1190: "Time"

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby higgs-boson » Tue May 14, 2013 8:56 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:Looks a lot like an acacia (the African tree Hal mentioned).

For the moment I tend to disagree. My bets are on something from the family Cupressaceae.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby pelrigg » Tue May 14, 2013 8:56 pm UTC

KarMann wrote:
htom wrote:
StratPlayer wrote:
Opiboble wrote:I feel "There's a snake in my boot" moment coming...

Huh. Never heard that variation. Usually the line is said so that it's "...in my trousers, and it's happy to see you."

Out in the BigRoom, snakes love to crawl into boots at night. I'm not sure why, they probably look like holes that smell like food. Then you find them in the morning when you shake out your boots. They're usually rather feisty for a couple of minutes, either from the rude awakening, or their fall to the ground, or the dropped boot falling on them. I've seen them attack such boots, and heard of people being snake-bit by an envenomed fang stuck through a boot and left behind in such an encounter.

Actually, my first time to the Sonoran Desert, my problem was ferrets in my boots.

I've heard the boot story too, and always thought it rather dubious, so I finally went and checked.

A variant I've heard is that people who have been hit by a rattler in their boot, even though it doesn't penetrate, will cut the spot out (where the strike happened) and then throw the boots out. That keeps the owner of the boot from having to go though any pain and suffering later (if they end up with a blister or cut) and protects somebody else from the same thing when they find this "perfectly good pair of boots" in the garbage. (Good pair of work boots for ranching == $$$)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby astrocub » Tue May 14, 2013 8:56 pm UTC

HES wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:And if you do math, you don't say you're doing maths... oh wait. :lol:


yeah, but, er, mathematics has an "s" on the end. You don't do mathematic. Anyway, a language doesn't have to be consistent to be correct :wink:


I think you mean a language can't be consistent if it's complete ;)

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Opiboble » Tue May 14, 2013 8:57 pm UTC

jetpac wrote:
HES wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:And if you do math, you don't say you're doing maths... oh wait. :lol:


yeah, but, er, mathematics has an "s" on the end. You don't do mathematic. Anyway, a language doesn't have to be consistent to be correct :wink:

Good thing, too, since English is about as far from consistent as a language could be.

I don't know about that, I am sure given enough time we could make our own language that would be far less consistent then any sane person would even attempt to create.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Tue May 14, 2013 8:57 pm UTC

(Re: maths - was being a silly American. :wink: )

Caswallon wrote:
Spoiler:
Kieryn wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:But will the snake be in their boots?

Looks a lot like an acacia (the African tree Hal mentioned).

ETA: Hmm, guess acacias are not specifically African; here's a distribution map Google found for me:
Image


Well, that totally narrows their location down. :)

Wait, can we cross reference this with know locations for Peregrine Falcons?

Then by locations with a Sea (or large brackish lake), beaches, and rivers?


I'm still not convinced the sparrow-raptor is a Peregrine Falcon, but here's a distribution map for you:
Spoiler:
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby jetpac » Tue May 14, 2013 8:58 pm UTC

Opiboble wrote:
jetpac wrote:
HES wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:And if you do math, you don't say you're doing maths... oh wait. :lol:


yeah, but, er, mathematics has an "s" on the end. You don't do mathematic. Anyway, a language doesn't have to be consistent to be correct :wink:

Good thing, too, since English is about as far from consistent as a language could be.

I don't know about that, I am sure given enough time we could make our own language that would be far less consistent then any sane person would even attempt to create.

I should've known better than to make superlative statements on the internet...

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Tue May 14, 2013 8:59 pm UTC

You mean the internets?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Opiboble » Tue May 14, 2013 9:02 pm UTC

jetpac wrote:
Opiboble wrote:
jetpac wrote:
HES wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:And if you do math, you don't say you're doing maths... oh wait. :lol:


yeah, but, er, mathematics has an "s" on the end. You don't do mathematic. Anyway, a language doesn't have to be consistent to be correct :wink:

Good thing, too, since English is about as far from consistent as a language could be.

