1616: "Lunch"

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xtifr
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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby xtifr » Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:59 am UTC

Justin Lardinois wrote:I hate to be that guy, but I love that old joke about how there are three types of British food: bland, disgusting, and bland and disgusting. I don't know of a British dish that has more flavor than say, fish and chips; is there one?

inb4 kebabs or curry. Those aren't British food; they're the food of other countries that just happen to have large immigrant populations in Britain. Though I don't doubt the British varieties are the best you can get in the western world.

Except that Tikka Masala is entirely a British invention. Granted, it may have been invented by an immigrant (the exact details are a bit unclear at this point), but it's fairly clear that it was invented in Britain, by a resident of Britain. That makes it pretty British as far as I'm concerned. And I'm not particularly biased, since I live on the other side of the planet.

For that matter, to answer your first question, yes, roast beef all by itself has more flavor than fish and chips, and is about as traditional a British food as you can name. For that matter, they've always done some decent meat pies/pasties. It's a nightmare what they used to do to poor, innocent vegetables, but they did a few ok things with meats. And they also make some decent cheeses.

I won't claim to be a fan of British cuisine, or anything insane like that, but I don't think the situation is quite as dire as you suggest. Though its not as far off as the Brits might wish... :D
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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby StClair » Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:23 am UTC

England built a world-spanning empire searing for food with actual flavo(u)r.
And when they finally arrived in "Inja", the skies opened and angels sang, and the LORD said, "Behold, for I have led you to the Promised Food."
(And they loaded it all up and sailed home and declared that curry was totally their thing now.)

This quest also led them to discover tea (the drink, not the ritual meal), which as a means of making water safe to drink far surpassed the previous practice of brewing it into weak beer and being mildly pissed all the time.

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby HES » Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:44 am UTC

xtifr wrote:(the exact details are a bit unclear at this point)

I was under the impression that the origin has been narrowed down to one of two rival curry houses in Birmingham.
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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby orthogon » Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:30 pm UTC

HES wrote:
xtifr wrote:(the exact details are a bit unclear at this point)

I was under the impression that the origin has been narrowed down to one of two rival curry houses in Birmingham.

I thought chicken tikka masala was invented in Scotland. Balti almost certainly comes from Brum, though.
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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby Echo244 » Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:35 pm UTC

StClair wrote:This quest also led them to discover tea (the drink, not the ritual meal), which as a means of making water safe to drink far surpassed the previous practice of brewing it into weak beer and being mildly pissed all the time.


I don't think everyone's got this memo. Or if they have, it goes right out of the window on Friday nights...
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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby gmalivuk » Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:48 pm UTC

Echo244 wrote:
StClair wrote:This quest also led them to discover tea (the drink, not the ritual meal), which as a means of making water safe to drink far surpassed the previous practice of brewing it into weak beer and being mildly pissed all the time.


I don't think everyone's got this memo. Or if they have, it goes right out of the window on Friday nights...

Is it always Friday night in Britain?
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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby StClair » Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:23 pm UTC

Big difference between drinking to get drunk and, essentially, adding just enough alcohol to the solution to act as a disinfectant. Which was often the only practical means, back in those *cough* "natural and unspoiled" days before sanitation and germ theory, of making your water supply (likely either a stagnant well, or a stream in which everyone and their livestock for miles around ****s and/or dies) less likely to kill or sicken you.

Tea (which gives you a reason to boil that water instead) is superior, IMO, not least because it's a stimulant rather than a depressant.

Back to the strip. Was just reading it again, and thinking:
"Cut or pull the loaf open, put the cheese in, sprinkle some or all of the salt into the tomato sauce and pour that over the cheese. Close the loaf again and eat it as a sandwich (or, I suppose, a calzone). Sounds rather tasty, actually."

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby SuicideJunkie » Tue Dec 15, 2015 3:02 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:Is it always Friday night in Britain?

I believe it is always Friday evening, technically; the sun never sets on the empire after all.

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby HES » Tue Dec 15, 2015 3:22 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:Is it always Friday night in Britain?

