Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (N5)

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Mark_Cangila
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby Mark_Cangila » Sat Dec 22, 2018 3:47 pm UTC

I also had my power switched. I think it is more likely that there is a succesful doctor or RB then a scum withhold.

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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby MasterOfAll » Sat Dec 22, 2018 4:53 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
MasterOfAll wrote:I also have the ability to send separate messages (1 each) to approx. half of the remaining players each night.

Did you send 5 or 6 messages?
I sent 5 messages: to Sabrar, bessie, SuicideJunky, mpolo, plytho. Since I had already claimed to have this ability, I even included my own name (MoA), and also gave each recipient a unique codeword, in case that proves useful in sorting out shenanigans or such.
@SuicideJunky - did the anon message you receive not include the 'Hi, this is MoA' part?
@plytho - 'sup, Hippo?

I did not use the italics imposing post restriction ability last night.

wam wrote:Quick answers

Cop results

Bessie, boom, laser not the same alignment.

mpolo wrote:
Sabrar and Master of All are co-aligned, according to the power that I had last night.


??? Did 2 people put in the same role or very similar.
Either there are 2 very similar roles or one of you is lying. For now, I will go along with believing both results are genuine (and sane, not switched, etc).

Based on mpolo's result, I now feel very good about Sabrar's towniness. I also feel pretty good about mpolo for being very forthcoming about his result and that his ability was swapped.

For wam's targets, I'd put them in this order:

naughty
LaserGuy
bessie
BoomFrog
nice

Regarding wam, although I still find his reasoning for voting me extremely flimsy, I am feeling a bit better towards him for sharing his ability on D1 and results here early D2.

But, even more townpoints for BoomFrog for this post . . .
BoomFrog wrote:
wam wrote:I'm a cop variant. I pick 1/4 of the players alive (rpunded up) and get told if they are the same alignment or different.
Btw, try to pick all town players. If you get it right we can get a whole block of confirmed town. Much more useful then getting a vague votablepool that may one have only one scum out of 3. I won't advise on who specifically to pick since that would let scum know if they need to prioritize killing/RBing you or not.
since that exactly aligns with my thoughts on how wam's power should be used when I read his roleclaim.


I have no info on BoomFrog not having a vote or wam starting with 1 vote.


Mark_Cangila wrote:I also had my power switched. I think it is more likely that there is a succesful doctor or RB then a scum withhold.
This is an interesting post. The likeliest thing is that you now have mpolo's cop ability, and he has the ability you started with. But why would you want this to be public knowledge before you had a chance to use it? Unless you ended up with a different role and there are multiple players with new roles now? But, still, I question what the purpose of this post was.

I do agree that it is unlikely that scum withheld the NK, because why give town with a bunch of power roles additional time to use those abilities?

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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby SuicideJunkie » Sat Dec 22, 2018 5:51 pm UTC

Re: NK shenanigans.
As I figure, successful RB/Doctor would be a 1 in 11 chance, unless there is a shotgun RB/Doc involved. There are shotgun cops it seems, so that's not totally implausible. Multiple RB/Docs would also improve odds independently of each other.
A scum fakeout on the other hand would have a ~8 in 11 chance of the RB hitting town, adjusted by how good people are at guessing D1.
Scum not wanting to let power stack up is a good counterpoint.

Re: Magic vote shenanigans
This might be multiple powers, or it could be a single power to force somebody to vote a certain way: IE: Boom's vote goes against wam today.

Re: Power shenanigans
Rather than two shotgun cops, it could be just the power to use someone else's powers every day, and that there are only 10 "real" powers in the game. Hidden mechanics and all that.

Gotta read back and check to see if the claims are consistent for the swap.
The swapmaster seems like a good scum power, and allow them to steal the good stuff for scumbuddies when claims come out.

Re: Message
Not quite; it was "Hello, this is MoA" specifically. Was that a test?

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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby BoomFrog » Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:20 pm UTC

I probably won't be able to post or read much until Tuesday or Wednesday. Quote ping me if you need a specific reply. I haven't read anything from D2 yet.
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby plytho » Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:03 pm UTC

Hippo checks out. That’s what I received from “MoA”.

