2119: Video Orientation

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2119: Video Orientation

Postby somitomi » Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:43 pm UTC

Image
Title text: “CIRCULAR VIDEO - PROS: Solves aspect ratio problem. CONS: Never trust anyone who talks to you from inside a circle.

No, just no. I'd rather turn my phone sideways than my effing computer screens. Vertical video must either be eradicated or restricted strictly to phones and tablets so they don't plague my existence with black bars taking up two thirds of the screen.

Spoiler:
At this point you might wonder why I have no issues with portrait photographs and the main reason is that they don't intend to capture motion, which (as the comic points out) usually happens horizontally. Additionally, photographs can exist without screens and using the medium more efficiently or directing attention to the subject continues to have its merits. Actually, this second one might be more significant
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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby FiveSevenClown » Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:52 pm UTC

I don't understand the reference to "Never trust anyone who talks to you from inside a circle.". It has immediately made me paranoid. It must be some cultural reference I don't understand.

Please help me!

Is it something to do with witchcraft?
Last edited by FiveSevenClown on Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:12 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby Fungo4 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:34 pm UTC

Gotta hold your phone just right so it doesn't think you're rotating it back and forth!

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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby Heimhenge » Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:48 pm UTC

Made me wonder if any cinema has actually been done in portrait orientation. Sure enough, it's a thing:

https://www.slashfilm.com/meet-the-vert ... -movement/

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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby cellocgw » Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:49 pm UTC

Circular video:
well-known style used by digiscopers and Hollywood directors who want the audience to think they're looking thru a telescope.
Oh, and the old iris-in - iris-out technique of scene changes.
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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby da Doctah » Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:56 pm UTC

Because we needed something to replace the old "letterbox vs pan-n-scan" argument.

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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby RogueCynic » Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:06 pm UTC

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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby Soupspoon » Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:10 pm UTC

The TV people have already standardised on the "how do we show portrait-orientation photos on our landscape-orientated-medium?" issue. Instead of black background that gives vertical letterbox-bars that are increasingly annoying as the portrait and landscape ratios each head well away from unity, blur and expand the over-picture as its own background to make a sort-of-contiguous peripherality that meets the side of the screen, probably with room for manual panning up and down if there's a better distribution of vertical cropping needed.


(The real ultimate solution is to (doubly-?)keystone all images to suit the image matter. You've got no problem looking at a picture book flat on a table when you're sat by the side, or a poster on a wall when you're walking up to it. Just introduce artificial depth-cues to the image and you can fit any ratio into any ratio and the brain just thinks it's viewing in 3D!)

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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby Old Bruce » Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:58 pm UTC

RogueCynic wrote:Randall theorizes Americans are taller than wider. That is not true: ...]

Reminds me of the old joke "What is the difference between Americans and Canadians? About 50 pounds."
I must point out that Randall does not mention Americans in the comic.

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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby somitomi » Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:40 pm UTC

Heimhenge wrote:Made me wonder if any cinema has actually been done in portrait orientation. Sure enough, it's a thing:

https://www.slashfilm.com/meet-the-vert ... -movement/

Well, just as long as we don't care about what fits conveniently into the viewers' field of vision...
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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby Pfhorrest » Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:44 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:vertical letterbox-bars

That's called "pillarboxing".

Also, this comic neglects square video, which is apparently becoming a popular format precisely because it looks reasonable either in portrait or landscape displays.
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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby HES » Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:11 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:
Soupspoon wrote:vertical letterbox-bars

That's called "pillarboxing".

Is there a name for both at once? Seriously, can we fix the trend of 21:9 video being letterboxed into 16:9, which in turn gets pillarboxed on a correctly-proportioned-for-the-original-media 21:9 monitor.
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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby Heimhenge » Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:04 pm UTC

somitomi wrote:
Heimhenge wrote:Made me wonder if any cinema has actually been done in portrait orientation. Sure enough, it's a thing:

https://www.slashfilm.com/meet-the-vert ... -movement/

Well, just as long as we don't care about what fits conveniently into the viewers' field of vision...


Good point. Our eyes are sided by side, not above and below. Slashfilm is pretty clear this is just experimental stuff. The two clips they show look like CGI noise or fractals.

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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby DanD » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:17 pm UTC

FiveSevenClown wrote:I don't understand the reference to "Never trust anyone who talks to you from inside a circle.". It has immediately made me paranoid. It must be some cultural reference I don't understand.

Please help me!

Is it something to do with witchcraft?


I don't have specifics, but that was my thought. Generally summoning circles for demons are pictured as being bordered by a circle. And trusting them is generally a bad idea. Not sure if there's any other reference.

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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby Heimhenge » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:49 pm UTC

FiveSevenClown wrote:I don't understand the reference to "Never trust anyone who talks to you from inside a circle.". It has immediately made me paranoid. It must be some cultural reference I don't understand.