I don't know about that, I am sure given enough time we could make our own language that would be far less consistent then any sane person would even attempt to create.

I should've known better than to make superlative statements on the internet...

BlitzGirl wrote:You mean the internets?


I think so.

On the note of creating a language I think we should start developing an official language/cypher to post in, so only true disciples of the OTC can read the OTT...
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby airdrik » Tue May 14, 2013 9:02 pm UTC

HES wrote:
Spoiler:
Opiboble wrote:
Valarya wrote:
Opiboble wrote:Very great ending to the trilogy, so very sad, but so very happy. Makes me sad that all my old toys are boxed up in my closet, cant wait to have kids so they can come out and play again.

edit: I must have made everyone cry or something since no one is posting anymore...


You know. All that outside stuff getting in the way. But now that I've read your comment, I have to add that I think it's wonderful you've saved the toys! As a child of the 80s, and also a mom, it's so cool to see my daughter play with my old stuff. ;)


Yup, I have tons and tons of legos, the original die-cast Thomas the Tank Engine, along with the wooden collections, toy cars up the wazoo, 3 telescopes, .5miles of HO scale model train tracks, 5 train engines to go with it, and the list goes on and on, and on...

An excuse to play with Lego is the only reason I want kids.
I never got the American use of "legos"... to me, they are pieces/parts/sets of lego. If you have a sand pit, you don't say it's full of sands... [/flamebait]

Being American, I don't use "legos" for just that reason. Lego is both the singular and the plural, most of the time it should be used as pieces of lego vs. piece of lego (or lego brick, though I never caught on to using that one since very few of the pieces that I ever played with were shaped like bricks).

That said, I should admit that I have used "legos" when referring to the duplo blocks that my 3-year-old son needs to pick up before going to bed, just because it's easier to say and understand.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Kieryn » Tue May 14, 2013 9:03 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:(Re: maths - was being a silly American. :wink: )

Caswallon wrote:
Spoiler:
Kieryn wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:But will the snake be in their boots?

Looks a lot like an acacia (the African tree Hal mentioned).

ETA: Hmm, guess acacias are not specifically African; here's a distribution map Google found for me:
Image


Well, that totally narrows their location down. :)

Wait, can we cross reference this with know locations for Peregrine Falcons?

Then by locations with a Sea (or large brackish lake), beaches, and rivers?


I'm still not convinced the sparrow-raptor is a Peregrine Falcon, but here's a distribution map for you:
Spoiler:
Image


Here's a combination of the Peregrine distribution with the acacia one. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PeregrineRangeMap.png
Image
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby pelrigg » Tue May 14, 2013 9:04 pm UTC

loverly as a tree ong
Image

ETA
Maybe they will take a break
They should know what a tree is. They have lumber.
Last edited by pelrigg on Tue May 14, 2013 9:06 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Pikrass » Tue May 14, 2013 9:04 pm UTC

jowo wrote:
Spoiler:
mscha wrote:While nothing much is happening in the OTC, why don't we compare first OTT posts?


My first contribution, such as it was, occurred on page 58 of the OTT, Day 3, NP 128 I think (nothing was changing much), during the Slow Pixel age, just after the glimpse into the future:

jowo wrote:Another long-time forum reader de-lurks....

So glad I'm retired. Wait for it.


I'd seen the first NP, just after midnight on Day 1; checked the forum a few hours later to see if anyone understood such an obscure comic and discovered on my way in that the image had changed.


I don't talk much around here, but I'm sure enjoying everyone else. Thanks. Still glad I'm retired; this thread's a time sink.

No, Outside life is a Time sink. Time is the only thing that's worth Time!


AluisioASG wrote:So, as everyone is looking back at Time, so do I.
My first post was at NewPage 14 (in fact, I'm that page's Pope), what makes me one of the oldest users still active, after azule, BytEfLUSh and KarMann. So,

All hail the Elders!

