2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

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2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby The Snide Sniper » Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:24 pm UTC

Image
Title text: It turns out that saying "Oh, so THAT'S why they call it Boxing Day" is a good way to get punched a second time.

Hey, this was my joke!
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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby moody7277 » Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:33 pm UTC

Of course next year, there'll be one more Eve onto that for a leap year.
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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby cellocgw » Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:09 pm UTC

Gotta be a stupid joke about an online video game, or a Jessica Chastain movie in there somewhere.

If I had the time, I'd mod the original art so deep in that sequence, one of the "Eve"s is replaced with a "Lilith" .
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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby ucim » Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:31 pm UTC

Nah. That's just how the NSA spies on our electronic Christmas cards.

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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby richP » Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:18 pm UTC

In a similar vein, this is also the time of year where I end up getting reminded of Perez Hilton (one of those inexplicable Internet celebrities). I'm assuming he took his moniker from the still-inexplicably-famous Paris Hilton, but the name "Perez" is actually Biblical (Jesus's great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather (give or take a few greats).
Consider it an Easter egg for Catholics who are going to church tonight, at least those who get the "long form" readings.

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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby Brilliand » Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:26 pm UTC

I don't think it actually works this way.

"Christmas eve" means "Christmas evening". A day used to be considered to last from sunset to sunset, so the "eve" of a day would be the nighttime part of that day (which was before the daytime part of that day).

Nowadays, we consider a day to include some of the night after it, so any day that includes part of "Christmas eve" in it is also "Christmas eve". This is a bit of a stretch, but it's commonplace now.

So what is "Christmas eve eve"? It's either "the evening of the evening", which is the same as just one "eve", or it's the whole stretch applied repeatedly (round to the earlier day according to the old timekeeping, then round to the earlier day according to the new timekeeping, over and over)... which is more of a stretch for every step you take.

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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby Tormuse » Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:30 pm UTC

Someone once proposed that December 23rd, the day before Christmas Eve, should be called "Christmas Adam."

Because it comes before Eve and is generally unsatisfying. :P
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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby Showsni » Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:59 pm UTC

Brilliand wrote:I don't think it actually works this way.

"Christmas eve" means "Christmas evening". A day used to be considered to last from sunset to sunset, so the "eve" of a day would be the nighttime part of that day (which was before the daytime part of that day).

Nowadays, we consider a day to include some of the night after it, so any day that includes part of "Christmas eve" in it is also "Christmas eve". This is a bit of a stretch, but it's commonplace now.


Yes, I was going to say that. Technically "eve" doesn't mean the day before, but just the evening of the day. So Christmas Eve Eve is just a tautology and doesn't change the day you are referring to.

That said, does anyone know which are the 12 days of Christmas? We know they run from Christmas to Epiphany, or Twelfth Night. So if the first day of Christmas is the day of the 25th (and its preceding night, Christmas Eve, is the first night of Christmas), then it runs up to the 5th of January, and Twelfth Night is the night between the 4th and the 5th. That can't be right. So the first day of Christmas is Boxing Day (and the first night is the night after Christmas Eve, from the 25th to the 26th); and then the twelfth day is the 6th, and Twelfth Night is Epiphany Eve (from the 5th to the 6th). But then Christmas Day isn't part of Christmas? That can't be right either!

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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby Pfhorrest » Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:05 am UTC

According to Bob and Doug, the Twelve Days of Christmas are Christmas, Christmas Eve, New Year's, New Year's Eve, Wrestling Boxing Day, and then there's two Saturdays and Sundays in there which makes nine, and the other three are the Mystery Days.
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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby Soupspoon » Tue Dec 25, 2018 1:16 am UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:According to Bob and Doug, the Twelve Days of Christmas are Christmas, Christmas Eve, New Year's, New Year's Eve, Wrestling Boxing Day, and then there's two Saturdays and Sundays in there which makes nine, and the other three are the Mystery Days.

As you get Christmas Shoppers on the run-up to Christmas, then it is on the run-up to those last three that we get the fabled Mystery Shoppers, then?

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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby Mutex » Tue Dec 25, 2018 11:12 am UTC

Merry Boxing Day Eve, everyone!

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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby xtifr » Tue Dec 25, 2018 8:28 pm UTC

Showsni wrote: Technically "eve" doesn't mean the day before, but just the evening of the day.

Didn't mean. Once it only meant the evening of the day, but now it also (in certain contexts) means the day before. Because language changes. (Anyone who disagrees is welcome to explain why they no longer write or speak like the author of Beowulf.) So in modern English, Dec. 23 can indeed be described as Christmas Eve Eve. It may be silly, but there are some fairly simple historical reasons for this odd shift in meaning, as mentioned by Brilliand.
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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby GlassHouses » Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:10 am UTC

xtifr wrote:Anyone who disagrees is welcome to explain why they no longer write or speak like the author of Beowulf.