Half the time. The other half, it's Monday morning.
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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby orthogon » Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:42 pm UTC

StClair wrote:[...] (or, I suppose, a calzone). Sounds rather tasty, actually."

I've found calzone a bit less appetising since I learnt the word's Spanish cognate calzón, which refers towhat we call knickers (=panties). I vaguely assumed it was something to do with the shape, but in fact the etymology is more interesting: the modern Spanish meaning developed from a word meaning trousers (=pants), which developed from a word for stockings or socks, which ultimately came from a Latin word for shoes. The Italian is from the "socks" meaning, since the pizzoid is stuffed in a similar way to a sock. I like the way derivatives of a word for "shoe" have gradually worked their way up the body; I wonder how long it will be before a descendent of calceus means "hat"?
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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby Tova » Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:52 pm UTC

HES wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:Is it always Friday night in Britain?

Half the time. The other half, it's Monday morning.


Occasionally it's Thursday, but you can never really get the hang of those days.

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby jc » Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:18 am UTC

CharlieP wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:Italians tend to have a much more limited range of things that count as "pizza"


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33542392


That's pretty funny. It does remind me of the theory that American pizza really was a homegrown concoction with multiple sources. It may have been based on an Italian forerunner, but the name is the main thing that Italian and American pizza have in common. The basic idea of stuff mixed together and spread on a thin layer of bread, and baked, was picked up, plus the idea of cheese and tomatoes (as sauce or pieces) also worked its way in there somewhere. But the idea that there might be "right" ways to make it didn't really catch on. Much of pizza's success in the US was based on the vagueness of the recipe, and wildly different things are produced in different restaurants. Some Italians have tried to get Americans to make pizza "the right way", but this mostly just leads to confusion. Nobody would say there's anything unusual about the Italian forms, because the Italian combinations of ingredients all look totally normal to American eyes (and mouths). But why would anyone restrict their pizza to only specific combinations? That doesn't make sense. There are also the "deep dish" pizzas, which would probably offend a lot of Italians, but in much of the US, it's just an obvious variant that some people like (and others don't).

We also get influenced by the similar concoctions from places other than Italy. Thus, I live in the next town west of Watertown, Massachusetts, which is home to one of the largest immigrant Armenian communities in the US. You see Armenian writing on the signs of a good number of restaurants hereabouts. A favorite local food store is the Eastern Lamejun Bakery on Belmont St. The term "lamejun" is a common Armenian food made by taking a small (20 cm or so) circle of dough, spreading a number of ingredients over it, and baking it. It's often defined as "Armenian pizza". It's not much like the Italian form, though. One of their best sellers has a very thin layer of bread, covered with a mixture of ground lamb and spices, plus probably a bit of olive oil. Another has a thicker bread, essentially the Greek pita bread, covered with a layer of cheese and spices, often with small chunks of various veggies (mushrooms, broccoli, and yes, tomatoes) mixed in. I've worked on a number of computer projects in the vicinity, where people often arrange for lunch-time meetings where much of the food served comes from Eastern Lamejun, and the little pizza-like objects are quite popular at such lunches.

Another related food served at many Middle-Eastern and North-African (esp. Ethiopian) restaurants in the area consists of a thin sheet of thin bread, covered with various mixtures of chopped veggies and/or meat, plus a sauce, baked, and either round and served on a plate, or rectangular and rolled up into a tube that's sliced into segments. It's obviously related to pizza, but it would probably offend many Italians to say so.

All this has probably added to the confusion over any concept of what's "normal" for such foods. People see all of these as the same sort of food. They just mix whatever ingredients they like, with varying thicknesses of the bread layer, and sometimes rolled up if you like them that way. The thinner lamejuns stay warm longer if you roll them up, so people often do this if they're served flat. But a very normal part of all this is that the result is often called "pizza", even when none of the ingredients originated anywhere near Italy. This is probably because the Italian form was one of the earliest "thin bread with stuff on it and baked" thing was seen in the US. But I've never heard of Italian pizza with avocado or pineapple or clams as ingredients, while I have had them in local restaurants. ;-)

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby ps.02 » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:25 am UTC

Quizatzhaderac wrote:Basically the entire point of cooking is that the ingredients are far less appetizing than the final dish.

