Trump presidency

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ijuin
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby ijuin » Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:47 pm UTC

If Trump goes down for election shenanigans then Pence will probably go the way of Spiro Agnew—he will get replaced and then the replacement will likely finish out the term.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Sizik » Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:51 pm UTC

ijuin wrote:If Trump goes down for election shenanigans then Pence will probably go the way of Spiro Agnew—he will get replaced and then the replacement will likely finish out the term.


If they both get impeached/removed from office at the same time, would Pelosi become president (assuming she wins the Speaker vote)?
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Thesh
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Thesh » Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:56 pm UTC

If Trump and Pence were impeached, the Senate would probably oust Trump, let Pence appoint a VP, then remove Pence and allow the new VP to take the Presidency.

If the Dems know what's good for him, they will drag it out through 2020.
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CorruptUser
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:58 am UTC

Will people please remember; if Nixon had never appointed Gerald Ford, the next president would have been the Speaker of the House, Gerald Ford.

Now, if we could get Trump to appoint Pelosi...

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby freezeblade » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:24 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Will people please remember; if Nixon had never appointed Gerald Ford, the next president would have been the Speaker of the House, Gerald Ford.

Now, if we could get Trump to appoint Pelosi...


I'll place that at equal odds of winning the lotto.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:55 pm UTC

Sizik wrote:
ijuin wrote:If Trump goes down for election shenanigans then Pence will probably go the way of Spiro Agnew—he will get replaced and then the replacement will likely finish out the term.


If they both get impeached/removed from office at the same time, would Pelosi become president (assuming she wins the Speaker vote)?
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby freezeblade » Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:57 pm UTC

Trump personal attorney and fixer Michael Cohen sentenced to 3 years in prison, followed by 3 years probation.

https://www.npr.org/2018/12/12/67604007 ... cated-trum

I can't help but dig out this tweet, which has aged very well indeed:
Spoiler:
Image


One down...
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Thesh
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Thesh » Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:15 am UTC

Prediction: A Wet Rag Stuffed Into a Tailpipe will be forced to take on the role of Chief of Staff as Trump will not be able to find someone to take the job.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby iamspen » Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:33 am UTC

DHS decides fuck it, we'll just kill the kids now.

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CorruptUser
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:58 am UTC

That's a bit of an exaggeration, though not much of an exaggeration. Sounds more like a DHS fuckup than intentional murder, not providing basic necessities for detainees prior to transport to secure facilities or whatever, which isn't too much of a problem when the detainees are relatively healthy. Unless, you know, you are capturing people from a place like a desert or something, but that's not an issue considering that the Mexican-American border is known for its extensive rainforests, lakes, and piles of free food.

Though that brings up an interesting philosophical question. Which is the greater evil; harm caused through malice or indifference? The one who harms through malice has twisted reasons, but the one who harms through indifference doesn't even need a reason...

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:17 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:That's a bit of an exaggeration, though not much of an exaggeration. Sounds more like a DHS fuckup than intentional murder, not providing basic necessities for detainees prior to transport to secure facilities or whatever, which isn't too much of a problem when the detainees are relatively healthy. Unless, you know, you are capturing people from a place like a desert or something, but that's not an issue considering that the Mexican-American border is known for its extensive rainforests, lakes, and piles of free food.

Though that brings up an interesting philosophical question. Which is the greater evil; harm caused through malice or indifference? The one who harms through malice has twisted reasons, but the one who harms through indifference doesn't even need a reason...

Statistically, it's indifference, though the populist/xenophobic fanning of hatreds marries the evils of indifference and malice quite well.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Quercus » Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:24 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Which is the greater evil; harm caused through malice or indifference? The one who harms through malice has twisted reasons, but the one who harms through indifference doesn't even need a reason...


I would suggest that regarding a well-resourced organisation with a clear duty of care indifference is functionally malicious. To be specific, not having due regard for a person's wellbeing when you are detaining them, thereby removing their ability to care for their own wellbeing, is malicious, because the baseline standard here is not "doing nothing", it is minimally fulfilling your duty of care.