That's easy: because everyone sucks at English nowadays.

Also, Italy is a country full of people who speak really, really terrible Latin. :D

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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby SalSomer » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:39 am UTC

Well, I don’t know about y’all, but the only language I speak is PIE. I just don’t bother too much with the cases, my pronunciation is a little lax, and I guess I’ve borrowed some words from Semitic and a few other languages along the way.

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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby Reka » Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:44 pm UTC

Showsni wrote:That said, does anyone know which are the 12 days of Christmas? We know they run from Christmas to Epiphany, or Twelfth Night. So if the first day of Christmas is the day of the 25th (and its preceding night, Christmas Eve, is the first night of Christmas), then it runs up to the 5th of January, and Twelfth Night is the night between the 4th and the 5th. That can't be right. So the first day of Christmas is Boxing Day (and the first night is the night after Christmas Eve, from the 25th to the 26th); and then the twelfth day is the 6th, and Twelfth Night is Epiphany Eve (from the 5th to the 6th). But then Christmas Day isn't part of Christmas? That can't be right either!

https://english.stackexchange.com/quest ... anuary-6th

(Good Lord, that was 8 years ago.)

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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby pienapp1e » Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:28 am UTC

Did anybody actually count the number of eves, or is it assumed that there are a set number? Knowing Mr. Munroe's prediliction for completion/correctness/exactitude/thoroughness, I'm positive he put in exactly as many as needed :)

And get outa my head, pfhorrest lol, especially since i heard that song 3x today :D

Merry boxing day too :)

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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby roelst » Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:11 am UTC

Being the bored me, I counted all the eve's. It's a total 364 of them. Feel free to review it, but given the fact that I counted it again to check myself you probably don't have to.

That makes me wonder: why is the second day of last year's Christmas his favorite (ignoring the 25% chance of it being a leap year)? I checked his posts, but there was no comic on the 26th of December 2017.

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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:30 pm UTC

roelst wrote:Being the bored me, I counted all the eve's. It's a total 364 of them. Feel free to review it, but given the fact that I counted it again to check myself you probably don't have to.

That makes me wonder: why is the second day of last year's Christmas his favorite (ignoring the 25% chance of it being a leap year)? I checked his posts, but there was no comic on the 26th of December 2017.

Because that's the day with the most eves.
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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby speising » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:41 pm UTC

roelst wrote:Being the bored me, I counted all the eve's. It's a total 364 of them. Feel free to review it, but given the fact that I counted it again to check myself you probably don't have to.

That makes me wonder: why is the second day of last year's Christmas his favorite (ignoring the 25% chance of it being a leap year)? I checked his posts, but there was no comic on the 26th of December 2017.

Actually, the day after christmas is the first day of christmas.

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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby offsky » Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:16 pm UTC

Can you believe its almost a year until Christmas and stores already have the decorations up!

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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby Mikeski » Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:48 pm UTC

Are eves additive or multiplicative? Would Dec 26th be better written as "Christmas 364*eve" or "Christmas eve364 "?

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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby Pfhorrest » Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:34 pm UTC

I'd say the latter, because it's not several eves, it's the eve of (the eve of (the eve of (the eve of (...)))), and exponential notation is usually used for recursive applications of a function.

Compare also great5-grandparents, meaning great-great-great-great-great-grandparents.
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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby Keyman » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:22 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:I'd say the latter, because it's not several eves, it's the eve of (the eve of (the eve of (the eve of (...)))), and exponential notation is usually used for recursive applications of a function.

Compare also great5-grandparents, meaning great-great-great-great-great-grandparents.

Wow. I've never see that expression before (though I have heard someone say "great to the nth"). It really seems to better express the depth/distance of the relationship.
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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:26 pm UTC

Keyman wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:Compare also great5-grandparents, meaning great-great-great-great-great-grandparents.

Wow. I've never see that expression before (though I have heard someone say "great to the nth"). It really seems to better express the depth/distance of the relationship.

I don't think I've ever seen it written before either, but like you I've heard it spoken, and that's the natural way to write that spoken expression.
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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby xtifr » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:41 pm UTC

So then logically your great-2 grandfather/grandmother is yourself, and your great-3 grandparents are your kids.

Extrapolating a little farther, your greati grandfather would be your grandparent's sibling. And so on...
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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby Archgeek » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:09 pm UTC

xtifr wrote:Extrapolating a little farther, your greati grandfather would be your grandparent's sibling. And so on...

Now you're just exacerbating the complexity of the topic by imagining things.
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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby Flumble » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:38 pm UTC

Archgeek wrote:
xtifr wrote:Extrapolating a little farther, your greati grandfather would be your grandparent's sibling. And so on...

Now you're just exacerbating the complexity of the topic by imagining things.

It does explain why incest often has a negative result.

