1616: "Lunch"

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1616: "Lunch"

Postby elliptic » Mon Dec 14, 2015 1:45 pm UTC

Image

Title text: "I'm trying to be healthier, so after I eat this brick of cheese, I'll have a spoonful of grease-soaked vegetables."

Sounds better with a glass of water, a handful of barley and a thimble of raw alcohol, though.

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby Echo244 » Mon Dec 14, 2015 1:57 pm UTC

...how are the raw ingredients meant to be gross? Or is it just when accumulated into one lump that makes you realise the quantity of cheese you're eating?

Good fresh bread, some fresh tomato sauce and a block of reasonably nice cheese, plus a small pile of salt, sound like something that might be quite nice as a sort of rustic lunch. Dip the bread in the sauce, alternate with some of the cheese, sounds quite pleasant.

Also, from memory, not far from the ration of a Roman soldier - bread, half a pound of meat or cheese, some sort of available vegetables/whatever, and a salary...
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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby puppysized » Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:16 pm UTC

Maybe the point is that you eat all the bread, and then all the sauce, and then all the cheese, and top it off with some salt.
Personally it sounds okay to me. Bread is good. Tomato sauce is eh but just pretend it's tomato soup. And cheese is yum :D
Although just eating salt sounds nauseating.

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby DanAxtell » Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:21 pm UTC

I have felt similarly when offered a Rice Krispies treat: "No thanks, I prefer to eat my buttered marshmallows separately from the serving of refined rice."

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby richP » Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:26 pm UTC

Missing lots of good toppings:
* Reproductive organs of fungi
* pig parts cut up and stuffed into pig intestines (a strange form of forced cannibalism if you think about it).
* BHT (for freshness)

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby Kit. » Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:31 pm UTC

Echo244 wrote:...how are the raw ingredients meant to be gross?

If they are Italian-made, they might be fine....

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby cellocgw » Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:33 pm UTC

You think that's gross,

Just try eating sausage if you list the ingredients in excruciating detail.

Or taking a slice of bread and spreading bee vomit on it.

Heck, for that matter, bread only rises due to certain byproducts of yeast growth.
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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby Zylon » Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:33 pm UTC

I get what Randall's going for here, but bread, cheese, and a glass of tomato juice actually sounds like a decent lunch. So fail. Should have done cake instead.

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby Soliloquy » Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:41 pm UTC

If you break down a car into its raw parts, it seems absurd to drive them to work!

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby DemonSlayer » Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:46 pm UTC

That's for an entire pizza, not a slice or two.

Who eats an entire large 14" pizza for lunch?!? That's gross all by itself.

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby jc » Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:48 pm UTC

Echo244 wrote:...how are the raw ingredients meant to be gross? ... Good fresh bread, some fresh tomato sauce and a block of reasonably nice cheese, plus a small pile of salt, sound like something that might be quite nice as a sort of rustic lunch. Dip the bread in the sauce, alternate with some of the cheese, sounds quite pleasant.


Or the variant I like to lunch on: A box of some form of crackers, a chunk of cheese, some meat (perhaps a pre-cooked sausage or some sliced deli meat), a few sliceable vegetables (tomato, cucumber, jicama, etc), some tasty leaves like basil or scallions or parsley. Pile small slices of things on top of a cracker, stick it into your mouth and chew it up, followed by a sip of something fermented.

But it might not pass for "rustic". My wife calls my little piles of stuff on crackers "elegant". Well, I suppose one could be elegant and rustic at the same time. But it's fun to think of insulting ways to describe it all. Cheese? That's spoiled milk, right? Wine? Just spoiled fruit juices. And sausage? Every culture has the same origin myth for that: There was some old meat that was going bad, and someone tried chopping it up with a bunch of spices to hide the off flavor. It turned out to be quite tasty, so now we make it that way on purpose.

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:51 pm UTC

DemonSlayer wrote:That's for an entire pizza, not a slice or two.

Who eats an entire large 14" pizza for lunch?!? That's gross all by itself.

I would. Easily. I just don't generally have pizza for lunch (I'm more of a "half a loaf of bread" kinda luncher).
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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby rmsgrey » Mon Dec 14, 2015 4:06 pm UTC

Neil_Boekend wrote:
DemonSlayer wrote:That's for an entire pizza, not a slice or two.

Who eats an entire large 14" pizza for lunch?!? That's gross all by itself.

I would. Easily. I just don't generally have pizza for lunch (I'm more of a "half a loaf of bread" kinda luncher).


I used to be able to routinely manage a 14" pizza in one sitting and come back for seconds, but nowadays I have to be unusually hungry just to finish one, let alone be in the mood to eat anything more.

