Hifaleetin' thoughts

Things that don't belong anywhere else. (Check first).

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FierceContinent
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Re: Inspirations

Postby FierceContinent » Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:17 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:It's probably not just you, but I'm not sure what you object to here. Lack of hygiene? Who exactly are you calling retarded in your statement? People? All the other animals? I'm really not getting what you're trying to say.

I am saying that the lives of animals are very sad.
The greatest Science Hero is almost certainly Norman Borlaug. His selectively bred crops have saved many, many people from starvation.
Just to be clear, the number of lives Norman Borlaug is credited with saving is in the BILLIONS.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ScienceHero

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Deva
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Re: Inspirations

Postby Deva » Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:31 pm UTC

Might be enjoyable to them. Are zoo animals happier than wild animals? (Edit: Describes some indigenous tribes too, to a degree.)

Imagines similar arguments for humans. Resides in large boxes. Stares at light devices and wood pulp all day. Murders each other constantly. Worries about others reclaiming their possessions. How can they be happy?
Changes its form depending on the observer.

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FierceContinent
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Re: Inspirations

Postby FierceContinent » Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:08 pm UTC

Deva wrote:Might be enjoyable to them. Are zoo animals happier than wild animals? (Edit: Describes some indigenous tribes too, to a degree.)

Imagines similar arguments for humans. Resides in large boxes. Stares at light devices and wood pulp all day. Murders each other constantly. Worries about others reclaiming their possessions. How can they be happy?

Equally the typical life of an animal might just as easily not be enjoyable.
And I can appreciate that we don't really understand how say a lobster thinks but I think being cold, hungry, scared or in physical pain is pretty straightforward.

As for zoo animals i think it depends on the species. Some are bored out of their skulls. Some are happy with fish.
The greatest Science Hero is almost certainly Norman Borlaug. His selectively bred crops have saved many, many people from starvation.
Just to be clear, the number of lives Norman Borlaug is credited with saving is in the BILLIONS.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ScienceHero

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Re: Inspirations

Postby SecondTalon » Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:27 pm UTC

FierceContinent wrote:And I can appreciate that we don't really understand how say a lobster thinks but I think being cold, hungry, scared or in physical pain is pretty straightforward.

Surprisingly no. At least as per my understanding of it, while mammals are pretty good on those, insects? There's some good arguments that they do not - from lacking the same pain receptors we do (weak as the entire nervous system is different, so they may have another method) to behaving normal with crushed and broken parts (strong) and not reacting to being devoured alive (strong).

Current theory on Reptiles is that they do feel pain, but react oddly. Stories about things like heating rocks burning them or fed pythons letting rats eat through their bodies exist, and there's arguments on whether or not the pain receptors are primitive or if there's some learned responses or if the heat sensing bits override the pain ones... But they know pain causes distress as a reptile chilled and kept cold for surgery recovers more poorly than one kept warm throughout the process and sedated with chemical anesthesia.

So... No, it's not straightforward. It's barely straightforward in mammals (see:injuries in herd species versus predator species versus humans. Humans flip their goddamn minds over things the other two essentially sleep off, and plenty of mammals are good at hiding their distress - cats compared to dogs, for example. Dogs show pain well before cats, who often purr in response. A sound we associate with a happy can can just as easily mean a cat in pain)
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FierceContinent
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Re: Inspirations

Postby FierceContinent » Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:30 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Surprisingly no. At least as per my understanding of it, while mammals are pretty good on those, insects? There's some good arguments that they do not - from lacking the same pain receptors we do (weak as the entire nervous system is different, so they may have another method) to behaving normal with crushed and broken parts (strong) and not reacting to being devoured alive (strong).

Current theory on Reptiles is that they do feel pain, but react oddly. Stories about things like heating rocks burning them or fed pythons letting rats eat through their bodies exist, and there's arguments on whether or not the pain receptors are primitive or if there's some learned responses or if the heat sensing bits override the pain ones... But they know pain causes distress as a reptile chilled and kept cold for surgery recovers more poorly than one kept warm throughout the process and sedated with chemical anesthesia.

