How sustainable are you?

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How sustainable is your lifestyle?

I live in an ecovillage bitches
0
No votes
I grow my own vegetables and laugh at others who don't
10
8%
I'm usually good about recycling and might have reusable bags
66
52%
Only if it's convenient will I do anything environmentally friendly
27
21%
I score ten points for every hippy I hit with a McDonald's cup while driving down the street in my extreme off road modded hummer
7
6%
I eat rare otters for breakfast and piss in the gas tank of Priuses
17
13%
 
Total votes: 127

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KevorkianKat
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How sustainable are you?

Postby KevorkianKat » Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:13 pm UTC

The poll is meant to be funny, but I'm looking for serious conversation. I couldn't post two polls but I have two questions:

How sustainable is your lifestyle?
Like:
-Is your living area (where you live) a sustainable choice? (i.e. without AC you can't really live in the desert without severe lifestyle modifications)
-How do you choose what to eat? What do you eat? Do you grow any of your own food
-Do you travel to work in a car? Boat? Bus?
etc.

and

If you could change it, what would you do differently?
Like:
-I would plant a garden (or larger one)
-Take the bus more often
-Eat fewer otters
etc.

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Gunfingers
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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby Gunfingers » Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:49 pm UTC

According to this thread i'm not very sustainable at all.

-My AC is on right now even though i'm at work (i don't want my cats to get too hot).
-I live alone in a house that could support a small family easily.
-I rarely if ever carpool.
-I have no idea where my food comes from.

I don't actively make things worse, but i'm not really interested in going out of my way to conserve either.

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Belial
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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby Belial » Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:50 pm UTC

Gunfingers wrote:I don't actively make things worse


Yes you do. We all do. Conservation is just the process of trying to make things worse more slowly.
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They/them

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Gunfingers
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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby Gunfingers » Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:52 pm UTC

*narrows eyes*

...Touche, raptor.

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sophyturtle
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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby sophyturtle » Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:03 pm UTC

I try being good, I do these things:
-I switched my work from normal printer paper to 30% recycled (I order for the lab)
-I use low watt (7) florescent bulbs in my house
-My ac is normally on "fan" mode, not actual AC mode. And it is off when I am not home (I leave the windows open for the cats)
-I don't drive (but my BF does :(), most things I take the train or bus for.
-Most of my food is organic
-I use reusable cotton pads for girl week
-I recycle at home (if you throw out recyclables in Cambridge, MA they will stop taking your trash, HA!)
-I recycle paper and drink containers at work
-I try to unplug things that are not in use (DVD player, gamecube, etc.)
-I use cloth shopping bags

I ranked myself in the 3rd group, because I don't actually grow food or anything. I just did the little switches to help myself feel less guilty about being in this species.

I would love a garden. I guess I could grow a small one. First I want to see if I can keep the plants I have now alive (I have 3 dry-ish type plants and 3 orchids) but next I think herbs would be nice...
I would like to drive around less with my honey (running late in the mornings means he gives me a ride to the shuttle, in his SUV...)
I always forget to turn off the water while I brush my teeth... I am getting better about it.
I want to get to a place where I am neither conforming nor rebelling but simply being.

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Julie
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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby Julie » Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:10 pm UTC

sophyturtle wrote:I try
-I switched my work from normal printer paper to 30% recycled (I order for the lab)
-I use low watt (7) florescent bulbs in my house
-My ac is normally on "fan" mode, not actual AC mode. And it is off when I am not home (I leave the windows open for the cats)
-I don't drive (but my BF does :()
-Most of my food is organic
-I use reusable cotton pads for girl week
-I recycle at home (if you throw out recyclables in Cambridge they will stop taking your trash, HA!)
-I recycle paper and drink containers at work
-I try to unplug things that are not in use (DVD player, gamecube, etc.)
-I use cloth shopping bags

I ranked myself in the 3rd group, because I don't actually grow food or anything. I just did the little switches to help myself feel less guilty about being in this species.


Hmnn... I think you're a lot better than me. I grow vegetables and fruit (we have lettuce, raspberries, tomatoes, cucumbers, blueberries, hot/bell peppers, broccoli, squash, sugar snap peas, and all sorts of herbs growing right now). It sounds like a lot, but it takes up a small garden about 20 x 20 feet, except the berries. Blueberries are technically mini-blueberries and so grow on a large flower pot, and the raspberries have a patch about 30 x 2 feet. It's enough to have fresh produce every day in the summer and freeze some for winter.

I don't do it to be eco-friendly, though, we do it because it tastes better and is kind of a hobby.