That means MoA wasn’t blocked. (or there’s some compex shenanigans going on involving MoA’s partner sending messages in his name)
He also wasn’t redirected (would be funny if someone received all the messages)

Wam and mpolo also likely weren’t blocked (or they’re taking high risks with their claims)

@SuicideJunkie: your odds assume total random targeting, which is clearly not the case with roleblockers and particularly doctors.

@MasterOfAll: how did you pick your targets?
Also, BoomFrog is quite capable of providing townie logic as scum.

If mpolo is scum he knows his power has been switched so he needs to provide a result at some point. The result he provided is quite useful though. I’d expect him to pick more obvious townies as a result if he’s scum. Now he kind of cleared the top suspect remaining from D1. The only possibility for scum mpolo is that he’s trying to protect MoA, but that seems like a high risk endeavour, given there’s another cop ability. So not likely scum, which extends to Sabrar and MoA.

I think town!Mark shouldn’t have claimed. I’m wondering if a Mark-mpolo switch makes more sense for scum or town to perform. I think as a power it’s more useful to scum than to town. They can take stronger powers from town and give their own weakest powers away, and just generally control and know who has which power. Scum targeting two townies makes less sense, I think. I also don’t see why a townie would target Mark and mpolo specifically.

So I’m keeping my scum read on Mark, although I do wonder why he claimed.

I have some reading to do on the other six (don’t know when I’ll get to it), but for now:

vote:Mark

Would like to hear from LaserGuy and Sabrar.
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby SuicideJunkie » Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:23 pm UTC

Given the power shenanigans I definitely overreacted to Wam's claim.
From what I see, Madge had some pretty controversial opinions, but the two of us were the only ones who liked Wam.
Mpolo distinctly lacks opinion on wam? The only time mpolo posted 'wam' was in the player signups it seems.

Mark has reviews almost as bad as Wam, with Mpolo and Madge support.
Mpolo was rated pretty average, but lacked negative opinions?
Madge had a lot of opinions going against the group's average.

I'm not sure if I'm searching effectively, but Mpolo seems to be giving tentative +ve reads to a subset of players, while mark and Sabrar are giving -ve reads to the remaining players; little overlap with Mpolo?
Sabrar did ask for reads lists without a clear one themselves? Still popular.

Moody seems to be the most controversial, but their biggest detractors were Wam, MoA, Mark and Madge. +town points to Moody.

All the votes after me on Madge came from very townie players. Moody being the sketchiest but as above, disliked in turn by the sketchy or nonconformist people. Not good for town smells.


Plytho:
"Adjusted by how good people are at guessing D1" should apply to all factors, yes. I expect the Mafia side would be at an advantage D1 since they can see read lists and know we screwed up the vote so our guesses aren't that great this game.
The raw number are for random, but I can't really give anything else as a starting point.

Scum targeting two townies for power swapping makes a fair bit of sense to me. For starters; if you think it doesn't make sense, then you'll think that one of those two townies is scum. If you do think it makes sense, you'll suspect the one getting the stronger power. My two cents on it is that the outcry about powers changing will also make us reveal those powers.

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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby plytho » Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:36 pm UTC

SuicideJunkie wrote:Scum targeting two townies for power swapping makes a fair bit of sense to me. For starters; if you think it doesn't make sense, then you'll think that one of those two townies is scum. If you do think it makes sense, you'll suspect the one getting the stronger power. My two cents on it is that the outcry about powers changing will also make us reveal those powers.
The underlined is too convoluted. I don't see scum switching two townie powers just because then we'll think one of them is scum. We don't even necessarily find out who's powers are swapped and what they are, so suspecting the stronger power makes no sense. Also, scum don't know which power they're taking so they might gain the weaker power.
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby bessie » Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:54 pm UTC

SuicideJunkie wrote:Why did so many people follow my vote of all people?
See here:
bessie wrote:(3) Madge has a scummy meta and is capable of earning votes without your help so don’t give yourself so much credit;
And if you never really wanted to lynch Madge, why didn’t you switch?

SuicideJunkie wrote:No NK is clearly scum hijinks. What is the typical goal of that? Making a roleblocker believe they guessed the scum assigned to do the NK?
Trying to decide if this is newbie town or newbie scum.