Well, my first post was on NP 10, but I guess I'm not active enough. :oops:


Valarya wrote:
ergman wrote:I think I've edited more than I've posted, and read my own posts more than anyone else...


This is exactly how I feel. :mrgreen:

Same thing, and I should add I look for my nickname on other people's messages even several newpages after my last one. I hope this doesn't make me egocentric.


lmjb1964 wrote:I seem to always be 6-7 pages behind. (Love/hating the sandpaper puns, btw.) I'm home sick today, so maybe I can get caught up. I'm aalso a little out of it. Sorry if any of this doesn't make sense.

About 72 newpix ago, I was many newpages behind and decided to fight off coma and do a miniblitz to salsa. (The condiment, not the dance.) Finally reached the last page and tried to coma, but couldn't because I was pondering the problem of time in Time. (Or Time's time, or Time time) I'm not proposing that any of this is original; just my thoughts on it. While we can't say exactly how long they've been walking (since time moves differently between frames), I think they must have gone more than a "day" in their world. Maybe was aren't shown any night frames since they would just be black. (Unless they're at a latitude where the sun doesn't set.) But they never talk about being tired, or needing to find a place to sleep. Of course, they don't talk much at all. <snip>

Well, there's the theory that several days have passed during the Fading (or just when the Fading ended), but the construction of the sandcastle and the journey each took place in a single day.
Maybe we'll see them install tents after a while.


burpen wrote:It's worth noting the current frame number (1337). I wonder if Randall deliberately chose this frame to introduce a relatively significant object, or whether it was mere coincidence.

It worried me that 12 newmessages were posted without any reference to this fact. Thank you for that!


Talking about birthdays, anyone wants to test the birthday paradox? Mine was on the 7th of May.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby airdrik » Tue May 14, 2013 9:05 pm UTC

pelrigg wrote:loverly as a tree ong
Spoiler:
Image

Looks like they've paused to check out the tree. Maybe they will stay a bit? realizing that this has been suggested; I'm just adding my opinion that they should.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Someguy945 » Tue May 14, 2013 9:07 pm UTC

airdrik wrote:Looks like they've paused to check out the tree.


We were surprised by the tree, and so at first glance it makes sense for them to stop and admire it.

But they would have seen that tree from quite a distance away. I don't think I'd stand there and stare at it like I hadn't already been looking at it for awhile.

That goes double if we later learn that there are more trees ahead, which is what I'm expecting to see soon.
Last edited by Someguy945 on Tue May 14, 2013 9:09 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Tue May 14, 2013 9:09 pm UTC

Kieryn wrote:<snip>
Here's a combination of the Peregrine distribution with the acacia one. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PeregrineRangeMap.png
Spoiler:
Image

Wow, quick work! Now where are those DeadSea-ists?

Cuegan might be looking closely at the tree because they haven't seen anything like it before.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Magdiragdag » Tue May 14, 2013 9:09 pm UTC

pelrigg wrote:loverly as a tree ong
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/time/4c47e2d452af52a339668a647b6ca013ee7bd6e0a8a9974b633e3ee88823d48b.png

ETA
Maybe they will take a break
They should know what a tree is. They have lumber.

Mmm, not so sure. If you have milk, you don't necessarily know what a cow is.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Exodies » Tue May 14, 2013 9:09 pm UTC

Cueball.jpg
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby higgs-boson » Tue May 14, 2013 9:10 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:Wow, quick work! Now where are those DeadSea-ists?

Here.

May I have a distribution map of the Cupressus sempervirens, please?
Oh, and where do I get these nice maps, anyway? :)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby HAL9000 » Tue May 14, 2013 9:11 pm UTC

Exodies wrote:
Cueball.jpg
Cueball on his day job - keeping the pedestrians safe in Paris

That is honestly the best walk signal I've ever seen. I don't know why, but it just appeals to me.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby k.bookbinder » Tue May 14, 2013 9:13 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:<snip>

Image
(I actually like trees. Please don't chainsaw them. Unless they're being obnoxiously political.)


