked to old hash!

Eh? You too, now? I'm showing 31, #1f1f1f, for this one. And that seems to fit with the gr[ae]yscale 88% figure, if I assume that that percentage increases with darkness, and so it's equivalent to 12%. 0.12 × 255 = 30.6


Checking the absolute values in Photoshop CS6. I set the three eyedropper samplers to display #1 — Grayscale Value (0-100%), #2 — the standard Hex Web values, and #3 — the RGB values (0-255) respectively.

:shrug:

Image
Image

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby vvn » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:06 am UTC

Kieryn wrote:Added -- list of all posters to the One True Thread
http://xkcd-time.kieryn.com/Default/Credits

I am surprised at the number of posters with only 1.

Add: I get #222222 in Gimp after a "save image as". Just FYI.
Last edited by vvn on Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:12 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SBN » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:07 am UTC

jjjdavidson wrote:AINTGOTACLEVERONG....

Spoiler:
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BytEfLUSh » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:08 am UTC

This is by far the most viewed topic within "Individual XKCD Comic Threads". Also, the one with most replies.

So... It has come to this.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby AluisioASG » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:10 am UTC

Are we there yet?
EDIT: No :cry:
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby htom » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:12 am UTC

jjjdavidson wrote:
azule wrote:
patzer wrote:Now I have a problem
Do I put the original PNGs on the wiki, or do I convert the images to JPGs so they are displayed correctly?

Originals, with a note. The transition is perceivable and that's the important thing.

Angelastic wrote:As PFAN/P (does P=NP here?), I decree that the original images are canon, converting to jpg is heresy, and if people use browsers that display the colours incorrectly, that's their problem.

What azule and Angelastic said! Please, preserve the original PNG files. jpeg is a lossy and corrupt format; it loses data and introduces artifacts.


Preserve the original PNG files. They're (in this context) the film negatives. A JPEG is a print. You can later make a negative from a print, but it will not be the same as the original negative. The different browsers show PNG differently (and they show JPEG differently, too.) Welcome to the world of color spaces and color corrections. From the original PNG, we can make many different JPEGs to compensate for the different OS + browser + GPU + display + calibration + user settings ... but we can't do that accurately from a JPEG even if we convert back to PNG, we'll always be further and further from the original. Please, preserve the original PNGs.

Edit -- Poped! I direct that the Original PNGs are to be preserved.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby patzer » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:15 am UTC

BytEfLUSh wrote:This is by far the most viewed topic within "Individual XKCD Comic Threads". Also, the one with most replies.

Indeed, it has more replies than the next-28-biggest topics combined :shock:
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby patzer » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:17 am UTC

htom wrote:
jjjdavidson wrote:
azule wrote:
patzer wrote:Now I have a problem
Do I put the original PNGs on the wiki, or do I convert the images to JPGs so they are displayed correctly?

Originals, with a note. The transition is perceivable and that's the important thing.

Angelastic wrote:As PFAN/P (does P=NP here?), I decree that the original images are canon, converting to jpg is heresy, and if people use browsers that display the colours incorrectly, that's their problem.

What azule and Angelastic said! Please, preserve the original PNG files. jpeg is a lossy and corrupt format; it loses data and introduces artifacts.


Preserve the original PNG files. They're (in this context) the film negatives. A JPEG is a print. You can later make a negative from a print, but it will not be the same as the original negative. The different browsers show PNG differently (and they show JPEG differently, too.) Welcome to the world of color spaces and color corrections. From the original PNG, we can make many different JPEGs to compensate for the different OS + browser + GPU + display + calibration + user settings ... but we can't do that accurately from a JPEG even if we convert back to PNG, we'll always be further and further from the original. Please, preserve the original PNGs.

Edit -- Poped! I direct that the Original PNGs are to be preserved.

I shall heed the advice of two popes, and use the original PNGs.
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family Anatidae on our hands. –Douglas Adams

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Goggalor » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:18 am UTC

Kieryn wrote:Added -- list of all posters to the One True Thread
http://xkcd-time.kieryn.com/Default/Credits

I need three1 more posts to break into the top 100 (and tie with BlitzGirl who is currently listed at 99)
1Well I guess two now.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SBN » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:21 am UTC

Goggalor wrote:
Kieryn wrote:Added -- list of all posters to the One True Thread
http://xkcd-time.kieryn.com/Default/Credits

I need three1 more posts to break into the top 100 (and tie with BlitzGirl who is currently listed at 99)
1Well I guess two now.

Homework for the graphers out there, we need a graph with the posters represented as a line from their first post, to their latest, with the thickness representing the number of posts.
astrotter wrote:It is not particularly clear to me at this time that we are not overanalyzing this...

Randalspeed thunk, iskinner, and other blitzers! Notes from the before-was improve the after-when.
Some Ways to Time
NetWeasel wrote:I want to put that in my sig... BUT I CAN'T!!!!


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