Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (N5)

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby heuristically_alone » Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:12 pm UTC

Vicarin wrote:heuristically_alone: Actually seems pretty good overall, but I'd like more content. I don't agree with all his reads, but hey, I can somewhat see where he's coming from I guess?

Vicarin wrote:Most scummy are Mark, bessie, Madge, most townie is h_a.

Why do you need more content from me when you already know I'm town but you don't agree with most of what I say? Or better question possibly, is there any specific content you're hoping I provide?

BoomFrog wrote:We seek a team of three with ill intent

I read this as being Boomfrog's setup spec, so interesting that wam is wanting to take it as fact. The main reason I am scum reading moody is that he keeps making assumptions of people's posts and/or interpretering them wrong and seeminly using that information to scumhunt. Most recent example:
LaserGuy wrote:
moody7277 wrote:LaserGuy meta-gaming the mod is humourous, but also interesting how he's decided to back up heury.

What do you mean by this? How am I backing up heury?

It feels a little what wam was soing here. And the fact that wam reads moody as town is suspicious.
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby heuristically_alone » Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:27 pm UTC

*sigh* I must have accidentally deleted part of my last post. Trying to remember what all got left out.....

LaserGuy wrote:heuristically_alone: Town heury is charming. Scum heury is abraisive. This is Town heury.

Well this is enlightening :shock:
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby mpolo » Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:34 pm UTC

I am in agreement with Mark that the "oracle style" of BoomFrog's statements are intended to express opinions, even though stated as facts. However, I am also in agreement with wam that this is going to make BoomFrog very hard to pin down as regards slips, lies and misleading statements. At present, BoomFrog looks pretty townie.

Thank you, LaserGuy for pointing out the "modslip". I like to think I would have noticed that the second time through, and should have noticed it the first time.
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby wam » Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:14 pm UTC

Is anyone else finding sabrars quietness disconcerting...
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby heuristically_alone » Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:31 pm UTC

But I dont think Sabrar would be this quiet as scum. He'd be too self conscious about being too quiet.
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby bessie » Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:55 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote: I've ignored bessie for too long and she deserves more than just a few lines.
Goshfrickindarnit Sabrar. I was here all day yesterday waiting for you, and you post ten minutes after I sign off to go to sleep. It’s almost like you planned it that way.

I think I’ll address this first:
Sabrar wrote: Previously minor point against her that is upgraded to major seeing how it also appears in the first part: going into this game this was going to be the tell that I planned to use to read bessie D1. It basically boils down to the fact that town!bessie is always suspicious of me while scum!bessie knows that my gambit is coming from town so she tolerates it (best example is Secret Santa 2017 where nobody understood what I was doing and bessie didn't even try to figure out, except in scum-chat).
Therefore it was a huge red sign for her to dismiss the reveal of my secondary win-con, however the reasoning for it is absolutely valid and could theoretically be coming from town!her.
You need to rethink this. How often do you meta read me correctly?

For the purposes of this discussion, I’ll take the point of view that your secondary win con claim is true, as the secondary win cons are NAI:
jimModmacdoodle wrote:Win conditions have not been modified based on the alignment of the receiver.

I will also make the assumption that you are a sensible enough player to realize that it is not worth sacrificing your primary win for a secondary win.

Some observations based on game mechanics, not meta. I do not see it as a good move for scum to make the claim that you did in your opening post, unless you are godfather and even then it is risky because no role is guaranteed sane. Perhaps you are scum and are willing to risk that every townie will target you tonight, including the cop, and your partner will have free reign to kill unblocked and undetected. In a game this small, it is a very poor trade for scum to sacrifice themselves as the D2 lynch just for a clean N1 kill [reminder, my setup spec is 8/2/1, more on this later]. You would have to be pretty confident in your partner’s ability to carry the remainder of the game. If I may insert a small meta read here, I see a very small pool of players fit this description, and not all of them are even playing this game.

If you are a scum PGO making this claim, this would likely be revealed on D2 also. Again, not worth the sacrifice to get an extra kill. There is a decent chance that you would be targeted tonight by someone anyway, even without a claim, you being you.

