1379: "4.5 Degrees"

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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby addams » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:47 pm UTC

That's true.
DDT can be used Sparingly.

The Hippie Types that sound frightened of everything would make a good discussion for me.
It is too far off topic.
Spoiler:
These are people.
Just like the Aggressive RedNeck that fouls the air and water on purpose to Show the Hippies who is Boss.

Both groups are responding to human emotions.
Mostly Tribe Loyalty.

The Hippies seem to think, "The Tribe is all Mankind, except RedNecks and Intellectuals."
The RedNecks seem to think, "The Tribe is them and their closest friends and family."
With Hippies and Intellectuals as The Enemy.

Do you see a pattern?
As an Intellectual Sympathizer, I see the intellectuals as Victims.
The people most likely to guide us well are attacked by both sides.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

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Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
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Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby Crissa » Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:19 am UTC

addams wrote:
Spoiler:
The Hippies seem to think, "The Tribe is all Mankind, except RedNecks and Intellectuals."

Then make a thread about it. However, I don't know of any such example, and while I admit there's probably examples of everything, this doesn't seem like a thing, at all.

And I live in a county with more 'natural' foods stores than Safeways.

-Crissa

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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby addams » Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:06 am UTC

Crissa wrote:
addams wrote:
Spoiler:
The Hippies seem to think, "The Tribe is all Mankind, except RedNecks and Intellectuals."

Then make a thread about it. However, I don't know of any such example, and while I admit there's probably examples of everything, this doesn't seem like a thing, at all.

And I live in a county with more 'natural' foods stores than Safeways.

-Crissa

Define Hippie.
Is it a person that blames GMO's and immunizations for hair growing out the top of their heads and autism?
Or; Is Hippie a person with loads of disposable income that chooses to spend it on high quality food?
Or; Is a Hippie a person with a Very Strange fashion flair? What's a Hippie?
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
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Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby xtifr » Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:41 am UTC

If hippies are so darn anti-intellectual, how come I keep running into so many with advanced degrees in fields like physics, molecular biology, and computer science? :)
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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:51 am UTC

There is another way to kill malaria mosquitoes: with frikkin' lasers!
Quite a bit more expensive than DDT and I have no idea how it would work in the countries that actually need it (maybe solar panels and batteries for the night?), but a photonic fence just sounds really really cool.
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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby Crissa » Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:47 am UTC

Why would I need to define your word or find evidence for your assertion?

-Crissa

I like the idea of a mosquito laser.

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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby Weeks » Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:39 am UTC

Neil_Boekend wrote:There is another way to kill malaria mosquitoes: with frikkin' lasers!
Quite a bit more expensive than DDT and I have no idea how it would work in the countries that actually need it (maybe solar panels and batteries for the night?), but a photonic fence just sounds really really cool.
I knew I saw that in a TED talk. Here.
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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby addams » Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:50 am UTC

xtifr wrote:If hippies are so darn anti-intellectual, how come I keep running into so many with advanced degrees in fields like physics, molecular biology, and computer science? :)

Because it is a difficult to impossible group to define.
Weeks wrote:
Neil_Boekend wrote:There is another way to kill malaria mosquitoes: with frikkin' lasers!
Quite a bit more expensive than DDT and I have no idea how it would work in the countries that actually need it (maybe solar panels and batteries for the night?), but a photonic fence just sounds really really cool.
I knew I saw that in a TED talk. Here.


That is Amazing!
Solar panels store daylight to kill vectors at night.

We are in the Future.
That would have been Sci-Fi.
Now, it's reality.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
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Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby Tyndmyr » Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:02 pm UTC

schapel wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:It is, I think, a reaction against perceived ultra-hippies who oppose everything that is "unnatural". I'm afraid that such people do exist, and do indeed propose silly things...but one does not fix ridiculousness by becoming equally ridiculous in the opposite direction.

I think in the case of Republicans, they tend to do things to spite the opposing party. For example, they say they will buy an SUV and drive it all over the place just to spite Democrats who want to reduce carbon dioxide emissions. I think recently, some have been carrying guns into public places to spite those in favor of more gun control. In these cases, it's an even more severe overreaction, because reducing carbon dioxide emissions and keeping assault rifles out of the hands of the mentally unstable are not ridiculous positions to begin with.


At least in the latter, I disagree, and find your point to be phrased poorly and in an incredibly biased and ridiculous fashion. However, this is not the thread for that.

