The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

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moody7277
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby moody7277 » Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:00 pm UTC

wam's simple

Spoiler:
So, questions about what happened since I am no longer in the loop:

Looks like jimbob's post was that plytho was the supposed NK, so there are two options, a. mpolo blocked plytho because of wagon stuff in which case that's the likely D3 lynch and confusion when game doesn't end or b. mpolo for some reason blocked jimbob which means game over. Edge case is that jimbob switched to withholding, but I don't think he wants to drag out the game that long.

C'mon jimbob. Thwart plytho's evil townie plans!
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Peaceful Whale » Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:44 am UTC

Wam's Simple Game
Spoiler:
well, looks like I'm going got be subbed in...
please be vanilla town :P

edit: I said mafia, not town XD
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Spoiler:
cemper93 wrote:Your meta appears to be "just writes whatever is on his mind and doesn't remember what happened more than five hours ago"

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby SuicideJunkie » Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:04 am UTC

If there is a general refusal to vote, then anyone can defect at the end of the day and vote themselves off. They'll be eliminated, and can't be punished for it afterwards.
In case of a tie, the lynch can go to the person who first reached that vote total.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Madge » Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:28 am UTC

After having to fly to fuckin' Sydney and spend ~$1,000 in the process (flights, accom, visa fees, uber, etc)... I got my French visa! I'll be in France from the 25th of May to the 25th of November :D.

My mafia activity will cease other than "replacement of last resort, I will not catch up on the thread, I will ask players in the game to summarise for me" levels of activity. And modding Halloween since it's now become a tradition.

I think my visa doesn't technically allow me to leave France though, so I might not be able to do a Europe tour and visit y'all :(. We'll have to see!
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Sabrar » Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:58 am UTC

Madge wrote:I think my visa doesn't technically allow me to leave France though, so I might not be able to do a Europe tour and visit y'all :(. We'll have to see!
That is strange, is there a specific reason? You should be able to travel freely in the EU...

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Madge » Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:17 am UTC

My visa says it's valid for France and specifically excludes "overseas french territories". I wonder if I can use my standard schengen 30 day visa to leave France? I've heard you can't leave on a visa. I've also heard that they don't exactly have border guards on every corner, though.
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Vicarin » Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:22 am UTC

SuicideJunkie wrote:If there is a general refusal to vote, then anyone can defect at the end of the day and vote themselves off. They'll be eliminated, and can't be punished for it afterwards.
In case of a tie, the lynch can go to the person who first reached that vote total.


I thought self-votes weren't going to be allowed?

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby plytho » Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:40 am UTC

Madge wrote:My visa says it's valid for France and specifically excludes "overseas french territories". I wonder if I can use my standard schengen 30 day visa to leave France? I've heard you can't leave on a visa. I've also heard that they don't exactly have border guards on every corner, though.

According to this official site a french long stay visa is equivalent to a shengen visa. (apparently the French overseas territories aren't shengen)
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Madge » Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:52 am UTC

Noice. Madge's European tour is back on!!! Would love to have coffee with any of you that I can get to within a reasonable train ride of Paris. (I am planning on overnighting in a few European towns like Berlin, somewhere in Italy, Belgium, maybe other places who knows?)
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Sabrar » Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:47 am UTC

moody7277 wrote:For that game, Sabrar's posting rate is considered "average".
Just checked, MU is still blocked at work, otherwise I would consider it.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby plytho » Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:25 pm UTC

Wam's bsg
Spoiler:
If Sabrar asks about mistakes again I can point at me saying I won't believe mpolo's result. I obviously mean I won't believe it means he blocked the nk. I wonder if anyone is going to jump on it. I also fear mpolo may have targeted me. He was voting me, after all. If he did I might be getting into a fight today anyway. Although I'm pretty sure my push on moody doesn't look bussy and anyone who thinks so is scum! (Or like probably one of them.)
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby plytho » Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:36 pm UTC

Madge wrote:Noice. Madge's European tour is back on!!! Would love to have coffee with any of you that I can get to within a reasonable train ride of Paris. (I am planning on overnighting in a few European towns like Berlin, somewhere in Italy, Belgium, maybe other places who knows?)
I know the best places in Belgium! Also, if you're into that, there's a huge (free) festival July 19-28 in my hometown (Ghent) with tons of street performers and live music.
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby SuicideJunkie » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:31 pm UTC

Madge wrote:I've also heard that they don't exactly have border guards on every corner, though.