So... No, it's not straightforward. It's barely straightforward in mammals (see:injuries in herd species versus predator species versus humans. Humans flip their goddamn minds over things the other two essentially sleep off, and plenty of mammals are good at hiding their distress - cats compared to dogs, for example. Dogs show pain well before cats, who often purr in response. A sound we associate with a happy can can just as easily mean a cat in pain)

Ok.
That shows that some animals sometimes react to pain differently. But to get back to my original point, it doesn't mean animals don't suffer a lot. To show that wild animals don't suffer a lot you'd need evidence they suffer pain/hunger/etc less than humans. Quite a lot less than humans.
The greatest Science Hero is almost certainly Norman Borlaug. His selectively bred crops have saved many, many people from starvation.
Just to be clear, the number of lives Norman Borlaug is credited with saving is in the BILLIONS.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ScienceHero

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Re: Inspirations

Postby SecondTalon » Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:47 pm UTC

That really depends on how you define suffering, now doesn't it?

But to your raw point, that nature is brutal - yes. Life is brutal. Life, any life, is just a string of brutal act after brutal act and, if you're lucky, some respite in between the acts of brutality.

This is also something most teenagers figure out in their dark and edgy phase. Some people never quite leave this phase and join metal bands and make wonderful music. or not, but still join metal bands and make wonderful music. Either or.

Yes, life is negative when you focus only on the negatives. Yes, life is wonderful when you focus only on the positives. Yes, it's a wash when you start comparing the two.

You might also want to revisit your language. Nonsapient fits better in your "little naked ______ people" than your chosen word.
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Re: Inspirations

Postby speising » Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:10 pm UTC

The thing is, it's a modern, decadent, human notion that life is supposed to have any meaning or value beyond survival and procreation.
Animals don't really suffer like we would in their place because they lack the imagination to expect anything better.

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Re: Inspirations

Postby FierceContinent » Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:12 pm UTC

I apologise. I used that description to try and present animals from a different perpective. I probably should have thought a bit more and used a less offensive word.

The thing is, it's a modern, decadent, human notion that life is supposed to have any meaning or value beyond survival and procreation.
Animals don't really suffer like we would in their place because they lack the imagination to expect anything better.

They don't suffer from greed or moral outrage but they still suffer from physical pain and hunger.
The greatest Science Hero is almost certainly Norman Borlaug. His selectively bred crops have saved many, many people from starvation.
Just to be clear, the number of lives Norman Borlaug is credited with saving is in the BILLIONS.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ScienceHero

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Re: Inspirations

Postby addams » Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:16 pm UTC

FierceContinent wrote:They don't suffer from greed or moral outrage but they still suffer from physical pain and hunger.

I think I have known dogs to be greedy.
And; To have moral outrage, too.

Us and dogs and maybe a few other primates.

(shrug) I don't know the answer.
I forgot why you asked the question.
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Re: Inspirations

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:25 am UTC

The question, paraphrased, was "Does anyone else think wild animals live a life of suffering?"

My answer is - depends on your definition of suffering.
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Re: Inspirations

Postby addams » Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:54 am UTC

My answer is - Just like people, some do and some don't.

Spoiler:
Don't ever cause unnecessary suffering for anyone;
Not even a plant.

Ease suffering if you can;
Whenever, wherever you find it.

oh...Did Deva or Weeks ask about Zoo Animals?
That used to be a tricky one.

Today, animals in good modern zoos have lives that are
charmed when compared to their wild counterparts.

Zoo animals have nationalized health care.
They even have mental and dental.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: Inspirations

Postby Jplus » Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:55 am UTC

Insects may be smarter than you think (15 minute TED talk on YouTube)

Plants can perceive things (Wikipedia lemma)

My personal belief is that any creature that (thoroughly) attempts to maintain itself and that has means to perceive things, i.e. any living being, can feel pain and possibly also fear. Of course the experience need not be the same for all species. I imagine that for a species with a slow internal communication system, like a plant, the experience is much less focused (diffuse if you want) and perhaps less intense as well. Still, it's there, because it has a function in the survival of the plant.

Now, a different question is whether other species have a conscious experience of feeling pain. Currently it is so poorly understood where phenomenal consciousness comes from, that I think it is impossible to tell. However, it would seem very naieve to me to assume that only humans have phenomenal consciousness, or even that only "smart" mammals have it. A relatively straightforward reason why it may be advantageous to "dumber" species as well is, that it may help a creature to adjust its current behaviour to an experience when there is no direct (neural) shortcut between the percept and the behaviour.