Neglect of a child is considered abuse when it's parents doing it, I can't see a reason to hold the DHS to a lower standard.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Zamfir » Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:57 am UTC

sardia wrote:Statistically, it's indifference, though the populist/xenophobic fanning of hatreds marries the evils of indifference and malice quite well.

Yeah, bad treatment of asylum seekers is rarely pure "indifference". It might be at the individual level, but the organisation behind the individuals can accept or fight such indifference, and choose to provide or withheld adequate funding. The choices at the organizational level are deliberate, even calculated. If it works badly, it's because people want a badly functioning organisation in order to deter future asylum seekers.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:09 am UTC

They killed that child with malignant neglect,
During 8 to 10 hours of custody, she was not given one sip of water.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby iamspen » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:43 am UTC

If a parent or legal guardian did the same, they'd certainly be charged with murder, and may be allowed to plead down to manslaughter.

Those in charge of this girl should not be exempt.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Link » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:16 am UTC

Zamfir wrote:
sardia wrote:Statistically, it's indifference, though the populist/xenophobic fanning of hatreds marries the evils of indifference and malice quite well.

Yeah, bad treatment of asylum seekers is rarely pure "indifference". It might be at the individual level, but the organisation behind the individuals can accept or fight such indifference, and choose to provide or withheld adequate funding. The choices at the organizational level are deliberate, even calculated. If it works badly, it's because people want a badly functioning organisation in order to deter future asylum seekers.

IMO, when it comes to willingly and knowingly working for an organisation whose primary business is the incarceration and deportation of innocent people, indifference is by itself malicious, even on an individual level. In fact, I am comfortable calling anyone who works for any kind of immigration or border control authority at the very least morally bankrupt by default. There's *some* wiggle room in that (e.g. someone who has to choose between a temporary desk job at the ICE and not being able to feed their own family), but it's small, and anyone directly involved in detaining asylum seekers for the sole "crime" of being foreign or undocumented or whatever is outright evil as far as I'm concerned.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby cphite » Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:26 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:That's a bit of an exaggeration, though not much of an exaggeration. Sounds more like a DHS fuckup than intentional murder, not providing basic necessities for detainees prior to transport to secure facilities or whatever, which isn't too much of a problem when the detainees are relatively healthy. Unless, you know, you are capturing people from a place like a desert or something, but that's not an issue considering that the Mexican-American border is known for its extensive rainforests, lakes, and piles of free food.


When you're detaining someone you accept responsibility for their security and their well being - especially in the case of a child or someone with special needs. Regardless of the health status of this child before she was detained, this could have been avoided simply by someone paying attention to her condition. This was criminal negligence at the very least.

Link wrote:IMO, when it comes to willingly and knowingly working for an organisation whose primary business is the incarceration and deportation of innocent people, indifference is by itself malicious, even on an individual level. In fact, I am comfortable calling anyone who works for any kind of immigration or border control authority at the very least morally bankrupt by default. There's *some* wiggle room in that (e.g. someone who has to choose between a temporary desk job at the ICE and not being able to feed their own family), but it's small, and anyone directly involved in detaining asylum seekers for the sole "crime" of being foreign or undocumented or whatever is outright evil as far as I'm concerned.


That's a pretty unfair characterization of what ICE actually does.

It's true that under Trump, there has unfortunately been a shift towards more people being detained or deported unjustly... but the reality is that the vast majority of people detained or deported by ICE are people who have actually been accused of criminal activity, beyond being undocumented. A lot of what ICE deals with involves people who are trafficking drugs, weapons, or even people.

Most people who cross our borders illegally are just ordinary people looking for a better life. But there is a subset of people who cross illegally because they're up to no good; mostly because they're involved in illegal activities, or because they're trying to avoid legitimate prosecution for crimes committed in their own countries. Those are the primary folks who ICE is concerned about.