When I was driving from Amsterdam to Germany on a business trip, the only reason I knew I had entered Germany, was that people suddenly started passing me at 200km/h.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby plytho » Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:34 pm UTC

Wam's bsg

Spoiler:
Exciting! Hurry up, wam!
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby SuicideJunkie » Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:16 pm UTC

W-BSG
Spoiler:
I have no real idea what's going on. Arcane mafia logic is flying and I want to bet on the long odds of Mafia!Sabrar for the big payout.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby SuicideJunkie » Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:27 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:
SuicideJunkie wrote:If there is a general refusal to vote, then anyone can defect at the end of the day and vote themselves off. They'll be eliminated, and can't be punished for it afterwards.
In case of a tie, the lynch can go to the person who first reached that vote total.


I thought self-votes weren't going to be allowed?

Self-targeting a night kill would definitely not be allowed.
Self-voting would not actually be needed for a 3-2 to become a 2-2 townie win, since the mafia would be under the same restriction, but policy-NL is a cheeseball tactic to wait out the NKs.

Everyone policy-unvoting would prevent the last mafia from being eliminated unless self-voting is allowed.
If self-voting is allowed (by default), then no lynch policies still leave things in a dangerously exciting state for end of day.

Probably the best way to tidy that up for timezone purposes is to start the day with an assumed self-vote for everyone, and a random 'first'ness priority list.
If anyone doesn't like the randomly chosen priority, then all it takes is one vote to change it.

I suppose that random ordering can be applied to zero-vote ties as well.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Madge » Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:22 am UTC

plytho wrote:
Madge wrote:Noice. Madge's European tour is back on!!! Would love to have coffee with any of you that I can get to within a reasonable train ride of Paris. (I am planning on overnighting in a few European towns like Berlin, somewhere in Italy, Belgium, maybe other places who knows?)
I know the best places in Belgium! Also, if you're into that, there's a huge (free) festival July 19-28 in my hometown (Ghent) with tons of street performers and live music.


I am not into that, unfortunately! But it sounds like a great time for those people who are :). Would love some recommendations / an escort around wherever in Belgium you may recommend.

I just booked my flights, 25 may - 25 november (...exactly the dates on my visa as it turns out). Now I need to work out how to find a house share when I've never actually been in a house share before (unless you count living with partners, which i think is a whole different dynamic). There's a paris vegan houseshare group on facebook (my ideal scenario as i'd love to share cooking duties with a housemate, but is that something housemates do?), but it's super inactive.
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Vicarin » Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:26 am UTC

@SJ: So, the main issue is have with that solution would be the 2 town 1 mafia situation in a close game. Normal mafia has this be a 33% win for town if people vote randomly, so they're encouraged to take into account everything that's happened. For reverse, town wins 66% without doing anything, and it's very hard to get below 50% without actively trying to mess up.

Extending this to more players, if you make it so that anyone who deviates from self voting is shunned by everyone else, then it's not going to be possible for the mafia team to get below 1 person, and I think town would have a decent chance of winning a vanilla setup just by letting it ride. Which is probably not desirable. Possibly scum having a secret unseen vote they can move as a team but having all vote ties kill off town when possible would solve this exploit? Or just have ties always kill scum if possible, but this gives scum less control over the situation.

Related to this, in normal mafia, town needs to identify all scum to win. In this, town just needs to identify 1 to win. Hence, be extremely careful about stuff like investigations if scum don't have any way of killing their own.

Finally, if you do design a setup, I'd recommend trying simulating a game or two of it to try to work out if there's any quickly exploitable strategies and/or undesirable gameplay resulting from rules. One of the reasons having more than 1 mod can work out well.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby SuicideJunkie » Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:51 am UTC

Things getting harder for the Mafia as the numbers get smaller is definitely a factor I've been thinking about.
Going full random, mafia only breaks even on a 6-1 game, which is why the extra powers are needed.

And investigators are an obvious issue. The hard part is finding a non-doctor role for townies that doesn't make things easier.
The solutions to that have to remain closed to prevent wine spillage before the game starts.

Making a tied vote kill the mafia first might make it too obvious. And it would clear the name of the non-lynched tie player if they ever tie-lynch a town.
Maybe it is as simple as restricting the mafia NK to town only if there has been a lynch during the day. Voting to a NL = mafia death, so the town is motivated properly.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Vicarin » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:05 am UTC

SuicideJunkie wrote:Things getting harder for the Mafia as the numbers get smaller is definitely a factor I've been thinking about.
Going full random, mafia only breaks even on a 6-1 game, which is why the extra powers are needed.

And investigators are an obvious issue. The hard part is finding a non-doctor role for townies that doesn't make things easier.
The solutions to that have to remain closed to prevent wine spillage before the game starts.

Making a tied vote kill the mafia first might make it too obvious. And it would clear the name of the non-lynched tie player if they ever tie-lynch a town.
Maybe it is as simple as restricting the mafia NK to town only if there has been a lynch during the day. Voting to a NL = mafia death, so the town is motivated properly.


