Homeworld

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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Homeworld

Postby Mother Superior » Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:47 am UTC

As of late I started a comic about Homeworld, using the game for space scenes and gmod for interiors. Needless to say eventually this led me to play through the game, along with Cataclysm and am now going through the sequel. The first game and moreso Cataclysm never ceases to amaze me with their incredible atmosphere and Cataclysm probably tells the most involving story of any strategy game I've ever played. I still shudder at the cutscene where the beast first breaks free. And the first game feels more epic than anything else. The sequel is mostly shit except for the graphics.
So, is there anyone else around here who loves this series of games as much as me?
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Re: Homeworld

Postby evilbeanfiend » Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:07 am UTC

yes, great use of barber's adagio for strings, even if its been done before in several films
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Re: Homeworld

Postby Mother Superior » Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:47 pm UTC

Christ, I just played through part of Homeworld 2 and I realized how shitty it is. :(
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Re: Homeworld

Postby malarkie » Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:33 am UTC

Homeworld is the best RTS ever.
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Re: Homeworld

Postby Sunsnail » Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:19 am UTC

malarkie wrote:Homeworld is the best RTS ever.


Mostly definitely. I still love it to death.

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Re: Homeworld

Postby Stief » Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:36 pm UTC

Mother Superior wrote:Christ, I just played through part of Homeworld 2 and I realized how shitty it is. :(


Tbh, I only bought it for the Warlords mod...^_^ (loves destroying rebel scum...)

I might look for the original, as it seems much better :P
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Re: Homeworld

Postby malarkie » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:56 am UTC

I think that Homeworld 2 is like Devil May Cry 2. If it were not a sequal to such an excellent game, it would have just been average. But we think they are bad because we know the developers can do better.
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Re: Homeworld

Postby TheKhakinator » Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:08 am UTC

Can anyone out there pick what is wrong with Homeworld 2? I didn't get into it like I did the first one at all. Also I traded my copy of Homeworld 1 ages ago :( I regret this.

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Re: Homeworld

Postby Mother Superior » Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:38 pm UTC

TheKhakinator wrote:Can anyone out there pick what is wrong with Homeworld 2? I didn't get into it like I did the first one at all. Also I traded my copy of Homeworld 1 ages ago :( I regret this.

Spoilers below:
They messed up the story by introducing stuff that is not supported by the first game (For example the original Mothership did not use "The" Hyperspace core, it clearly states in the mission briefing in the manual that the core found on the Khar-Toba was replicated and enhanced to 20 times its size. I also want to know why the Hiigarans built another mothership, they clearly have access to better classes of ships, why waste all that man-power on such a crappy, weak vessel?) as well as changing the atmosphere of the whole series. There's a bunch of stuff that doesn't make sense logically. The game takes place a hundred years after the first one and yet resource collecting is less efficient, you have to re-discover all the technologies you knew in the first game and the Hiigarans have switched from cool, efficient ion beams to also cool but less efficient torpedoes and missiles. Then there's some annoying gameplay stuff like the game doesn't allow you to wait and collect resources and build up your fleet at the end of each mission but rather you automatically jump away to the next mission with a tiny, pathetic little fleet but HUGE amounts of resources because you automatically collect all the resources from the map when you end the mission. Sadly most missions begin with you being under attack or coming under attack almost right away so very little time to build fleets out of these resources. The ship design while always gorgeously rendered is pretty bland and uninteresting with exceptions of course. But apart from all this my best reason for dis-liking homeworld 2 is... it just lacks the soul of the first two games. As much as it tries to it fails to convey that desperate sense of loneliness and struggle to survive. It also ranges wildly from ridiculously hard to laughingly easy from level to level.



...In my opinion.
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Re: Homeworld

Postby apfergus » Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:56 pm UTC

I enjoyed the first game immensely. I actually only picked it up because at the time it was released I had an obsession with the band Yes, which had a somewhat tenuous connection to the game (they had just released The Ladder, the first track on which was called Homeworld, and I think a sample from this song was in the game somewhere).

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Re: Homeworld

Postby Prole » Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:06 pm UTC

I found multiplayer slightly more tight and intense in the second.

