You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Snoof » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:01 am UTC

Vaniver wrote:
Kag wrote:As far as I know, the only thing you absolutely cannot buy from merchants is adamantine (although I don't remember ever seeing steel, so some things are probably rarer than others)
I've bought a lot of steel; you primarily get it through weapons/armor you then melt down. The wiki claims they never sell glass.

In my experience, merchants have never brought sand or glass. This can make it a bit frustrating, since sand is so useful if you have magma, yet getting both of them on the same map is tricky.

Personally, my favoured trade goods are embroidered, dyed cloth robes. Especially since with a high-skill Weaver, Dyer and Clothesmaker you can get pig-tail robes (or socks!) worth several hundred cash. I know stone crafts (and totems, since I'm farming meat) are essentially free, but I get sick of them cluttering up stockpiles. Plus, it's much more convenient to sell a single robe for a huge pile of meat than waste time selecting a dozen rings or whatever.

Oh, that reminds me. I've never seen merchants bring me bone, fat, shells or skulls. Or tallow, come to think of it. Except indirectly, of course. Mmm... I once bought a dead caged tiger from the elves.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Vaniver » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:42 pm UTC

Snoof wrote:This can make it a bit frustrating, since sand is so useful if you have magma, yet getting both of them on the same map is tricky.
So far I've found it relatively easy to find two of sand, obsidian, and magma. But I want three (and was unhappy to learn that, no, sandy clay does not count as sand. Time to keep regenerating)!
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Jessica » Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:27 pm UTC

I seem to have found all 3.
Well, not much Obsidian, as only the magma creates that. So, all along the sides of the magma column.
If I need a lot of it, I'll find a way to make it.
Also, I'm gonna need to find some Bauxite soon, as I want access to magma without dealing with crappy imps.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:18 pm UTC

Imps are suprisingly easy to kill, given the damage they can do. Magma Men or Lava Men are quite a bit more hardcore, but generally speaking are content to stay in the magma.

In my experience, at least, 9 times out of 10, they stay in the tube until you practically drain it all.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Xaddak » Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:44 pm UTC

My magma men and fire men are the 1/10 group. Of course, they're also in the "pincushion" group...

I have a swamp with a lava tube going straight from surface to bottom. So, lots of trees, pure sand two layers down, an aquifer that I got past thanks to the lava vent, and after the aquifer layer upon layer of beautiful, beautiful stone (I'm building a tower). Of course, the first thing I did was dig a moat around the lava vent. Hit me now, imps! *cackles*
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Benitosimies » Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:19 pm UTC

Gharbad wrote:I seem to have found all 3.
Well, not much Obsidian, as only the magma creates that. So, all along the sides of the magma column.
If I need a lot of it, I'll find a way to make it.
Also, I'm gonna need to find some Bauxite soon, as I want access to magma without dealing with crappy imps.


You can buy bauxite from the dwarf traders.

And my comment about the imps is inherited from ST's comment. With the following ::addition: use marksdwarves.

Also, imps will stay in the vent if you access the vent not by digging out that last square in the side of the pipe but by smoothing the wall and carving a fortification into it (did someone here say that already?)
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Jessica » Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:33 pm UTC

But if you do that (someone also said) that the fortifications can melt. Is that true?
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Benitosimies » Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:12 pm UTC

I smoothed the obsidian wall and then carved a fortification right into it. The engraver died immediately from the heat and smoke and lava and death but the fortification hasn't melted yet.

Smoothing rock and then making a fortification is different from [b]uilding a [c]onstruction and designating a [F]ortification.

One thing is that if you build it from rocks laying around you can't walk on the top of it.
Also I guess magma will melt it if it isn't bauxite.

(Although if you build a wall first and *then* carve the fortification you still can walk on top of it. It's squirrelly.).
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Jessica » Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:45 pm UTC

Ah, so send in a peasent with "smooth stone" as one of his skills :)
edit: Also, how do you extract water from an aquifer, other than a well? I'm wondering if I can make a moat on the surface with my aquifer a couple levels down.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby 4=5 » Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:57 am UTC

a series of tubes
(pumps)

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:48 am UTC

Yeah, a couple of pumps..