Some possibilities for no NK (in no particular order):
1. Mafia (serial killer, town vig, etc) withheld.
2. Killer was roleblocked, jailed, etc.
3. Target was doctored, jailed, rolestopped, etc.
4. Target commuted.
5. Target was bulletproof.
6. The kill is delayed (poison, arsonist, etc).
7. The kill was redirected to Madge.

SuicideJunkie wrote:Also, it is too bad Madge didn't cast the deciding vote. Could have saved herself.
Last night I would have thought this unlikely. Now I think wam didn’t care which of Madge or MasterOfAll was lynched.

plytho wrote:
bessie wrote:wam on the other hand. . . Nice safe pseudo bus there wam.
That did not look like a bus to me. I disagree that it was safe.
Look at it in context. He could move off Madge safely and on to scumbuddy!MoA, as it was after official deadline, mpolo was done, MoA could switch to Madge for self preservation, SJ plytho moody had a chance to switch from Madge to MoA and didn’t, wam could always switch back if he saw Madge to log on to “avoid shenanigans”, etc .

plytho wrote:ninja: interesting result from wam. I would have picked Sabrar instead of LaserGuy, though.
Out of those three I'm most suspicious of bessie. But none of them are to be underestimated.
Do you not see anything else interesting about his results?

moody7277 wrote:
bessie wrote:So moody, why the conditional FoS of me?

The condition wasn't met insofar as the wagon you and wam were apparently trying to steer the vote away from turned out to be town.
Oh, so now you don’t mind that wam tied the vote? This is unexpected in light of your shenanigans comment, and your previous concern.

MasterOfAll wrote:Regarding wam, although I still find his reasoning for voting me extremely flimsy, I am feeling a bit better towards him for sharing his ability on D1 and results here early D2.
Same question to you as I had to plytho.

BoomFrog wrote: I probably won't be able to post or read much until Tuesday or Wednesday. Quote ping me if you need a specific reply. I haven't read anything from D2 yet.
1. What did you post after deadline? Can you post it now so we can all see it?
2. Do you have any night results you wish to claim?
3. Please answer the above in separate posts and make three additional posts.

Re power switching. As LaserGuy theorized yesterday, a three person mafia team already potentially knows six powers. wam and MoA claimed. Madge was probably dead and would flip. If the night kill was successful, there would be another flip. If they swap two townies, they would likely claim something. So I can see scum swapping two townies just to get more role reveals, and to cause confusion. I can’t see scum swapping with town unless they know it is a power they want (like a vig) or a power they want to take away from town (like a cop). I can’t see why town would swap anyone at this point (actually I can see Madge doing it), so there’s a possibility that it’s a hidden mechanic.


D2 post count:
Spoiler:
bessie: 2
BoomFrog: 1
LaserGuy: 0
Mark_Cangila: 2
MasterOfAll: 1
moody7277: 2
mpolo:2
plytho: 4
Sabrar: 0
SuicideJunkie: 4
wam: 3

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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby MasterOfAll » Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:44 am UTC

SuicideJunkie wrote:Re: Message
Not quite; it was "Hello, this is MoA" specifically. Was that a test?
No, not a test. But your earlier post made it sound to me like you didn't know who the message came from, and so I thought that maybe the part of the message where I identified myself got stripped for some reason. So, thanks for clearing it up, Coyote.


plytho wrote:@MasterOfAll: how did you pick your targets?
Also, BoomFrog is quite capable of providing townie logic as scum.
I sent a message to the townier players from my list, but not including BoomFrog, who was my most townie read, and therefore a likely NK target, in my book.

Your comment about BoomFrog is noted, but that doesn't change my view that he is likely town.


@bessie - sorry, I'm not picking up whatever you are hinting at regarding wam's result.


Regarding my message, mpolo already confirmed that he received it, by using the word 'eagle' in his previous post. Clearly the message also got through to SuicideJunky and to plytho.
@bessie, Sabrar - did you receive the message?


Here is my current Naughty to Nice list:
Naughty
moody
Mark_Cangila
LaserGuy
wam
bessie
SuicideJunky
plytho
BoomFrog
mpolo
Sabrar
Nice

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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby MasterOfAll » Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:46 am UTC

I just noticed that I was misspelling SuicideJunkie. Apologies, SJ!