If you are cult that recruits all that target you and are going for a quick N1 victory, no, you’re too experienced to do it this way. You would have predicted the reluctance that we have now seen in-thread to targeting you because you asked. You would have correctly concluded that most players would have the same reaction as LaserGuy here.

Re your quote above, where are you getting the idea that I have completely discarded the possibility of scum!Sabrar and have you cleanly in the town category? I have suspicions, but they are independent of your secondary wincon claim.

Next up, this:
Sabrar wrote:Major point against her (not the Gojoe post, tell was made public so won't be used in the future): not commenting on my mistake in setup-spec. She claims that it doesn't mean anything because "I never said your numbers look OK." however town!bessie always pays great attention to my content and would definitely say if she found something amiss.

You are misinterpreting this:
bessie wrote:Post 4
Aknowledges error in Post #1. Made another error in this:
Sabrar wrote: BTW I made a mistake with my last setup-speculation, 7-1-1-1 adds up to 10 players only, meant to type 7-1-1-1-1. I find it interesting that noone noticed and corrected. It suggests to me that some players didn't really care about actual setup-numbers and just said that my numbers look okay to appear being helpful. I bet we find scum in {bessie, moody, Vicarin, wam}.
I never said your numbers look OK.
I never said your numbers were ok because fmpov they weren’t. I had already decided the setup was 8-2-1. It had nothing to do with the error.
Sabrar wrote: bessie copied the different setup-specs under each other and had 7-2-1-1 right on top of 7-1-1-1, still not a peep to be heard. I think this either comes from the fact that she paid less attention to the actual numbers because she already had a pretty good idea, or from the second point I'm about to discuss.
Sabrar wrote: But now that she's alluding to having noticed my error and not correcting it deliberately this point again comes into play.
I didn’t notice your error. I missed it completely because I didn’t scrutinize them carefully enough. I didn’t notice it until you pointed it out.

The reason as to why is wine soaked, and I won’t explain it all right now. I will say that I got up early to make sure I would have time to post on Thursday morning. I made my post, and was thinking about wam’s post which wasn’t sitting right with me so I made a quick second post before leaving. I just copied all the setup numbers as I saw them, because the numbers themselves weren’t important to my point, and I didn’t even see the mistake.

Sabrar wrote: Major townie points for having the same 2 players at the bottom of her list. Despite her claiming somewhat otherwise I don't think she would bus this hard this early (but might if it's true about day-chat).
Can you clarify this please (honest, not snarky request)? Does this refer to me or Madge? And the same list as whom? Madge hasn’t even made a list. She's barely posted.


bessie wrote:Can you give some examples, and compare the similar aspects of my gameplay in this game and in Stellaris, and how this differs from my town games? Because unless you can do that, you’re just name dropping.
Vicarin wrote:Well, out of the completed games we've played together (NNYMafia, Stellaris, and Alien Warfare), you've correctly read me as town on D1 reasonably easily in the games where you were town, while in Stellaris you had no strong opinion and then eventually went hard on the attack on D2.
Hmmm.

bessie wrote: Here, you're spending many posts just going after me in particular, and only doing light interaction with other people. Hence, strongly reminds me of Stellaris.
Wine, but this is my town meta, not my scum meta. Or now, neither because it has been pointed out by Hari Seldon and thus has no value.

Similarly, I could make a read like this:
heuristically_alone wrote:I don't know, Vicarin is always fishing for information no matter the role.
theoretical scum!bessie wrote: This is true. The fishing in itself is something I find scummy, but I also am aware that perhaps it is something that Vicarin just does. Like his impatience with people unwilling to claim. I discussed this a little here. I will need to think carefully as to whether or not this is alignment indicative and perhaps reevaluate my read.
Hmm, am I rationalizing my reread here, like Zenii pointed out I do when I’m scum?

mpolo wrote:BoomFrog's oracular posting style is harder to read, but is feeling more and more townie with time. If his secondary win condition is simply the oracular posting, I would agree that it is a tool that can cut two ways.
Sigh. Is no one reading my posts?