Imagine this is the vertical view. The arrows to the right indicate which direction the screw pump is pushing the water.

|__XX | <--
| XX__| -->
|__XX | <--
| XX__| -->
|__XX | <--
| XX__| -->

That blank area down the middle will allow you to transfer power using screw pumps. On top, somewhere, get some gears and attach the whole thing to a couple of water wheels somewhere and you're in business.

The top-down view that I've found works well is something like this....

Code: Select all

000000
00.000
00.000
00xOX0   ^   
00x000   |
00 000   |
000000 Direction of water


0 is a wall, . is a floor, x is the screw pump, O is a door, and X is an up/down staircase. Basically, it's a T shape, with a channel in the middle and on the southern end. The next floor up is the exact same T shape, but with the screw pump pointing south instead of north, and the channel on the north end instead of the southern one.

Using that, you can raise water to pretty much wherever you want. If you don't need to manually operate the pumps, you lock the doors after the pumps have been constructed and all the channeling done.

The only thing to remember in this setup is that you have to build the pumps from the bottom up.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Vaniver » Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:29 pm UTC

Yeah, I always make sure to bring a bauxite block or two when settling a magma map.


Now that I've played magma, it's hard to go back. A large part of me knows that it isn't that hard to get the charcoal and sand being renewable isn't that important (because stone is almost as renewable), but it's magma! How can you not love it!


How much do you guys try and make your fortress aesthetically pleasing? Do you bother with things like giving dwarves individual rooms or do you just have a central barracks and then noble rooms (and, on the subject of noble rooms, do you actually waste energy on getting good furniture or do you just make em giant and engraved)?
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Xaddak » Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:37 pm UTC

I'm actually in the process of building a tower right now, and I'm taking the time to make it all out of blocks instead of raw stone. But even when I'm underground, I try to make my fortress as organized and clutter-free as possible.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby integral » Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:31 am UTC

I'm lazy. I put every noble in one room. They all think everything in the room belongs to them, which is funny because they'll buy stuff and haul it back to their room, where all the other nobles will confiscate it and claim it as theirs. Sort of a weird noble-commune.

As for regular bedrooms, I do it this way:

Code: Select all

XDXDXDX
XBXBXBX
XHXHXHX
XDXDXDX
XBXBXBX
XHXHXHX
XDXDXDX


In other words, a long series of corridors, going Door, Bed, Container, Door, etc. It saves space, but it's ugly and hell on traffic. But it's fine, since the legendary dwarves sleep in the barracks anyways and they're the ones I need.

Does anyone know if pets breed if they're in cages or locked in a room? I hate it when goblins systematically slaughter all the pets outside the fortress before getting raped by traps.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Benitosimies » Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:49 am UTC

Vaniver wrote:Yeah, I always make sure to bring a bauxite block or two when settling a magma map.

Now that I've played magma, it's hard to go back. A large part of me knows that it isn't that hard to get the charcoal and sand being renewable isn't that important (because stone is almost as renewable), but it's magma! How can you not love it!

How much do you guys try and make your fortress aesthetically pleasing? Do you bother with things like giving dwarves individual rooms or do you just have a central barracks and then noble rooms (and, on the subject of noble rooms, do you actually waste energy on getting good furniture or do you just make em giant and engraved)?


I like magma too even though it causes my CPU to sizzle. To balance it out though you can throw things into it and they're gone forever so your computer doesn't have to keep track of them anymore.

Metagaming aside it's nice to have infinite fuel.

I make 3x3 dormitories with a bed, a cabinet, and a coffer, and I also make a "nice neighborhood" with smooth rooms of 4x4 or bigger, usually near a statue garden.