A third question, is whether pain must be experienced consciously in order for suffering to be possible.
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Re: Inspirations

Postby FierceContinent » Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:06 am UTC

Interesting
The greatest Science Hero is almost certainly Norman Borlaug. His selectively bred crops have saved many, many people from starvation.
Just to be clear, the number of lives Norman Borlaug is credited with saving is in the BILLIONS.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ScienceHero

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Re: Inspirations

Postby eran_rathan » Mon Aug 24, 2015 1:08 pm UTC

my friend Catherine has a well-developed sense of moral outrage.

Yesterday morning I fed her about half of what I normally do. She promptly went outside (after eating) and brought home a still alive chipmunk, let it loose in the house, then killed it in the basement. After killing it, she brought it to me, eviscerated, and promptly vomited the internal organs on my feet.
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Re: Inspirations

Postby Carlington » Mon Aug 24, 2015 1:20 pm UTC

"You did a shit job of gathering food today, you big clumsy weird cat. Did you forget how? Here, let me show you...again."
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Re: Inspirations

Postby PolakoVoador » Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:33 pm UTC

Quercus wrote:
PolakoVoador wrote:
Link wrote:Holy shit, I dropped my 0.5 mm drill bit; it took about half an hour to find it again. I swear that damn thing becomes wavelike when you're not looking at it!


This reminded me of the time we dropped a bunch of tiny SMT resistors on the lab's floor. Fun times.


Were you running low or something? Those things usually cost less than a cent each, unless you dropped over 1000 it doesn't seem worth your while to pick them up rather than hoovering/sweeping them and throwing them away.


Nah, we didn't usually work with those kind of resistors, it was a one off kind of thing. And buying any equipment for the university was a bureaucracy hell. We gathered enough to get the job done with some spares and them just kept randomly finding them for a while.

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Re: Inspirations

Postby Quercus » Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:41 pm UTC

PolakoVoador wrote:Nah, we didn't usually work with those kind of resistors, it was a one off kind of thing. And buying any equipment for the university was a bureaucracy hell. We gathered enough to get the job done with some spares and them just kept randomly finding them for a while.

Ah, okay, got it. Can totally relate to the bereaucracy hell that is university purchasing. I have actually bought some (cheap) stuff out of my own pocket before, because it was pretty much impossible to acquire it through our purchasing system (it was available at only one supplier, and that supplier wasn't compatible with the university system).

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Re: Inspirations

Postby ObsessoMom » Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:55 pm UTC

eran_rathan wrote:my friend Catherine has a well-developed sense of moral outrage.

Yesterday morning I fed her about half of what I normally do. She promptly went outside (after eating) and brought home a still alive chipmunk, let it loose in the house, then killed it in the basement. After killing it, she brought it to me, eviscerated, and promptly vomited the internal organs on my feet.


A few days ago, I bought a box of these. (Maybe she actually thought she needed to get back on your good side, and was expressing appreciation.)

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Re: Inspirations

Postby Angua » Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:35 pm UTC

I'm loving all the memes and cartoons being shared on facebook about Danny (or rather, lack thereof). It's not often that up to date Caribbean memes get shared a lot, and these are all pretty funny.

Sadly, they seem to be hard to google. My favourite was a skeleton in a desert with the caption 'what happened while waiting for danny'.

Image

Hopefully Erika will live up to expectations.
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Re: Inspirations

Postby Fractal_Tangent » Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:10 pm UTC

I handed in my notice at my job today. My boss wasn't in but I had dated it today. I was told to give one week's notice and I do specifically want Wednesday of next week off. I wrote in my notice-giving letter when I expect my last shift to be (This upcoming Saturday) but I'm not sure if my one week's notice counts because my boss wasn't there.