Please help me!

Is it something to do with witchcraft?


My first thought was he referring to something like a closed circle of friends, or an exclusive clique.

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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby xtifr » Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:00 pm UTC

People who talk to you from inside a circle:

1. The Ringmaster. Never trusted that guy in the first place. (No, this is not a Tolkien reference, though I suppose it could be as well.)

2. Porky Pig. So I guess th-th-that's not all, folks? Interesting. Just what is going on that Looney Tunes doesn't want us to know? I bet we're about to go down the rabbit hole here. Which reminds me...

3. People in rabbit holes. Definitely don't trust them!
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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby Soupspoon » Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:03 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:
Soupspoon wrote:vertical letterbox-bars

That's called "pillarboxing".

Which is silly. Might as well call it "phoneboxing" or "portalooing"¹ if you're not going by the slot orientation but by the bulk object itself. (It is not unknown, but hardly common, that the slot is vertical, hardly an archetype given the number of vertical slots in doors.)

But if you must, try this pillarboxing technique.
Spoiler:
Image


¹ "Monolithing" - the sectioning off and blackening of a section in the exact centre of an image, with ratio a²;b² with a and b being any non-identical positive integers. Touching that area may benefit the naturally curious.

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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby Soupspoon » Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:11 pm UTC

Heimhenge wrote:Good point. Our eyes are sided by side, not above and below. Slashfilm is pretty clear this is just experimental stuff. The two clips they show look like CGI noise or fractals.

I have thought, for a while about a Cow Cinema (I tend to envisaged it depicted by someone like Gary Larson, if not done in a Randallesque style). With their largely duo-hemispheric view on the world, the cattle would view this from within the central aisle of a cinema auditorium with two large square (or round?) screens to each side. A cattle thriller film would be mostly long waving grass stems, with glimpses of maybe-predators occasionally seen beyond the stalks, and trace scents injected into the air conditioning system.

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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby Heimhenge » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:15 am UTC

And what kind of "seating" arrangement would you have such that all cows in the audience have clear views of both screens?

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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby Soupspoon » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:35 am UTC

If not just in a single central line, a very shallow U/parabolic profile¹, with raised screens, acting like a forward screen/stage's upsweep of auditorium seating but bidirectionally lateral with sight-lines to the screens just above their fellows. Although, as a herd animal, a lot of a cow's view probably should include fellow cattle sharing the experience.

It'd not be true-horizontal, to them, but when you're perched down at the front at the far left of even the best considered cinema seating you hardly get the oblique view intended by the cinematographer. (I recall that position being my fate when I saw Goldeneye, many years ago. You mentally adapt.)


¹ Given it's cows, it might also be useful for drainage.

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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby commodorejohn » Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:04 am UTC

FiveSevenClown wrote:I don't understand the reference to "Never trust anyone who talks to you from inside a circle.". It has immediately made me paranoid. It must be some cultural reference I don't understand.

Please help me!

Is it something to do with witchcraft?

The Family Circus. PJ knows where the bodies are buried; Billy drew him a map.

Anyway, I vote for any concave polygon of greater than six sides.
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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby gcgcgcgc » Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:50 am UTC

Soupspoon wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:
Soupspoon wrote:vertical letterbox-bars

That's called "pillarboxing".

Which is silly. Might as well call it "phoneboxing" or "portalooing"¹ if you're not going by the slot orientation but by the bulk object itself. (It is not unknown, but hardly common, that the slot is vertical, hardly an archetype given the number of vertical slots in doors.)

But if you must, try this pillarboxing technique.
Spoiler:
Image


¹ "Monolithing" - the sectioning off and blackening of a section in the exact centre of an image, with ratio a²;b² with a and b being any non-identical positive integers. Touching that area may benefit the naturally curious.


Ah the rare Siamese pillarbox.
What about "coinslotting", most of those are vertical in orientation.

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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby madaco » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:26 am UTC

.. who views video vertically?

Just turn your phone sideways to watch it.
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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby gormster » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:38 am UTC

Something about "Cons: None" really tickles me, I've been giggling about this for minutes
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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby The Moomin » Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:36 am UTC

FiveSevenClown wrote:I don't understand the reference to "Never trust anyone who talks to you from inside a circle.". It has immediately made me paranoid. It must be some cultural reference I don't understand.

Please help me!

Is it something to do with witchcraft?


My first thought was Porky Pig. Maybe that wasn't all folks and we've missed the chance to learn the secrets of the universe in a post-credit segment.

On the other side, arguments put forth from a circle will always win as circular reasoning works because circular reasoning works.
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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby Marsh'n » Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:14 pm UTC

DanD wrote:
FiveSevenClown wrote:I don't understand the reference to "Never trust anyone who talks to you from inside a circle.". It has immediately made me paranoid. It must be some cultural reference I don't understand.