As for the SUVs, I doubt it's a significant influence. Sure, schadenfreud is a thing, but car purchases are often dominated by "man, I really want that car based on impulse" with a lot of post-hoc rationalization. So, if you realize you bought a gas guzzler, and happen to run in conservative circles, it'd be a much more socially acceptable "reason" than "I didn't think about it at all".

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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby addams » Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:31 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
schapel wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:It is, I think, a reaction against perceived ultra-hippies who oppose everything that is "unnatural". I'm afraid that such people do exist, and do indeed propose silly things...but one does not fix ridiculousness by becoming equally ridiculous in the opposite direction.

I think in the case of Republicans, they tend to do things to spite the opposing party. For example, they say they will buy an SUV and drive it all over the place just to spite Democrats who want to reduce carbon dioxide emissions. I think recently, some have been carrying guns into public places to spite those in favor of more gun control. In these cases, it's an even more severe overreaction, because reducing carbon dioxide emissions and keeping assault rifles out of the hands of the mentally unstable are not ridiculous positions to begin with.


At least in the latter, I disagree, and find your point to be phrased poorly and in an incredibly biased and ridiculous fashion. However, this is not the thread for that.

As for the SUVs, I doubt it's a significant influence. Sure, schadenfreud is a thing, but car purchases are often dominated by "man, I really want that car based on impulse" with a lot of post-hoc rationalization. So, if you realize you bought a gas guzzler, and happen to run in conservative circles, it'd be a much more socially acceptable "reason" than "I didn't think about it at all".

oh.
I think you are Wrong on both points.
I know people.

Patirotism is a powerful tool.
Loads of people will buy an Automobile based on Marketing not on Specs.

"How are you a Good American?" is the question posed by Marketers and by a person's Social Sphere.
The way that question is answered is often reflected in the kind of car a person drives.

Not always.
Some poor RedNeck must drive his Auntie's Preus with the COEXIST bumper stickers.
We are a funny bunch. We are also a Scary bunch.

I think you are Wrong about the assault rifles, too.
We have too many guns in too many hands.

The number of guns and the number of armed individuals is rising daily.
The gun classes are over booked and the ammunition is sold out.

I spoke to an attorney that refocused my vision of the US people.
For as heavily armed as we are, we do amazingly well.

Still...A population that must be armed against one another is a population that is Not living in Peace.

If a constant state of War is The Goal, we are well on our way.
If Peace is The Goal, we have been running the wrong direction.

I have seen Americans argue over our place in The World to the point of Violence.
The fiscal conservatives have placed us in a debt situation that is Radical.

Even functioning Scientists have a hard time understanding the Amount of Money the congresses of the early 2000's spent.
Conservative Bumper Stickers warn of Radical Behaviors.

Like the bright colors nature places on Poisons?
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby Brace » Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:24 pm UTC

This post had objectionable content.
Last edited by Brace on Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:43 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby schapel » Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:14 am UTC

Brace wrote:SUVs aren't meant to spite liberals. This is though:

I didn't mean that many people who buy SUVs are trying to spite liberals. But I do see some posts in conversations about global warming that a person says they will buy an SUV and drive it all over the place. That clearly is meant to spite people who want to reduce carbon dioxide emissions. I also once saw an SUV with a bumper sticker (I forget exactly what it said) that was clearly meant to infuriate the same people.

Brace wrote:Also, carrying guns isn't meant to spite liberals unless you're talking about rifles or submachinegun look-alikes in urban centers.

Again, most people who have guns are not doing for spite. There have been recent incidents of citizens walking into shops with clearly visible weapons. The problem is so bad in some places that I've started to see "NO GUNS" signs posted on the windows of many establishments. They're not carrying guns because they want to feel safe or they're hunting. They just want to piss off people who want more gun control.

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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby addams » Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:52 am UTC

Brace wrote:SUVs aren't meant to spite liberals. This is though:

Image

Also, carrying guns isn't meant to spite liberals unless you're talking about rifles or submachinegun look-alikes in urban centers.

The Rigs like the one shown in the photo are not Common.
That sort of Rig is not Uncommon in My World.

The smoke can be poured out of them on purpose.
Those are driven primarily by men under fifty.