The clearing issue would be solved by the secret vote that I was proposing, by enabling scum to choose how to break the tie. Realistically, a tie between several town is just going to suck for scum no matter what method you use to break it.

NL resulting in scum deaths is a bit better, but what's stopping everyone from agreeing to choose a target randomly and then only vote for that target each day? Still need the game to be somewhat balanced for random voting, and if ties lead to NL, you're encouraging scum to quickly switch near the end of the day to force a tie, while if they don't, the main issue of everyone wanting to force a huge tie is unresolved.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Thingyman » Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:02 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:Thingyman from Mafia Universe contacted me, they'll be having the next Mafia Championships soon. If any xkcd-er wants to participate let me know. Deadline for registration is April 26.

Some important stuff:
Your representative should be prepared for having to read upwards of 600 posts per 24 hours during the early stages of the game. Additionally, there’s a requirement that each player must make at least 10 posts per Game Day. Only active players should apply/participate.

Format is:
- 17 players, 4 Mafia, no indies, everybody is a PR
- However abilities are distributed randomly across alignments (so you can have scum with Vig, Cop or anything else)
- there are 1-shot, even/odd and normal PR-s, no exotic roles
- ability won't be revealed in the flip, just the alignment
- hammer doesn't cause day to end, only deadline (so basically there is no hammer)

Full details here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1E9x7nJkSPmv1ZtSKFdSmLsvD4DQoX13i2MA9VG5p4W4/edit


Thank you for sharing the invitation, Sabrar.

I'll be here to answer any questions that you guys have.

I THINK someone asked about no lynch, or maybe that was directed at a game here? In any case, no lynch is allowed in these games. If a majority votes no lynch, then at the end of the day, no one is lynched. I don't think that has ever happened though. If there is a tie in votes, then one of the tied players will be randomly chosen as the lynch.

With regards to the high activity requirements, it's definitely a lot. But if you have a 2-3 week stretch sometime during April, May or June where you have more availability, then I'll make sure you're scheduled into a game starting at a good time for you. Also, this year will feature less MU regulars and many new communities, so while I still expect a lot of activity, I think it might decrease a bit. We've also implemented a post restriction of 200 posts per game day per player, so that if you get a couple of spammy players, they can't completely take over the thread.

I very much hope to see xkcd represented. I think you guys have only missed one season :)

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby SuicideJunkie » Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:04 pm UTC

Vicarin wrote:The clearing issue would be solved by the secret vote that I was proposing, by enabling scum to choose how to break the tie. Realistically, a tie between several town is just going to suck for scum no matter what method you use to break it.

NL resulting in scum deaths is a bit better, but what's stopping everyone from agreeing to choose a target randomly and then only vote for that target each day? Still need the game to be somewhat balanced for random voting, and if ties lead to NL, you're encouraging scum to quickly switch near the end of the day to force a tie, while if they don't, the main issue of everyone wanting to force a huge tie is unresolved.

I don't really see how it would help avoid clearing people; theoretically, scum could choose to lynch a townie instead of a mafia in case of a tie, but why would they do that?

If everyone votes randomly, then the players with the most 'random' votes are probably scum.
Also, if a tie leads to a mafia death, then town will be pushing bandwagons strongly; random would spread the vote too thin.

Only one mafia could switch at the end of the day unless it is a secret switch, and they'd have to succeed in lynching themselves in the gambit, otherwise town will know who is who and win.

PS: Thanks for bouncing the ideas!

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby plytho » Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:01 am UTC

I'm going to be taking a mafia break for the coming months. I will hang around the forums though, probably.

Madge wrote: Would love some recommendations / an escort around wherever in Belgium you may recommend.
I'd love to show you around my hometown and tell you which other places are awesome in belgium. Let me know what you like to see/do on a trip and I'll make a list.
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby SuicideJunkie » Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:21 pm UTC

Well, I do have a way to make Reversi work with less than 7, but more is better.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby SuicideJunkie » Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:02 pm UTC

Another meta idea:
Calvinball Mafia.
Initially vanilla, but becoming wackier over time.
Everyone submits a rule at night. The least unfair rule will be implemented starting the next day.
Ideally the rule rulings would be done by an independent agent not aware of the game itself and thus not biased.

For example,
The suggested rule of "Town Wins" would be easily beaten by "Mafia gets two secret votes", which is in turn beaten by "Random player gets a doctor power".
So on Day 2, a doctor power is handed out, possibly to the mafia player because it wasn't specified to be town-only.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby BoomFrog » Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:50 pm UTC

I like it, but it might be too slow. The most important responsibility to all the non-vannila aspects of the game are to provide something interesting to talk about D1. An interesting D1 is what makes a fun and interesting game. The game is basically over by D4 or even D3.