I didn't play a huge amount of the first multi though
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Re: Homeworld

Postby Mother Superior » Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:10 pm UTC

apfergus wrote:I enjoyed the first game immensely. I actually only picked it up because at the time it was released I had an obsession with the band Yes, which had a somewhat tenuous connection to the game (they had just released The Ladder, the first track on which was called Homeworld, and I think a sample from this song was in the game somewhere).

It was written for the game and was played in its entirety during the credits.
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Re: Homeworld

Postby TheKhakinator » Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:03 am UTC

I downloaded the soundtrack for Homeworld 1 from Galbadia Hotel, though I didn't notice any Yes stuff, it was all Paul Ruskay. Though I do know Yes did music for the game.

I liked the multiplayer in the original better - the new one was just WAY too confusing at first and it wasn't fun enough to make me want to learn it, unlike Dawn of War.

Also, watching the introduction to Homeworld (original). So... moving. With the woman built into the ship... and the voice... and all that stuff... totally mind blowing.

Also Homeworld had those trails on fighter ships which, while often jaggy, were cool. Homeworld 2 wrecked these and made them too small and lame.

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Re: Homeworld

Postby Mother Superior » Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:01 am UTC

TheKhakinator wrote:Also, watching the introduction to Homeworld (original). So... moving. With the woman built into the ship... and the voice... and all that stuff... totally mind blowing.


The destruction of Kharak is still so awesome to watch.
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Re: Homeworld

Postby VannA » Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:39 am UTC

I endorse the original, and share the dissappointment in the sequel.

The first had so much atmosphere and soul.
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Re: Homeworld

Postby CrackTheSky » Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:24 am UTC

In my opinion, one of the greatest things about Homeworld and Homeworld: Cataclysm is their incredible, deep, detailed backstories. If you bother to read the somewhat lengthy first portions of each game's manual (and also the ship descriptions in the case of Cataclysm's manual), the story for each game just becomes so much more real and plausible. Honestly, both games are very close to the top of my all-time favorite storylines in video games, and a good portion of the reason for this is due to the thought the designers put into each game's backstory.

Also, as a side note, it sucks that Cataclysm got almost no publicity at all. I find it rather surprising, is there a reason for this? I've come across so many people who have played Homeworld and/or Homeworld 2, but never even KNEW about Cataclysm, which is arguably the best of the three.

And, while I own Homeworld 2 (and have for something like three years, I think), I haven't ever installed it on my computer just because I know the story will be a HUGE disappointment, and since that's the main reason I play the first two, I just don't feel compelled to play HW2 at all :/

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Re: Homeworld

Postby Mother Superior » Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:15 am UTC

CrackTheSky wrote:Also, as a side note, it sucks that Cataclysm got almost no publicity at all. I find it rather surprising, is there a reason for this? I've come across so many people who have played Homeworld and/or Homeworld 2, but never even KNEW about Cataclysm, which is arguably the best of the three.

I agree completely. Easily the best cutscenes of the three games and some of the best voice-acting in any game as well. Really quite truly an awesome game by its own.
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Re: Homeworld

Postby Gunfingers » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:18 pm UTC

If i remember right, Cataclysm was made by a different company.

I don't remember much about Cataclysm, except that i wasn't really impressed with it. The almost epic feel of the original Homeworld? Yeah, i remember that. But all i remember about cataclysm was thinking "crappy knock-off sequel." I don't remember Homeworld 2, either, but i remember that i liked it better than Cataclysm.

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Re: Homeworld

Postby Mother Superior » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:29 pm UTC

Gunfingers wrote:I don't remember much about Cataclysm, except that i wasn't really impressed with it. The almost epic feel of the original Homeworld? Yeah, i remember that. But all i remember about cataclysm was thinking "crappy knock-off sequel."


Then you must remember wrong. Cataclysm was nothing even close to being an emtpy sequel, it was well-crafted, extremely atmosperic and borrowed next to nothing from the original apart from the setting, the back story and the game engine.
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Re: Homeworld

Postby Memo » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:44 pm UTC

I've started playing Homeworld. Any non-spoilerish tips?

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Re: Homeworld

Postby Mother Superior » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:46 pm UTC

Memo wrote:I've started playing Homeworld. Any non-spoilerish tips?

