1348: "Before the Internet"

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Pfhorrest
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Re: 1348: "Before the Internet"

Postby Pfhorrest » Tue May 13, 2014 5:28 pm UTC

Steve the Pocket wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:That's what I think of as "suburban". You're somewhere between civilization and wilderness, somewhere between urban and rural. Maybe we need another term for that, to distinguish it from the unending miles and miles of identical tract housing spreading in every direction from the big cities. "Subrural" maybe?

If you're talking about the middle-of-nowhere sprawls that I was talking about, I've heard the term "exurbs" from time to time, but it doesn't seem to have caught on.

I wouldn't describe it as either middle-of-nowhere, or as a sprawl, so I don't think "exurb" really applies. The place I'm talking about is not some new development built off in the distance away from a big city and wholly dependent on it; it was its own small town already in the days when the nearest bigger cities were founded, and it simply hasn't been merged into their sprawl despite its proximity because there are some convenient wilderness boundaries (small mountains and a river) surrounding it. (I saw something recently referring to it as "one of the last true small towns in America"). But the effect of it could be achieved in new developments too, if swaths of undeveloped parkland were set aside as boundaries separating little self-sufficient "small towns" where tracts of housing surround hubs of small businesses.

Now that I think about it, even the larger cities around here (south central coast of California) follow that kind of pattern on a bigger scale. It's not like the eastern seaboard or the LA-San Diego conurbation, where you just drive through continuous urban/suburban development and just pass signs declaring the name of the city to change. When you leave Ventura headed north you drive through a bit of nothing (punctuated by small towns like Carpinteria and Montecito) until you hit the next city of Santa Barbara, which does seamlessly blend into the neighboring city of Goleta yes, but then you have a big stretch of nothing (punctuated by more small towns like Solvang, Buellton, and Lompoc) until you reach Santa Maria, then another stretch of nothing (punctuated by more small towns) until you reach San Luis Obispo, and so on up the coast.

That's the kind of landscape I grew up with, so as a child I always thought of places like e.g. Thousand Oaks (which is not even in LA County) as being "LA" because there's no gap of wilderness between it and LA, it's just continuous city the whole way.

And yeah I do know that big conurbations do have big parks in the middle of them so residents can get a bit of nature, but that just feels backward. Islands of nature in a sea of city is backward, I mean; much better to have islands of civilization in a sea of nature. And repeat that pattern fractally: neighborhoods with a core of small businesses surrounded by housing surrounded by a bit of wilderness or park land; clusters of those neighborhoods around a city center and all of that surrounded by a bit of wilderness; clusters of those small towns surrounding a larger urban area, and then all that separated from the next such cluster by a bit of country. That way nobody is ever lost in unending suburbia (or urbia, or ruria), you're always somewhere along a relatively short gradient from urban to rural wherever you go.
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The Codex Quaerendae (my philosophy) - The Chronicles of Quelouva (my fiction)

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freezeblade
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Re: 1348: "Before the Internet"

Postby freezeblade » Tue May 13, 2014 7:12 pm UTC

Pforrest, are you from near where I grew up then? because that describes my home town pretty much to a 'T'

People have been complaining about it's downfall since the Starbucks got built there, driving out one of the only locally owned coffee shops, and now that there is a McDonalds going in along the main road...

(Actually, they've been complaining since the Ralph's moved in, and before that when the locally owned grocery store, William's Brothers, got bought by Vons, etc.)

Los Osos is a funny little town, that's for sure.
Belial wrote:I am not even in the same country code as "the mood for this shit."

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Pfhorrest
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Re: 1348: "Before the Internet"

Postby Pfhorrest » Tue May 13, 2014 7:26 pm UTC

Nearish enough I guess, yeah. I'm from Ojai originally and currently, with a decade or so in Santa Barabara / Goleta in the middle there.
Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of All Trades
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
The Codex Quaerendae (my philosophy) - The Chronicles of Quelouva (my fiction)

jimhsu
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Re: 1348: "Before de Internet"

Postby jimhsu » Sat May 17, 2014 6:50 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:Okay, so not only durable but also usable longer even without physical degradation.

But apart from long-term projects where you can't make frequent backup copies, digital is superior for most everyday uses.


As far as high density digital storage goes, you probably can't do better than microengraving binary onto Teflon-coated iridium plates, or similar substances. It's just that for virtually all data, such longevity is neither necessary, called for, or anticipated.

https://security.stackexchange.com/ques ... ta-storage

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Re: 1348: "Before de Internet"

Postby addams » Sat May 17, 2014 10:13 pm UTC

jimhsu wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:Okay, so not only durable but also usable longer even without physical degradation.

But apart from long-term projects where you can't make frequent backup copies, digital is superior for most everyday uses.


As far as high density digital storage goes, you probably can't do better than microengraving binary onto Teflon-coated iridium plates, or similar substances. It's just that for virtually all data, such longevity is neither necessary, called for, or anticipated.

https://security.stackexchange.com/ques ... ta-storage

I have listened to very bright people discuss data storage.
Those conversations always loop back around to Stone.

Carve it into Stone.
Then it will last.

Humanity has examples of data that are carved into stone.
That data has outlasted Humanities ability to read it.