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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby Keyman » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:15 pm UTC

Flumble wrote:
Archgeek wrote:
xtifr wrote:Extrapolating a little farther, your greati grandfather would be your grandparent's sibling. And so on...

Now you're just exacerbating the complexity of the topic by imagining things.

It does explain why incest often has a negative result.

Yeah. That's the reason. :wink:
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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby svenman » Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:20 pm UTC

Keyman wrote:
Flumble wrote:
Archgeek wrote:
xtifr wrote:Extrapolating a little farther, your greati grandfather would be your grandparent's sibling. And so on...

Now you're just exacerbating the complexity of the topic by imagining things.

It does explain why incest often has a negative result.

Yeah. That's the reason. :wink:

So... don't try to be fruitful and multiply with a sibling, I guess?
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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby esbboston » Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:19 pm UTC

December 23rd is Christmas Adam

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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby Raidri » Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:08 pm UTC

esbboston wrote:December 23rd is Christmas Adam

Someone already made that joke:
Tormuse wrote:Someone once proposed that December 23rd, the day before Christmas Eve, should be called "Christmas Adam."

Because it comes before Eve and is generally unsatisfying. :P

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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby mathmannix » Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:46 pm UTC

I hear velociraptor tastes like chicken.

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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby NotAllThere » Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:57 pm UTC

Brilliand wrote:I don't think it actually works this way.

"Christmas eve" means "Christmas evening". A day used to be considered to last from sunset to sunset, so the "eve" of a day would be the nighttime part of that day (which was before the daytime part of that day).
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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby esbboston » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:01 pm UTC

Raidri wrote:
esbboston wrote:December 23rd is Christmas Adam

Someone already made that joke:
Tormuse wrote:Someone once proposed that December 23rd, the day before Christmas Eve, should be called "Christmas Adam."

Because it comes before Eve and is generally unsatisfying. :P


I wrote my joke a few decades ago.

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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby esbboston » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:09 pm UTC

esbboston wrote:
Raidri wrote:
esbboston wrote:December 23rd is Christmas Adam

Someone already made that joke:
Tormuse wrote:Someone once proposed that December 23rd, the day before Christmas Eve, should be called "Christmas Adam."

Because it comes before Eve and is generally unsatisfying. :P


I wrote my joke a few decades ago.


Out of curiosity I searched my e-mail for Christmas Adam and found a note I sent the pastor of a local church with that in the subject line. It was dated Dec 22nd 2004 at 4:39 AM, and began "Dearest Thor of Sunday Morning Roar" ... I used to do some computer and audio visual work for them.

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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby Brilliand » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:48 pm UTC

xtifr wrote:
Showsni wrote: Technically "eve" doesn't mean the day before, but just the evening of the day.

Didn't mean. Once it only meant the evening of the day, but now it also (in certain contexts) means the day before. Because language changes. (Anyone who disagrees is welcome to explain why they no longer write or speak like the author of Beowulf.) So in modern English, Dec. 23 can indeed be described as Christmas Eve Eve. It may be silly, but there are some fairly simple historical reasons for this odd shift in meaning, as mentioned by Brilliand.


The meaning of "Eve" as "Evening" is still part of modern English, and still makes sense in this situation, so I say the situation hasn't changed for this particular word. It's just that most people don't make the connection.

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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby Pfhorrest » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:47 am UTC

There is a sense in which people say that a given day “is” an event happening at some time on that day, e.g. “today is the big beach party” even if said party is actually only in the two hours following noon. In that sense, December 24th “is” Christmas Eve, even if said eve is actually, like all eves, only in the later hours of the day.
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Re: 2089: "Christmas Eve Eve"

Postby xtifr » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:36 pm UTC

Brilliand wrote:
xtifr wrote:
Showsni wrote: Technically "eve" doesn't mean the day before, but just the evening of the day.

Didn't mean. Once it only meant the evening of the day, but now it also (in certain contexts) means the day before. Because language changes. (Anyone who disagrees is welcome to explain why they no longer write or speak like the author of Beowulf.) So in modern English, Dec. 23 can indeed be described as Christmas Eve Eve. It may be silly, but there are some fairly simple historical reasons for this odd shift in meaning, as mentioned by Brilliand.


The meaning of "Eve" as "Evening" is still part of modern English, and still makes sense in this situation, so I say the situation hasn't changed for this particular word. It's just that most people don't make the connection.


Words in English can and do have multiple meanings, so saying that "eve" can still have its traditional meaning does not mean it doesn't have its new meaning(s). In fact, "eve" is not limited to the day before--it can refer to an arbitrary period of time before something, as in the common phrase "the eve of war", which can refer to months or perhaps even years.

This is why I wrote "in certain contexts". "Eve" does still mean "the evening of the day" in other contexts, but to say (as Showsni did) that it doesn't mean the day before is quite simply wrong.
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