This. Pizza is made of stuff that wouldn't be as good if you didn't make pizza out of it, lol.

Zylon wrote:I get what Randall's going for here, but bread, cheese, and a glass of tomato juice actually sounds like a decent lunch. So fail. Should have done cake instead.

This too. If you play the just-eat-all-the-ingredients game, there's so many foods that come out far worse. Anything that starts with raw meat or eggs, for a start. (IMO.) A meal of bread, cheese and marinara, maybe a shallow bowl of olive oil, sounds kind of awesome.

(But not with orange juice.)

Copper Bezel wrote:Oh, it's just vacuum molded into the flatbread die.

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby San Fran Sam » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:32 am UTC

E pluribus unum.

That's all i gotta say.

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:37 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:
Quizatzhaderac wrote:Basically the entire point of cooking is that the ingredients are far less appetizing than the final dish.
Zylon wrote:
orthogon wrote:As someone who feels that our (British) cuisine is unfairly maligned, I like to point out whenever possible that pizza is basically cheese on toast.

Uh, by equating toast with pizza crust you're actually reinforcing the stereotype of the dull British palate and its penchant for "__________ on toast". Bit of a backfire there.
That really just makes it sound like you don't know what pizza is supposed to be.

I'd say you'd get more mileage from "You're not doing it right" types of arguments.

The thing is, we are a melting pot of a country, we have people from all over the world, and we know what pizza is. We have plenty of places where you can eat Italian pizza cooked by real Italians. Of course cheese on toast isn't the same as pizza; my point, as far as it goes, is only that it's the same basic idea. It does seem to me that it's the Britishness of a dish that makes it crap by definition, which is why I like to compare our thing with another nation's version. We cook it, it's sausage and beans; the French cook it, and it's cassoulet. You can rave about a Japanese dish of fish fried in tempura batter served with a complex sweet and sour sauce, but in England it's just fish and chips with ketchup. I think we probably bring it on ourselves: if only we went around being as precious and uptight about our cuisine as some other nations, we too could have the reputation of being a gastronomic superpower. Perhaps da Doctah has a point about the names; I suspect the presentation is also part of the problem, but basically it's a PR issue.
I lived in England for two and a half years and it's not a PR issue. It's very easy to find mediocre food and relatively easy to find food that (to my palette) is disgusting or people that seem to rejoice in this bland food. The issue isn't the names, it's people who actually eat it, go back home, and say "Toad in the hole is actually much worse than it sounds."

If I get a plate of rice and beans, I expect a dish from one of several rich culinary traditions. I would be very surprised to get "just" rice and beans. If I go to a random restaurant in England and order bangers and mash, I would not be surprised to get just just mashed potato and unseasoned, flabby sausage.
StClair wrote:Big difference between drinking to get drunk and, essentially, adding just enough alcohol to the solution to act as a disinfectant.
Beer needs to be pretty strong to act as a disinfectant. The reason ye olde beer was so much safer to drink is that boiling is a step in the process of brewing beer. If you just add 7% ethanol to swamp water, you'll get very sick if you drink it.
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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby freezeblade » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:55 pm UTC

StClair wrote:Big difference between drinking to get drunk and, essentially, adding just enough alcohol to the solution to act as a disinfectant. Which was often the only practical means, back in those *cough* "natural and unspoiled" days before sanitation and germ theory, of making your water supply (likely either a stagnant well, or a stream in which everyone and their livestock for miles around ****s and/or dies) less likely to kill or sicken you.


Felt I had to correct this, in brewing beer, you are not "adding alcohol to water" you boil early on in the process, as well as add anti-microbial herbs (like hops) to keep the beer from spoiling. Yeast also out-compete "bad" bacteria during the fermentation process. "Add enough alcohol to the solution" indeed. :roll:
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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby Solra Bizna » Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:13 pm UTC

CharlieP wrote:Perfectly reasonable behaviour. Tomato sauce/soup/ketchup/juice/passata/puree are all tasty, but tomatoes are disgusting.