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby orthogon » Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:56 pm UTC

jc wrote:
Echo244 wrote:...how are the raw ingredients meant to be gross? ... Good fresh bread, some fresh tomato sauce and a block of reasonably nice cheese, plus a small pile of salt, sound like something that might be quite nice as a sort of rustic lunch. Dip the bread in the sauce, alternate with some of the cheese, sounds quite pleasant.


Or the variant I like to lunch on: A box of some form of crackers, a chunk of cheese, some meat (perhaps a pre-cooked sausage or some sliced deli meat), a few sliceable vegetables (tomato, cucumber, jicama, etc), some tasty leaves like basil or scallions or parsley. Pile small slices of things on top of a cracker, stick it into your mouth and chew it up, followed by a sip of something fermented.

But it might not pass for "rustic". My wife calls my little piles of stuff on crackers "elegant". Well, I suppose one could be elegant and rustic at the same time. But it's fun to think of insulting ways to describe it all. Cheese? That's spoiled milk, right? Wine? Just spoiled fruit juices. And sausage? Every culture has the same origin myth for that: There was some old meat that was going bad, and someone tried chopping it up with a bunch of spices to hide the off flavor. It turned out to be quite tasty, so now we make it that way on purpose.

Echo244 may be thinking of a Ploughman's Lunch, although technically that should have chutney rather than tomato sauce.

As someone who feels that our (British) cuisine is unfairly maligned, I like to point out whenever possible that pizza is basically cheese on toast.
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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby Zylon » Mon Dec 14, 2015 6:06 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:As someone who feels that our (British) cuisine is unfairly maligned, I like to point out whenever possible that pizza is basically cheese on toast.

Uh, by equating toast with pizza crust you're actually reinforcing the stereotype of the dull British palate and its penchant for "__________ on toast". Bit of a backfire there.

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby Justin Lardinois » Mon Dec 14, 2015 6:11 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:As someone who feels that our (British) cuisine is unfairly maligned, I like to point out whenever possible that pizza is basically cheese on toast.


I hate to be that guy, but I love that old joke about how there are three types of British food: bland, disgusting, and bland and disgusting. I don't know of a British dish that has more flavor than say, fish and chips; is there one?

inb4 kebabs or curry. Those aren't British food; they're the food of other countries that just happen to have large immigrant populations in Britain. Though I don't doubt the British varieties are the best you can get in the western world.

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby da Doctah » Mon Dec 14, 2015 6:38 pm UTC

Justin Lardinois wrote: I don't know of a British dish that has more flavor than say, fish and chips; is there one?


Bloody Marmite, not that that's a good thing.

Actually, I've considered the question of "awful British cooking" and decided that the real problem is the tendency to pick the most unappetizing names for everything. "Spotted dick", "bangers and mash", "spag bol" (which actually sounds like someone throwing up), "mushy peas". The foods themselves are often delightful.

The "bland" epithet I reserve for the British preference for milk chocolate. Chocolate should be drunk hot, unsweetened, and with lashings of chili, the way the Aztecs taught us.

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby gmalivuk » Mon Dec 14, 2015 6:46 pm UTC

Zylon wrote:and a glass of tomato juice
Who said anything about juice?
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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby Kit. » Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:09 pm UTC

Justin Lardinois wrote:I don't know of a British dish that has more flavor than say, fish and chips; is there one?

Full breakfast?

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby yan » Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:18 pm UTC

Before reading this coming, I wasn't aware that a pizza is made from a loaf of bread. Do you mush it into a dough and bake it a second time, or you just hammer it into the right shape?

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby Copper Bezel » Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:21 pm UTC

Oh, it's just vacuum molded into the flatbread die.
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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby keithl » Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:31 pm UTC

Randall is talking about the nutritional equivalent, not palatability - except that most commercial pizza adds sugar. Right now, I'm eating to survive, correcting years of nutritional abuse which had serious medical consequences, so I think of pizza as tomato pastry, no more healthy than a jelly donut.
Fortunately, many pizza restaurants also have salad bars, so I can still hang out with friends. My BMI just dropped below 25, and my target is 23.
And no, I can't find a nutrition label on my "do not eat" dessicant gel packs. What a funny way to write "donut". Must be the Australian spelling.

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby Echo244 » Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:33 pm UTC

Kit. wrote:
Justin Lardinois wrote:I don't know of a British dish that has more flavor than say, fish and chips; is there one?

Full breakfast?


Roast meats and traditional accompaniments. Numerous pies and pasties. Cheeses, beers and ciders. Bramley apples and anything made from them. Probably lots more things.
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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby grkvlt » Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:50 pm UTC

Echo244 wrote:...how are the raw ingredients meant to be gross? [...]
Good fresh bread, some fresh tomato sauce and a block of reasonably nice cheese, [...], sounds quite pleasant.


