Doctor Whom

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Clix
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Clix » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:37 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:Well, it's imminent. Sunday 7th. Though I may well not get to see the season premiere (slipping into leftpondian, there) until a few days later due to various things, and I've no idea how BBC Worldwide is scheduling on foreign outlets.



My understanding that it will be broadcasts in all outlets at the same time as the UK premier. In my case BBCAmerica will show it at 1345 Eastern, with repeats through out the day/evening. My personal plan is to record it and then watch it so I can zap the commercials.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Soupspoon » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:59 pm UTC

Well, to my surprise I saw it 'live'.

Still composing my opinion, but I'll first leave this here.

(May be a spoiler, in a sidelong way, so really only for those who have seen it. But memorably identifiable as seen from the motorway by millions.)

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Flumble » Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:13 pm UTC

I nearly saw it live; it never stops amazing me how quickly a torrent is (highly) available after the broadcast.

It had a bit much going on, or, rather, it had much going on during several parts of the episode and didn't have clear climaxes (climaces? climates?), but more like smooth hills with a gradual increase and decrease of tension.
I, err, need another 20 episodes to compose an opinion about this doctor. And I hope only 1 or 2 of 3 companions remain by the end of the second episode. Dinosaurs on a Spaceship was a mess. Well, that had a lot more than "just" three companions, but still.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby flicky1991 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:52 pm UTC

Flumble wrote:And I hope only 1 or 2 of 3 companions remain by the end of the second episode.
All three are companions for the whole season. Sorry. (It's not the first time we've had three - the original line-up had three companions, Fifth Doctor started out with three, etc.)
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Soupspoon » Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:30 pm UTC

I'm sure people with actual objections to it have said "there's been tickboxes for diversity - skin-colours of white, black, and 'shady'" or similar. The two women in the party are powerful and determined (one man is finding his confidence, the other may have had a lifetime already we do not know but seems to have been, literally, retiring if not shy). But I've not sought out those corners of the internet. Nor asked yet the opinion of the one person I know who definitely inhabits the overlap between Whovian and Bigot.

I'm familiar with the dominant accent-groups well enough, of both Doc and companions. I'm wondering how that assault on the senses goes down with the international audience? (You liked Daphne from Frasier, you say? Ecclestone was closer to that.)


As to the series proceeding, I think they've equipped themselves with building blocks for development. Unfulfilled Jasmin (a second year probationary police-officer must have plenty of interesting skills she's dying to use), new-breath-of-life Graham (like Brian Williams, speaking of Dinosaurs On Spaceships, but with plenty more scope), and a potentially eager Ryan who needs to redevelop his lost confidence. The latter two having lost their main anchor on Earth (not that that mattered, as it turned out!) and the first may not be too upset to have been temporarily forcibly divorced from the job she was perhaps 'married to' (perhaps against her culture, so parents may be distant).

I think a four-hander might well work. Three different aspects of humanity revolving (and negotiating with each other, when they have different viewpoints) as they wobbily revolve around the rather eccentric hub that is Thirteen. With Amy and Rory it was excitement and reluctance, respectively, tangoing around the Doctor, when together, but it seemed more like Amy orbiting like a planet and Rory as her moon. Single companions tend to Dr Watson the Time Lord Sherlock, relentlessly. But imagine the possibilities as different companions get to be the "one who needs it explained to" (though I suspect Ryan may do that more than the others, until he surprises us) and yet another may be the one to do that. Either from native experience or by down-translating the initial Doctor Explanation.


I was hoping to get another view, before giving much more about my impression, but for a starter I'm going to liken this to Eleventh Hour as a post-regen reboot/reaquisition. In a number of obvious ways. With some Deep Breath and a tad of Christmas Invasion obviously. I'm not sure it was the most consistently gripping story progression (slow start, could easily have been a regional drama with no SF elements!) but pieces came together.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Flumble » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:45 pm UTC

flicky1991 wrote:
Flumble wrote:And I hope only 1 or 2 of 3 companions remain by the end of the second episode.
All three are companions for the whole season. Sorry. (It's not the first time we've had three - the original line-up had three companions, Fifth Doctor started out with three, etc.)

