Actual (Association) Football Talk.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Heisenberg » Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:14 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:We nearly tied it up at the end though...

Dempsey's header? That cross at the very end was just shameful. We had a few opportunities, but most of them were ruined by our own incompetence.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby roband » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:24 pm UTC

ahammel wrote:
roband wrote:
Cathode Ray Sunshine wrote:Yes, he's a nutcase

I disagree.

Would you disagree had he not scored 70-odd goals for the Reds?

I honestly believe so. I know that no-one will believe me (no-one has so far, anyway), but I admit when I'm speaking from a biased point of view. This is not one of those times.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby ahammel » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:31 pm UTC

So what about the whole serial biting thing doesn't sound nutty to you?
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:51 pm UTC

Well done to Algeria. So here's the full draw for the knockout stages

Top half:

Brazil v Chile
Colombia v Uruguay

France v Nigeria
Germany v Algeria

Bottom half:

Netherlands v Mexico
Costa Rica v Greece

Argentina v Switzerland
Belgium v USA

I'll stick to my original Argentina v Germany final prediction!
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby roband » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:53 pm UTC

ahammel wrote:So what about the whole serial biting thing doesn't sound nutty to you?
I've gone into it in some depth on reddit and have little interest in typing it all out again, but basically:

I don't think it's a mental health issue. I don't think he's crazy. I don't even think he's "seen red" or "lost it". I think he has knowingly and whilst in complete control, decided to do what he's done.
The situation is, it's 0-0 and Uruguay need a goal or they're out of the competition (ringing any bells with 4 years ago?). He decides to take it into his own hands, choosing to bite Chiellini in an attempt to make him react angrily or lash out. Suarez chooses to bite when the referee is not looking, to try and make Chiellini retaliate when the referee IS looking, to earn a penalty/red card.
I think he knows he'll be punished after the game. I think he's desperate to gain ANY advantage in-match, which they can't take away from the team afterwards.
It didn't pay off this time, but they did win.

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Diadem
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Diadem » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:06 pm UTC

Not sure if it was calculated. He must have known he'd face a very heavy suspension for a third time offence. Do you really think he's willing to risk his career just to get into the round of 16? With basically no glory for him because even if they do win, he won't be a part of it?

He probably was just very frustrated with the way things were going, and lost control.

That still doesn't make him insane though. Doing something bad while under exceptionally high pressure doesn't make you insane.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby PolakoVoador » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:09 pm UTC

Trying to get any advantage by diliberatly bitting/hurting other players is not cool, and stupid at many levels.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby ahammel » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:13 pm UTC

Perhaps it was calculated and he is simply very stupid and thought he would get away with it.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby roband » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:23 pm UTC

PolakoVoador wrote:Trying to get any advantage by diliberatly bitting/hurting other players is not cool, and stupid at many levels.
I totally agree.
ahammel wrote:Perhaps it was calculated and he is simply very stupid and thought he would get away with it.

Possibly.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby PolakoVoador » Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:27 am UTC

Insane is kind of a strong word to use. To me, he clearly has impulse control issues. Three times biting other players? This is no coincidence, Suarez needs help. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to want help.

As pointed out before, his denial of the event is ridiculous, he is not fooling anyone. If he had acknowledged his mistake, anything like "I deeply regret it, it was a stupid mistake", I could perhaps retain some respect for him. But alas, he will deny to the end of his days, and Uruguay officially states his punishment is some sort of conspiracy against them. Sigh.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:51 am UTC

Considering he was hardly contrite after the previous occasions, I wouldn't expect him to suddenly become apologetic this time round.

Anyway enough about Suarez, second round tomorrow!
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Diadem » Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:08 am UTC

Enough about Suarez? But it's all so entertaining. Now we have Maradona publicly defending Suarez. The most overrated football player ever, whose main achievement is cheating his way to the world cup, defending the most overrated current player. This is pure comedy gold.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby roband » Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:57 am UTC

You think Suarez is overrated?