One of the better things that Obama did during his tenure was to focus ICE more towards people who were committing crimes, especially violent crimes. And, one of the worse things Trump has done is diminish that focus. But all in all, ICE still does far more good than they get credit for doing. The problem is, just like with law enforcement in general, stories about abuse make for the best headlines.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:10 pm UTC

The problem was the girl was with a group of 160+ people who turned themselves in. DHS doesnt have a fleet of vans every few blocks, it takes time to get everyone to a safer place. Imagine if 3 cops had arrested 150 people outside of town; it's not going to be pretty getting everyone to the station even if they do cooperate. It's possible they did have water but not enough for everyone and they ran out without doing triage first (which would be incompetence/negligence). We dont know, and given this admins view on transparency and honesty, we may only get the alternative facts to what really happened.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:39 pm UTC

Oh! Good Grief!
ICE is a large well funded operation.
They Can give water to every person they interact with!
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Chen » Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:53 pm UTC

The girl in question should definitely have been showing signs of this that they should have recognized and provided care for the 8 hours before she started seizing. Even forgetting that, this implies they didn't give ANYONE water for the 8 hours they mention here, which in and of itself is a huge problem. They are certainly partially responsible here.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:18 pm UTC

Chen wrote:The girl in question should definitely have been showing signs of this that they should have recognized and provided care for the 8 hours before she started seizing. Even forgetting that, this implies they didn't give ANYONE water for the 8 hours they mention here, which in and of itself is a huge problem. They are certainly partially responsible here.
Right...
Each and every person must be offered The Basic Necessities, EveryTime!

There was a time when we were better than this.
We were the Good Guys. Not always, but often.

I am a U.S. Citizen.
I know this is shameful behavior.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby cphite » Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:45 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:The problem was the girl was with a group of 160+ people who turned themselves in. DHS doesnt have a fleet of vans every few blocks, it takes time to get everyone to a safer place. Imagine if 3 cops had arrested 150 people outside of town; it's not going to be pretty getting everyone to the station even if they do cooperate. It's possible they did have water but not enough for everyone and they ran out without doing triage first (which would be incompetence/negligence). We dont know, and given this admins view on transparency and honesty, we may only get the alternative facts to what really happened.


No.

Running out of water for the day would be understandable... not acceptable, but understandable. A bunch of people are taken in and they didn't bring enough - that's a logistical problem. Again, not acceptable - it should never happen - but it's within the realm of shit that might happen.

This girl apparently hadn't had food or water for several days. There is absolutely no excuse for that happening. None. That isn't mere incompetence, nor is it a bureaucratic failing - that's criminal negligence at a bare minimum. That's arguably homicide. These assholes have a legal and moral responsibility to provide for the safety and basic needs of detainees no matter what. There is absolutely no excuse for a detainee going without food and water, and absolutely no excuse for any detainee - especially a child - being so poorly supervised that they wouldn't be noticed long before it became a medical emergency.

Someone needs to go to jail over this. That probably won't happen - but someone needs to.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby idonno » Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:05 pm UTC

The girl was taken into custody until eight hours before the seizures. They can't change what happened before taking her into custody so running out of water for the day is the same as her going without water for several days and dying. I disagree with you on that being understandable though. Sure they may have been surprised with the amount of people they took into custody but eight hours is a long time and locations to acquire water in this country are abundant. If these people hadn't eaten or drunk for days, there is no way they didn't know there was an issue which means someone in the chain of command made a deliberate decision that it wasn't worth the effort and/or cost to source water for them immediately. When people are severely dehydrated, you do not assume there is plenty of time, you get them water ASAP.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby cphite » Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:13 pm UTC

idonno wrote:The girl was taken into custody until eight hours before the seizures. They can't change what happened before taking her into custody so running out of water for the day is the same as her going without water for several days and dying. I disagree with you on that being understandable though. Sure they may have been surprised with the amount of people they took into custody but eight hours is a long time and locations to acquire water in this country are abundant. If these people hadn't eaten or drunk for days, there is no way they didn't know there was an issue which means someone in the chain of command made a deliberate decision that it wasn't worth the effort and/or cost to source water for them immediately. When people are severely dehydrated, you do not assume there is plenty of time, you get them water ASAP.