wam wrote:However, I haven't played any previous WOT so I don't know how crazy Jimbob likes to go with the setups.
Informational comment: Very. WoT2 had one mafia team that didn’t know their partners, two rival recruiting cults, and a pool of townies that didn’t know their alignment. But I believe that the scope of this game is supposed to be more traditional. This is not mod confirmed, just a feeling based on various little bits in Gojoe posts over the past six months.

wam wrote:Then I thought back to stellaris where we managed to get vic lynched on a similar fishing case when he was town. Having looked back at stellaris I feel the case is actually similar.
Read Stellaris mafia chat #20 and #31. I thought Vicarin was indie in Stellaris. One reason I think I have been somewhat successful as mafia is that I still scum hunt when I’m mafia (see Misnomer’s original Smalltown for a prime example). So mafia!me tunneling someone for being indie in any game is totally NAI, because I believe it.

wam wrote:Countering that I think a scum PGO is very very unlikely.
Hmmmm.....
jimModmacdoodle wrote:Players were assigned their Ajahs before alignments were determined.
Most, but not necessarily all, abilities are based on the chosen Ajah.
So wam, what do you think are the odds of a town PGO?

I like you Mark_Cangila. You get it.

wam wrote: Even one who is master of their art can make a mistake worthy of the beginner .
:lol:

Need to come back to P5.

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby Sabrar » Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:19 pm UTC

bessie wrote:It’s almost like you planned it that way.
Yes, everything I do is with the exact purpose of annoying you. You caught me. Oh wait, no. It's usually the other way around. :roll:
bessie wrote:You need to rethink this. How often do you meta read me correctly?
How often do I read anyone correctly? Ask jimbob. :)
bessie wrote:Re your quote above, where are you getting the idea that I have completely discarded the possibility of scum!Sabrar and have you cleanly in the town category?
Because so far there have been no signs that you haven't and usually there would have been by now.
bessie wrote:I never said your numbers were ok because fmpov they weren’t.
bessie wrote:I didn’t notice your error. I missed it completely because I didn’t scrutinize them carefully enough.
Ok, I will consider it from this pov as well.
bessie wrote:
Sabrar wrote: Major townie points for having the same 2 players at the bottom of her list. Despite her claiming somewhat otherwise I don't think she would bus this hard this early (but might if it's true about day-chat).
Can you clarify this please (honest, not snarky request)? ... And the same list as whom?
Same as me. You also have Vicarin and moody at the bottom.

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby wam » Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:20 pm UTC

heuristically_alone wrote:But I dont think Sabrar would be this quiet as scum. He'd be too self conscious about being too quiet.


I agreed with this and then started thinking that maybe sabrar wants us to think that and then were well.down the rabbit hole.

@ Bessie. Good point. I like pgos as a role by think it's unlikely in this game as with 11 and very power heavy it would be too hard to balance.
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby LaserGuy » Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:32 pm UTC

wam wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:Moving wam into my scum pile. Some of those reads are very alarming


Which ones?


Boom, moody, Madge, vic, bessie.

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby LaserGuy » Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:44 pm UTC

Vicarin wrote:Have you got any current reads lists? Can you explain the modslip? What in particular made/makes you think Mark is town? Any guesses for setup spec?


Mark is putting a lot of effort into thinking about the game and figuring things out. Yea, he's made a few newbie mistakes, but I don't get any scum motivation from him. I think setup is probably 8-3, 9-2, or 8-2-1. Secondary wincons and Indies both is excessive to my mind. I think I've answered the rest already.

LaserGuy wrote:Also @Vic: Were you given a choice of three players as your person of interest for your secondary? If so, why did you choose wam?


Pffff no, it was assigned randomly, I asked.


Hmm... My secondary wincons also relates to a particular player, and is IMHO, much easier to achieve than yours. Your secondary feels a bit weird to me because there's very different outcomes on it depending on your alignment. It's basically a luck-based mission if you're Town. Either way, I received a choice of three players for my person of interest so it's curious to me that you did not.