It is sad and strange.
A Prius with its cargo of socially and fiscally responsible smug little people is passed by that Big Boy and buried in Acrid Black Smoke.

If we work together we can do a lot.
We can do a lot of Good.
We can do a lot of Bad.

Men like being the Bad Boyz.
It's a man thing.

"Undercurrents of Homosexuality," is what I tell them.
It's not really true. I tell them, anyway.

I don't have a Prius.
I have been buried in smoke, anyway.

Do you think it was something I said?
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
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Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby Tyndmyr » Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:31 pm UTC

schapel wrote:
Brace wrote:SUVs aren't meant to spite liberals. This is though:

I didn't mean that many people who buy SUVs are trying to spite liberals. But I do see some posts in conversations about global warming that a person says they will buy an SUV and drive it all over the place. That clearly is meant to spite people who want to reduce carbon dioxide emissions. I also once saw an SUV with a bumper sticker (I forget exactly what it said) that was clearly meant to infuriate the same people.


The bumper sticker or forum post is, sure. The SUV, likely not. As for Rolling Coal or w/e they call it...it's a stupid mod much like tricked out mufflers that are obnoxiously loud. Sometimes there are performance implications(I understand the practice originates from truck-pulls, a country competitive event. Similar things happen with tractors.). Spite is something people do, but not something they (usually) invest heavily into.

Brace wrote:Also, carrying guns isn't meant to spite liberals unless you're talking about rifles or submachinegun look-alikes in urban centers.

Again, most people who have guns are not doing for spite. There have been recent incidents of citizens walking into shops with clearly visible weapons. The problem is so bad in some places that I've started to see "NO GUNS" signs posted on the windows of many establishments. They're not carrying guns because they want to feel safe or they're hunting. They just want to piss off people who want more gun control.


*sigh* This is a particular gun control battle that is taking place. It is not just spite. But again...this is not the gun control thread. Probably not the best place to examine the issue.

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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby schapel » Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:21 am UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:The SUV, likely not.

I agree. I never said that most people who drive SUVs do it out of spite. But clearly some do. This behavior seems to be a peculiarity of Republicans.

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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby addams » Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:30 am UTC

schapel wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:The SUV, likely not.

I agree. I never said that most people who drive SUVs do it out of spite. But clearly some do. This behavior seems to be a peculiarity of Republicans.

Republican?
The world has become almost meaningless.

The T.E.A. Baggers.
Now; There is a Group with an Identity.

Sort of like this bunch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Hi8IWqic0U
Only not as clean and pretty.

We Are.
We Are.
Trashy.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby Tyndmyr » Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:48 am UTC

schapel wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:The SUV, likely not.

I agree. I never said that most people who drive SUVs do it out of spite. But clearly some do. This behavior seems to be a peculiarity of Republicans.


That is...not clear at all. As previously mentioned, even the quite uncommon practice of "rolling coal" did not originate for this. Internet outrage on facebook is often misguided.

Both sides are made up of people, and any person can relish in a "defeat" of the other team, logic be damned. But it would be a very extreme person indeed, on either side, who made major life decisions primarily for this reason. If you seriously think only one side is capable of acting out of spite...you might be expecting rather a lot out of political allegiances.

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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby addams » Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:52 am UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
schapel wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:The SUV, likely not.

I agree. I never said that most people who drive SUVs do it out of spite. But clearly some do. This behavior seems to be a peculiarity of Republicans.


That is...not clear at all. As previously mentioned, even the quite uncommon practice of "rolling coal" did not originate for this. Internet outrage on facebook is often misguided.

Both sides are made up of people, and any person can relish in a "defeat" of the other team, logic be damned.
But it would be a very extreme person indeed, on either side, who made major life decisions primarily for this reason
. If you seriously think only one side is capable of acting out of spite...you might be expecting rather a lot out of political allegiances.

How do the French say it?
In the contrary.

But it would be a very extreme person indeed, on either side, who made major life decisions primarily for this reason.

Major life choices?
Yep.

I disagree with you.
On Every Side, people make major life choices based on Who We Are.

"We are Reasonable People and we will Logic this through." is not the mind set of the Smoke Stack Truck Drivers.

Major Life Choices?
Really?

Like going to War to Kill or Die?
That seems Major to me.

Men and Women have been making that choice, willingly, for longer than we have had Monster Truck Rallies.
Not only is the stupid strong in these Seth Warors. So is the Mean.