I like trees, too. I have received word that our neighbor is cutting down all his trees. We live on a beautiful wooded lot and I do not understand why someone would decide to cut them all down? His home is fully constructed so he does not need the wood. It makes me sad...for the birds and squirrels especially. Perhaps I shall put up more feeders, to help them cope.

Kieryn wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:<snip>

I'm still not convinced the sparrow-raptor is a Peregrine Falcon, but here's a distribution map for you:
Spoiler:
Image


Here's a combination of the Peregrine distribution with the acacia one. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PeregrineRangeMap.png
Image


Some posts ago I gave an explanation as to what the bird might be. I believe it was missed by most. In any case, I'd like to reiterate my hypothesis that the bird in question was an Osprey. Or some unknown-to-the-outside Time raptor.

Edit: fix quote block
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Pikrass » Tue May 14, 2013 9:19 pm UTC

Exodies wrote:Cueball on his day job - keeping the pedestrians safe in Paris

It's not Cueball, his stomach is made with two sticks! Impostor!
Also, he's moving too fast.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby higgs-boson » Tue May 14, 2013 9:24 pm UTC

k.bookbinder wrote:I like trees, too. I have received word that our neighbor is cutting down all his trees. We live on a beautiful wooded lot and I do not understand why someone would decide to cut them all down? His home is fully constructed so he does not need the wood. It makes me sad...for the birds and squirrels especially. Perhaps I shall put up more feeders, to help them cope.


Some rather irresponsible people planted the trees too close to the houses - or built the houses too close to the trees. As a general rule: If a tree in distress (stormy weather, age, whatever) endangers humans, the tree loses.

I'm not happy about it, too. I've seen it happen too often.



Spoiler:
cupressus-thingie.jpg
Cupressus thingie, Pityusic Islands, Spain
cupressus-thingie.jpg (21.21 KiB) Viewed 13660 times
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby azule » Tue May 14, 2013 9:25 pm UTC

Wrong Prediction Time: They will talk to the tree. To nurture it.

mathrec wrote:
azule wrote:P.S. Woot, Valarya's my b.d. buddy!

Wow that's incredible! That's got to be a huge coincidence. How many are in the room? ;-)
Don't get sniped, now...

Oh, crap. If I wasn't busy taking it the wrong way, I would have remembered the Birthday, uh, Paradox(?)/Puzzle(?) thingie we brought up earlier. Yep. The answer is 1. lol.

HES wrote:Also, does ETA stand for Edit To Add? I automatically transplate it to Estimated Time of Arrival which never makes any sense

That forum vocab messed me up, too. How about: Eldritch Terrestrial Abomination.

BlitzGirl wrote:And if you do math, you don't say you're doing maths... oh wait. :lol:

ETA = Edited To Add

azule wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:here's a distribution map Google found for me:

That appears to be highly political in distribution. Do the trees have voting rights?


I suggest we leave politics out of this, seems to drive some people barking mad. Soon someone's being called a sap and someone else is being called shady and someone fires up their chainsaw and CUTS THE FOREST TO THE GROUND...

Where's the game if you do all the work, BlitzGirl? Did you never learn to play with others? :(

BTW, my exact thought on the math issue. :D

jetpac wrote:I gathered that it somehow meant "Edit" but I've been quite confused as to what the "TA" stood for.

*cough* T&A, Edit for Tits and Ass.

Spoiler:
Image
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby k.bookbinder » Tue May 14, 2013 9:28 pm UTC

higgs-boson wrote:
k.bookbinder wrote:I like trees, too. I have received word that our neighbor is cutting down all his trees. We live on a beautiful wooded lot and I do not understand why someone would decide to cut them all down? His home is fully constructed so he does not need the wood. It makes me sad...for the birds and squirrels especially. Perhaps I shall put up more feeders, to help them cope.