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:37 pm UTC

Votals:

Vicarin - 3 (Sabrar, bessie, Mark_Cangila)
Sabrar - 1 (Madge)
Boomfrog - 2 (Vicarin, wam)
Madge - 1 (LaserGuy)

Not Voting: BoomFrog, mpolo, moody7277, heuristically_alone

11 alive, 6 to lynch (as previously mentioned). Deadline in 3 days and 20.5 hours. Countdown timer.
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby moody7277 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:58 pm UTC

Nice to see wam's entree into the game, and with such interesting content. His read of BF's oracularness as sinister looks like proper townie paranoia; a lot of us are giving BF the benefit of inscrutability, not going to hold it against wam for not following the crowd. Putting him on a town read.

@h_a: I don't see it as wam reading me as town, he's reading me as me.

Thanks to LaserGuy for pointing to what he was talking about. With the particular statement highlighted I was able to fridge logic it independently of his unpacking it in his post.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby bessie » Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:03 pm UTC

Ok I’m back. I had to leave earlier because my husband had been pestering me for an hour to take Hoku to lunch and I was like NOT NOW I’M BUSY so when I was finally ready it was too late to go to the dog café because it’s like a half hour drive and at least a half hour wait on Sunday so we went without Hoku to the Mexican restaurant and that means margaritas so you get an out of character stream of consciousness post from me while I sober up.

wam wrote:Is anyone else finding sabrars quietness disconcerting...
Do you? Quiet how? And what do you read in to it? Or would you like to know everyone else’s opinion before you commit to your own? Salmon or trout?

Sabrar wrote:
bessie wrote:It’s almost like you planned it that way.
Yes, everything I do is with the exact purpose of annoying you. You caught me. Oh wait, no. It's usually the other way around. :roll:
Perhaps you planned your post so that it would sit there 12 hours undisputed before I could respond. :roll: :roll:

Sabrar wrote: How often do I meta-read anyone correctly? Ask jimbob. :)
FTFY.
Madge (started to do a search but realized I would getting Gojoe so stopped immediately). I think we’ve discussed your Madge meta reads before. Or perhaps I am misremembering. [/obvious sarcasm]
heury in X-men (I have a link practically bookmarked).
More I will think of later.

Sabrar wrote:Because so far there have been no signs that you haven't and usually there would have been by now.
I’ve already caught Vicarin and moody and maybe Madge do I need to catch everyone on D1?

wam wrote:@ Bessie. Good point. I like pgos as a role by think it's unlikely in this game as with 11 and very power heavy it would be too hard to balance.
Small games on the first page with PGO:
Secret Santa 2017 10 players wam was PGO.
X Men Mafia 9 players LaserGuy was PGO.
MMM II 12 players moody was PGO.

Vicarin wrote:Pffff no, it was assigned randomly, I asked.
jimModmacdoodle wrote:Win conditions have not been modified based on the alignment of the receiver.

LaserGuy, how does this much randomness have any hope of being fair for any possible roll of the RNG?
Mafia!Vicarin’s Role PM wrote: You are Mafia with wam. You share day chat and a factional kill.
Mafia!Vicarin’s Secondary Win Condition wrote: You have randomly been assigned wam. If he is town, you need him to survive until the end of the game. If he isn’t, he needs to die first out of any non-town.


Ninja'd I'll be back.

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby Vicarin » Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:19 pm UTC

@h_a: I wanted more content from you in particular because even though I'm disagreeing, having lots of information from someone who is solidly town is good for comparing and seeing what your logic is.

@LaserGuy: can't do much about the balance of my 2nd wincon, so it just sucks to be me, I guess?

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby bessie » Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:54 pm UTC

moody7277 wrote:Nice to see wam's entree into the game, and with such interesting content. His read of BF's oracularness as sinister looks like proper townie paranoia; a lot of us are giving BF the benefit of inscrutability, not going to hold it against wam for not following the crowd.
Woof woof. Woof woof! Grrrrr......