Note the bolded words. For it to sound pleasant you have to make those extra stipulations. Ordinary bread, tomato sauce and cheese? Maybe not so much?
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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:22 pm UTC

Echo244 wrote:...how are the raw ingredients meant to be gross? Or is it just when accumulated into one lump that makes you realise the quantity of cheese you're eating?


I dunno. I'd eat a brick of cheese. I certainly have on a few occasions.

I don't really drink tomato sauce, but I have no objection to eating a pound of tomatoes at once. Either cherry tomatoes, or by eating big ones as if they were apples. The only thing that's at all odd is eating a pile of salt, but adding the salt to say, the bread, wouldn't be strange in the slightest. Which...seems to be the case, really. It's almost double counting to count the bread and salt seperate, isn't it?

Just like counting the cheese seperate but also describing the vegetables as greasy. That would come from the cheese. Eating vegetables and cheese isn't odd at all.

As others have said, it's a lot worse with any number of other food items.

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby Zylon » Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:46 pm UTC

Kit. wrote:
Justin Lardinois wrote:I don't know of a British dish that has more flavor than say, fish and chips; is there one?

Full breakfast?

Munchy box. Together with full breakfast, the alpha and omega of British cuisine.

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby Cervisiae Amatorem » Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:57 pm UTC

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:38 pm UTC

Basically the entire point of cooking is that the ingredients are far less appetizing than the final dish.
Zylon wrote:
orthogon wrote:As someone who feels that our (British) cuisine is unfairly maligned, I like to point out whenever possible that pizza is basically cheese on toast.

Uh, by equating toast with pizza crust you're actually reinforcing the stereotype of the dull British palate and its penchant for "__________ on toast". Bit of a backfire there.
That really just makes it sound like you don't know what pizza is supposed to be.

I'd say you'd get more mileage from "You're not doing it right" types of arguments.
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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby Tova » Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:07 am UTC

grkvlt wrote:
Echo244 wrote:...how are the raw ingredients meant to be gross? [...]
Good fresh bread, some fresh tomato sauce and a block of reasonably nice cheese, [...], sounds quite pleasant.


Note the bolded words. For it to sound pleasant you have to make those extra stipulations. Ordinary bread, tomato sauce and cheese? Maybe not so much?


I wouldn't want those ingredients assembled into pizza either, that would be pretty terrible.

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby jc » Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:35 am UTC

Kit. wrote:
Echo244 wrote:...how are the raw ingredients meant to be gross?

If they are Italian-made, they might be fine....


Well, maybe, but my main response is that if you eat just cheese+tomato pizzas, even made with good ingredients they rapidly get downright boring. The thing about pizza is that that's just a foundation. You can chop up just about anything else (that's edible) and toss it in, to get a concoction that tastes different every time.

One of my favorite examples was some years back, when some friends were heading off to live in Israel for a few years. A bunch of us took them out to a place where we could get shrimp+bacon pizzas. We figured that it was something that they'd look back on fondly, because they probably wouldn't be able to get such a pizza in Israel. Eventually we heard from them that it was indeed a memorable meal, very good and totally unavailable in their new home.

The wild variability of pizza ingredients is one of the major things that has made it such a success in the US. The basic cheese+tomato (often with basil) can be very good, of course, but it's best if eaten only occasionally, so that you don't get bored with it.

And, of course, you can vary the cheese, use raw tomatoes rather than sauce, etc. I once had a pizza with blue cheese sprinkled over sliced green tomatoes (plus jalapeño peppers and Thai basil). Very unusual, and also very good. Can you get that in Italy? (Probably some guy in an Italian pizza shop will read this, add it as a daily special, and post about it here tomorrow ...)

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby gmalivuk » Tue Dec 15, 2015 2:48 am UTC

jc wrote:The wild variability of pizza ingredients is one of the major things that has made it such a success in the US.
Sort of, but the variability is also very much a result of pizza coming to the US. Italians tend to have a much more limited range of things that count as "pizza", and even some of that variability comes from the Italian-American version going back to Italy in the mid-20th century.

(And even here the range of what is culturally accepted as "pizza" is more limited than in, say, Brazilian cuisine.)
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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby Eshru » Tue Dec 15, 2015 4:27 am UTC

Favorite pizza toppings? Let's descend into that brand of madness, shall we?

Pepperoni (or bacon), jalepeños and pineapple.

Salty, spicy and sweet. The bread/sauce/cheese covers umami well.

I'm down to 3/4 of a large pizza these days.

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby scarletmanuka » Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:25 am UTC

jc wrote:my main response is that if you eat just cheese+tomato pizzas, even made with good ingredients they rapidly get downright boring.