Not only are many of the Drivers of the Smoke Stackes making Major Choices for themselves based on Rush Limbagh's advice and FOX News,
These men and women are making Life Choices for Others.

Sometimes they talk to me.
They tell me what they think and why they do things.

When there is a pause in the conversation, I bring up Homosexuality and the Automoble as Phalic Symbols.
There is No appealing to their sense of Fair Play.
There is No appealing to their sense of the Sacred.

My one feeble card, that I can not play well is a glancing blow at any Homoerotic Guilt they may be harboring.
I Know! It is a Dangerous Fucking Game.

Some look confused and make more smoke.
Those guys seem to be comfortable with their sexuality or so dull witted they have yet to consider sex as more or less important that taking a Piss.

Some don't look confused.
Those guys do not want to be Outed.

That makes them a little iffy.
Like any Wild Animal, Don't Run from them.

Back away.
Keep talking if they stop, until out of sight or inside your own armor.

I highly recommend 4 wheel drive and a high clearance.
I don't have those things.

If you are going to out run a monster, you might need 4 wheel drive and high clearance.

It's a kind of Arms Race.
It's an Amour Race.

An SUV is required to Run with the Big Dogs.
Sweet little old ladies drive SUV's because they think AssHoles don't mess with people in Big Rigs.

Those little old ladies have a point and SUV's are fun.
They are not heavy polluters. Not when running right.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby SFX » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:48 am UTC

CigarDoug wrote:Children graduating high school this year have never seen global warming. For all the scare-mongering I have had to listen to for the last twenty years, NOTHING that Al Gore predicted would have happened by now has happened. At what point do all rational people begin to question these hysterical predictions?
http://townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2014/02/18/5-scientific-reasons-that-global-warming-isnt-happening-n1796423/page/full#!
While they haven't experienced what global warming theory predicted, in the last twenty years certainly a lot of people have experienced changes in the climate. For example, in many places the winters have become much colder, with more snow. While at the same time summers have warmed. This doesn't match at all what was predicted, but it's still a change. And one that most people notice.
CigarDoug wrote:I'll say it again, slowly: There hasn't been any global warming since 1997. That means children graduating high school this year have never seen global warming. The trouble with hysterical predictions about the future based on pseudo-science is, eventually the future gets here and we can see that you were just making it up.
http://www.rightwingnews.com/climate-change/report-no-statistical-global-warming-in-17-years/
Yes, it's always a pain when reality eventually catches up with predictions about what will happen. If only the world would do as the models show, then the justified voices of alarm would be right at this point. We would be experiencing just goddawful global warming, and the world would be all afraid and desperate. Sadly, that didn't happen. Not that you can tell from the bloggers and those who want to tell you it's actually worse than ever.
CigarDoug wrote:Should we pursue alternative sources of energy? Absolutely.
I sometimes think if even half the energy and effort spent on demanding people do something, was spent on actually doing something, a lot of people would be using solar energy instead of crying over how awful the future is going to be. The real problem is that most everybody worried about global warming is busy demanding people stop using cheap fuel, but they don't actually offer an alternative. It's the tragedy of the commons.

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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby gmalivuk » Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:34 am UTC

SFX wrote:For example, in many places the winters have become much colder, with more snow.
Stop being so goddamn full of shit.

It has already been pointed out to you that February is not the whole winter (you yourself pointed this out when you extolled the virtues of Dec-Feb winter in the other thread), and it has also already been pointed out to you that February is the only winter month that has showed a cooling trend. The other winter (and next-to-winter) months have showed warming, as has the winter season as a whole, at least in the specific geographic area you have such a hard-on for in the "Cold" thread.
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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby SFX » Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:34 am UTC

The cool colors show where the trend is cooling, the warm colors show where the trend is warming.

For some people, the cooling trend for winters, is all they have ever known. While global warming is being hammered into their little heads, the winters got colder.

It's ironic.

As Cohen noted, the cooling trend can be seen even starting in 1988.

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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby gmalivuk » Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:42 am UTC

SFX wrote:The cool colors show where the trend is cooling, the warm colors show where the trend is warming.

For some people, the cooling trend for winters, is all they have ever known. While global warming is being hammered into their little heads, the winters got colder.