Vicarin wrote:@LaserGuy: can't do much about the balance of my 2nd wincon, so it just sucks to be me, I guess?
I seriously can’t understand why, if you are telling the truth, you ever took trying for this secondary wincon seriously. Sorry wam you know I love you but Oh me yarm. There was a game that I didn’t play and I can’t remember which one it is (pre post edit: Misnomer’s Seaside Mafia) but Lunch Meat was lovers with Vytron and I felt so bad for her as I followed her posts in the Gojoe thread. Vicarin you could have ignored it and instead worked toward your primary win condition from game start. You had to be prodded to make a reads list and for other content. Like this:
Vicarin wrote:Have you got any current reads lists? Can you explain the modslip? What in particular made/makes you think Mark is town? Any guesses for setup spec?
I did this too in my first game as scum. Hid the question I wanted answered in a list among other questions I didn’t care about. IIRC, Madge and SDK mentored me on my error.

That reminds me…
Madge wrote:I’m lurking and I need to make a post!

And bessie is awesome!

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby Vicarin » Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:44 am UTC

@bessie: are you seriously scum reading me for asking a series of questions all at once that I want the answers to, when you yourself do that all the time? Really?

:roll:

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby bessie » Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:29 am UTC

1. Have you got any current reads lists?
2. Can you explain the modslip?
3. What in particular made/makes you think Mark is town?
4. Any guesses for setup spec?

-You asked LaserGuy these questions here.
-LaserGuy ninja’d answered #1 (and partially answered #3) here.
-Answer to #2 is here.
-Answers to #3 and #4 here.

#1 (and to a lesser extent #3) is the type of question that I would think the questioner would follow up on the reply if they were really interested. You haven’t even followed up on either of those. At this point in the game, I think #4 is noise, made because you were prodded by LaserGuy for questions. If it really actually meant something to you, you would have followed up, and questioned him on the 9-2, as no one else has given that answer yet (I don’t think) and I find interesting because I think there was some grumbling over Meta Mafia needing four mislynches. #2 you asked twice. It is an information type question, like “when’s deadline” or “what’s a PGO” that doesn’t require a follow up. I think that possibly that was the only question you really wanted answered.

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:57 am UTC

The man bitten by a viper will fear the garden snake.
How unfortunate for us all the wam has his head up his ass.

Seriously, it's amazing that barking like a dog led to less misunderstandings then trying to sound wise. However, I'm become more of a distraction then benefit to town, so this shenanigan is ending early. @wam: I was seriously just saying my guess at the setup is 8-3 since we just talked in gojoe about laserguy's analysis that 3 man scum teams are far more successful and I think that would be fresh in JimBob's mind. If I were mod I 'd have made a 3 man scum team with day chat and then all town PRs. Maybe it's because you read things all at once and didn't get the context of the timing, but it was pretty obvious that I was just following up on other people's recent setup spec. In what world would I seriously forget to not say how many scum there are as scum? What was the purpose of that sentence if I was scum?

Anyway, I don't think wam would be confident enough to attack me on such a ridiculous premise as scum so I'm putting him in the townie pile.

LaserGuy gets zero credit for pointing out the modslip. Scum!LG would absolutely have pointed that out as well trying to earn townie credit.

@Sabrar: I believe bessie on the numbers thing. I also read 7-1-1-1 as your intent of "all indies plus town" and dismissed it as unlikely without consider exactly how many townies it would take. I think it's reasonable that she read your intent instead of your literal words. For the record bessie is only a slightly town lean, but I'd wanted to make it clear she wasn't a scum read anymore when I declared her town earlier.

@mpolo: My secondary win has nothing to do with the oracle speak, and I do not have any special info, everything was just guesses. I think you are town, I have no idea if you are a miller.

The actual best result from my shenanigin is that it pissed vicarin off so much. I think scum!vicarain would have been happier to let me be a distraction. His frustration seems genuine so I am confident at least that he does need to determine wam's alignment. It's possible he is an indy, in which case he is probably on our side if wam is town. It seems very unlikely that he is scum. Although with the apparent craziness of JimBob's previous incarnations of WoT he might be some sort of cult wanabe or something but going back to my original point I suspect he does care about sorting me and is therefore town. @bessie: I recommend you broaden the scope of your investigations.

moody gets very fatalistic when he is scum and accused of being scum. He's also been scum a few times in a row now I think. He seems to have given up instantly after Sabrar's quip about being the D2 lynch. It feels like he is very frustrated with being scum and lynched early repeatedly. There's a bunch of other things that are seem off as well which I'll go dig up later, but now it's time for dinner.
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby Vicarin » Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:37 am UTC

Thank goodness.