When I say understandable I mean it's something that could conceivably happen - not that it's acceptable or excusable.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Chen » Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:45 pm UTC

cphite wrote:This girl apparently hadn't had food or water for several days. There is absolutely no excuse for that happening. None. That isn't mere incompetence, nor is it a bureaucratic failing - that's criminal negligence at a bare minimum. That's arguably homicide. These assholes have a legal and moral responsibility to provide for the safety and basic needs of detainees no matter what. There is absolutely no excuse for a detainee going without food and water, and absolutely no excuse for any detainee - especially a child - being so poorly supervised that they wouldn't be noticed long before it became a medical emergency.

Someone needs to go to jail over this. That probably won't happen - but someone needs to.


Unless I read it wrong they only had her in custody for 8 hours. Still ridiculous to not have given people water for 8 hours but not even close to the same as depriving them of food and water for days.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby cphite » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:12 pm UTC

Chen wrote:
cphite wrote:This girl apparently hadn't had food or water for several days. There is absolutely no excuse for that happening. None. That isn't mere incompetence, nor is it a bureaucratic failing - that's criminal negligence at a bare minimum. That's arguably homicide. These assholes have a legal and moral responsibility to provide for the safety and basic needs of detainees no matter what. There is absolutely no excuse for a detainee going without food and water, and absolutely no excuse for any detainee - especially a child - being so poorly supervised that they wouldn't be noticed long before it became a medical emergency.

Someone needs to go to jail over this. That probably won't happen - but someone needs to.


Unless I read it wrong they only had her in custody for 8 hours. Still ridiculous to not have given people water for 8 hours but not even close to the same as depriving them of food and water for days.


Yeah, I was not clear in what I wrote there...

There are signs that allow you to tell when someone is severely dehydrated; and when you're picking people up in that environment there is a reasonable expectation that people will be hungry, dehydrated and so forth. To miss those signs under these circumstances is completely inexcusable. To not give someone water for several hours is inexcusable. To do both at the same time... it's just fucking beyond inexcusable.

It's one thing to have a bunch of detainees and fail to provide a basic resource like water... it's unacceptable but it's something that's in the realm of possible, unfortunately. But to have a bunch of detainees who you can reasonably expect to already be suffering from dehydration and hunger, and to leave them unsupervised and without food or water... and they're kids...

This kid should have been getting medical attention from the moment she came into their custody. Instead they leave her unattended for eight hours.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby The Great Hippo » Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:05 am UTC

I'm not going to defend the border patrol's policies, but there are a few important facts that need to be established:
  • The girl started exhibiting symptoms while on a bus. Maybe the bus-driver should have radio'd or called for medical attention? Maybe the bus-driver wasn't even aware of what was happening? There's a lot of variables, here. I'd want to know more about these circumstances.
  • Once she was off the bus, it took an hour and a half for them (border security) to note her symptoms and get her medical care. That's unacceptable, but there is a difference between eight hours of negligence and an hour and a half of negligence.
  • Border security says water was provided. I don't know how fatal dehydration works; at a certain point, water might not help (at least, not water provided orally)? It's possible that it was too late for water to make a difference, here -- and border security didn't realize that. Which, yeah, that's shitty training, but it's not indifference. It's ignorance: "Oh, she's dehydrated. Let's give her water." Hour and a half later? "She's getting worse. Let's get her to a hospital."
I don't trust the border security, and I don't trust the things they're saying; I wouldn't be surprised to find out that they knew she was sick before they put her on the bus, or didn't actually provide water. That being said, I also think we need more information to understand what the situation really looked like. For me to feel comfortable about what happened here, I'd want to hear from the father. He's in the best position to tell us how this actually went down. Hopefully, he'll be willing to share his story (though considering what he's gone through, I'd more than understand if he just wants to be left alone).

Based on the information we currently have, the "best case" scenario that I see here is that border security put a sick girl on a bus without noticing that she was sick, then -- when she got to her destination -- took about an hour and a half to get her medical attention despite her being clearly very sick. That's horrible, and should be reason enough to change your policies -- but it's much different than "ignoring a dying child for 8 hours".

Either way, this is terrible, and these policies need to change (but not just because they killed a little girl).