It's ironic.
No what's ironic is you're still pulling your same shit like you think I forgot about it before. You went from a 1995-2014 February-only map to a 1998-2014 full-winter map. We're all well aware that 1998 was an exceptionally warm year. If you go back to the trend starting in 1995 the cooling you're talking about suddenly gets a lot less noticeable and widespread.
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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby SFX » Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:19 am UTC

gmalivuk wrote:We're all well aware that 1998 was an exceptionally warm year. If you go back to the trend starting in 1995 the cooling you're talking about suddenly gets a lot less noticeable and widespread.
Of course, and if you start with 1986, and look at a thirty year period, it's even less. None of that changes the problem, which is winters, in large areas of the Northern hemisphere, are cooling, not warming. This is an unexpected and serious problem with the part of greenhouse theory that predicts we should see the most warming in winter, over land, in the Northern hemisphere (NH).

schapel wrote:
Izawwlgood wrote:It's suggesting that because that one North Korean stem cell researcher was doing some unscrupulous research activities, that all stem cell research is bunk.

I've always wondered about this. I never see anyone point to a physics researcher who reported fraudulent results and claim that all of physics is a sham. Why is that? I think it has to do with selective nitpicking. The thinking seems to go like this: "I have no evidence to support my claim, so I will nitpick the evidence you provide, and then I win by default!" It's just wishful thinking.
Yes it is. Picking away and ignoring evidence because you don't like it, is not science. If somebody claims winters will become milder, with less snow, and instead we see colder winters, with more snow, it's dishonest to try and nitpick the evidence, rather than admit something unexpected has happened.

Of course in some areas we are seeing mild winters, with little snow. The scientific problem is, can we attribute it to our influence or not?

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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby Izawwlgood » Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:27 pm UTC

Weren't you arguing in the other thread that we see more precipitation in America? Is your whole game at this point to just keep presenting contradictory and cherry picked information, while ignoring the explanations and refutations given, in an effort to... I dunno, show that climate models are messy? That the world hasn't melted so scientists must be wrong?

It's utterly hilarious that you're trying to stand on high ground of condemning someone else for cherry picking, given how many times you've been exposed for not just cherry picking, but out right fudging the data you present.
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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby addams » Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:44 pm UTC

excuse me...
I read this thread.

Sometime it reads like you think Weather began fairly recently.
Maybe, some of The Big Melts are behind us.

It's nice to discuss The Weather.
I can imagine a people with the only thing they have in common is The Weather.

I must expand my imagination to include people that do not share The Weather.
That's you guys. oh, (excuse me)Us guys.

We are arguing about Weather.
How Human of us.

GrandPa seldom argued about The Weather.
He had a barometer and he Used it!

Have you ever heard of the Years 1963-1964-1965.
Were you growing you hair out in Rebellion?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goAnyAcLYKo
Too long: I watched it.

It seems, sort of, the way I remember it.
The only part the Reporter got Wrong was how long it would take.
That work took Years to fix! In one year they had a workable plan.

They also got the number of fatalities Wrong.

Propaganda Film?
Remember the floods of Bangladesh?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970_Bhola_cyclone

No. I was not there.
That was a World Away.
Brought to the US via TV.

What about farther North on the US coast?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_flood_of_1964

Water can be a very destructive.
The deep snow pack was a contributing factor.

The unusually High Tides also contributed to the amount unexpected and unwanted Water The People and Animals of the NorthWest were dealing with.

I live in that area.
I love the state owned and operated Signs that mark High Water.
Those signs are fifteen to thirty feet in the air.

It's great fun to Imagine.
That's a lot of water.

Where is all that water? The snow pack is gone.
Where is all that water? Is the water in the air?

Warm air can hold more water than cold air can hold.

We need a Graph.
When will it start Raining and forget to Stop?

I like sunny days.
If we are going to die of Nice Weather....

(shrug) We could be dieing of Crap Weather....
Be grateful we don't have an impromptu Ice Age.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

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Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby schapel » Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:32 pm UTC

SFX wrote:The scientific problem is, can we attribute it to our influence or not?

Given the fact that the warming due to increased greenhouse gases was predicted nearly 100 years before it began occurring, and we don't seem to have any other explanations for the warming, our influence seems to be the best hypothesis we have so far.