Please help me!

Is it something to do with witchcraft?


I don't have specifics, but that was my thought. Generally summoning circles for demons are pictured as being bordered by a circle. And trusting them is generally a bad idea. Not sure if there's any other reference.


Gee, and here I thought it was self-referential. Randall speaks through stick figures. Stick figures have circles for heads. Thus, do not trust the man behind the comic. YMMV.

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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby SomethingAwesome » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:16 pm UTC

Square sensors (4096x4096) and decide in software what orientation to film in. This allows for the usage of sensors that have defects (I don't know if there is any yield concern while creating these sensors?) on maximum 1936x1936 of the surface of the sensor.

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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby Aiwendil » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:21 pm UTC

The horizontal aspect ratio only looks normal to old people? If anything, I'd think it would be the opposite. TV and film aspect ratios have both widened over the years. Vertical aspect ratios would only look normal to people who exclusively watch videos that were shot on a phone.

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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby Pfhorrest » Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:06 pm UTC

Aiwendil wrote:The horizontal aspect ratio only looks normal to old people? If anything, I'd think it would be the opposite. TV and film aspect ratios have both widened over the years.

Yes, but the older ratios were still larger in the horizontal aspect than the vertical one. Standard TV was 4:3, not 3:4.

Vertical aspect ratios would only look normal to people who exclusively watch videos that were shot on a phone.

Who are likely to be younger people, hence the horizontal ratios looking more normal to the reciprocal of that set, old people, who didn't grow up watching video exclusively on phones.
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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby speising » Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:10 pm UTC

i should think the subset of people who do exclusively watch vertical videos, which excludes most movies and youtube videos, be still quite limited.

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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby Sableagle » Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:42 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:With their largely duo-hemispheric view on the world, the cattle would view this from within the central aisle of a cinema auditorium with two large square (or round?) screens to each side.
One large screen to each side ought to be enough, if it's a wide enough screen.

Now, who wants to fight about which diagonal to use and whether 45°, 3-4-5 triangle or 30° is best?
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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby Pfhorrest » Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:56 pm UTC

Obviously it's 3-4-5 triangle.

The question is whether that's 3 down 4 across, or 3 across 4 down.

And in a generation we'll have to square both of those, either way, to make a hip edgy new wide(or tall)screen format for the kids.
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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby Soupspoon » Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:46 am UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:Obviously it's 3-4-5 triangle.

I'll go for a jaunty 21-220-221. Because it's pretty much as tilted as when I try to take it normally, anyway.

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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby Aiwendil » Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:16 am UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:
Aiwendil wrote:The horizontal aspect ratio only looks normal to old people? If anything, I'd think it would be the opposite. TV and film aspect ratios have both widened over the years.

Yes, but the older ratios were still larger in the horizontal aspect than the vertical one. Standard TV was 4:3, not 3:4.


I know, my point was just that the average aspect ratio of videos has widened over the years, not narrowed.

Vertical aspect ratios would only look normal to people who exclusively watch videos that were shot on a phone.

Who are likely to be younger people, hence the horizontal ratios looking more normal to the reciprocal of that set, old people, who didn't grow up watching video exclusively on phones.


What I meant is that I doubt that <i>anyone</i> at this point watches exclusively or primarily videos that were shot on phones. Even if younger people don't have TVs or don't go to the movies, anything they watch on Netflix/Hulu/Amazon Prime, or for that matter, the vast majority of Youtube videos, will still be in a horizontal aspect ratio.

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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby GlassHouses » Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:53 am UTC

Even professional YouTubers shoot on smartphones sometimes -- but they know to hold the phone sideways when they do. Vertical video is a sure sign of a n00b.

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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby jgh » Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:35 am UTC

GlassHouses wrote:Even professional YouTubers shoot on smartphones sometimes -- but they know to hold the phone sideways when they do. Vertical video is a sure sign of a n00b.

They're not holding their phone sideways, they're hold them the right way around!

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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby Zamfir » Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:54 am UTC

There is a distinct group of older people who only watch vertical smartphone-made videos. They are called 'grandparents'

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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby Showsni » Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:19 pm UTC

Just rotate the video camera from horizontal to vertical as you record to please everyone. (You might need to install your television on some kind of rotating disc, though.)

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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby cellocgw » Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:30 pm UTC

xtifr wrote:People who talk to you from inside a circle:

1. The Ringmaster. Never trusted that guy in the first place. (No, this is not a Tolkien reference, though I suppose it could be as well.)



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Re: 2119: Video Orientation

Postby somitomi » Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:17 pm UTC

Showsni wrote:Just rotate the video camera from horizontal to vertical as you record to please everyone give everyone motion sickness. (You might need to install your television on some kind of rotating disc, though.)

Fixed that for you
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