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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby moody7277 » Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:39 am UTC

Well, based on several points bessie made, she is really pessimistic about wam. If he like I missed plytho's vote for Madge, he may have figured he was doing more to muddy the vote than otherwise. bessie's poistion in the late day flurry didn't have as much leverage, so it's correspondingly less indicative, although she is being oddly sensitive about it.

The main point of my post is my night result. I made a list of people as follows guessing town or not town:

town
LaserGuy
Boomfrog
Sabrar
plytho
bessie
mpolo
SuicideJunkie

not-town
MoA
Mark_Cangila
wam

From the mod, I know the list has three mistakes on it. Folding in the other claimed investigation claims, we have:

naive read, wam and mpolo both town:

mistakes: wam listed as scum, MoA listed as scum, someone listed as town.

conclusions:
--Mark definitely scum
--very likely some godfather role that didn't register as a mistake by being listed as nice in order for the 9-3 setup
--GF might be in the list wam gave, although why the GF would mislead in my investigation but not his is confusing

scum!wam, town!mpolo:

mistakes: MoA listed as scum, not immediately clear what 2 and 3 are.

conclusions:
--handy town block of Sabrar, MoA, mpolo

town!wam, scum!mpolo:

mistakes: wam listed as scum, mpolo listed as town, whichever of wam's list isn't town.

conclusions:
--one scum in {MoA, Mark}
--one scum in {bessie, boom, LaserGuy}
--we end up with 4 non-town, which means we most likely started with 8-3-1

paranoid read, wam and mpolo scum:

mistakes: mpolo listed as town, not immediately clear what 2 and 3 are.

conclusions:
--more difficult because of discarding the extra info

I'm including the paranoid read for the sake of completeness as I do not give it a strong possibility.

Vote: Mark
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby BoomFrog » Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:56 am UTC

bessie wrote:[
BoomFrog wrote: I probably won't be able to post or read much until Tuesday or Wednesday. Quote ping me if you need a specific reply. I haven't read anything from D2 yet.
1. What did you post after deadline? Can you post it now so we can all see it?
I've PMed mods to see how to handle this. I don't want to gain any advantage from breaking the rules.
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby BoomFrog » Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:57 am UTC

2. Do you have any night results you wish to claim?

No result I'd like to claim besides the public result.
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby BoomFrog » Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:58 am UTC

3. Please answer the above in separate posts and make three additional posts.
Posting restrictions are supposed to make the game more fun.
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby BoomFrog » Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:58 am UTC

But this game is about experimenting.
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby BoomFrog » Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:59 am UTC

So it was worth trying
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby SuicideJunkie » Sun Dec 23, 2018 3:33 am UTC

Bessie:
I did have Madge in my scum 3. I was surprised that she got other votes last minute.
As I explained at the time, switching didn't make sense, since I still thought madge was scummy.

Jailing to block effects on the target? That explains the thing in B99.
Nonstandard faction kills? *Takes notes for Golden Gun*
I'm not sure how it would make sense to redirect a kill to someone who is already dead tho.

Another reason to switch blindly is if their scumbuddy rolled a weak power and random is probably better.
I'll have to leave the estimates of likelihood to the experts.

I confirm the Coyote, for what that's worth.

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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby LaserGuy » Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:40 am UTC

Sorry I haven't been around. Been very busy.

@mods, FWIW I would appreciate the extension a bit past Christmas.

D1 lynch scramble was interesting. Streamlining the votes as of here:
Spoiler:
bessie votes wam (4 way tie)
wam votes MoA (puts MoA at 3)
moody votes Madge (ties the vote)
plytho votes Mark (Mark at 2)
wam votes Mark (Mark at ties the vote with 3 with Madge)
BoomFrog votes mpolo (Mark at 2)
BoomFrog votes wam (wam at 3)
Mark votes wam (wam is leading with 4 votes)
wam votes Madge (Madge at 3)
Boomfrog votes MoA (wam at 3, MoA at 2)
plytho votes Madge (Madge at 4)
bessie votes MoA (MoA at 3)
wam votes MoA (MoA at 4)


Some thoughts here:
-Individually wam's votes feel scummiest. He seems to be consistently pushing up leading wagons rather than really voting for principled reasons.

