You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

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karhell
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby karhell » Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:38 pm UTC

Envelope Generator wrote:I seem to have downloaded Calendar Update Simulator 2014 by accident.

Yeah, its a bit slow on larger worlds. Looking good, though :D
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:40 pm UTC

Currently in the middle of my first year. Embarked in a swamp; trees only have 1 trunk. Oh well. Lots and lots of wood from them, and loving all the new plants. Haven't figured out how to get the seeds from them to grow my own onions; my stills and kitchens just got set up. Should be interesting when the humans and elves show up to trade.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Envelope Generator » Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:56 pm UTC

I've gotten three sudden crashes out of three adventurers, none of the games made it through day 2... I'm just going to climb trees until bugfix releases start rolling in.
I'm going to step off the LEM now... here we are, Pismo Beach and all the clams we can eat

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:06 am UTC

My dwarves are much more detailed in their descriptions, and relationships are slightly more complex.

We just need dwarven adoptions and gay dwarves.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Mishrak » Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:10 pm UTC

A really good article by Polygon on World Generation in DF.

http://www.polygon.com/2014/7/23/592644 ... ry-is-hard

It's important to Adams, and to his players, to have all this backstory in place before the gameplay even begins. After all, he says, you have to, "keep track of which historical figure was dragged into a night creature's lair so that you can find their body parts simmering in the cauldron."

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:02 pm UTC

Yet more proof that Dwarf Fortress is a government project to distract serial killers.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:32 pm UTC

Mishrak wrote:A really good article by Polygon on World Generation in DF.

http://www.polygon.com/2014/7/23/592644 ... ry-is-hard

It's important to Adams, and to his players, to have all this backstory in place before the gameplay even begins. After all, he says, you have to, "keep track of which historical figure was dragged into a night creature's lair so that you can find their body parts simmering in the cauldron."

I didn't realize how involved it was...

Maybe we're Roko's Basilisk.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Mishrak » Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:58 pm UTC


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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Envelope Generator » Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:35 pm UTC

Just as I feared, the bugfix releases have made the game more than solid enough to waste hours upon hours in. The adv mode is by now the best roguelike ever. I'm just now in the wilderness about a human town, tracking down a lizardman who attacked a shopkeeper, but it doesn't look like I'm going to find him.
I'm going to step off the LEM now... here we are, Pismo Beach and all the clams we can eat

eSOANEM wrote:If Fonzie's on the order of 100 zeptokelvin, I think he has bigger problems than difracting through doors.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Mishrak » Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:01 pm UTC

I still need to play that. Really bad. I've never learned it.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:35 pm UTC

My attempts at the Adventurer mode always end with me taking an arrow in the throat and dying. That or trying to train up my swimming skill and the river instantly turning to ice.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Biliboy » Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:46 am UTC

Somehow ended up reading www.bravemule.com and realized I missed this game.

Time to figure out how to get one of the graphics packs working and start a new fort.

Or maybe reading about other people's forts is more interesting than playing myself, I dunno.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Mutex » Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:41 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:My attempts at the Adventurer mode always end with me taking an arrow in the throat and dying.


Not an arrow to the knee then.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:52 pm UTC

Nope, I don't get to retire to guard duty.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby karhell » Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:16 pm UTC

Those hit by arrows seldom live to tell the tale...

*the flying ☼Llama bone arrow☼ strikes you in the left knee, chipping the bone*
*you pass out from pain*

cue instant head stabbing contest and swift bleeding out to death...
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby rath358 » Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:13 am UTC

Finally got around to picking up the latest version. Picked a spot near the ocean, started making progress breaking through a multi layer aquifer.

Then a tree dropped its branches, killing a dwarf underground under where the collapse happened. Interesting new feature...

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Mishrak » Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:34 pm UTC

Chopping trees is definitely more dangerous and more nuanced in this version. I haven't touched it yet, but I will once Toady finishes his continued wave of bug fixes.

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Using "what if"-genetic system in a game

Postby Bersaelor » Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:15 am UTC

Dear xkcd-forum,

I've been reading the what-if entries from it's inception and recently started developing game based on Dwarf Fortress called Formicarium.

It already had a lot of genetics and just last week I read the page 158 "Self-Fertilization" piece. It wasn't released on the web before, wasn't it?