I did leave the letter on her desk. I kind of screwed up in asking for the days that I need off (Tuesday and Wednesday) because I thought that my master's hand in was Monday and Tuesday (electronic and printed copies respectively). However, Monday is a bank holiday and my university won't be open. I don't know what to do if my boss wants me to work on Wednesday. Eurgh, I messed this one up kind of badly.
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Re: Inspirations

Postby cemper93 » Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:26 pm UTC

That should definitely count -- I mean, your boss shouldn't be able to evade you so you couldn't go. Besides, it's an old trick to write a two week's notice, date it two weeks back, add a coffee stain for effect and drop it into the niche between your boss's desk and the wall. :D

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Re: Inspirations

Postby Fractal_Tangent » Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:32 pm UTC

I got her and the other staff a thank-you card to go along with my more formal letter. I did enjoy my time there but it's definitely up. If anything goes terribly, my plan is never turn up on Wednesday and spend the rest of my life hiding from the place (I am moving away which should make it easier to hide).
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Re: Inspirations

Postby Quercus » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:33 pm UTC

Patrick Rothfuss just posted an interview with Terry Pratchett he read in 1995. It's beautiful, it really is - if you like fantasy literature you should go read it. You should also go read it if you don't like fantasy literature, it might make you think:

http://blog.patrickrothfuss.com/2015/08 ... pratchett/

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Re: Inspirations

Postby Magnanimous » Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:06 am UTC

Quercus wrote:Patrick Rothfuss just posted an interview with Terry Pratchett he read in 1995. It's beautiful, it really is - if you like fantasy literature you should go read it. You should also go read it if you don't like fantasy literature, it might make you think:

http://blog.patrickrothfuss.com/2015/08 ... pratchett/

This actually is an inspiration; well done.

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Re: Inspirations

Postby Angua » Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:09 am UTC

Angua wrote:[/img]

Hopefully Erika will live up to expectations.

BTW, Erika did not cause much trouble in SKN, but has absolutely devastated Dominica :(

Also, apparently CCN thinks Dominica and the Dominican Republic are the same place.
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Re: Inspirations

Postby FierceContinent » Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:42 pm UTC

Angua wrote:
Angua wrote:[/img]

Hopefully Erika will live up to expectations.

BTW, Erika did not cause much trouble in SKN, but has absolutely devastated Dominica :(

Also, apparently CCN thinks Dominica and the Dominican Republic are the same place.


Americans...
Everything east of Maine is dreamtime.
The greatest Science Hero is almost certainly Norman Borlaug. His selectively bred crops have saved many, many people from starvation.
Just to be clear, the number of lives Norman Borlaug is credited with saving is in the BILLIONS.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ScienceHero

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Re: Inspirations

Postby firechicago » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:15 pm UTC

FierceContinent wrote:
Americans...
Everything east of Maine is dreamtime.

Um, the Dominican Republic is actually directly south of Maine.

Also, since Angua is from the Caribbean, I'm assuming that CCN means Caribbean Communications Network, which is a media conglomerate based in Trinidad and Tobago, rather than being a typo for CNN.

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Re: Inspirations

Postby FierceContinent » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:50 pm UTC

Oh. my bad.
The greatest Science Hero is almost certainly Norman Borlaug. His selectively bred crops have saved many, many people from starvation.
Just to be clear, the number of lives Norman Borlaug is credited with saving is in the BILLIONS.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ScienceHero

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Re: Inspirations

Postby Angua » Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:12 pm UTC

Actually, no it was a typo for CNN. We tend to use American news channels for most of our news, actually.
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Re: Inspirations

Postby Sombrero Cat » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:11 pm UTC

What you crazy biotchs squawking about now?

I know people who are covered in dirt and happy as can be, smiling from ear to ear every day. I also know people who are rich as hell and miserable as the devils asshole after a free buffet at taco Tuesday. Shit, popping pills like skittles. I recommend taking the pill that makes you smaller.

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Re: Inspirations

Postby Giant Speck » Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:08 pm UTC

I've started an alternating pattern of running and cycling during my commute. On Friday afternoon, I ran to work. Yesterday morning, I rode my bike home. Yesterday evening, I rode my bike to work. This morning, I ran home. This evening, I will run to work. Tomorrow morning, I will ride my bike home. And so on so forth.

The commute is approximately 5.5 miles if I run and 5.0 miles if I ride my bike. When I ride my bike, I ride the entire way. When I run, I alternate running and walking (usually around 0.35 to 0.45 miles of walking to 0.55 to 0.65 miles of running).

It's difficult and my legs are so sore when I'm at work, but it's already starting to pay off. I ran home today in just under an hour -- fifty eight minutes to be precise. Last week, it took me an hour and twenty minutes.