Nothing bad will ever happen. All will go exactly as planned from the start.
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Re: Homeworld

Postby Memo » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:50 pm UTC

Mother Superior wrote:
Memo wrote:I've started playing Homeworld. Any non-spoilerish tips?

Nothing bad will ever happen. All will go exactly as planned from the start.

I'm not sure why but that sounds ominous. :P

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Re: Homeworld

Postby Mother Superior » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:56 pm UTC

Memo wrote:
Mother Superior wrote:
Memo wrote:I've started playing Homeworld. Any non-spoilerish tips?

Nothing bad will ever happen. All will go exactly as planned from the start.

I'm not sure why but that sounds ominous. :P

How far along are you?
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Re: Homeworld

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:42 pm UTC

Mother Superior wrote:
Memo wrote:I've started playing Homeworld. Any non-spoilerish tips?

Nothing bad will ever happen. All will go exactly as planned from the start.


I lol'd.


Homeworld - most depressing first 20 minutes of a game EVER.
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Re: Homeworld

Postby Memo » Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:59 pm UTC

Mother Superior wrote:
Memo wrote:
Mother Superior wrote:
Memo wrote:I've started playing Homeworld. Any non-spoilerish tips?

Nothing bad will ever happen. All will go exactly as planned from the start.

I'm not sure why but that sounds ominous. :P

How far along are you?

Level 2. I just started.

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Re: Homeworld

Postby Lucien » Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:22 pm UTC

Memo wrote:I've started playing Homeworld. Any non-spoilerish tips?


Salvage ships rock.

Edit: Salvage... Covettes? :/

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Re: Homeworld

Postby malarkie » Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:53 am UTC

Bombers will save your life, freaking support frigates always die, and a good fighter cover will win the day.
I got to start playing homeworld again.
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Re: Homeworld

Postby Will » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:48 pm UTC

Gearbox bought the rights to Homeworld.
Looks like they're planning on making the games available on GoG/Steam. Also murmurs of making a sequel. I am excite.

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Re: Homeworld

Postby Enokh » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:51 pm UTC

And now I have to go dig up my old copies and play both, or at minimum the second one.

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Re: Homeworld

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:09 am UTC

Enokh wrote:And now I have to go dig up my old copies and play both, or at minimum the second one.


There is no second one. Unless you mean Cataclysm, which I guess sort of counts. Otherwise, they never made a second one. It most certainly does not exist.

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Re: Homeworld

Postby Koa » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:28 am UTC

Uh... Why? If it's plot, I think Cataclysm would be the weakest entry, yet you acknowledge it exists. If it's gameplay, the original game had several annoying issues that the sequels greatly improved upon. If it's about obtaining a new hipster merit badge, well, that makes a little sense at least.

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Re: Homeworld

Postby Nylonathatep » Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:46 pm UTC

Played Homeworld, Cataclysm, and HW 2...

I feel the original Homeworld is the best one: most intriguing plot... it’s a civilization-threatening plot that draws the players in and make him feel he’s a part of the game. The graphics is actually pretty ahead of its time…. And the biggest draw/things that bugged me in the later series is that there’s a cap on how much ship you can have. For me, as well as the few people I know that have played the game, a big part of the fun in Homeworld is capping ships. (One guy I know had captured all the ships in Homeworld.) The sound track for homeworld is also very under-rated, considering I still listened to Adagio for Strings from time to time.

HW2 had a decent universe threatening plot… but it just isn’t well executed. (They need More of Vaygr doing bad stuff … the myth of the Progenitor race also feels a bit forced.) The level design and tech tree really isn’t that great either…I remember back in Homeworld every new tech researched is like a god-send and the Hiigaran are always tech starved and on their brink of destruction; in HW2 you are outgunned and outnumbered no matter what you do anyways. Also Vavgr tech is too similar to Hiigarian tech; our ships looks the same and our space lasers looks the same. In comparison Taiidan got missile destroyers that’s full of dekka goodness and aesthetically they ships looks and feels different.