If someone wants to claim that burning fossil fuels is not causing warming, they should come up with an alternative hypothesis and provide evidence to support that hypothesis. Claiming "climate change has always happened and is natural" is not an alternative hypothesis, because it cannot be falsified. The hypothesis needs to make a clear prediction of a phenomenon that can be observed, and it needs to be possible to make an observation that disagrees with the prediction. Then, and only then, do you have any alternative explanation for the warming. As far as I can see, there's only one plausible scientific explanation. Please feel free to provide another, and then was can have a meaningful discussion.

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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby SFX » Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:40 pm UTC

schapel wrote:If someone wants to claim that burning fossil fuels is not causing warming, they should come up with an alternative hypothesis ...


If someone wants to claim that Reiki is not causing healing, they should come up with an alternative hypothesis and provide evidence to support that hypothesis. Claiming "Reiki healing isn't scientific" is not an alternative hypothesis, because it cannot be falsified. The hypothesis needs to make a clear prediction of a phenomenon that can be observed, and it needs to be possible to make an observation that disagrees with the prediction. Then, and only then, do you have any alternative explanation for the healing. As far as I can see, there's only one plausible scientific explanation. Please feel free to provide another, and then was can have a meaningful discussion.

Just showing that Reiki doesn't actually result in energy changing and people getting better is meaningless. You have to come up with an alternative to explain why people get better after a Reiki master heals them. If not, you hate science and think the world is flat and also are like a Nazi.

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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby schapel » Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:51 pm UTC

SFX wrote:
schapel wrote:If someone wants to claim that burning fossil fuels is not causing warming, they should come up with an alternative hypothesis ...


If someone wants to claim that Reiki is not causing healing, they should come up with an alternative hypothesis and provide evidence to support that hypothesis.

I would say the placebo effect would be an alternative hypothesis in that case. There's plenty of scientific evidence to support that placebo effect. You could test this by giving someone fake Reiki treatment and see if it is less effective than real Reiki treatment. Science for the win! This is in fact the method used to validate medical treatments today. And in fact this method has been used to test Reiki: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12614528

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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby gmalivuk » Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:17 pm UTC

SFX wrote:You have to come up with an alternative to explain why people get better after a Reiki master heals them.
Except, they don't, so you don't.

But the planet is actually getting warmer on average. None of your cherrypicked "but it's a little bit colder in this one particular area for this one particular month!" is gonna change that.
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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby schapel » Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:35 pm UTC

If there's any doubt about whether the Earth is warming, or if the warming is slowing or accelerating, just look at the land ice measurements and sea level measurements. The Earth's surface is mostly water, and it takes tremendous amounts of energy to warm water and melt ice. Sea level rise is a combination of thermal expansion due to warming, and ice melting off the land into the oceans. If the warming had stopped or even slowed significantly, we'd see that in the graphs. But we're seeing warming exactly as predicted by the hypothesis that increase greenhouse gases cause warming.

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Re: 1379: "lots.lots Degrees"

Postby SFX » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:45 pm UTC

schapel wrote:Claiming "climate change has always happened and is natural" is not an alternative hypothesis, because it cannot be falsified. .
When there is a great flooding, rain beyond measure, and rivers rise and people wail and run in fear, and some claim it was due to the hydrogen bombs being tested upwind, and you tell them no, it wasn't the bomb testing that caused the rain. They might say "Claiming 'flooding has always happened and is a natural occurrence' is not an alternative hypothesis, because it cannot be falsified. " "You must come up with another hypothesis, or else our claim it was the bomb tests is true".

This terrible logic is a poop stain on the collective knowledge of mankind.

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Re: 1379: "lots.lots Degrees"

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:50 pm UTC

SFX, the next time I see you cherry picking data, I'm banning you from the forum.

Act shitty then report someone else acting shitty in return, I'm banning you from the forum

Argue with this, I'm banning you from the forum.

I'll be completely honest - I'm just looking for you to give me an excuse to ban you from the forum.


... moving on...

schapel, I'd like you to explain very, very carefully using simple words the reason you think
I like just taunting people who come in trying to convince others that warming isn't occurring, because it's fun. I don't care how I come across.
is in any way, shape or form appropriate behavior, given Rule #1. And given the current forum theme, I'll even let you choose which Rule #1 we're talking about here, Forum or Other. I'll simply remind you that I do fit the definition of "bald wrinkly smiling men"

Someone who argues things I believe like a shithead is still a shithead. Don't be a shithead
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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby addams » Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:17 am UTC

I'm just Chatty.
I'll try to not be a Shit Head.