I want to lose weight not only to get out of this horrible cycle of failing my semi-annual fitness assessments, but also because I have a year and a half left here and I'd like to be able to go to a beach shirtless at least once before I go and not feel self conscious.

So, yay! Go me!
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Re: Inspirations

Postby poxic » Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:13 pm UTC

Inspirations, indeed!
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Re: Inspirations

Postby Jplus » Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:32 am UTC

Giant Speck wrote:I want to lose weight not only to get out of this horrible cycle of failing my semi-annual fitness assessments, but also because I have a year and a half left here and I'd like to be able to go to a beach shirtless at least once before I go and not feel self conscious.

It's probably because I'm not a native speaker, but I'm not sure I fully understand this bit. Do you mean you want to go to a beach shirtless at least once before you get dementia??

Anyway, go you!
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Re: Inspirations

Postby Ubik » Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:35 am UTC

One definition for self-conscious is "Uncomfortably over-conscious of one's appearance or behaviour."

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Re: Inspirations

Postby poxic » Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:47 pm UTC

Jplus wrote:
Giant Speck wrote:I want to lose weight not only to get out of this horrible cycle of failing my semi-annual fitness assessments, but also because I have a year and a half left here and I'd like to be able to go to a beach shirtless at least once before I go and not feel self conscious.

It's probably because I'm not a native speaker, but I'm not sure I fully understand this bit. Do you mean you want to go to a beach shirtless at least once before you get dementia??

Anyway, go you!

Paraphrased: "...but also because I have a year and a half left [living in this place with nice beaches] and I'd like to be able to go to a beach shirtless at least once before I [leave this nice place] and not [feel terrible about myself while I'm on the beach]."

Roughly, anyway.
A man who is 'ill-adjusted' to the world is always on the verge of finding himself. One who is adjusted to the world never finds himself, but gets to be a cabinet minister.
- Hermann Hesse, novelist, poet, Nobel laureate (2 Jul 1877-1962)

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Giant Speck
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Re: Inspirations

Postby Giant Speck » Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:02 am UTC

poxic wrote:
Jplus wrote:
Giant Speck wrote:I want to lose weight not only to get out of this horrible cycle of failing my semi-annual fitness assessments, but also because I have a year and a half left here and I'd like to be able to go to a beach shirtless at least once before I go and not feel self conscious.

It's probably because I'm not a native speaker, but I'm not sure I fully understand this bit. Do you mean you want to go to a beach shirtless at least once before you get dementia??

Anyway, go you!

Paraphrased: "...but also because I have a year and a half left [living in this place with nice beaches] and I'd like to be able to go to a beach shirtless at least once before I [leave this nice place] and not [feel terrible about myself while I'm on the beach]."

Roughly, anyway.


Yes.
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Re: Inspirations

Postby Giant Speck » Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:02 am UTC

I am terrible at communication. I apologize.
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Jplus
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Re: Inspirations

Postby Jplus » Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:23 am UTC

No harm was done! I was just a bit confused. :)

Thanks for the clarifications, poxic and Ubik.
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Angua
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Re: Inspirations

Postby Angua » Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:55 am UTC

Me: great, now we had the tv shelfs for hte monitor we can put the printer there as well as they're pretty sturdy.

bf: NO. We're creating a focal point of the room and you want to put a bloody printer there. 'hey look everyone, there's our printer' Printers go in back rooms. We can put it on the floor in our bedroom.

I think we know which one of the two of us is made for interior design.
Crabtree's bludgeon: “no set of mutually inconsistent observations can exist for which some human intellect cannot conceive a coherent explanation, however complicated”
GNU Terry Pratchett

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Yakk
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Re: Inspirations

Postby Yakk » Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:20 pm UTC

Jplus wrote:
Giant Speck wrote:I want to lose weight not only to get out of this horrible cycle of failing my semi-annual fitness assessments, but also because I have a year and a half left here and I'd like to be able to go to a beach shirtless at least once before I go and not feel self conscious.

It's probably because I'm not a native speaker, but I'm not sure I fully understand this bit. Do you mean you want to go to a beach shirtless at least once before you get dementia??

Anyway, go you!

I am curious where you got the dementia from.
One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision - BR

Last edited by JHVH on Fri Oct 23, 4004 BCE 6:17 pm, edited 6 times in total.


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