Unvote BoomFrog

I was seriously worried that you were going to try to keep it going seeing as this isn't a newbie game.

@bessie:
1: I read his reads list, thought some made sense, and some less so (criticising me for superficial reads when catagorizing plenty of people on tone is.... interesting). I'm not sure what you'd expect me to follow up on in particular.

3: asked this because I am still completely mystified at people townreading Mark, and I wanted to hear more detailed explanations. I didn't really get one. Oh well.

4: I'm still trying to work out exactly what the setup speculation implies in general seeing as my 2nd wincon does leave wide open the possibility of more than one anti-town group. Wondering whether the rather large amount of 8-3 guessed are trying to obfuscate the number of groups. 9-2, while novel, could definitely work with some kind of cult mechanic, so I'm not sure what you expected me to say?

Mark moving his vote onto me, making it 3 votes, while justifying it with a retracted bessie argument strongly suggests opportunistic scum to me, so now that I don't have to protest against BoomFrog...

Vote: Mark_Cangila

Also adding myself to the pile of people who think Madge needs to say more soon.

Also, wam does seem damn erratic right now. Jumping on BoomFrog for saying 8-3 is really silly as has been pointed out, especially since others have made that statement too.

@wam: what about moody's content do you like so much?

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby bessie » Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:27 am UTC

BoomFrog wrote: However, I'm become more of a distraction then benefit to town, so this shenanigan is ending early.
I knew this was coming sometime within the next 24 hours but I’m still disappointed. :(

Some previous BoomGambit analysis. I wrote this up yesterday, and I think that it is worth noting the Newbie New Year results for now, and how it relates to this game. [Dark Tower included because I looked at it but that gambit was aimed at the newbies more than being a general gambit so probably not as useful.]

Spoiler:
Newbie New Year Mafia BoomDog results:

BoomFrog wrote: Players who got it, and defended me: <3 Bessie <3 , LaserGuy, Jimbobmacdoodle
These players know my meta and understood I was trying to generate a reaction in order help scum hunting. They are all good enough players to fake it, so not guaranteed town, but big townie points.

Players who got it but were slow to defend me: Sabrar
Perhaps it's the distraction of my vote on him, or just Sabrar general coolness, but another explanation was that Sabrar was having trouble deciding if he should find me townie or neutral or even scummy for my woofing. It feels like he waited for Bessie's post and then followed her lead.

Players who got it and ignored it: Hari Seldon
I can imagine many townie and scummy reasons for Hari to hold back from commenting on my shenanigans, but it most seems to be a play style. I'm not getting any strong alignment indication from him either way.

Players who didn't get it, and were angry with me: somitomi, Vicarin, flicky1991
From the perspective that my woofing was not helpful to town, this is the sensible reaction. It seemed I was not playing well as scum or as town, and that is just frustrating for them. They didn't find me scummy, but they did threaten me with the only tool they have, the lynch, to try and force better play. Townie points here for natural reactions.

Players who didn't get it and thought it means I'm scum: moody7277, cemper93
That mental disconnect is much more likely coming from scum.
Hard to parse if "very lynchable" means scummy, or is just a threat to force me to shape up and play better. I feel like it's the former but I'm less confident about moody then cemper (especially since moody always looks scummy).

Players who are Peaceful Whale: Peaceful Whale
I think this catagory is actually, "People who didn't get it but didn't care." which puts him in a townie natural reaction category. Townie points here too.

So my bottom four are Sabrar, cemper, moody, Hari. I think my confidence is strongest on Cemper.