-BoomFrog's voting seems consistent with being a buddy of Mark. BoomFrog and Mark both push up wam after Mark is threatened, and BoomFrog unvoting Mark to a neutral mpolo vote removes a lot of pressure there. BoomFrog jumping back to MoA here is a bit strange.
BoomFrog wrote:That's a good sign. For the record I think that MoA or Madge are most likely at this point, but I'm not feeling confident about any of our choices.

Unvote wam
vote Master of All

@Boom: Why did you move to MoA here after feeling that his wagon was bad here?

-Independently of BoomFrog, Mark's vote on wam also looks pretty bad. Earlier he liked wam's content and his vote here has a very OMGUS feel to it to me.
Mark_Cangila wrote:However, content wise I really find Wam as the scummiest. His supposed scum slip which doesn't make sense, and his weird early MoA vote.
Vote: Wam

@Mark: Why do you think wam thinking something in your content was a scumslip would make him scummy? You said that you liked wam's early content. Why is his MoA vote suddenly scummy?


On night results:
mpolo wrote:Sabrar and Master of All are co-aligned, according to the power that I had last night.

wam wrote:Bessie, boom, laser not the same alignment.

moody wrote: I made a list of people as follows guessing town or not town

I'm skeptical that all of these powers can exist and be Town and not have this game be pathologically breakable. I like moody's analysis and this feels very Town coming from him, so of the three I think this is probably the most trustworthy.


Current reads are roughly:
Town
LaserGuy
moody
SuicideJunkie
Sabrar
plytho
bessie
MoA

mpolo

BoomFrog
wam
Mark
Scum

Not sure about the ordering of bottom three. I don't think wam is co-aligned with either Boom or Mark, but if Mark is scum decent chance Boom is too.

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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby Sabrar » Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:23 am UTC

I did not receive a message from anyone. For the time being I have nothing to share about any potential night results.

I am still waiting on some answers from the mods which is irksome.

plytho wrote:@Sabrar: do you really expect that kind or early mutual bussing between wam and MoA?
I expect wam to be able to bus hard.

plytho wrote:Ugh, I have this nagging feeling that there's at most 1 scum in this group of usual suspects and I can't figure out who.
This pings me as having too much info.

@BoomFrog: why have you not reacted at all to my points about the 'easy' wagon? Or about the voting block? Or about whose lynch would give us info? In fact you totally ignored me...

bessie wrote:You never will allow Madge to be lynched, will you? And she bet on that, right in her opening post, that you would read both her and me in relation to each other; that I would attack her regardless of my alignment and her content, and you would naturally view her as the injured party in need of a defender.
You're stuck in 2017 mindset, I have voted Madge off the island both as Town (Newbie) and as scum (Chaos).

wam wrote:Right so was hoping to avoid this, claim time.

I'm a cop variant. I pick 1/4 of the players alive (rpunded up) and get told if they are the same alignment or different.
Claiming Cop in closed game under pressure is standard scum-tactic (see Vicarin in WoT3).

BoomFrog wrote:I won't advise on who specifically to pick since that would let scum know if they need to prioritize killing/RBing you or not.
Why do you think this did not happen?

SuicideJunkie wrote:I am now 85%+ convinced wam is town.
Why?

plytho wrote:ninja: interesting result from wam. I would have picked Sabrar instead of LaserGuy, though.
Out of those three I'm most suspicious of bessie. But none of them are to be underestimated.
Why do you accept wam's result at face-value?

moody7277 wrote:town
LaserGuy
Boomfrog
Sabrar
plytho
bessie
mpolo
SuicideJunkie

not-town
MoA
Mark_Cangila
wam

From the mod, I know the list has three mistakes on it.

Suppose moody is Town (which I believe he is) and that nobody messed with his results (which is very likely).
Given how math works 3 mistakes means it can't be 8-3 due to parity. 2 scum is way too few so we're looking at 7-4 or 7-3-1 with an Indie (or traitor I suppose).
This means (again due to math) that his not-town list has 2 correct players in it with 1 mistake and there are 2 non-towns in his town list.
MoA is basically confirmed Town (unless mpolo is his buddy (not likely)), so now we lynch wam and tomorrow Mark. Or vice versa, I don't really care. D4 we go probably after BoomFrog, D5 we can re-analyse the voting depending on who was indie.