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby ahammel » Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:31 pm UTC

Brazil and Uruguay out in the first round. Netherlands to finally have their revenge against Germany in the final. You heard it here first.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:51 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:Enough about Suarez? But it's all so entertaining. Now we have Maradona publicly defending Suarez. The most overrated football player ever, whose main achievement is cheating his way to the world cup, defending the most overrated current player. This is pure comedy gold.


Maradona is the most overrated footballer ever?! Are you serious? He's one of the greatest footballers ever. And one act of cheating doesn't overshadow his brilliance or the fact he won a World Cup for Argentina almost on his own. He even helped Napoli to two Serie A titles, which would have never happened without him. Maradona's character flaws were clear to see over the years, but they don't detract from his genius.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:08 pm UTC

Good game, fun penalty shoot-out. More please! And hope Colombia win now so I don't have to hear about Suarez again during this World Cup.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby PolakoVoador » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:14 pm UTC

Brazil had more luck than quality today. If they keep playing like this, I can't see them going much further

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:21 pm UTC

On another day, Brazil might have got that penalty and that goal might not have been disallowed (not saying those were both the wrong decision, but they could have gone either way), so I think the luck cut both ways this time. People are being far too critical of them, sure they haven't been amazing but they're in the quarter-finals. And it's not like there's a flawless contender so far anyway.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby ahammel » Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:54 pm UTC

JAMES RODRIGUEZ THAT'S RIDICULOUS!
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Wonderbolt » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:29 pm UTC

I just want to comment on Dirk Kuyt's performance in today's Holland v Mexico match. That guy's is 33 years old, played the entire 90 minutes on 3 different positions due to tactical changes by Louis van Gaal, and just kept running the entire freaking match. Oh, and it was like 35 degrees Celsius out there.

HOW IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE?

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby ahammel » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:43 pm UTC

Wonderbolt wrote:I just want to comment on Dirk Kuyt's performance in today's Holland v Mexico match. That guy's is 33 years old, played the entire 90 minutes on 3 different positions due to tactical changes by Louis van Gaal, and just kept running the entire freaking match. Oh, and it was like 35 degrees Celsius out there.

HOW IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE?
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Wonderbolt » Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:46 pm UTC

ahammel wrote:A real hero that one.

Today I also heard the brilliant "Around 57% of Brazil is covered by rainforest. The rest is covered by Dirk Kuyt."

As for the rest of the match, it was really fun to watch, although rather painful until and a little after the 1-0 for us Dutch supporters. After that, it looked like the Dutch team finally woke up (and props to LvG for his brilliant tactical changes) and were able to make things harder for Mexico. From 60' onwards, it became mostly just Dutch players shooting stuff at Ochoa and everyone was just waiting for the 1-1 to happen.

Ultimately, I think Herrera might at least be somewhat to blame for the second part of the game. After the 1-0, he tried a more defensive play until the end of the game, and that just doesn't work against Holland. Holland's attackers are just too good, so they should probably have kept the pressure on the (kinda mediocre, especially after De Jong's injury) defense.

Also crap, I don't care about football at all, but here I am being all orange and talking like I know what the fuck I'm talking about.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby leady » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:57 am UTC

I'm a Liverpool man so naturally I'm biased, but I always liked Kuyt because its difficult not to like someone who work that damn hard for the team. Its a shame his actual skills are mediocre (as in for the premier league ...)

The Robben penalty though.. i think if I'm reffing I agree he is tripped but he is never getting to that ball hence why he goes down with flapping wings - so not given in my book. I think the formal rules have that fuzzy "in possession" clause that is interpretted in the attackers favour these days.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby gnutrino » Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:07 am UTC

leady wrote:The Robben penalty though.. i think if I'm reffing I agree he is tripped but he is never getting to that ball hence why he goes down with flapping wings - so not given in my book. I think the formal rules have that fuzzy "in possession" clause that is interpretted in the attackers favour these days.


I think it had a lot to do with the really obvious penalty that the ref didn't give Robben in the first half, after that he sort of had to give him the benefit of the doubt.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:42 pm UTC

Robben is a prat, but it was a penalty. People are just annoyed because the underdogs lost late on and it's much easier to take if you have someone to play the villain.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby leady » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:58 pm UTC

I'm not saying it was a dive - I'm saying that hes never getting to the ball so I don't give it

however I'm not an international quality referee :) (then again, I'm not sure several sets are at the tournament...)