Actual alignments: Underline for BoomDog was right, italics for BoomDog was wrong.
Town: flicky, somitomi, LaserGuy, Vicarin, Sabrar, jimbobmacdoodle, moody, bessie
Scum: Peaceful Whale, Hari Seldon, Cemper


The Dark Tower BoomGambit analysis:

BoomFrog wrote: So conclusions:
townie:
Carlington
bessie
plytho
#HBC | Zyth

neutral:
SDK
Gopher of Pern
FrozenFlame
#HBC | YOLOSWAG
LaserGuy

scummy:
jimbobmacdoodle
mpolo
dimochka

Of particular note is that despite my last post once I reviewed my notes LaserGuy is still had a lot of other scummy behavior so I'm think he is actually just competent scum.


Actual alignments:
Town: dimochka, Carlington, Gopher of Pern, bessie, plytho, FrozenFlame, Zyth
Mafia: jimbobmacdoodle, SDK, LaserGuy
Serial killer: YOLOSWAG
Independent: mpolo


BoomFrog wrote: I was seriously just saying my guess at the setup is 8-3 since we just talked in gojoe about laserguy's analysis that 3 man scum teams are far more successful and I think that would be fresh in JimBob's mind. If I were mod I 'd have made a 3 man scum team with day chat and then all town PRs.
I don’t agree on the setup. I think there has to be three factions. Still deciding what I want to say about it.

BoomFrog wrote: @bessie: I recommend you broaden the scope of your investigations.
I think you are wrong about Vicarin. But regardless if I am correct about Vicarin and the setup, we are looking for two more non-town. I shall broaden my scope. Hopefully Madge will show up soon. :P


Interesting how there is a very noticeable change in Vicarin’s content now that you told me to back off him.

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby Sabrar » Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:37 am UTC

@BoomFrog: how can you put wam in the townie-pile if you agree with me about moody? Plus there's the fact that nobody attacked him due to his 'overreaction' which I'll elaborate on later.

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby Vicarin » Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:45 am UTC

@bessie: Uh, you think I've changed my content based off a single post immediately after BoomFrog's? Maybe I'm just happy BoomFrog isn't doing the silly RPing anymore :P

@Sabrar: can't elaborate now? You're definitely holding back on a lot of info this game...

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:51 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:@BoomFrog: how can you put wam in the townie-pile if you agree with me about moody? Plus there's the fact that nobody attacked him due to his 'overreaction' which I'll elaborate on later.

I'm probably not seeing the specific thing you are talking about, about moody. My biggest scum ping from him came after your declaration of doom.

The wam read isn't considering connections. But in a vacuum his attack is too absurd. Possible if he felt a buddy was threatened, especially if it's a 2 man team. If no one attacked him it's mostly town who didn't attack him. Several people defended me but no one attacked wam. Scum wouldn't attack first D1.

wam-moody team feels too blatant...
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby bessie » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:29 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:@bessie: Uh, you think I've changed my content based off a single post immediately after BoomFrog's? Maybe I'm just happy BoomFrog isn't doing the silly RPing anymore :P

No. It’s all about me me me.

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby wam » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:31 am UTC

bessie wrote:
wam wrote:Is anyone else finding sabrars quietness disconcerting...
Do you? Quiet how? And what do you read in to it? Or would you like to know everyone else’s opinion before you commit to your own? Salmon or trout?
.


Trout please!

And I have already answered this is think. Also I think it's clear from the post I found it disconcerting. Blame the margaritas for you missing that!
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby wam » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:37 am UTC

@Bessie

For ss 17 I submitted a pgo. Mods took it out.
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby wam » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:50 am UTC

Hmmm I have been back and looked at booms.comment in time context rather than in iso. It does look less like a slip in context.

unvote
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby wam » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:56 am UTC

BoomFrog wrote:
Sabrar wrote:@BoomFrog: how can you put wam in the townie-pile if you agree with me about moody? Plus there's the fact that nobody attacked him due to his 'overreaction' which I'll elaborate on later.

I'm probably not seeing the specific thing you are talking about, about moody. My biggest scum ping from him came after your declaration of doom.
...