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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby SuicideJunkie » Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:16 am UTC

As to why Re: wam; the claim sounded legit and a very townie formulation. I can't say more.
Due to nightly power shenanigans and upon further consideration that powers don't technically have to be useful to the player, I no longer believe as stongly.

I also am aware that I seem to be the only one left aside from wam with a non-negative opinion on wam, and am thus likely wrong about it.

PS:
@MoA
No worries about the name spelling other than search issues.

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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:20 am UTC

I made a small mistake in Madge's ability (now fixed): it only reflected powers targeting her.
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby plytho » Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:25 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:I did not receive a message from anyone.
That means one of Sabrar and MoA is lying or someone messed with the results. (likely the latter)
Sabrar wrote:Why do you accept wam's result at face-value?
I don't. That's why I didn't include them in my previous post. I do have a gut desire to believe them because I like results. I would also expect Wam to low-key bus a buddy in his result. So I'm wary of Wam, but do think his result is likely accurate.

LaserGuy wrote:plytho votes Madge (Madge at 4)
I didn't check everything but this bit is wrong. I put Madge at 5.
LaserGuy wrote:@mods, FWIW I would appreciate the extension a bit past Christmas.
I believe that's the case. It's a 7 day D2 so we have plenty of time after Christmas.

I like LaserGuy and Sabrar's points on BoomFrog. Parts of BoomFrog's behavior have been pinging me too. (the move away from Mark, trying to link me to Mark, and his early prod for not responding to him taking it easy)

BoomFrog wrote:No result I'd like to claim besides the public result.
Are you claiming that to be part of your power?

Will do my own analysis of moody's result later, although I don't expect Sabrar or moody to get it wrong.

bessie wrote:Do you not see anything else interesting about his results?
I don't know what you mean.
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby mpolo » Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:34 am UTC

O.K. I have now at least read the thread.

Looser deadline due to Christmas would be appreciated here too

There was some discussion about win-cons concerning Mark_Cangila that was starting to look bad for Mark, though his explanation at the end was reasonable. I may have some residual scummy feeling for him, though.

Moody has MoA in his "not town" pile. My (previous) power specifically gives me whether (a) both are not town / or both are town [this is a Town result for the power] or (b) exactly one is town and exactly one is not town [this is a Not-Town result for the power]. I got a Town result, hence, if MoA is in the "not town" pile, Sabrar has to be in the "not town" pile as well. (Or you don't believe me, of course.)

I did receive a note from MoA. If I wasn't supposed to receive this, I have hopefully provided him with the necessary information to work that out.

The role-switch is described in flavor as someone stealing my backpack with cop utensils and replacing it with another backpack. No idea if that's the result of a power or a hidden game mechanic. The power that I received would be useful for either town or scum, but involves a bit of gambiting.

Unusual that wam would have such a similar power to mine, but this is a submitted powers game, so it is plausible.
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby wam » Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:36 am UTC

Lots of posts while I was asleep.

Was thinking about the vote situation as I see it options below.

1) someone took booms vote and stuck it on me all day.
2) the vote on me is linked to Bessie post counting (I had the most)
3) completely seperate powers but the vote removal power is probably held by scum as I can't see town reasons for giving it to boom.
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby wam » Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:50 am UTC

@SJ town do guessing the NK target is reasonably common some players much better than others.

I agree that all 3 powers claimed might be game breaking. I think Moody's post and explanation is reasonable. Need to think about how best to overlap the powers. Also if I was modding I would have changed the
Sanity of some given the number or given the actual power to scum.

I agree with sabrars logic here
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=125666&start=240#p4419265

Which means from my perspective Mark and MOA must be scum.

vote Mark
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby plytho » Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:03 pm UTC

wam wrote:2) the vote on me is linked to Bessie post counting (I had the most)
Not true.
wam wrote:Which means from my perspective Mark and MOA must be scum.
what's your opinion on mpolo?
wam wrote:3) completely seperate powers but the vote removal power is probably held by scum as I can't see town reasons for giving it to boom.
"giving it to boom" is a weird way to express this
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby plytho » Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:03 pm UTC

could we get a deadline clock?