If you put your data into the best hard drive of your day,
Then leave it for fifteen years, it will be as outdated as Punch cards and Beta VCR's.

In thirty years it will be unreadable by all save a select machine or two.
If you want your data to last. Carve it in Stone.

Security is not an issue.
No one will read it.

Edit: No one will be able to read it.
Maybe, someone can read it, today.

Who wants to read your data?
Why?

Everyone is busy with their own data.
Why? Do you want your data carved in Stone?

Loads of people do. It does not matter 'Why?'. Does it?
Burial Sites are loaded with personal data carved in Stone.


Politically Incorrect:
And; Off Topic.

Spoiler:
I had an Idea!
It may not be a very good one.

A. People like Marked Burial Sites.
Not all. Many. I know a little about it.

B. The Americans were sort'a mean.
They went into a Sovereign Nation with a Death Squad.
Death Squad? A Professional Trained Team of Assassins.

The Elite. The ones used for Emergencies.
Those are the ones sent in to get Hostages Out.


They Played Panda. They 8, Shoots and Leave.
Well?? That's the way I heard it.

They Killed an Old Mystic Man in the Middle East.
(that can't look good on your permeant record)

The man was Dead. Enough Said? No!!
I heard it from multiple sources.
It might not be true. Still...
As awful as it is; This is the way I heard it.

After the man was dead, they photographed him.
Then, motivated by Fear of an Old Mystic Man, after his death,
They dumped his body in the Ocean, somewhere. (fuck. Really?)

Why did they do that?
I'm not upset about that part.

I don't like the Unsightly Disposals like the Europeans used to do.
Cut his head off and display it on the only bridge in town. (ickk)

We must do something with the body.
Well...Not, We, the US, somebody does.

For some reason there was a big deal made of that Body Disposal.
The US was afraid of some Old Mystic Man. So Weird. It scares me.

The Idea: We can make a thing Of Rock with that Guy's Data on it.

Then photograph everyone that visits.
Arrest them and charge them with Thinking.

See? It's an Idea.
It's not a good one.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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mathmannix
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Re: 1348: "Before the Internet"

Postby mathmannix » Tue May 20, 2014 9:10 pm UTC

Steve the Pocket wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:That's what I think of as "suburban". You're somewhere between civilization and wilderness, somewhere between urban and rural. Maybe we need another term for that, to distinguish it from the unending miles and miles of identical tract housing spreading in every direction from the big cities. "Subrural" maybe?

If you're talking about the middle-of-nowhere sprawls that I was talking about, I've heard the term "exurbs" from time to time, but it doesn't seem to have caught on.


FWIW, the term "exurb" is used somewhat regularly around here (Washington, D.C. metro area) by the media. The suburbs are the inner ring of towns around the big city (some of which are high-density, high-crime, low-income, etc., but definitely not all due to rejuvenation efforts) and take the metro (aka subway) into the city. The exurbs are farther out, where many commuters live and take an hour-or-more-long commuter train ride to work.
I hear velociraptor tastes like chicken.

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addams
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Re: 1348: "Before the Internet"

Postby addams » Tue May 20, 2014 11:28 pm UTC

mathmannix wrote:
Steve the Pocket wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:That's what I think of as "suburban". You're somewhere between civilization and wilderness, somewhere between urban and rural. Maybe we need another term for that, to distinguish it from the unending miles and miles of identical tract housing spreading in every direction from the big cities. "Subrural" maybe?

If you're talking about the middle-of-nowhere sprawls that I was talking about, I've heard the term "exurbs" from time to time, but it doesn't seem to have caught on.


FWIW, the term "exurb" is used somewhat regularly around here (Washington, D.C. metro area) by the media. The suburbs are the inner ring of towns around the big city (some of which are high-density, high-crime, low-income, etc., but definitely not all due to rejuvenation efforts) and take the metro (aka subway) into the city. The exurbs are farther out, where many commuters live and take an hour-or-more-long commuter train ride to work.

Harper's Ferry?
It is nice out that way.

A very European feel.
Out in the middle of NoWhere.
Surrounded by Civilization.

Some of the structures are hundreds of years old.
That Peace and Tranquillity is too expensive for the people from The Ring of High Density, Low Income Areas?

The ones that need it most are bared from entry?
It, sort of, makes sense.

Cheney says, "They make everywhere they go a Slum."
I advocated education. The people disagree with me.

Therefore; They prove Cheney correct.
I don't like being wrong. I was wrong.

I was not the only one that was wrong.
When education was valued for its development of The Man, it worked.

It seemed we had loads of thinkers surrounding small pools of the dangerously ignorant.
Today we have loads of the dangerously ignorant suffocating intellectualism in its sleep.

The most likely truth is I am in a less academic environment.
I see fewer people exhibiting the personality traits caused by academic Brain Washing.

When your brain is freshly washed, is it unruly?
Does the internet give your Brain that freshly washed feeling?


off topic gossip:
Spoiler:
Today a man told me he does not respect education.
"Education is Brain Washing." He said.

Same man in the same short conversation told me
"Any censorship of Media destroys my Freedom."

He hates TV.
He turned his off.

He said he was exhibiting freedom.
I believe him.

I think he got Brain Washed without the Education.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.


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