Some rather irresponsible people planted the trees too close to the houses - or built the houses too close to the trees. As a general rule: If a tree in distress (stormy weather, age, whatever) endangers humans, the tree loses.

I'm not happy about it, too. I've seen it happen too often.



Spoiler:
cupressus-thingie.jpg


Indeed, such actions I could understand. Alas, such is not the case. The trees pose no danger of falling on the house, nor does the house pose a danger of falling on the trees. They are all quite healthy, house and trees alike. No, I think the neighbor, good person though he seems to be, has an odd aesthetic for removing obstructions from his "yard," even if that means felling 20 year old trees simply because they cross his property line.

I think I will indeed buy more suet and set out more feeders. The squirrels especially will be distressed.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Ebonite » Tue May 14, 2013 9:35 pm UTC

pelrigg wrote:loverly as a tree ong
Image

ETA
Maybe they will take a break
They should know what a tree is. They have lumber.

They don't see a tree. Based on their history, they probably see building material for another structure. :D
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ucim » Tue May 14, 2013 9:36 pm UTC

Pikrass wrote:...I look for my nickname on other people's messages even several newpages after my last one. I hope this doesn't make me egocentric.
Not at all, in fact, just the opposite. It gives you a chance to decide whether or not to reply to somebody who has quoted or mentioned you, rather than simply dismissing it by proxy. It says that their time spent responding to you is well spent.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby jetpac » Tue May 14, 2013 9:39 pm UTC

ucim wrote:
Pikrass wrote:...I look for my nickname on other people's messages even several newpages after my last one. I hope this doesn't make me egocentric.
Not at all, in fact, just the opposite. It gives you a chance to decide whether or not to reply to somebody who has quoted or mentioned you, rather than simply dismissing it by proxy. It says that their time spent responding to you is well spent.

Jose

Or, it says that you only think someone else's time is well spent if they spend it on something directly related to you :P

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Tue May 14, 2013 9:40 pm UTC

azule wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:
azule wrote:That appears to be highly political in distribution. Do the trees have voting rights?

I suggest we leave politics out of this, seems to drive some people barking mad. Soon someone's being called a sap and someone else is being called shady and someone fires up their chainsaw and CUTS THE FOREST TO THE GROUND...

Where's the game if you do all the work, BlitzGirl? Did you never learn to play with others? :(


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jetpac
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby jetpac » Tue May 14, 2013 9:42 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:
azule wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:
azule wrote:That appears to be highly political in distribution. Do the trees have voting rights?

I suggest we leave politics out of this, seems to drive some people barking mad. Soon someone's being called a sap and someone else is being called shady and someone fires up their chainsaw and CUTS THE FOREST TO THE GROUND...

Where's the game if you do all the work, BlitzGirl? Did you never learn to play with others? :(


I've been wary of opening the floor to general puns ever since my punning initiated the Bag Incident of Newpage 467.

That was truly a dark time

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby spamjam » Tue May 14, 2013 9:45 pm UTC

I want yew guys to stop this immediately!

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby richP » Tue May 14, 2013 9:47 pm UTC

k.bookbinder wrote:
Indeed, such actions I could understand. Alas, such is not the case. The trees pose no danger of falling on the house, nor does the house pose a danger of falling on the trees. They are all quite healthy, house and trees alike. No, I think the neighbor, good person though he seems to be, has an odd aesthetic for removing obstructions from his "yard," even if that means felling 20 year old trees simply because they cross his property line.

I think I will indeed buy more suet and set out more feeders. The squirrels especially will be distressed.

Buy a pair of binoculars and a dirty raincoat, stand in the street/alleyway/etc. and peer towards his house for a while.
I'm thinking new trees and shrubs may be planted in short order.

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Ebonite
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Ebonite » Tue May 14, 2013 9:48 pm UTC

spamjam wrote:I want yew guys to stop this immediately!