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby ahammel » Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:29 pm UTC

One thing I noticed about Kuyt's game: the stadium was half in sun half in shade. In the first half, Kuyt was on the left, in the full sun, making runs up and down the pitch like a champ. And then in the second half van Gaal switches the poor bastard to the right so he's still in the full sun. Didn't slow down.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Diadem » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:48 pm UTC

I am obviously not entirely objective here, but I don't see why there is even any doubt it was a penalty. I mean, sure, it wasn't a bone-splintering kick on the knee, but he was clearly touched, and brought off-balance by that. Robben's theatrics were annoying, and he shouldn't do that, but overselling a foul doesn't make it not a foul. Would he have gotten the ball? Perhaps not. But Robben is insanely fast, and he was moving at speed, so it's not clear he wouldn't have gotten it. It would have been a very difficult position to score from, but that is not relevant. A penalty is not only given for situations that would otherwise have resulted in a guaranteed goal. Again, I'm obviously not entirely objective here, but I really don't see where the doubt it.

Anyway, he certainly should have gotten a penalty in the first half, when Mexico made not one but 2 serious fouls on him in the same action. And there were two other borderline cases later in the match, if I recall correctly.

And Kuyt is just awesome. That guy just keeps going, and going. Even if he's not the most technically gifted player around, he's invaluable to the team just because of his spirit. Keep in mind though, Dirk Kuyt is not a god. If he had been, weeks would have been 5 days and there would not have been a Sunday.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby ahammel » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:28 pm UTC

I wonder if a video review system would have any effect on the theatrics. If you can challenge the call, there's no point in going over like a bowling pin and screaming like you've been shot, just have it reviewed.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby mike-l » Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:38 pm UTC

Robben did admit to diving earlier in the game, and he definitely embellished the foul, but nonetheless it was a definite foul. Soured my opinion of him though.

What I find surprising is that he's the only player that I've heard the commentators really hammer on for diving, which frustrates me as there are tons of other players doing it. Id like to see them talk about it more, instead of just the particular player(s?) they have a hate on for
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Diadem » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:02 pm UTC

Diving is bad, but I think it is good that he owes up to it. He didn't just say he dived in the first half, he apologized for it, calling it a bad habit he needs to get rid of. That's a lot more self insight than most.

I'm not sure what I think of the Dutch style. Traditionally the Dutch team always tries to play very beautiful, very attacking football, with few fouls or theatrics. The last few years this has changed. They play a lot more opportunistically, which is good, and makes them a lot more successful, but they also seem to make a lot more fouls. I definitely hate that. There's still a few good things though. While the Dutch team makes a lot of fouls, none of them so far were particularly serious. Nothing deserving a red card or a penalty. I also really, really, really hate all this whining and begging towards the referee, and all the fake injuries, and the Dutch side is still blissfully free of those. Diving is next on the list of things I hate, so I really wish Robben would stop doing it, but it luckily doesn't happen that often. Plenty of teams are much worse.


In other news: Both France and Germany win, as expected, but both wins were very tough, hard fought victories. Brasil and The Netherlands also had a very tough time. So far all the favorites are struggling, which is definitely not a bad thing for this tournament's entertainment value.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Wonderbolt » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:16 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:I'm not sure what I think of the Dutch style. Traditionally the Dutch team always tries to play very beautiful, very attacking football, with few fouls or theatrics. The last few years this has changed. They play a lot more opportunistically, which is good, and makes them a lot more successful, but they also seem to make a lot more fouls. I definitely hate that. There's still a few good things though. While the Dutch team makes a lot of fouls, none of them so far were particularly serious. Nothing deserving a red card or a penalty. I also really, really, really hate all this whining and begging towards the referee, and all the fake injuries, and the Dutch side is still blissfully free of those. Diving is next on the list of things I hate, so I really wish Robben would stop doing it, but it luckily doesn't happen that often. Plenty of teams are much worse.