Also, we do reusable bags and walk to places within 15 minutes... which is basically nowhere.

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sophyturtle
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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby sophyturtle » Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:13 pm UTC

I would LOVE the space for a 20x20 garden! That is basically the size of my yard, and I live in a building with 6 units holding 3 bedrooms each... They might mind if I turned the whole thing into a garden.
I could maybe get away with making part of it a garden, but the rats would probably eat anything I grew there...

Good part of city life, a 15 minute walk takes me to 2 central areas (with shopping and food and bars and tattoo parlors) and I tend to walk if it is 30 minutes or less. Over that and I grab the train.
I want to get to a place where I am neither conforming nor rebelling but simply being.

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Gunfingers
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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby Gunfingers » Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:20 pm UTC

I tried growing a garden once, not for any environmental reasons i just thought it'd be cool, but everything died. What's the opposite of a green thumb?

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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby tryptanymph » Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:51 pm UTC

Gunfingers wrote:I tried growing a garden once, not for any environmental reasons i just thought it'd be cool, but everything died. What's the opposite of a green thumb?

Black thumb. :D

Or, if you are talking visible spectrum, it'd be purple thumb (right?)
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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby Roland Lockheart » Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:56 pm UTC

I had a chemical-engineering major tell me my carbon footprint was significantly smaller because I was a vegetarian. I'm not sure how true it is, but that would be nice. I live in Iowa, so a lot of my food is grown nearby, a fact that I don't take for granted, it's so much better fresh.
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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby tehmikey » Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:03 pm UTC

I voted for eating otters. They are rather tasty.

I recycle when at work because it is convenient. I like the idea of conservation of animal habitats. If we do not protect their habitat and help the tasty animals survive, I may not have the pleasure of eating otters in the future.

I live close to work, and I would bike if it were not so dang hot outside. Is 90F outside with 54% humidity bad bike to work in collared shirt weather? When fall/winter get here, I plan to start.

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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:38 pm UTC

Roland Lockheart wrote:I had a chemical-engineering major tell me my carbon footprint was significantly smaller because I was a vegetarian. I'm not sure how true it is, but that would be nice. I live in Iowa, so a lot of my food is grown nearby, a fact that I don't take for granted, it's so much better fresh.

The idea being that meat requires another round of the actions required for a vegetarian diet, what with the need to grow grain and such to feed said animals, unless they're being raised in an area with winters mild enough to allow for year round grazing.
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KevorkianKat
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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby KevorkianKat » Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:07 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:
Roland Lockheart wrote:I had a chemical-engineering major tell me my carbon footprint was significantly smaller because I was a vegetarian. I'm not sure how true it is, but that would be nice. I live in Iowa, so a lot of my food is grown nearby, a fact that I don't take for granted, it's so much better fresh.

The idea being that meat requires another round of the actions required for a vegetarian diet, what with the need to grow grain and such to feed said animals, unless they're being raised in an area with winters mild enough to allow for year round grazing.


To piggyback, basically, it's FAR easier to grow a plant than grow a horse or a cow. Resource wise it isn't even close to being a fair comparison unless you're comparing "conventional" (i.e. factory farming) farming. So yes, vegetarians win :p

As Belial stated, everyone hurts things, just some more than others and we're always learning new things that may reverse thinking on one or another thing. Like city living can be very sustainable for large populations done correctly (good mass transit is a pretty big one).

Personally I'm at rank 2, but shooting for starting my own number one :)

Millah
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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby Millah » Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:53 pm UTC

I'd like to at some point be much more "sustainable" than i currently am. At some point i would like to have a house with solar panels on the roof to reduce/eliminate the electric bill. I would also like to get an electric car from Tesla (http://www.teslamotors.com) some day so i don't need to spend >$100 a week on gas as I currently am.

SecondTalon wrote:
Roland Lockheart wrote:I had a chemical-engineering major tell me my carbon footprint was significantly smaller because I was a vegetarian. I'm not sure how true it is, but that would be nice. I live in Iowa, so a lot of my food is grown nearby, a fact that I don't take for granted, it's so much better fresh.

The idea being that meat requires another round of the actions required for a vegetarian diet, what with the need to grow grain and such to feed said animals, unless they're being raised in an area with winters mild enough to allow for year round grazing.


This is why i "harvest" my own meat direct from mother nature.

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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby asanisimasa » Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:58 pm UTC

I don't really try to be sustainable, but in some ways I guess I am.