I wood, but I don't cedar point.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Tue May 14, 2013 9:50 pm UTC

No! Not the puns! Stop the puns!
*grabs chainsaw*
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cellocgw
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cellocgw » Tue May 14, 2013 9:50 pm UTC

Opiboble wrote:
jetpac wrote:
HES wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:And if you do math, you don't say you're doing maths... oh wait. :lol:


yeah, but, er, mathematics has an "s" on the end. You don't do mathematic. Anyway, a language doesn't have to be consistent to be correct :wink:

Good thing, too, since English is about as far from consistent as a language could be.

I don't know about that, I am sure given enough time we could make our own language that would be far less consistent then any sane person would even attempt to create.


You mean like Malboge ?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Eoink » Tue May 14, 2013 9:52 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:No! Not the puns! Stop the puns!
*grabs chainsaw*
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You'd stick at nothing to stop the puns, wood you?

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Exodies
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Exodies » Tue May 14, 2013 9:55 pm UTC

I hereby record my appreciation of ucim's Chapter 3.
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Opiboble
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Opiboble » Tue May 14, 2013 9:56 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:
Opiboble wrote:
jetpac wrote:
HES wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:And if you do math, you don't say you're doing maths... oh wait. :lol:


yeah, but, er, mathematics has an "s" on the end. You don't do mathematic. Anyway, a language doesn't have to be consistent to be correct :wink:

Good thing, too, since English is about as far from consistent as a language could be.

I don't know about that, I am sure given enough time we could make our own language that would be far less consistent then any sane person would even attempt to create.


You mean like Malboge ?


Yes, but worse, and for written language rather then coding.
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k.bookbinder
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby k.bookbinder » Tue May 14, 2013 9:56 pm UTC

richP wrote:
k.bookbinder wrote:
Indeed, such actions I could understand. Alas, such is not the case. The trees pose no danger of falling on the house, nor does the house pose a danger of falling on the trees. They are all quite healthy, house and trees alike. No, I think the neighbor, good person though he seems to be, has an odd aesthetic for removing obstructions from his "yard," even if that means felling 20 year old trees simply because they cross his property line.

I think I will indeed buy more suet and set out more feeders. The squirrels especially will be distressed.

Buy a pair of binoculars and a dirty raincoat, stand in the street/alleyway/etc. and peer towards his house for a while.
I'm thinking new trees and shrubs may be planted in short order.


Such is not a good idea. I live in a state where gun ownership is high, and, being in a rural area, it is higher still. No, our lots back up to a wooded area (I cannot rightly call it a forest or woods) and I believe that he is just cutting back to his property line. Such is the way of things. Still, my own lot is tree friendly and full of shade and neighbor has some nice trees out front, so is not a complete loss, I suppose. Not like when they cleared most of the land behind us and left it all felled. Nothing has yet been built and not 40 paces from our home it is a scene of many many broken trees. Sad.

StratPlayer, you had an abundance of cake in celebration for your 600th post. I think I need cheering up. Any more left?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby spamjam » Tue May 14, 2013 9:57 pm UTC

Ebonite wrote:
spamjam wrote:I want yew guys to stop this immediately!

I wood, but I don't cedar point.

I'm just thinking of alder time I'm gonna waste, ya know, not being able to see the needle-pulling thing through for the puns.
Last edited by spamjam on Tue May 14, 2013 11:13 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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k.bookbinder
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby k.bookbinder » Tue May 14, 2013 9:58 pm UTC

Eoink wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:No! Not the puns! Stop the puns!
*grabs chainsaw*
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You'd stick at nothing to stop the puns, wood you?


You must forgive him, BlitzGirl, for some are rooted in their ways and will not bough to the will of others.
"HAL9000" This thread is a goldmine for signatures.
"StratPlayer" All in all, that sand paper rubbed me the wrong way.
"charlie_grumbles" The secret of the geeks. "Copy, Borrow, Steal, Succeed"
"ucim" There's a forestful of treeish people here.

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