I once believed as you did. Then I tried a locally-grown heirloom tomato, and I learned that they aren't supposed to be indistinguishable from wet paper. I don't know if it's the shipping process, generations of breeding for appearance and not flavor, or what, but tomatoes from a random American supermarket are very far from the "real thing"; perhaps more so than any other produce I'm aware of.

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby da Doctah » Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:45 pm UTC

Solra Bizna wrote:
CharlieP wrote:Perfectly reasonable behaviour. Tomato sauce/soup/ketchup/juice/passata/puree are all tasty, but tomatoes are disgusting.

I once believed as you did. Then I tried a locally-grown heirloom tomato, and I learned that they aren't supposed to be indistinguishable from wet paper. I don't know if it's the shipping process, generations of breeding for appearance and not flavor, or what, but tomatoes from a random American supermarket are very far from the "real thing"; perhaps more so than any other produce I'm aware of.

You're not the first to have that particular epiphany:
https://youtu.be/OBLqzGrq8T0

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby gmalivuk » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:48 pm UTC

Solra Bizna wrote:I don't know if it's the shipping process, generations of breeding for appearance and not flavor, or what
It's (almost?) never breeding for appearance, but for durability, due to said shipping process. Heirloom tomatoes (and soft varieties of apples as well) are restricted to local markets because they're bred for flavor rather than durability, and thus don't ship well anywhere else.
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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby bigglesworth » Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:22 pm UTC

Well, they do ship well. Just in tins after being boiled until their skins come off.
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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby orthogon » Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:44 am UTC

Quizatzhaderac wrote:If I get a plate of rice and beans, I expect a dish from one of several rich culinary traditions. I would be very surprised to get "just" rice and beans. If I go to a random restaurant in England and order bangers and mash, I would not be surprised to get just just mashed potato and unseasoned, flabby sausage.

In my experience it's France, the self-avowed home of food, where you only get what's literally in the name of the meal and have to order any vegetables you might want as extras, though this is never pointed out to foreigners at the point of ordering. In England it's assumed that you want a whole meal including trimmings and these are included by default. Sausage and mash would generally come with an onion gravy. It's actually the gravy or the sauce on the side that makes a lot of dishes, although in this case there are plenty of tasty spicy English sausages, of which the Cumberland and Lincolnshire varieties are just the most famous.
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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby CharlieP » Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:11 am UTC

The United Kingdom is not short of excellent food, restaurants or chefs, but I struggle to think of what is actually "British food", other than the old stereotypes of fish and chips, bangers and mash, Sunday roast, spotted dick etc. Having absorbed gastronomic influences from around the globe for centuries, if you were to go to any pub or restaurant not proffering a particular cuisine, the menu would doubtless give you a range of choices including a meat and vegetable dish, a pasta dish, usually a curry, and others. At the higher end of the scale, "British" restaurants seem to offer traditional styles of meat (e.g. leg of lamb, steak, chicken breast etc.), but with a lot of "appropriated" variety in the accompaniments.

These are the current main course choices from four restaurants I've been to recently (one page actually headed "Traditional British Menu"!):