Funny thing is my haulers who don't make a lot of money usually marry someone who does and wind up affording high-rent rooms. This causes me to think that my haulers are just people who grew up getting things handed to them because of their looks and wound up not picking up any real skills.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:50 am UTC

If you throw two of one kind in a zoo and they're of the appropriate genders, it seems they have little to do but procreate wildly. I often end neck-deep in horse foals and kittens.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Vaniver » Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:01 am UTC

Benitosimies wrote:Metagaming aside it's nice to have infinite fuel.
Well, technically you already have infinite fuel; if you keep your dwarves from destroying too many saplings and have at least a few trees. It's just not infinite in any particular timeframe :P

I used to do the 3x3 room for everyone plan, although one of my current fortresses I got behind on room construction and so the room situation is probably describable as a crisis (didn't have an axe for the longest time, so the number of beds was limited, and I didn't make doors until I could make clear glass ones...).

Also, how long is the longest you've played any particular fortress? It seems possible to make it nearly impossible to kill (a trap corridor long enough, unless they use tactics I'm unaware of, will kill an arbitrarily large army), and then you pretty much just sit and watch it run, giving appropriate orders every now and then ("ok, you need to cut a new batch of trees to make more barrels).

Also- I've found myself drastically reducing the starting size, even though I never have CPU troubles. You still have more than enough room.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Xaddak » Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:58 am UTC

I'm in early winter on 1056 now.

I'm building 2x2 rooms for my guys in my tower - bed, chest, two free spaces, palm/willow doors, and the walls/floors are made of rhyolite blocks. They seem to be panning out at no-adjective Quarters, which I think is plenty for basic housing. I'm going to end up with 3 floors of 48 of those each, for a total of 144 rooms, and then I am going to make a further 50 barracks-style beds (1 tile each). I'm aware this is overkill as it will house 194 dwarves, and between marriages and noble rooms, I don't need that many separate beds, but "there is no such thing as 'overkill', only 'open fire', and 'time to reload'."
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby integral » Fri Apr 04, 2008 6:49 am UTC

Usually I get a legendary Engraver to go over them. It absurdly increases value.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Benitosimies » Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:09 pm UTC

integral wrote:Usually I get a legendary Engraver to go over them. It absurdly increases value.


I don't think you can engrave Constructed walls, only fortify them.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Apr 04, 2008 6:03 pm UTC

I didn't even think you could fortify them, but that you'd have to tear them down and rebuild fortifications in their place.

*one quick experiment later* well, lookitthat... you can fortify constructed walls... I was not aware of that.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby integral » Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:32 pm UTC

Benitosimies wrote:
integral wrote:Usually I get a legendary Engraver to go over them. It absurdly increases value.


I don't think you can engrave Constructed walls, only fortify them.


Well, I usually don't construct walls. I just dig them out the way they're supposed to be.

By the way, have you seen some really crazy bedroom designs? They've got fractal bedrooms and crazy stuff.

http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index. ... al_designs

That is incredibly sexy. But I'm not that devoted to do stuff like that.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Xaddak » Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:36 pm UTC

I don't think fractals are worth the effort you need to put into them.

Not when this works plenty well:
Spoiler:
Image


That is one-half of one floor of my tower. The white building off to the side is going to be a water tower eventually.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby integral » Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:41 pm UTC

No, the whole point is aesthetics.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:46 pm UTC

While that's true, in this game (at least for me) function over form. Pretty only counts if it works good.

While almost all of them are perfectly acceptable, this one..
Hactar1_Mandelbrot_Tree.png

The distance any dwarf has to travel to get from the main corridor in the middle to their own room is insane, even for the rooms closest to the corridors. It's like the creator was *trying* to make the dwarves move unnecessarily. Granted, every room is about the same distance away, but the same shitty distance is still a shitty distance.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Jessica » Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:49 pm UTC

Yeah. It's like they forgot that the important thing is to make your dwarves not walk forever. Because if they walk forever, they get tired and need more booze, or sleep.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Benitosimies » Fri Apr 04, 2008 11:06 pm UTC

It wouldn't be that bad if you put staircases in some of the rooms and have all of the staircases accessible for their respective sections.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby jabberwock33 » Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:57 am UTC

I play many roguelikes and do moderately well, but have absolutely no idea how to play this game. I've been trying to understand it again upon finding this thread, but only because it's supposed to be so amazing. Any tips on figuring out what the heck I'm doing?