Cataclysm have interesting mechanics (acolytes that have one stock EMP missiles that is useful in one mission), the got force shield generators, cloaking fighters… not all of they are great but the attempt to at least innovate is applaudable. The Beast is just to generic of a big bad but it does have its moments (better voice acting, and more space horrors scenes would help) The end stage is bad because you’ll just scrap your ships and make super acolytes while the beast just eats your capital ships…. The archangel is utterly useless.

I’ll only considering buying Homeworld again if they update the ship sprites, or better yet.. let players design their on ships. That’ll definitely expand gameplaye and add a lot of replay value to the game. If there’s going to be another Homeworld… it’ll most likely be a prequel on how the Taiidan trashed the Hiigarian.

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Re: Homeworld

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:46 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I usually captured a hundred ion frigates in that sphere of ion frigates map. Everything else was a cakewalk afterwards. FEAR MY FLEET OF IONIC DEATH. The trick is to max out on support frigates before then, though it may mean you have to do so before capturing all those multibeam frigates of inevitable destruction.

I also managed to put down old yeller without losing a single capital ship. Was not easy, but doable. Honestly, old yeller was the best horror monster. It just shows up and kidnaps your precious destroyer without so much as a word. Too bad you couldn't capture it, it would've been awesome as a pet.

Oh I did discover that you can't save more than 5 packages of your cryogenically frozen people in mission 3. The game won't continue if you do.

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Re: Homeworld

Postby Drumheller769 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:47 am UTC

I must agree, the original is by far the best of the 3. I too captured so many of the ships in that game. I also feel that at least on the first play through, starting each mission was always like a "Oh please dont be something insane....let me just have to like farm minerals. But NOPE! Have a giant ship trying to ram into your everything!"
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Re: Homeworld

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:07 pm UTC

Spoiler:
The saddest part is when you realize you are killing your cousins in the Garden, but there is nothing you can do to stop the killing.

Also, if you attack the Bentusi their horseshoe can annihilate the bananaship in seconds. Too bad they didn't do that to their attackers later on in that later mission.

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Re: Homeworld

Postby Thadlerian » Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:16 pm UTC

I would look forward to a new Homeworld game, having deeply enjoyed the first installment, as well as the music of the second. But I think the most awesome thing of all would be if they did a complete twist of the setting: A new game in which the Hiigarans/people from Kharak are the real bad guys, and you have to mount a rebellion to undo all what was done in the previous games.

Think about it. If you review the story of Homeworld 1, there are several reasons such a plot twist could be convincing:
(as we might have people in this thread not having played the game, we should keep it in spoilers)
Spoiler:
Sure, the Kharakans meet a lot of aggression along the way, powers bent on their destruction. But they're not entirely innocent themselves, and seem to have a warmongering streak.

- In one of the early missions, you see the attack on the Scaffold. One of the enemy ships is destroyed, because the Scaffold has guns/missiles. Why does the Scaffold have weapons? They're powerful enough to take out an armoured warship with a couple of shots, far more efficiently than most of your later warships. These people can hardly be aware of even the existence of alien life forms - the only thing they have is a star map - and yet they stuff everything they build with weapons.

- They torture the crew of an enemy ship to death.

- Look at their position when the main storyline starts: Their homeworld (the real one, where they lived their lives, not their mythical one) has been destroyed, and they've barely managed to save a couple hundred thousands of cryogenically preserved people. What do they do? They flee to some safe, distant place where they can rebuild their people, safe from their cruel attackers, get over the horrifying loss of Kharak, review their assets, and then, maybe, slowly build up their resources to get revenge, at some point in the far future.

NOT.

No, the actually grab the cryo-trays and dive head first into a 100 % certain suicide mission, with nearly non-existent weaponry, risking all, simply to get revenge on the most powerful space empire around. What kind of people would even consider this?

- They destroy an entire research station, killing numerous people who have no part in the conflict, simply because it is in their way.

All of these points could probably be explained with more detailed incursions into the setting and internal logic of the story, but to me it would be enough to justify a complete plot turnaround in a new game.

Suffice to say, I don't think the story of Homeworld is very good. It is exceptionally well told, with astounding use of music and monologue, but not good - as in, not making sense. I don't think the writers intended for the Kharakans to be crazy violent barbarians, they just thoughtlessly implemented all the stuff i put in the previous spoiler tag simply because it was convenient for the story setup they wanted to use.