Anyway, I was already using a similar system, yet the Idea with the multipliers in the genetic system is so great I just had to put it to use :)
(Since we mostly have Insects and plants the amount of copies of chromosomes in my game can vary between 1(halpoid drones) and 4 sets (hybrid plants) )
But yes, with the multiplier's the genes got a lot more interesting and inbreeding is a force to be dealt with by the player.

Thank you Randall!

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Xanthir » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:42 am UTC

What "page 158" thing?
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Sizik » Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:14 pm UTC

There's a What-If in the book called "Self-Fertilization" on page 158 (source: Amazon look inside).
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Bersaelor » Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:19 pm UTC

Also, our campaign followers were asking about the genetics model we use, so we made a graphic in the context of our game, thought you guys might like it too.

Any link/image I tried posting counted as spam, so you'll have to add a dot to the following: imgur com/HZmDYxQ

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby pogrmman » Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:24 pm UTC

Well, DF now has 64-bit support, finally!

Also, the recent updates have added a TON of new content, from multi-tile trees, to better personalities, to lots of bugfixes, to construction in adventure mode, to taverns and churches and libraries, worship needs, automatic work orders, and lots more. I recommend getting back into it if you were in the past!

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby DaBigCheez » Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:33 pm UTC

Have been feeling the need to scratch the DF itch a bit lately. Does the new version have an LNP out yet (or any similar pack / replacement)?
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby pogrmman » Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:10 pm UTC

DaBigCheez wrote:Have been feeling the need to scratch the DF itch a bit lately. Does the new version have an LNP out yet (or any similar pack / replacement)?


When did you last play? -- It's changed a lot from 0.34.11 (which was the most recent version until 2014) and a fair amount from 0.40.24 (which was the most recent version until the end of last year)

LNP still exists, and is updated, but I don't think it works with 64-bit DF yet. Dwarf Therapist (and probably DFHack) only work with 32-bit.

Personally, I don't use LNP, so I'm not familiar with it. (I sometimes use DT though once my fort hits ~100 dwarves).

Some things to know: military isn't as cruical as it used to be. Invasions are less frequent, as they are actual historical figures now -- not generated on site. World gen continues as your fort goes on, so battles are fought and the like while you are fortressing. You will get dwarves from previous forts you made as immigrants.

EDIT: Here's the most recent LNP thread on the bay12games forums.. It looks like it's using 0.43.03, so not quite up to date (most recent is 0.43.06 -- the 64-bit update). I'd still take a look at it if I were you. 0.43.03 is very stable and works well. There are only minor differences between it and the most recent version (mostly, a lack of 64-bit support).

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby New User » Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:02 pm UTC

Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam. I was surprised at the news. I'm also uncertain as to the game's future. They said on Bay12 that the free version will still be available and will be regularly updated. Are they also going to update the Steam version? It might just be the same version with a tile set. It's also compatible with Steam Workshop, for whatever that's worth.

I understand that this move was because they felt they needed more money for their expected medical bills in the future (apparently Zach has cancer). I have never donated to Bay12, but I am financially stable enough in my life right now that I can afford a lot of things that I couldn't in the past. So I'll have to decide if I want to support them by a donation or through buying the game on Steam, or both.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:01 pm UTC

New User wrote:Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam. I was surprised at the news. I'm also uncertain as to the game's future. They said on Bay12 that the free version will still be available and will be regularly updated. Are they also going to update the Steam version? It might just be the same version with a tile set. It's also compatible with Steam Workshop, for whatever that's worth.

My understanding is that the Steam Version is literally the real version, with a tileset, that will be updated as the real version is updated but handled by another company (so expect 24-48 hour delay, I guess?) so that neither one of the brothers have to figure out the logistics and testing and all that of the Steam version.

I don't see it "stealing" customers away from the base, I see it adding new ones though. Whether or not that translates to more permanent donators, I don't know, but it should result in a one-time large influx of cash.

I was unaware of the cancer diagnosis, though. :(
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby HES » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:20 pm UTC

New User wrote:So I'll have to decide if I want to support them by a donation or through buying the game on Steam, or both.

What cut do Valve take, 40%?
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby EdgarJPublius » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:53 pm UTC

Valve's cut is 30%, though just recently they've changed things so if you sell enough copies they'll take a smaller cut.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby CorruptUser » Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:43 am UTC

In fairness, Valve's cut of 30% is much, much less than a typical retailer's 50% cut. Plus, all the constant "sales" result in people buying tons of games they'd never actually buy, and then there's the abomination that is DLC. I mean, Stellaris is a great base game and all, but 75% of the game seems to be addons. Want ringworlds? Want death stars? Want borg? Want to play as a race of Groot? Sorry, gotta pay up.