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby 4=5 » Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:25 am UTC

dwarf fortress wiki and if that fails a friend who plays on speed dial

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby integral » Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:49 am UTC

You can also post here, but I think you need to be more specific with what you want to know.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Vaniver » Sat Apr 05, 2008 5:26 am UTC

jabberwock33 wrote:I play many roguelikes and do moderately well, but have absolutely no idea how to play this game. I've been trying to understand it again upon finding this thread, but only because it's supposed to be so amazing. Any tips on figuring out what the heck I'm doing?
This article is invaluable in starting to figure out how the game works.

Also, if you haven't made a world yet, design a new world with parameters and make a pocket-sized world.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby jabberwock33 » Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:59 am UTC

Thanks so much! I can actually play the game now. I'm up to an eighteen-dwarf fortress living on plump helmets.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Vaniver » Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:33 am UTC

I've just started to identify the problem that I have with this game as time goes on: population grows far faster than the number of jobs necessary. Normally this would mean that a higher percentage of dwarves can focus on more valuable tasks- but the number of more valuable jobs you can have is pretty much capped. One legendary dwarf, by himself, will make for a better-than-necessary export industry. A few miners and a few engravers will make rooms of arbitrarily high quality (but it really helps to be in obsidian), and three dwarves dedicated to farming, brewing, and cooking can feed as many dwarves as you can cram in. Add a mason to make furniture to keep nobles happy, and you're set.

Also, while I like that legendary dwarves are so much better than low-skilled dwarves, it just compounds this problem; a rather small legendary crew can keep alive and happy an obscenely high number of dwarves.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SecondTalon » Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:26 am UTC

If nothing else, the more dwarves/animals there are running around, the slower the whole thing runs. I think I'm going to adopt a murder policy... once I hit around 50ish dwarves, start murdering the excess.

Might work.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby integral » Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:32 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote:If nothing else, the more dwarves/animals there are running around, the slower the whole thing runs. I think I'm going to adopt a murder policy... once I hit around 50ish dwarves, start murdering the excess.

Might work.


You can always keep a population cap (init.txt). As for animals, set age of all animals to one, and then butcher all non-pet animals.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SecondTalon » Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:11 am UTC

Yeah, but if I murder migrants, I get their new, fresh gear to amuse myself with. And every now and again I find myself thinking "I guess I could train this guy to be a glassmaker, but then I'd loose... Oh! Migration.. lemme kill off everyone but one guy and.. he's my new glassmaker."
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby integral » Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:32 pm UTC

What technique do you employ to murder your migrants? I've always found that ways of outright killing them are either hard to make or are nonreusable. And locking them in a room without food takes too long.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Kag » Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:37 pm UTC

See the "sucks-to-be-you-atron 9000" I posted earlier in the thread. Make the bridges retract instead of crush, and set up a drowning chamber underneath.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SecondTalon » Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:45 pm UTC

integral wrote:What technique do you employ to murder your migrants? I've always found that ways of outright killing them are either hard to make or are nonreusable. And locking them in a room without food takes too long.


A murder-pool.. basically, a screw pump that pushes water in to a locked room, and another pump that removes said water. Set the migrants to military mode, station them inside the room, lock the door and activate the pumps. Glug glug.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Vaniver » Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:27 am UTC

If you have a magma pool (will work with a pit of water, if they can't climb out), build some walls up (with a staircase) and then a gangplank (out of floors) extending over the magma. Make them military, station them on the edge, and then remove the floors keeping the others in the air, and they'll fall to their deaths. If you want to have their stuff, make it taller but not land someplace irretrievable. Making them walk the plank is far more rewarding than concentration-camp tactics :P
I mostly post over at LessWrong now.

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