Some thoughts:
Spoiler:
- The stuff in the previous section, with revenge rather than security.
- In the final mission Karen is disabled with some sort of psychic attack, with no hints or implications that such things even exist in this universe.
- Obviously, the only reason the game works is because the evil guys consistently refuse to send sufficiently large forces as to beat the Kharakans They had plenty of available forces, surely these could be diverted for those few hours it would take to crush the banana-ship-people? It is entirely possible for such a lack of action to make sense, but I want to know why the bad guys didn't do the obvious.
- When the crazy warmongering berserkers finally arrive at Hiigara, there's a huge celebration. Who are these people doing the celebrating? Surely not the occupants of the cryo-trays. These people have just awoken, and the first things they learn is that the entire rest of their people (friends, relatives) have been exterminated, and that their zealous leaders in their name have carwed a swath of unimaginable (for native Kharakans) destruction and horror through the galaxy. I would NOT be in the mood for celebration.
- The awesome narrator, his voice so haunting at the return to Kharak scene, muses on the conflict in the end cinematic, but there is no reflection over the nature of the violence, no regret or self-criticism.
- We can see that there are people already living on Hiigara when the Kharakans arrive, and that buildings are being burned. What happens to all those people? Are they subject to occupation? Forced emigration? Genocide? Another possible support for the good guy/bad guy turnaround for a new game.

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Re: Homeworld

Postby Kulantan » Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:28 am UTC

With all this talk of maybe a sequel it is probably worth mentioning Hardware: Shipbreakers. This looks to be a land based thing that is kinda Homeworldy made by lots of people responsible for the original Homeworld. The art style is exceedingly Homeworld-like. I'm tentatively exited about this but am waiting on the game play reveal to go into all out squee mode.
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Re: Homeworld

Postby CorruptUser » Mon May 06, 2013 4:58 am UTC

Thadlerian wrote:(above)


Spoiler:
In Homeworld II, it is revealed that the Hiiagarans were the evil empire of the galaxy, which caused the rest of the galaxy to unite against them to put them down. Due to the sheer horrors of the atrocities committed by the Hiiagarans, no mercy was shown to them until the very end, when they were allowed to amass a few freighters and leave. The memory of that war was so fierce that the Taiidan made damn sure that even 4000 years later the Hiiagarans would never have the ability to wage war again.

As to why the Hiiagarans didn't try to find a new planet instead and rebuild their strength, they had no real way of knowing if that was even possible. While they don't know their history from the very beginning, the Bentusi imply that the Hiiagarans spent quite some time looking for a possibly habitable planet (Kharak was just barely habitable and only with advanced technology); they might've died when searching for a new one, and they had no way of knowing if the Taiidan would find them again. Granted that it's still probably better to run than head to Hiiagara; they couldn't reasonably expect to keep that planet once they capture it, even if they do manage to capture it.

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Re: Homeworld

Postby Nylonathatep » Tue May 07, 2013 4:42 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:
Spoiler:
The saddest part is when you realize you are killing your cousins in the Garden, but there is nothing you can do to stop the killing.

Also, if you attack the Bentusi their horseshoe can annihilate the bananaship in seconds. Too bad they didn't do that to their attackers later on in that later mission.


Spoiler:
In the Gardens of Kadesh: I'll rather have the Kadeshi phallic spaceship instead of the bananaship... The horseshoe ship is over-rated... if memory serves me correctly you get to kill an infected one in Cataclysm. Still.. anything is better then the Taiidani Orca.

Spambot5546
Posts: 1466
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:34 pm UTC

Re: Homeworld

Postby Spambot5546 » Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:13 am UTC

So this is a really minor thing. You guys probably don't care. It's stupid, really. Barely worth a mention. It's just...

HOMEWORLD IS GETTING AN HD RE-RELEASE. Homeworld 2, as well. No Cataclysm, alas.

I'm sticking by my "no preorders" new years resolution, but I'm still pretty excited. I don't think I've ever played a game whose story had a more epic scope.
"It is bitter – bitter", he answered,
"But I like it
Because it is bitter,
And because it is my heart."


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