Aww, bollocks, that means less Doctor. Then again, if they have to be contemporary humans (who are as stupid and unfamiliar with anything outside Earth as we are), having multiple companions may be the next best thing. Hadn't considered what Soupspoon describes, that multiple companions can be valuable to each other, whereas one companion is mostly just an asset to the Doctor.

[edit]made the last sentence more legible
Last edited by Flumble on Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:57 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Pfhorrest » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:33 pm UTC

I liked how the fact that the Doctor's a woman now (or rather, that half an hour ago she was a tall white-haired Scotsman) was just played off as but one of the many strange things about this person, at least from the perspective of the new companions and Thirteen herself, and didn't steal focus for the whole episode.

I do kind of wonder about the retconned implications on the Doctor's earlier life that this and some of the build-up to it have. She says she hasn't bought women's clothes in a long time, and in an earlier episode Twelve says something about when he was a little boy, then says something like "at least I think I was a boy at the time". Since every incarnation of the Doctor we've seen on screen has been a man, things like those seem to suggest that there are previous incarnations of the Doctor that we've never seen on screen, and that the First Doctor was not actually the first Doctor.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Soupspoon » Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:50 am UTC

With new companion(s) also across a regeneration-boundary, they don't even know that this crazy person hasn't been a woman. Well, I think she mentions it in the train, IIRC, but there's weirder stuff going on that she lands in the middle of*, and at that point she's not even capable of giving her name. Later on she mentions she's not even human, and by that time nobody has any reason to object.

It might have been different in a different time and a different place (I'm wondering if the TARDIS field will hep, cover for that, as it does weird clothes, etc, except when the dressing-up box is arbitrarily raided** for… reasons) but this is contemporary urban Britain and she's dealing with two men who each know and love a strong, professional (medical!) woman who is also there, and leaps into the gathering storm of the adventure, plus the other strong professional woman who isn't going to question that aspect of this strange new person.


On past lives, canon (I think) has it that the First Doctor is the oldest age reached by the incarnation that is the boy seen in the flashback scene of (I think) young Doctor and Young Master traipsing off to stare into the naked Time Vortex in Sound Of Drums. (Or another time, but definitely referenced by Timothy Dalton arranging to contaminate the latter with the four-beat mindworm that contributes to him going mad like he always did... Timey Wimey!) And the count of Doctors (including the sometimes disavowed War Doctor and that bit where Ten regenerated into himself and dumped the metacrisis into the 'handy' recepticle) sort of matches the "twelve regenerations, thirteen incarnations including the original one" idea at the point when Eleven gets a much desired fresh set (another twelve?) from Time Lord HQ after that long stint on Trenzalore.

Though it's a dubious count, especially as during Eleven's time he gets a lives-saving dump of younger River's erstz regeneration-energy at one point and is "remembered anew back into the post-Pandorica universe" by Amy. Either of those things could mess up the tally as well. But Eleven is sure enough the limit was reached.. (Although Twelve's sort-of-7000 years of re-encountering The Veil in that castle in the sea must not have used anything up?)

I think any "buying women's clothing" might have been during Romana's companionship (as a courtesy for a fellow Time Noble?) or just for any of the earthgirls at some between-adventure lull. The several generations (of locals) of time in holding off the enemies on Trenzalore alone is long enough to have made that and Twelve's entire tenure the period the Doctor has not had a sniff of a ladies' clothing department. That also couldn't be accommodated by the TARDIS's cupboards.

Rose Tyler, at least, was initially directed to find the wardrobe "first left, second right, third on the left, go straight ahead, under the stairs, past the bins, fifth door on the left" or thereabouts, and has been actually seen in other forms before and after that point. Eleven initially reoutfitted himself 'in the wild', like Thirteen, but most of the others seemed to already have this wardrobe stocked sufficient for their tastes and also any passengers (many having been female).

But then we know The Doctor can be a bit of an unreliable narrator about his(/her) past, if we shift the blame entirely from merely the inconsistent/lore-ignoring scriptwriting, so who knows what the real truth is, and even if The Doctor is capable of keeping proper track of such stretched-truths!?!