Tell that to my son, who refuses to eat any other sort - and by "tomato" is only meant "tomato sauce", no actual pieces of tomato are allowed. He won't even stand for any visible herbs (basil, oregano, whatever). We have pizza one night a week and he always has that, usually 6 slices or so.

Meanwhile his younger sister mainly insists on having a Hawaiian pizza with no sauce. Occasionally she'll have one slice of something else (from a very small list of acceptable choices). It doesn't leave much scope for the rest of us who are actually willing to eat more than one thing :) (I buy three pizzas for the family, so we do get some variety.)

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby CharlieP » Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:00 am UTC

gmalivuk wrote:Italians tend to have a much more limited range of things that count as "pizza"


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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby CharlieP » Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:05 am UTC

scarletmanuka wrote:
jc wrote:my main response is that if you eat just cheese+tomato pizzas, even made with good ingredients they rapidly get downright boring.

Tell that to my son, who refuses to eat any other sort - and by "tomato" is only meant "tomato sauce", no actual pieces of tomato are allowed.


Perfectly reasonable behaviour. Tomato sauce/soup/ketchup/juice/passata/puree are all tasty, but tomatoes are disgusting.
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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby keithl » Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:21 am UTC

Eshru wrote:Favorite pizza toppings? Let's descend into that brand of madness, shall we?

My favorite pizza topping event occured in the dorm at Berkeley circa 1974. Sunday night, my floormates would get stoned and watch Monty Python's Flying Circus on TV. And get the munchies, and eat anything in sight. Before one such evening, I bought a bag of chocolate chips at a grocery store, and brought it to Kips, the pizza place near the dorm, where I paid them (in advance) to make a tomato, onion, and chocolate chip pizza. Culinary experiment - would the stoners actually eat anything?

The stoners devoured it, and headed for Kips craving more. Alas, the logistics were complicated and the grocery store was closed. Nonetheless, I successfully proved my hypothesis, leading to my conclusion that pizzas are indeed pastry.

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby orthogon » Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:48 am UTC

Quizatzhaderac wrote:Basically the entire point of cooking is that the ingredients are far less appetizing than the final dish.
Zylon wrote:
orthogon wrote:As someone who feels that our (British) cuisine is unfairly maligned, I like to point out whenever possible that pizza is basically cheese on toast.

Uh, by equating toast with pizza crust you're actually reinforcing the stereotype of the dull British palate and its penchant for "__________ on toast". Bit of a backfire there.
That really just makes it sound like you don't know what pizza is supposed to be.

I'd say you'd get more mileage from "You're not doing it right" types of arguments.

The thing is, we are a melting pot of a country, we have people from all over the world, and we know what pizza is. We have plenty of places where you can eat Italian pizza cooked by real Italians. Of course cheese on toast isn't the same as pizza; my point, as far as it goes, is only that it's the same basic idea. It does seem to me that it's the Britishness of a dish that makes it crap by definition, which is why I like to compare our thing with another nation's version. We cook it, it's sausage and beans; the French cook it, and it's cassoulet. You can rave about a Japanese dish of fish fried in tempura batter served with a complex sweet and sour sauce, but in England it's just fish and chips with ketchup. I think we probably bring it on ourselves: if only we went around being as precious and uptight about our cuisine as some other nations, we too could have the reputation of being a gastronomic superpower. Perhaps da Doctah has a point about the names; I suspect the presentation is also part of the problem, but basically it's a PR issue.

Another thing that bugs me is the way people go on about how great France is because there's a baker on every street corner where you can get fresh bread. My reply to that is that in England there's a shop on every corner that sells fresh pasteurised milk. In most European countries you have to go to a cavernous hypermarket for that, and all you can get locally is the foul tasting UHT stuff.
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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby Echo244 » Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:50 am UTC

Zylon wrote:
Kit. wrote:
Justin Lardinois wrote:I don't know of a British dish that has more flavor than say, fish and chips; is there one?

Full breakfast?

Munchy box. Together with full breakfast, the alpha and omega of British cuisine.


Dear god, please don't tell them about the munchy box. We're trying to look refined here...

As for the additional stipulations about the quality... well, yeah, but that carries across to pizzas as well. There are some at the lower end of the market where the dough, tomato sauce and cheese are of sufficiently low quality that I wouldn't touch them even when assembled into a pizza. Reasonable quality, yeah, I'd still eat bread/tomato sauce/cheese/salt presented as separate items. My point was more that with good ingredients, it's an actual pleasure to have them presented that way.
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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:26 am UTC

Justin Lardinois wrote: I don't know of a British dish that has more flavor than say, fish and chips; is there one?

Black pudding?
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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby bigglesworth » Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:49 am UTC

Justin Lardinois wrote:I don't know of a British dish that has more flavor than say, fish and chips; is there one?
Spice doesn't equate to flavour.
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