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Sun Dec 16, 2018 2:00 am UTC

Well, the father is not complaining about the DHS handling, saying they provided water and food throughout. We will see if there was an "or else" hidden somewhere, especially since they tried to get the father to sign some documents in English when he doesn't speak/read it.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Thesh » Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:28 pm UTC

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-turk ... SKBN1OF0BM

So that guy Flynn wanted to kidnap so he could be murdered? Trump is apparently trying to extradite him. Trump really loves murderers.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Sableagle » Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:59 pm UTC

Trump said last month he was not considering extraditing the preacher as part of efforts to ease Turkish pressure on Saudi Arabia over the killing of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi in Istanbul.


How is the idea that a petulant wannabe tyrant might have helped a petulant dictator kill someone to stop him throwing a tantrum over another petulant dictator killing someone not surprising?
Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby gd1 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:45 am UTC

Gonna channel some Trump supporter stuff (at least my guesses on their ideals from yahoo comments):
+People from other countries are coming here and getting free stuff that we pay for from the government without working.
+LGBT people are going to attempt to go after our children and will peek at us in our bathrooms
+Abortion kills living beings and is murder
+Mass shootings are being staged or over-publicized as an excuse to take our guns away (I'm not going to argue for or against gun control, this is just what I saw on the comments section)
+People of color are getting preferential treatment in reparations for crimes that we had nothing to do with
+Muslims have attacked our country before, killed our troops, and their religion requires killing (not qualified to talk about the other stuff but... it doesn't at all, every single one of their talking points is easily refuted if they just look at the context of what they are citing). Why should we allow them in this country. They're all dangerous and a threat.
+Liberals are making it so that anyone who speaks their mind will lose their job or their business.

=== Below this is other speculation, the above is food for thought. ===

So it feels like they're worried about being unable to say anything and defenseless as they are forced to work to support freeloaders and are killed at random and their children are taken from them (in a way). That's a lot of fear.

Trump makes social policies (because they don't cost him anything but a signature) to make them think he's got their best interests at heart. They're used to hardships so when they are told to tighten their belts they'll do it (up to a point, but with all the red meat thrown at them I don't know about where that point is anymore).

Trump doesn't care about what he says and they like that and that's partially why he doesn't care about what he says.

So it looks like Trump takes very easy actions and presents an appearance that requires little effort on his part to con his supporters. He doesn't seem to care about the long term consequences for his actions. I wonder if he's thought this through though. Sometimes I wonder if he's...
+A simple conman
+A useful idiot for the Russians
+Intentionally trying to destroy the country
+going to be connected to espionage for having a part in the hacking of a government official's (Hillary) emails to influence the 2016 election and perhaps as a result receive capital punishment
+aware that Al Capone did not go to jail for all the murders he was a part of, he went to jail for tax evasion (now think about the presidential pardon in terms of whether justice always strictly follows the law...)
+Not personally committing a crime does not absolve you from orchestrating it (hiring a hitman/accessory to murder)

I also wonder that if Trump receives jail time or capital punishment whether his supporters will actually start a civil war or not?
There is no emotion more useless in life than hate.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:55 am UTC

Trump's charitable foundation has apparently been forcibly disbanded, essentially for being a front to advance the Trump family's personal and political interests rather than a genuine charity. I trust nobody is shocked by this latter development.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby gd1 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:58 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Trump's charitable foundation has apparently been forcibly disbanded, essentially for being a front to advance the Trump family's personal and political interests rather than a genuine charity. I trust nobody is shocked by this latter development.


I was sufficiently disgusted by what bears do in forested areas previous to this that I have become jaded to this sort of thing.
There is no emotion more useless in life than hate.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby cphite » Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:34 pm UTC

gd1 wrote:So it looks like Trump takes very easy actions and presents an appearance that requires little effort on his part to con his supporters. He doesn't seem to care about the long term consequences for his actions.


True... but the same could be said about most politicians. It's actually one of the biggest incentives to go into politics for someone like Trump. Power, money and prestige for as little effort as possible...