I'd suggest a pregame rule submission phase. (possibly N0 so people know their alignments). And I'd probably take like, 1/3rd rounded down of the proposed rules.
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:04 pm UTC

You could have everybody submit 3 rules suggestions and select one random one from each player to form the base list to draw from too. That way a player is unable to guarantee how things will work immediately and so on.
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby plytho » Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:13 pm UTC

plytho wrote:I'm going to be taking a mafia break for the coming months.
Because I need to take care of a baby now :D
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Sabrar » Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:23 pm UTC

Grats! :)

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby plytho » Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:01 am UTC

Thanks!
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby SuicideJunkie » Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:48 pm UTC

Congratulations Plytho!

Boomfrog:
I would expect the topic of what rules to suggest, and how to discuss and agree to something without the Mafia undercutting everything would be key on Day 1.
Accepting multiple rules could work, but it would have to be limited to less than the number of mafia players remaining, otherwise town can all agree to submit "Town Wins" and get at least one of those through.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby bessie » Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:10 am UTC

plytho wrote:Because I need to take care of a baby now :D

Yea! Congratulations plytho!

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Thingyman » Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:30 am UTC

Hey guys. I'm going on vacation next week, so won't be able to check in here. If you guys happen to decide on a representative for the Mafia Championship in that time, they can reach me on Mafia Universe or Discord (Thingyman#6075). I'll then make sure they get the information they need to get prepared :)

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby plytho » Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:45 am UTC

bessie wrote:
plytho wrote:Because I need to take care of a baby now :D

Yea! Congratulations plytho!

Thanks :D
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby SuicideJunkie » Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:33 pm UTC

I'll get Reversi rolling for Friday, which will give everyone the weekend to ponder their roles and strategies for D1.
Last chance to sign up and try to lose!

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Madge » Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:12 am UTC

I am gonna read spoilers for reversi because i'm so excited to watch it!!!! I hope there's another round of it once i'm back from my sabbatical.
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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby SuicideJunkie » Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:17 am UTC

Reversi
Spoiler:
Well, everyone has at least some role flavour.
1 mafia, 4 town, 0 ind, so I guess that means Triple-MYLO, but that's the way a Timbit crumbles.

The powers are pretty much all counterproductive or useless to the player as you might expect, even though they'd be overpowered in a normal game, but they should drive some discussion.

I particularly like Peaceful Whale's power, but don't want to spoil it until I see the reactions.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby SuicideJunkie » Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:14 pm UTC

Madge wrote:I am gonna read spoilers for reversi because i'm so excited to watch it!!!! I hope there's another round of it once i'm back from my sabbatical.

I'd be happy to run another round if people want it.

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby Peaceful Whale » Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:57 pm UTC

Reversi Mini
Spoiler:
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... this is interesting.
my goal: kill out town? But play as town?
So i guess lynching town is a good thing. But here's the problem. My ability essentially means I cannot get killed by mafia. but I want them to kill me so they win.

Plan: act scummy as flipping hell! Which is really easy for me because everything I do is scummy.

I'm still confused about the game mechanics. But i'm guessing it just means town is trying to kill themselves, and mafia is trying to kill themselves. so everyone is going to be acting as scummy as possible....
so do we all want to die?
I'm guessing there are a lot of powers that force them to kill others. I hope mafia can't kill themselves with their night ko because that would be weird :P

honestly i want to come out swinging: "I CANNOT DIE AT ALL SUCKERS! TRY TO KILL ME I DARE YOU!"... if they kill me its a +!

also, I cannot die by night ko unless a doctor visited me the night before, and the fact that this is a small game, I'm guessing that there is one player who's a docotor. I am thinking that this will probably never happen as its such a small game...

it would be funny if in the end its me an a mafia dude... and we can't kill each other XD
My meta for future reference
Spoiler:
cemper93 wrote:Your meta appears to be "just writes whatever is on his mind and doesn't remember what happened more than five hours ago"

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Re: The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

Postby SuicideJunkie » Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:05 pm UTC

Reversi
Spoiler:
Peaceful Whale wrote:...

I'm not quite sure how you got from "Town is trying to kill themselves" to "Act scummy to get eliminated"...
Reverse psychology on the lynch? Or hoping to be NKed by the Mafia thinking you're one of them?

The latter plan isn't the best given the power, although it could possibly work for someone else... But probably not, because a 3-town/2-mafia Reversi game would almost always end on Day 1.

(I call it Town Hypochondriac: Obligatory Self-doctoring, unless visited by a real doctor the previous night.)


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