I believe deadline is three days past Christmas now, which is fine for me.
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby plytho » Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:33 pm UTC

The one gap in Sabrar's logic is the possibility of a godfather (which would register as 9-2 while being 8-3) other than that it checks out.

mpolo wrote:The power that I received would be useful for either town or scum, but involves a bit of gambiting.

@mpolo: what's been claimed about the role switching power leads me to believe you have the power Mark had last night. This could lead you to insights about Mark and perhaps his target. (no need to share anything unless you think it is beneficial)
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby wam » Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:34 pm UTC

@ plytho had missed you in that list yep I was wrong.

I'm torn. Trying to get my head round the permutations of possible sanitizer false claims etc.

Targeting would have been a better phrase but I had just woken up.
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby Mark_Cangila » Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:58 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
Mark_Cangila wrote:However, content wise I really find Wam as the scummiest. His supposed scum slip which doesn't make sense, and his weird early MoA vote.
Vote: Wam

@Mark: Why do you think wam thinking something in your content was a scumslip would make him scummy? You said that you liked wam's early content. Why is his MoA vote suddenly scummy?



As I said, the list you are refering to was done at night, and is not indicative of my reads at any point.

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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby Mark_Cangila » Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:00 pm UTC

Also, I didn't realize Mpolo had claimed. I'm really stupid. I'm probably getting NKed tonight

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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby plytho » Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:25 pm UTC

Mark_Cangila wrote:Also, I didn't realize Mpolo had claimed. I'm really stupid. I'm probably getting NKed tonight

You said you also had your power switched, so you did see mpolo's post. You're probably not getting NK'd tonight.
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby bessie » Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:00 pm UTC

MasterOfAll wrote:@bessie, Sabrar - did you receive the message?
I didn’t realize you wanted an immediate claim.

moody7277 wrote:Well, based on several points bessie made, she is really pessimistic about wam. If he like I missed plytho's vote for Madge, he may have figured he was doing more to muddy the vote than otherwise. bessie's poistion in the late day flurry didn't have as much leverage, so it's correspondingly less indicative, although she is being oddly sensitive about it.
Why are you speculating, and making up an excuse to explain wam’s end of day vote shenanigans? Why not, hmm, ask wam to explain himself? This is very unlike you moody.

BoomFrog wrote: Posting restrictions are supposed to make the game more fun.
I agree completely, and I fully support posting restrictions for the sake of the spirit of the game, or as an actual requirement (power/bonus/penalty related). I think some of the most fun games (at least for me) were in part because of posting restrictions. But there are some limitations as to what I would support. I absolutely do not approve of any posting restriction that hinders someone’s ability to participate in the game, like say for example, something that required a player to have the lowest post count at the end of the day (contrast with the sample town role pm in the OP, which encourages participation).

FoS anyone that still doesn’t get it, and anyone that appears to be deliberately keeping their post count low.

SuicideJunkie wrote:I'm not sure how it would make sense to redirect a kill to someone who is already dead tho.
There are hints in the mod content that perhaps Madge’s fate was not fully sealed until end of night. But regardless of that, it would make great sense for a town redirector to target someone scummy and redirect them to Madge (if the mods allowed it).

MasterOfAll wrote:@bessie - sorry, I'm not picking up whatever you are hinting at regarding wam's result.
plytho wrote:I don't know what you mean.
Do you not find it interesting that this is a great result for scum, and exactly the result BoomFrog was trying to avoid here?
BoomFrog wrote:Btw, try to pick all town players. If you get it right we can get a whole block of confirmed town. Much more useful then getting a vague votablepool that may one have only one scum out of 3.
It would take three lynches (or less depending on NK) to confirm or disprove wam’s result.

wam wrote:1) someone took booms vote and stuck it on me all day.
2) the vote on me is linked to Bessie post counting (I had the most)
3) completely seperate powers but the vote removal power is probably held by scum as I can't see town reasons for giving it to boom.
1. ModBold says BoomFrog is voteless. I would expect Bold to be the truth, even in a moderately bastard game (and per game specific rule #5).
2. My post counting/posting is for informational purposes only and in itself is unrelated to any game mechanics (as far as I know). The post counts themselves may have something to do with game mechanics, don’t know haven’t thought of it much. [/sarcasm]
3. Be creative. In other words, why do you assume everyone views BoomFrog as confirmed town?