I wonder if he's thought this through though. Sometimes I wonder if he's...
+A simple conman


I consider his being a conman to be a given. His entire career - both in business and now in politics - has centered around convincing people that he would do something for them in exchange for their money or other support. Dunno how simple... he's been remarkably successful at it. He's managed to get people to keep giving him money even after getting a reputation for cheating people. He managed to convince people to elect him president despite being himself.

+A useful idiot for the Russians


To be honest I don't buy the Russian puppet theory... There is no doubt that Russia interfered on his behalf, and there is no doubt that there was contact between his campaign and Russia... but there was also contact between the Clinton campaign and Russia. Personally, I think the motivation for Russia was more about subverting US confidence in our election process than anything about Trump directly.

+Intentionally trying to destroy the country


I don't buy this one either. I think that Trump actually believes his own bullshit. He believes that he's the smartest, most amazing person who ever was, and that he knows exactly what needs to be done. I think he knows that a lot of what he says is bullshit intended to grab power; but in his mind that's okay because it results in him being in a position to get things done.

+going to be connected to espionage for having a part in the hacking of a government official's (Hillary) emails to influence the 2016 election and perhaps as a result receive capital punishment


Meh. This one is just silly. He was making a joke. It was stupid and ill-advised, but still a joke. And even if we pretend for the sake of argument that he was serious, he was referring to a hack that had allegedly already taken place. Attempting to retroactively connect him to a crime - and call that espionage - is a huge, ridiculous reach, that would never stand in court.

+aware that Al Capone did not go to jail for all the murders he was a part of, he went to jail for tax evasion (now think about the presidential pardon in terms of whether justice always strictly follows the law...)


As much as I'd love to see him led off in handcuffs, the reality is that nobody has set forth evidence of an actual crime committed by him that would result in arrest, much less result in actual jail time.

The closest thing we have to an actual crime is his payments to two women to keep them quiet about affairs; but only if it constitutes election fraud. But the law in question actually exempts payments that would be made whether or not a person is running; and it's arguable that *any* wealthy businessman would pay hush money to keep an affair quiet. The law also requires that fraud be "knowingly" committed; which will obviously be leveraged by his defense just by pointing out the debate over whether what he did was actually illegal.

There is evidence that his team talked to Russia and that they lied to investigators about talking to Russia - which might result in some hard times for his team - but there is no evidence so far that *Trump* was directly involved in any of that, or even that he ordered the activity. Bear in mind, it doesn't matter how obvious it looks that he was - they need evidence that he was.

Don't get me wrong... I think there is about a 99.99% chance that the guy has done illegal stuff that absolutely should have him not only impeached and removed, but jailed. But unfortunately I think the odds are that none of it will ever be proven. Dude will serve the rest of his term, and frankly if the Democratic party doesn't have their shit together by 2020 there is a solid chance he serves a second term.

+Not personally committing a crime does not absolve you from orchestrating it (hiring a hitman/accessory to murder)


True. But another thing to remember is that when you're dealing with a president, the process is entirely political.

I also wonder that if Trump receives jail time or capital punishment whether his supporters will actually start a civil war or not?


What about when neither of those things happen?

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sardia
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:26 pm UTC

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/re ... ealing-it/
The affordable Care act has been mostly killed, but without much fanfare via a connected efforts of lots of smaller groups attacking it. The recent ruling overturning it is merely a capstone.
1. Fourteen states have not yet opted in to the Medicaid expansion, leaving about 4 million eligible Americans unable to enroll
2. Twenty-eight states have completely opted out of running local The Affordable Care Act exchanges, which means all enrollment processes are left up to the federal government.(aka less support for enrollment, less people have insurance)
3. Federal spending to promote ACA enrollment has been cut from $163 million to $20 million(same as problem 2)
4. Other stuff like no mandate tax, confusion by consumers if law is still on the books.
There's still some major parts of the law left, but I just wanted to remind people that the GOP hasn't given up on repeating the law, they just won't do it overtly in Congress.