Oh wait, where was I? Eh, not sure I need DF as a steam purchase. I can just download any ol' tileset anyway. Haven't bothered though, half of the charm of DF is that it has beyond terrible graphics but absolutely everything is beyond detailed, and every time Toady tries to make it more realistic the game gets more insane.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Soupspoon » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:23 pm UTC

I see it as a possibly useful spreading of the word beyond the traditional audience, but it will require some effort to change it from perfectly-playable-but-quirkily-interfaced to a kind of LNP++ package that doesn't force the "I support Indie Developers (but only because I see them on Steam)" new 'customers' to do things like delve into Art folders and text config files.


I'm not sure it's going to be the direct income source it might be, but already (pre-prerelease) it's getting attention that might bolster the prior payment/donation route with the people who only waited this long to find it (announced) on Steam and/or Itch because it had passed them by elsewhere.

(None of the 'extras' so far identified as items for the Steam release are of much interest to me, though. I'm already many years hooked. I appreciate the myriad current tilesets for what they do, but never go beyond the ASCIIlike default in my own use because it works well enough and possiblly (for me) better. Sound? Not an appeal. Maybe the UI updates would help, but mostly anything additionally mouse-based is lost on me, I suspect.)

I actually created a Steam account to add technical advice to the DF subforums of their area, given the number of questions asked by the fresh 'intake' of DF-aware people, that weren't being (properly) answered, but found that I don't qualify for posting yet because I'm not yet willing to credit Steam a minimum spend/etc. I'm in many ways the exact opposite of the crowd the Steam release is intended to draw in, but I can still see it doing some good towards the stated aim of donations outwith of Patreon and a renewed product-recognition vibe.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Ranbot » Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:27 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:... "I support Indie Developers (but only because I see them on Steam)" new 'customers'

Someone wanting to use an easy interface to find/buy/play their games is bad?
Soupspoon wrote:...but I can still see it doing some good towards the stated aim of donations outwith of Patreon and a renewed product-recognition vibe.

Yeah... that's the point.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Soupspoon » Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:00 am UTC

Ranbot wrote:
Soupspoon wrote:... "I support Indie Developers (but only because I see them on Steam)" new 'customers'

Someone wanting to use an easy interface to find/buy/play their games is bad?

It's not so much the "wanting" as the "limited to".

*checks what I wrote to check I remember the context*

Yeah, basically, under Steam it's likely to be a new partnership of game and (potential) player created by The Algorithm. I doubt the Google algorithm did much spontaneous introduction to the game by linking "mining simulator" or "capricious god game" searches, instead it's words-of-mouth and the cropping up of things like this thread that made DF "take 17 years to be an overnight success". And I'm sure that this has been better for the slow (but inexorable) development cycle.

I'm half worried that even with the Steam Splurge of glossy representation it'll still be too uncompromisingly 'raw' and part-formed to be considered by the Algorithm as worthy to recommend beyond the adverse feedback of the first few recommendees upon Steam release, even while I'm excited to anticipate the extended audience that might experience the joys.

Maybe no longer will I be drawn into conversation on the train*/etc and find the subject somehow drift over to me trying to describe DF (because it actually sounds like the other party might be interested) and hoping that I've intrigued them enough to look it up because they've never heard of such a thing. But will it now be more like "oh yeah, that thing" as if I've just described K-Pop to a guy in a Death Metal T-shirt (or maybe better vice-versa?) rather than an admiring "Wow, you were actually at Woodstick, maaan?" sort of vibe.

Hopes and fears. Out of my hands. Good luck to the process. I don't think I'm being too elitist/hipster about my appreciation for this still half-formed project, but I wanted to explain the hedging of my bets about people being optimistically spoonfed a game that famously refuses to keep up the spoonfeeding. I can't even claim to have joined this ride on the ground floor (it had already just become 3d before I was properlyintroduced to it, so the Boatmurdered-age people have far better claims to "before it was famous" following) so never mind about that.