Herb-crusted Rack of Lamb with dauphinoise potato and mustard green beans £18.95
Breast of Cajun Chicken with frîtes, salsa and soured cream £13.25
Breast of Gressingham Duck ‘Bigarade’ with savoy cabbage & bacon and croquette potatoes £17.75
Steak & Frîtes – 6oz Rump Steak with tomato, frîtes and Béarnaise sauce £14.50
Pan-fried Calves Liver with creamed potato, wilted spinach, pancetta & crisp shallots £16.95
Slow-roasted Lamb Shank with creamed potato, broccoli, vine tomatoes and rosemary jus £16.75
8oz Ribeye Steak with tomato, frîtes and peppercorn sauce £19.75
Breast of Corn-fed Chicken with spätzle. pancetta & wild mushroom cream sauce £15.95
Wild Mushroom Risotto with truffle oil & parmesan crisp £12.75
Cod loin, chorizo, white beans, spinach, saffron sauce 17.95
Plaice, new potatoes, kale, broccoli, olive, caper & chilli dressing 16.95
Pork tenderloin, celeriac, sprout tops, confit garlic 17.25
Rump of lamb, red cabbage, creamed potato, salsa verde 18.50
Roasted squash risotto, roscoff onion, hazelnuts, sage mascarpone & kale crisps (v) 12.95
Wild mushroom fregola, aubergine & basil pesto, Old Winchester (v) 12.95
Thai style coconut chicken, udon noodles , chilli, ginger, lime leaf
Slow cooked pork belly, black pudding mash & mustard pear
Lincolnshire asparagus Risotto, balsamic onions & Parmesan crisp (v)
6 oz heart of Rump Steak, Cherry tomatoes & wild Mushrooms, French fries, Horseradish Butter (£5 Supplement)
Roulade of plaice and Parma ham , Provençaux Vegetables, smoked Paprika Aioli
Roast chump of lamb, onion bulgur wheat, celeriac puree, black cabbage 18.50
Madgett’s confit duck leg , spelt & mushroom risotto, roasted mushroom, confit carrot 16.50
Sea bass, baked chicory, parmesan, pickled fennel & grapefruit 18.50
Courgettes & peppers fried in tempura served on grilled halloumi, spiced lentils (v) 16.50
Whole baby plaice, ratte potatoes, green beans, saffron hollandaise, tomato & capers 17.95
Hereford beef steak, parmentier potatoes, wild mushrooms, peppercorn sauce 24.95
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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby Copper Bezel » Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:33 am UTC

orthogon wrote:
Quizatzhaderac wrote:If I get a plate of rice and beans, I expect a dish from one of several rich culinary traditions. I would be very surprised to get "just" rice and beans. If I go to a random restaurant in England and order bangers and mash, I would not be surprised to get just just mashed potato and unseasoned, flabby sausage.

In my experience it's France, the self-avowed home of food, where you only get what's literally in the name of the meal and have to order any vegetables you might want as extras, though this is never pointed out to foreigners at the point of ordering. In England it's assumed that you want a whole meal including trimmings and these are included by default. Sausage and mash would generally come with an onion gravy. It's actually the gravy or the sauce on the side that makes a lot of dishes, although in this case there are plenty of tasty spicy English sausages, of which the Cumberland and Lincolnshire varieties are just the most famous.

Oh, good. I've only been to England once for a week, I only got bangers and mash once in that time, and it was one of the best things I ate that week, mostly owing to the red onion gravy that just doesn't exist on my side of the Atlantic. I was suddenly concerned I'd been living a lie all along after reading Quizatzhaderac's post. I'm happy to see that not be the case.
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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby Solarn » Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:09 am UTC

Echo244 wrote:...how are the raw ingredients meant to be gross? Or is it just when accumulated into one lump that makes you realise the quantity of cheese you're eating?

Good fresh bread, some fresh tomato sauce and a block of reasonably nice cheese, plus a small pile of salt, sound like something that might be quite nice as a sort of rustic lunch. Dip the bread in the sauce, alternate with some of the cheese, sounds quite pleasant.

Also, from memory, not far from the ration of a Roman soldier - bread, half a pound of meat or cheese, some sort of available vegetables/whatever, and a salary...


The salary thing is a myth. Roman soldiers were never paid in salt. But yes, tomato sauce on bread with some cheese and a bit of salt sounds like a nice lunch.

Justin Lardinois wrote:
orthogon wrote:As someone who feels that our (British) cuisine is unfairly maligned, I like to point out whenever possible that pizza is basically cheese on toast.


I hate to be that guy, but I love that old joke about how there are three types of British food: bland, disgusting, and bland and disgusting. I don't know of a British dish that has more flavor than say, fish and chips; is there one?

inb4 kebabs or curry. Those aren't British food; they're the food of other countries that just happen to have large immigrant populations in Britain. Though I don't doubt the British varieties are the best you can get in the western world.