Unofficial votals:

wam (1) : Finger of Mod
Mark_Cangila (3) : plytho, moody7277, wam

Not voting : bessie, BoomFrog, LaserGuy, Mark_Cangila, MasterOfAll, mpolo, Sabrar, SuicideJunkie

D2 post count:
Spoiler:
bessie: 3
BoomFrog: 6
LaserGuy: 1
Mark_Cangila: 4
MasterOfAll: 3
moody7277: 3
mpolo: 3
plytho: 9
Sabrar: 1
SuicideJunkie: 6
wam: 6

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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby mpolo » Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:51 pm UTC

I somehow missed that Mark had his power switched as well. I think I know who is target was, and suspect that he was trying to do something townie in that targeting (that is, he used the "townier" half of the two option power). I suppose that targeting would work theoretically work for scum as well, though, due to additional information that scum has. However, the townie interpretation seems likelier. That at least pushes Mark_Cangila over the midpoint to "neutral leaning town" for me.
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby moody7277 » Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:28 pm UTC

bessie wrote:Why not, hmm, ask wam to explain himself? This is very unlike you moody.


Not asking people a lot of questions is unlike me? Have you been paying attention? :? :lol:

Right now I'm working from a trusted core of me, plytho, SJ, and Sabrar (that's right, I'm bringing back the shameful lemma 0). YMMV
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby wam » Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:36 pm UTC

@Bessie and any other.

I was genuinely trying to swig the lynch to MOA.
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby bessie » Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:07 pm UTC

moody7277 wrote:Not asking people a lot of questions is unlike me? Have you been paying attention? :? :lol:
Why not quote the whole thing moody? Dismissing, and then making excuses for another person’s vote shenanigans is very unlike you. But perhaps your style is evolving. So is it also now acceptable for me to game the game, or perhaps use the role-pm-gambit? :P :lol:

[/sarcasm]

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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby bessie » Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:11 pm UTC

bessie wrote:3. Be creative. In other words, why do you assume everyone views BoomFrog as confirmed town?
wam, you forgot to answer this.

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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:16 pm UTC

"You, squire, send word to the castle that they should bring the Christmas Banquet out to yonder hilltop. It will make a good view! Perhaps we will have roast mouse with it..."

Votals:

Mark_Cangila(3): plytho, moody7277, wam
wam(1): None

Not voting: LaserGuy, BoomFrog, Sabrar, bessie, Mark_Cangila, mpolo, SuicideJunkie, MasterOfAll

With 11 alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch.

Provisional deadline is 9pm UTC, Friday, 28th December 2018. Deadline timer: https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/c ... nt=cursive

If people would prefer a 24 hour extension, please let me know at least 48 hours before the deadline, in thread or by PM.
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D2)

Postby plytho » Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:08 pm UTC

bessie wrote:
MasterOfAll wrote:@bessie - sorry, I'm not picking up whatever you are hinting at regarding wam's result.
plytho wrote:I don't know what you mean.
Do you not find it interesting that this is a great result for scum, and exactly the result BoomFrog was trying to avoid here?
Not particularly. Yes, scum would likely provide such a result over a three-aligned result. That does not mean town couldn't get this result.

BoomFrog wrote:Btw, try to pick all town players. If you get it right we can get a whole block of confirmed town. Much more useful then getting a vague votablepool that may one have only one scum out of 3.
It would take three lynches (or less depending on NK) to confirm or disprove wam’s result.
You can do it with one if that's all you care about.

bessie wrote:I absolutely do not approve of any posting restriction that hinders someone’s ability to participate in the game, like say for example, something that required a player to have the lowest post count at the end of the day (contrast with the sample town role pm in the OP, which encourages participation).

FoS anyone that still doesn’t get it, and anyone that appears to be deliberately keeping their post count low.
You can fos me if you want because I'm not entirely sure I get it.

Here's what I think you think:
Sabrar has a post restriction he's not allowed to talk about.
That restriction is to have the lowest post count at the end of the day.
Post restrictions aren't related to the power or role of a player, they are their own separate thing.
You're looking for people limiting Sabrar's ability to post and prodding them to allow more Sabrar posts and to get reads off responses.
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