The work of Humans setting off large warm bombs may have contributed to atmospheric warming.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AN8dmKgrn64

That bomb made reasonable people Run to their BlackBoards.
The best guess I read was eight of those set off all at once, might set the atmosphere on fire.
That is some Fast moving Global Warming.

Are we seeing a global effect from all the Hot bombs we were playing with?
Yes. Even I know that much heat has more effect than a Butterfly's wing.

Burning Fossil Fuels not only adds heat to the atmosphere,
but also adds clear components to the air that do that GreenHouse thing.

We are also sitting on the crust of a Core that is on Fire.
Did we, the Human Animal, break our only Spaceship?

Maybe...Maybe, it has always been set to self-destruct.

I think, it is our home and we should take care of it on The Last Day the same way we should take care of it on The First Day.
These are Not The First Days. We have Trash to clean up and vows to take to be better grubs in The Future, if we get a Future.
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Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby pdje » Sat Aug 01, 2015 10:33 pm UTC

Hi.

I have two suggestions:

First, it seems we hate trees. First we chop most of them down, and now we make laws to starve them. Then again, if we succeed in removing most of the CO2 from the atmosphere, we also remove all life from Earth. That automatically solves any problems we might have had :-)

Second, the amount of CO2 is not the only thing that determines the climate. If it was, life would have been extinct a very long time ago. We wouldn't exist.

The climate (and global temperature) is a very complex web of many contributing factors, that all interact. Feedback loops. If one increases, some others will increase as well, while different ones will be reduced. Which, in turn, will influence other things. Etc.

So, while it is great that climatology as a science has been invented, they might want to keep quiet until they have some idea what they are actually talking about.

Then again, it seems that people believe the person who shouts hardest. Advertising trumps all. That's probably why the AGW crowd likes character assassinations far more than scientific dialog and experimenting. It's religious.


Question: If you live in the US, don't believe in God, and someone asks you if you are religious, what do you answer?

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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby schapel » Sun Aug 02, 2015 6:56 pm UTC

pdje wrote:So, while it is great that climatology as a science has been invented, they might want to keep quiet until they have some idea what they are actually talking about.

They've made predictions and our observations match those predictions. They've proved to me that they know what they're talking about.

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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby Darvince » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:53 am UTC

Reading this thread 31 months after it was posted with 16 months in a row from May 2015 to August 2016 all being record warm globally, the most expensive wildfire on record hitting last year, and 2016 being the warmest winter (DJF) and fall (SON) in the Arctic is quite amusing.

It's also quite amusing that for the person that said we may only reach 1 degree Celsius of warming that we have passed that, with most measures with 1881-10 baselines or preindustrial baselines being between +1.2C and +1.3C for 2016.

It's also quite amusing that every comic that Randall makes about issues facing our world has a backlash from people with one or two posts. Yes, I also have one or two posts (I think, I haven't written a comment on here in years and I saw this on r/climate), but I have around 100 on the Arctic sea ice forum (possibly the most scientific forum I have ever encountered) and hundreds in the forum games board.
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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby Sableagle » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:57 pm UTC

pdje wrote:I have two suggestions
I have two suggestion for you. I don't even need to look at forum rules to know that I need to at least rephrase them before posting, though.

pdje wrote:... they might want to keep quiet until they have some idea what they are actually talking about.
I'll settle for "Right back at ya!" on that line and this: spend the next ten years doing 2000 hours of scientific research on the subject a year, get your work peer-reviewed and published, and then see whether you can make a better impression when you make your post count 2.
Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.

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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby SFX » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:22 pm UTC

Darvince wrote:It's also quite amusing that every comic that Randall makes about issues facing our world has a backlash from people with one or two posts.
Like so many claims, that just isn't true at all.

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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby gmalivuk » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:53 pm UTC

SFX wrote:
Darvince wrote:It's also quite amusing that every comic that Randall makes about issues facing our world has a backlash from people with one or two posts.
Like so many claims, that just isn't true at all.
Find a counterexample, if you can.
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Re: 1379: "4.5 Degrees"

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:55 pm UTC

Sableagle wrote:
pdje wrote:I have two suggestions
I have two suggestion for you.

Yelling at the current posters rarely achieves anything.

Yelling at the past, even less
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