Ploughman's lunch. Black pudding. Haggis (Scots are still British, they voted on that). That quintessential English breakfast, ham and eggs. Bubble and squeak. Shepherd's pie. Beef Wellington. And that's just stuff I've personally tried.

Quizatzhaderac wrote:If I go to a random restaurant in England and order bangers and mash


See, that's your problem right there. Who in their right mind orders English cuisine in a restaurant in England? You get yourself invited to an English friend's home for lunch or dinner. Or go to a pub. Restaurant food is made for foreigners with more money than sense and is as bland as the (mildly xenophobic) chef can get away with. Pub food is kind of a fifty-fifty chance if you're unfamiliar with the area, but in a proper pub it's made for the regulars, some of whom might not be completely smashed yet when they eat it and would notice if it was bad.

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Thu Dec 24, 2015 5:58 pm UTC

Solarn wrote:See, that's your problem right there. Who in their right mind orders English cuisine in a restaurant in England? You get yourself invited to an English friend's home for lunch or dinner. Or go to a pub. Restaurant food is made for foreigners with more money than sense and is as bland as the (mildly xenophobic) chef can get away with. Pub food is kind of a fifty-fifty chance if you're unfamiliar with the area, but in a proper pub it's made for the regulars, some of whom might not be completely smashed yet when they eat it and would notice if it was bad.
I did have the opportunity to eat at friends' houses.

As for pubs I vaguely remember (this is back in the 90s) some news magazine peace or another having a leade something along the lines of "It used to be that pub food was only for the starving or pissed, but more and more pubs are not sucking" that combined with your statements makes me suspect/hope my experience is dated.
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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:14 pm UTC

mis post, please delete.
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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby orthogon » Fri Jul 01, 2016 11:24 pm UTC

I'm not too sure whether Quizatzhaderac just replied and the quoting went wrong, or what, but rereading this discussion, something strikes me. Pubs are primarily drinking establishments, and until twenty years or so ago most didn't do food at all, except for "shelf-stable snack products" like crisps and nuts. Many of us still see pubs doing food as an amazing novelty; many pubs still don't, and those that do often stop serving food at some stupid time like 6pm. Even during the times that food is notionally sold, don't be surprised to be told that "the kitchen is closed" or "the chef's gone home" with no suggestion that this requires an apology or explanation. Other times they can only serve food in particular areas of the pub, even if that area is full and nobody there is eating. And of course our pubs are often simply packed with no tables available.

I think all this might contribute to our boozy binge-drinking culture. It's far too easy to go to the pub and end up drinking too much on an empty stomach.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby Pfhorrest » Sat Jul 02, 2016 12:36 am UTC

orthogon wrote:I'm not too sure whether Quizatzhaderac just replied and the quoting went wrong

I've been getting a lot of notifications of "replies" lately that turn out to be Quizatzhaderac editing some old post from years ago that included a reply to me in it (and whatever the edit was, it's not obvious or called out). What's going on Quizatzhaderac?
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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:27 pm UTC

I see something I wrote a long time ago with some spelling errors typos, etc. I go to edit it, but I accidentally hit the quote button instead of the edit button.
Last edited by Quizatzhaderac on Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:09 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby Soupspoon » Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:06 pm UTC

Quizatzhaderac wrote:typos, ect.

Then you'll be wanting to know that it's 'etc' , then. (et cetera, "and the rest")
Sometimes written '&c', but I consider that pretentious and confusingly code-like...

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby ps.02 » Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:34 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:Sometimes written '&c', but I consider that pretentious and confusingly code-like...

The thing I noticed far too recently is that & not only means "et", it is actually a ligature for it. That realisation was as fun as the time I saw a street sign in Berlin whose font made it obvious that ß was a ligature for "sz".

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Re: 1616: "Lunch"

Postby Copper Bezel » Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:56 pm UTC

Yeah, I've started pretentiously typing "&c." ever since having that pointed out to me, although my brain pronounces it as "and c" even reading my own writing.
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