I have been back through Moody's content. I am still not seeing the initial case. I think I have spotted the same ping as boom though which is making me more suspicious.
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby wam » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:04 am UTC

Having looked at the deadline we have 2 days and a bit so need to get posts and votes going. On that note

vote madge

As a content prod.
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby wam » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:03 am UTC

Might as well.make it 6 posts in a row. The more I think about vics vote on Mark the less I like it. It's very omgus and seems opportunistic. What I don't get is what scum Vic would gain from this move. But it doesn't seem like a move town Vic would make. Maybe indie?
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby Vicarin » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:28 am UTC

wam wrote:The more I think about vics vote on Mark the less I like it. It's very omgus and seems opportunistic.


Could you explain why you think it's opportunistic?

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby wam » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:32 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:
wam wrote:The more I think about vics vote on Mark the less I like it. It's very omgus and seems opportunistic.


Could you explain why you think it's opportunistic?


Because he is a.newbie who won't be able to defend himself well.
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby Vicarin » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:36 am UTC

wam wrote:
Vicarin wrote:
wam wrote:The more I think about vics vote on Mark the less I like it. It's very omgus and seems opportunistic.


Could you explain why you think it's opportunistic?


Because he is a.newbie who won't be able to defend himself well.


:roll:

Is everyone going to give Mark a free pass? I have no idea what he could do at this point that would make you think he's scum if you don't think his last vote is opportunistic.

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby wam » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:40 am UTC

I and others are getting a proper newbie town vibe off him. Which is something that is very hard to fake.
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby Sabrar » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:43 am UTC

I had ~2k unread emails in my Inbox this morning. I'm mostly caught up but will be quite busy this week.

Vicarin wrote:@Sabrar: can't elaborate now? You're definitely holding back on a lot of info this game...
Was on phone. At first glance wam's reaction seemed a bit over the top to me but then I remembered that I had a similar 'outburst' in Newbie Mafia and I know at least one more example off the top of my head. So I was eager to see if anyone would attack wam based on that because it seemed like an easy point to make. But no-one did, increasing the likelihood that wam was scum in my opinion.
To note: as far as I can tell wam hadn't followed up on this:
wam wrote:Will look at these in more detail on my read through.


BoomFrog wrote:If no one attacked him it's mostly town who didn't attack him. ... Scum wouldn't attack first D1.
Agree with first part, disagree with second. Scum wants to break out of predictable patterns.
BoomFrog wrote:wam-moody team feels too blatant...
Unless they think they don't have any other choice.

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby wam » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:28 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:I had ~2k unread emails in my Inbox this morning. I'm mostly caught up but will be quite busy this week.

.

Ouch that sucks!

Sabrar wrote:
wam wrote:Will look at these in more detail on my read through.

.


I did look at this just didn't make it clear in my reads. Decided I was overreacting. Especially Mark as that came across as a newbie mistake having not clocked gojoe.

And it feels like day 1 now I'm being scum read by sabrar. So sabrar going for the broken clock is right twice a day approach? If you keep finding me scummy day 1 you will eventually be right.
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby heuristically_alone » Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:26 pm UTC

During Alien Warfare in Giejoe wam stated that as scum he'd prefer to lurk, but knows that will make him look scummy, so instead posted quite a bit. I think wam at the very least is trying to appear anti-town a little. I'm reading him as town that doesn't want to be the night kill.
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby Mark_Cangila » Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:30 pm UTC

Sabrar was right in Alien Warfare I believe. Also, having re-read the game, I'm seeing a lot more evidence against madge. tbh the SDK Roleplaying needs to stop. It's hurting town.

Vote: Madge

With the conditional that she has to stop roleplaying to have a change at avoiding my vote.

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby heuristically_alone » Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:34 pm UTC

I can't really put a read on Madge d1 since she hates participating in d1. How cruel would it be to lynch her today!?
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby Vicarin » Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:40 pm UTC

Decently cruel especially since she apparently drew straws with somitomi, but Meta Mafia proved that she CAN contribute well on D1, so I'd appreciate some effort...

@Mark: No comment on switching off me, just going after someone else now? Hmmmmm...


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