I really think the FIFA ought to take a good long look at their sport and see what needs changing. Not that that's going to happen, of course, but the fact is that 'ugly' football with many of those things you mentioned makes teams win more matches. If that needs to change (and I believe it does), the FIFA needs to step in and do something. We can hardly expect professional teams to change their style to more 'beautiful' football if it means they no longer win as often.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby PolakoVoador » Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:35 am UTC

This might had to be in the awesome thread, but I'm putting it here: Germany vs Algeria was here in my hometown, and half an hour before the start of the match me and my sister went to the stadium to try and buy tickets from someone there. We managed to buy two, side by side, really close to the field. It was awesome. :D

Now, the game: repeating Brazil and the Netherlands, Germany had to sweat blood in order to defeat suposedly weaker teams. Until now, none of the big ones have been completly convincing. Next stages should be unpredictable and fun.

Also: Müller sliping was hilarious after all that preparation.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Carlington » Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:44 am UTC

I can't get on here as often as I'd like at the moment, nor can I watch the games live, because time zones, but I'd like to get it down in writing that I called France winning, I called Germany only just scraping through, and I am now calling Argentina and Belgium will win tomorrow, giving us an equal number of Euro and South American teams in the quarter finals. Brazil vs. Colombia will be one to watch for sure, but really, all the matches should be very interesting - France vs. Germany, I don't know who will make it through, I'd lean in favour of Netherlands beating Costa Rica based on momentum, but I really don't want to call it, and assuming we see Argentina vs. Belgium, I'm going to have to agree with a mate of mine here and say that Belgium will push through. He thinks, and I'm not sure I agree, that we'll see Belgium and Colombia in the big one. Nothing would surprise me at this point, though.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Zamfir » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:41 am UTC


Now, the game: repeating Brazil and the Netherlands, Germany had to sweat blood in order to defeat suposedly weaker teams. Until now, none of the big ones have been completly convincing. Next stages should be unpredictable and fun.

This is not unusual, is it? The best players are typically also the players who were played to the max by their club teams, with the champions league as special burden. That acts as moderating influence, it allows teams to compete without all-star lists. If anything, I'd say the current Dutch team already benefits from this dynamic. Outside of a few strikers, it's not really an a-list team.


For a while, I thought the champions league might end up killing the country tournaments. Especially after the 2002 world championship and 2004 European championship, when most teams seemed relieved when they lost and could go home to rest. It has improved since then.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby roband » Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:59 am UTC

Nice predictions Carlington. You should put some money down!

I can't see Belgium getting to the final. Mainly because they don't seem like a team, they seem like 11 very good individual players. I could be wrong.

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby Diadem » Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:09 pm UTC

Belgium defeating the USA seems likely (though by no means certain). Beating Argentina though, I'm not sure. I give them less than 50%. I do hope they win though, because a The Netherlands - Belgium semi final would be awesome. Only teams left from Europe or the Americas by the way. And if Belgium wins, it'll only be teams from Europe and South America. The rest of the world still has a long ways to go.

Oh and I have a question. After his goal against Mexico, Van Huntelaar kicked the corner flag while celebrating. I was wondering if that is allowed. Does anybody know what the rules say about that?
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby neymarxxx » Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:20 pm UTC

Fully looking forward to Neymar vs James

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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby ahammel » Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:27 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:
Oh and I have a question. After his goal against Mexico, Van Huntelaar kicked the corner flag while celebrating. I was wondering if that is allowed. Does anybody know what the rules say about that?

They've never prevented Tim Cahill from punching it.

Removing the corner flag entirely is a yellow card if you don't put it back (although somebody got away with it earlier in the tournament, can't remember who). A card for knocking it around a bit in celebration would be awfully harsh. It won't damage it, I wouldn't think.

I did pretty terrible at predicting the group stages, and I had tipped Chile to beat Brazil, so I'm pretty well out of it if Belgium don't win today.
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Re: Actual (Association) Football Talk.

Postby charliepanayi » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:33 pm UTC

This is starting to feel like 2006 all over again. Great group stage, boring knockout stage. Only one first half goal since Brazil v Chile! I really hope Belgium v USA doesn't live up to my expectations of a dull 1-0 Belgium win/0-0 draw and penalties.
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