* Coincidence? Or nascent story-arc, a la Bad Wolf meme or Missy appearing in the background to each tale?
** Often then to find they've actually landed in the wrong time/place/climate, And the companion still tends to get away with it, except where plot demands, while the Doctor tends to get a pass.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby rmsgrey » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:06 am UTC

Yeah, we've accounted for 13 lives, so him having been her previously would be a genuine retcon, rather than just a revelation of a previously unmentioned part of the past. Him having cross-dressed in the past would not be a retcon (or even terribly surprising). But we also know he had a family and someone (or something) stocked the TARDIS wardrobe. I think the bigger surprise is that the Doctor has been clothes shopping in the past, rather than that it included buying women's clothes...

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:12 am UTC

Given that we've had at least one episode revolving entirely around the fact that the TARDIS can just make you anything you want, that's a good point. Why ever shop for anything?

And I should be clear that when I say "retcon" I don't (necessarily) mean changing previously-established history. Revealing previously-unrevealed history fits too. Say for example if it were revealed that "the Doctor" had previously (before the start of the show) used up a set of 13 lives and then gotten another set (just like Eleven-who-was-actually-Thirteen did, when he became "Twelve"), but didn't start using the name "the Doctor" until he got that first set, so in the same sense that the "War Doctor" wasn't "the Doctor", none of that first set of lives were "the Doctor" either, but they were still the same person who has gone by that name... and some of them could have been women.

Given the Doctor's ancient role in the Cartmel Master Plan (unimplemented as it may be), something like that wouldn't be so far-fetched.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Jorpho » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:23 am UTC

We never did hear about The Valeyard again. (Except for that bit before the Doctor jumped into his own timestream. What a silly mess that was.)

Anyway, calling it now:
Spoiler:
By the end of the season, the Doctor will have had to make a Terrible, Terrible Choice and will be responsible for "authorizing" the hunters.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby flicky1991 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:22 am UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:She says she hasn't bought women's clothes in a long time
Soupspoon wrote:I think any "buying women's clothing" might have been during Romana's companionship
I'd just like to note that the last confirmed time was the Eleventh Doctor buying a dress for River Song. I think it was in one of the shorts they made for the DVDs.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:40 am UTC

Yeah I'm disappointed that with Eleven's "I'm actually Thirteen!" revelation, the whole setup for the Valeyard was just erased, because the Valeyard should have happened somewhere between TenTwo and "Eleven". I mean, I know, technically the Valeyard is just "somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation", and now that "final" and "thirteenth" are not synonyms, the Valeyard could happen anywhere any time! But then why would he have mentioned twelfth specifically. The whole WarDoctor/TenTwo thing has really screwed up... everything.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Soupspoon » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:18 am UTC

It's almost as if continuity is just on "occasionally smiling and nodding at in the street" terms with the series…

;)

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby moody7277 » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:11 am UTC

Ghost Monument

Spoiler:
--First shot I was thinking "looks like the Improbability Drive kicked in"
--Apparently we might have another Danny Pink with Ryan saying "this is what I was trained for" *pew pew*
--The new TARDIS interior is going to take some getting used to. Especially the Stonehenge inner ring.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Flumble » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:15 pm UTC

"I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere."

...is one of the lines that unfortunately didn't make it into this week's episode set in space San Helios.
Are the Stenza going to be the new big bad? So far they feel amateurish if you compare their introduction with the introduction of the (2006) daleks or the weeping angels. Then again, travel a millennium into the future mid-season and suddenly they're a force to be reckoned with.

re: Ghost Monument
Spoiler:
moody7277 wrote:--Apparently we might have another Danny Pink with Ryan saying "this is what I was trained for" *pew pew*

Hmm, I'd be surprised if Ryan was in the military at some point. He seems more of a Call of Duty player.

It was weird how the doctor gave up so easily near the end of the episode. IIRC she said the tardis was phasing in and out of existence, so you can reasonably expect it to be out of phase for a bit when you arrive. Also there's lots of tech to work with, so she should be able to build a space ship in no time.
And I remember someone saying (while enumerating the hostilities of the planet) the air is toxic. Where did that come from? I'm inclined to say it was rather nourishing, since no one got hungry for a whole day.
Also where did she get the sunglasses? And why aren't they sonicked?


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