And, since the prior post I made, I've read more of the (now deleted) Steam conversations that were then referenced by a OneAngryGamer** critique (and specifically the comments section to that). It's taken some of the shine off of my optimism - though haters gonna hate so I know I shouldn't be surprised, and hopefully it'll push through despite them.



* Not applicable in London.
** The clue is probably in the name.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:26 pm UTC

If it's not on OneAngryGamer.net, then... no, that's not a good clue. A singular voice angry [about/who is] gaming describes, like, 95% of nonprofessional/semi-professional Gaming Critics. Yahtzee doesn't have a lock on that. Nor does MovieBob, Jim Sterling, TotalBuiscuit (though that one's defunct now, I guess.. RIP and all), isn't there one literally named AngryVideogameNerd or something?...and countless other voices trying to make money doing what those people do, only with more dick and fart jokes or less dick and fart jokes or louder yelling and so on.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Ranbot » Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:29 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:
Ranbot wrote:
Soupspoon wrote:... "I support Indie Developers (but only because I see them on Steam)" new 'customers'

Someone wanting to use an easy interface to find/buy/play their games is bad?

It's not so much the "wanting" as the "limited to".



My days of combing the web for indie games are over. The time/effort isn't worth the reward when Steam has more indie [and everything between indie to AAA titles] that I could ever play in an easily searchable format. So, I'm "limited to" by my choice but it doesn't feel too limiting to me in all honestly...

That said, I don't have any affection or nostalgia for retro-graphic games*, which tend to dominate indie games and another reason I rarely find the search for an indie game worth the prize at the end.

*- Retro graphics is certainly part of the reason I never played DF, though I've heard plenty about it over the years. Through painful experience I've found that usually it's better for me to leave a thing I have nostalgia for alone in my rose-tinted memories, as shining a new spotlight on them tends to reveal flaws and disappointments that I'd be happier not knowing or remembering. But I digress.

Soupspoon wrote:Maybe no longer will I be drawn into conversation on the train*/etc and find the subject somehow drift over to me trying to describe DF (because it actually sounds like the other party might be interested) and hoping that I've intrigued them enough to look it up because they've never heard of such a thing. But will it now be more like "oh yeah, that thing"...

Soupspoon wrote:I actually created a Steam account to add technical advice to the DF subforums... but found that I don't qualify for posting yet because I'm not yet willing to credit Steam a minimum spend/etc.

It doesn't sound like you have much experience with Steam here. The titles available on the platform are vast, overwhelmingly vast, including many many indie titles. The game suggestion algorithms can't get through all the games on the platform. My point is I don't think you'll get that "oh yeah that thing" response just because it's on Steam. I suspect that DF being on Steam is more likely to result in the person you spoke with on the train that seemed intrigued will actually go check it out.... I might finally.

I'm not trying to fight with you... I might be wrong... just giving an alternative view.
Last edited by Ranbot on Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:06 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Soupspoon » Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:04 pm UTC

Ranbot wrote:I'm not trying to fight with you... I might be wrong... just giving an alternative view.

No worries about that, I'm just giving my perspective.

My experience with Steam originated almost as far back as its inception as the DRM handler for a DVD-installed game that just would not behave and cough up the goods.
Spoiler:
Someone I knew had a godawful time trying to install said game, I was drafted in to help and we still just couldn't it to install. He sold the game material onwards (eBay or QXL or whatever it was at that time) and the buyer had difficulty because it was (apparently) registered to 'us' already, which I knew it shouldn't be.

I thus have actively avoided Steam over the decade and more, and games (like the more recent GTAs) that tied into it. So, no, I know little about Steam or things currently exclusive to Steam.

I had, though, presumed that the platform had matured and solved such problems. Although given the initial fuss I had to create my Steam account…
Spoiler:
…switching browser tabs to the webmail I authorised my email address through then reset the original tab to pre-registration status rather than confirming the authorising - I needed two machines side-by-side, one to register and keep 'waiting' while I accessed the mail on the other machine, authorised the (latest of several) requests for confirmation and then the page idling on the first machine progressed to the next step in the process…
…I'm not so sure. Right now, I've gone no further than to use my login to the Community pages to better track where I've lurked to in the forums. And wishing I could reply to questions asked/respond to advice that isn't quite right, or worse. But I'm not allowed to do this yet, and right now not sure I shall ever jump through the necessary hoops that I will be.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Soupspoon » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:14 pm UTC