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pogrmman
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby pogrmman » Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:47 pm UTC

I guess this is the right place to put this, but a Catholic diocese in South Texas is fighting against the border wall. Basically, the story is that CBP wants to temporarily control the land of the chapel that Mission, Texas is named for to survey. Supposedly, the first stage of wall construction won't cut it off from the rest of the city, but it looks like it is cut off from this proposed map. It's no surprise that the wall not a super popular proposal in the RGV -- the use of eminent domain to take land, splitting properties in two, cutting parks in half, and making it all together more difficult to move around. But the huge array of different groups in opposition is pretty stunning -- the church, individuals, wildlife centers. Even the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department has concerns about the project.

While the RGV is the leading illicit border crossing area in the country, from what I know about it, it's a very bi-national area. The handful of people I've met from that area all have family on both sides of the border. Generally, it's not like there's a huge cultural divide between South Texas and North Mexico. It's more of a gradual gradation between Mexico and the "anglo" parts of Texas. It's not like a border wall is gonna do all that much -- even though there's tons of CBP presence and checkpoints as far from the border as Uvalde, there's still miles and miles of undeveloped ranchland that go around said checkpoints. IIRC, most of the drugs that cross the border are already going through ports of entry like Laredo and Eagle Pass.

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CorruptUser
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:58 pm UTC

Welp, the US is pulling out of Syria. What shocks me the most is how hysterical the ostensibly pro peace people are about this.



sardia wrote:
1. Fourteen states have not yet opted in to the Medicaid expansion, leaving about 4 million eligible Americans unable to enroll


I can actually speak to the reasons why Maine itself refused to expand Medicaid. The biggest concern was that it would enable a lot of poor people from Boston and so forth to relocate to Maine. Greyhound therapy is an actual thing, after all. The second biggest concern is that the money is going to dry up as soon as everyone adopts the changes, no matter how much Obama promised it won't you simply can't get blood from a stone, and then the states will either have to provide the rest or cancel the program entirely.

bbluewi
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby bbluewi » Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:25 pm UTC

Related to the planned withdrawal from Syria, Defense Secretary Mattis is resigning, effective at the end of February. In his resignation letter, he stated that Trump needed someone who actually agreed with him:
Because you have the right to have a Secretary of Defense whose views are better aligned with yours on these and other subjects, I believe it is right for me to step down from my position

I don't know enough about how he's run things to say if this is good, bad, or neither, but it will definitely be...interesting.

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ObsessoMom
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby ObsessoMom » Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:41 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Welp, the US is pulling out of Syria. What shocks me the most is how hysterical the ostensibly pro peace people are about this.


Um, perhaps because leaving Syria's Kurds to be slaughtered -- and leaving all of our other allies to wonder when we'll screw them over, too -- is not very conducive to peace, in either the short or long terms?

In Secretary of Defense James Mattis's letter of resignation, he also said this:

One core belief I have always held is that our strength as a nation is inextricably linked to the strength of our unique and comprehensive system of alliances and partnerships. While the US remains the indispensable nation in the free world, we cannot protect our interests or serve that role effectively without maintaining strong alliances and showing respect to those allies. [...] Similarly, I believe we must be resolute and unambiguous in our approach to those whose strategic interests are increasingly in tension with ours. It is clear that China and Russia, for example, want to shape a world consistent with their authoritarian model -- gaining veto authority over other nations' economic, diplomatic, and security decisions -- to promote their own interests at the expense of their neighbors, America and our allies. [...] My views on treating allies with respect and also being clear-eyed about both malign actors and strategic competitors are strongly held and informed by over four decades of immersion in these issues. We must do everything possible to advance an international order that is most conducive to our security, prosperity and values, and we are strengthened in this effort by the solidarity of our alliances.


Translation: Screw your allies, and you soon won't have any. Also, who wants to be Secretary of Defense when the President doesn't listen to you?

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The Great Hippo
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby The Great Hippo » Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:59 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:The biggest concern was that it would enable a lot of poor people from Boston and so forth to relocate to Maine. Greyhound therapy is an actual thing, after all.
I sincerely hope you're wrong. Otherwise, it sounds like the problem here is that people in Maine don't understand 1) How moving works, 2) How poverty works, or 3) How Medicaid works.

Or what "Greyhound Therapy" even refers to, for that matter.


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