Wasn't going to say this, but have decided to, and as a second message because it's dissassociated from anything in the one just gone:

1) The Steam release will not be too much less 'retro graphics' than the non-Steam game graphics already available. It'll still be tile-based 'sprites'. Even now, if you prefer your turkey chicks to look like a collection of pixels that might just be a small, immature turkey (or a mini mature one!) rather than a collection of pixels that are in the form of a red 't', then you can get that. With the Text Will Be Text 3rd-party plug-in you even get overlaid tiles. I believe there are going to be some better depictions of slopes (ramps between levels) in the Steam version, and interesting thongs done with pumps and liquids, but it'll still essentially a top-down 'slice' view (maybe with better depth perception) rather than a full-on 3D view as you might get from the Stonesense utility right now. If you don't think you'd get on with the current Lazy Newbie Pack release then I'm not sure you'd get vastly more enjoyment out of the Steam one.

(Which is to say that I think you'll appreciate both the Steam graphics and the non-Steam ones, if you aren't as stubborn about demanding the former as I am about probably not ever personally going to pick that package up.)

2) There'll be extra sounds. What these will be I have no idea, but if you need them to enjoy the game then maybe SoundSense for the currently available version can tide you over.

3) It is somewhat unknown what UI changes will be made. I can't see any changes answering very many of the current critical comments made about it (often erroneously, IMO, but I recognise that there are divergent opinions about this whole issue) and you already have mouse-functionality in even the Vanilla install where it is most useful (freehand paintbrushing designations if you are determined not do it by keyboard; resizing the window/mouse-wheel for tile-zooming if you haven't set the size right in the Inits) and maybe you'll also get the necessarily complex right-click context menu cascades, but those will surely bring on your RSI worse than if you follow the easily learnt keyboard sequences.

4) There is currently multi-core support, in that the graphics can work off a second core while the first core is hogged by the physics(/pathing/environment/psychology/etc) engine. If this changes anytime soon, I'm the son of an elf. Not that FPS really matters (there's no such thing as lag, you go at the game's speed - or lower if in Adventure Mode because it's often waiting for your input and you'll be most of the cummulative bottleneck), but a dual core machine with the fastest core-speed you can get is what is generally recommended now (don't worry about GPU specs/Shader models/polygons-per-second at all!) and is probably similarly good advice for the Steam release. But it won't make your reasonable-but-low specification machine go obsolete overnight, either (unlike other games that assume you're keeping up with the Joneses, and that the Joneses are themselves trying to keep up with the likes of PixarLabs).

5) I heartily recommend you try-before-you-buy in this one. Much as it would be good for Tarn to perhaps get excited never-played-before Steam subscribers spending $20 (of which slightly of $10 will get to him) once the Steam release occurs, I thonk there'll be a happier set of subscribers in the end if those who might be tempted first lost their cherry on the current product, perhaps puzzle over some of the rougher edges while they are only spending time getting to know about how it works, maybe initially directly donate via the Patreon if they wish to, otherwise exploring the current state of things without worrying about whether it was a rash spend. Then when the Steam finally comes to the boil you can feed the vaporous H2O and KitFox coffers alongside your fully-fledged donation for the gloriously refined eye(/ear)-candy version, that should be now also incorporate maybe another 5% of the design-goals set out to be accomplished (pushing it over the 50% mark) over the decades-long projected development timeline, and ye shall thus receive the requisite proportion of Nirvana, in kind, for your patience and faithfulness, with the knowledge that the promise of more to come is guaranteed by no less than the trivial extrapolation of the more you already were gifted.

And if you absolutely felt disappointed in the extant version(s), already, then you became a confirmed refusenik in advance and you're less likely to drag down the reviews in a hot temper, mourning for your lost Andrew Jackson bill (albeit electronically) having decided that all these fanatical Fortresseers had been stringing you along, all along.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Magnanimous » Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:46 am UTC

The recent news reminded me that I've never donated to Dwarf Fortress, so I sent them twenty bucks. I guess buying it through Steam would increase their numbers and maybe result in more publicity, but I'd rather have 100% of the money going to Bay12.

Also it reminded me that I never finished my lighthouse project. I generated a tiny island, and so far I have a cabin for the lighthouse keeper (and currently a bunch of construction workers) and most of the tower. Next I have to build a glass chamber at the top and fill it with magma.
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