I like in a tiny studio apartment. I rarely use heat and don't have AC.
I don't really know/care that much where my food comes from. Maybe I should, but I don't pay much attention to that and just buy whatever they have at the local grocery store nearby.
I walk to work every day / rely on buses elsewhere. I don't have a car, too much hassle/money.

Most of my decisions are based on me being cheap and convenience.

If I could change anything, I guess I'd probably go down to the market more often and get food there. But I'm just so lazy sometimes..
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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby the Cow » Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:26 pm UTC

Sorry. I'm lazy and older. Most of the problems I am causing will be the grief of the young'uns soon to follow.
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b.i.o
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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby b.i.o » Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:08 pm UTC

Priuses


Am I the only one who thinks the correct pluralization of Prius should be Prii? (I realize why it's not, I just think it ought to be.)

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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby DesperatMezures » Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:16 pm UTC

b.i.o wrote:
Priuses


Am I the only one who thinks the correct pluralization of Prius should be Prii? (I realize why it's not, I just think it ought to be.)


I think so too. I don't know what Toyota's got to say on the issue, but it does follow from radius > radii.
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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby Hawknc » Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:13 am UTC

Millah wrote:I'd like to at some point be much more "sustainable" than i currently am. At some point i would like to have a house with solar panels on the roof to reduce/eliminate the electric bill. I would also like to get an electric car from Tesla (http://www.teslamotors.com) some day so i don't need to spend >$100 a week on gas as I currently am.

And only have to spend about $200,000 on a car. ;) I'm a fan of the Tesla, but I think I'll be waiting until a few more EVs come out in the next couple of years.

Back on topic: I put myself rank 3, because I don't yet have a veggie garden, though I plan to when I buy a property in a few years. I try to live as sustainably as I can in the city - catch public transport to work, use energy-efficient lights and appliances, turn off things instead of leaving them in standby, etc - but there is a limit to what can be reasonably done, unfortunately.

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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby Sulla158 » Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:05 am UTC

I went for the second to the top one. We have a garden and a bunch of fruit trees. We recycle which is a pain out here you have to haul it all in yourself. The main problem I have is driving a lot, but there's not too much I can do about it. No buses go within miles of my house and there's certainly nothing worthwhile in walking distance.
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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby Millah » Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:07 am UTC

Hawknc wrote:
Millah wrote:I'd like to at some point be much more "sustainable" than i currently am. At some point i would like to have a house with solar panels on the roof to reduce/eliminate the electric bill. I would also like to get an electric car from Tesla (http://www.teslamotors.com) some day so i don't need to spend >$100 a week on gas as I currently am.

And only have to spend about $200,000 on a car. ;) I'm a fan of the Tesla, but I think I'll be waiting until a few more EVs come out in the next couple of years.

Yeah, I'm going to wait until they start production of the "Whitestar", the $60k luxury sedan. The roadster is a little bit of out my price range, and by a little i mean a lot.

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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby '; DROP DATABASE;-- » Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:18 am UTC

I hate when people don't recycle. The other day I watched someone cut up a giant cardboard box and throw it in the dumpster, along with several scraps of paper... when they were standing right next to a cardboard bin. :evil: Argh! Stop killing my planet!
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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby beastie » Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:57 am UTC

I think I've improved in the last year, not that I produce a lot of waste on my own but small things like turning off the light whenever I leave a room (which was the hardest bit for me to do), using a canvas shopper for groceries, recycling glass, cardboard and plastic etc. - found paper&cardboard to be the easiest, all the leaflets and data I got from my bank the day I opened a bank account filled up a whole bag. All that waste when I could have just checked the internet for the same data! There should be an option for that but then people would start blaming companies that they don't educate them. :?

I usually walk and rarely take the bus...living in the city centre makes this so convenient, all I could need is within walking distance. When I do leave the city it's just by train, meaning I get to sleep through the entire journey! And I've started eating more organic and local produce....would grow vegetables but downside of being in the city is I have no garden! Boo.

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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby timt » Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:26 am UTC

We seriously need a cardboard dumpster a my work ( i work at a bottlestore), atleast 3 overflowing trolleys of boxes thrown out per day.

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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby '; DROP DATABASE;-- » Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:42 am UTC

Hell, the law should require it. And there should be recycle bins next to all the public trash cans. Actually let's just use Japan's waste management system. >_>

I walk everywhere (or occasionally take the bus if their retarded schedule happens to line up with mine). But then I can't afford a car anyway. :(
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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby Birdman » Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:55 am UTC

The good:

- I don't use air conditioning or heating at home;
- I walk to work (40 minutes), and catch public transport to other places in the city (living 4 minutes walk from the train station helps) - unless I need to transport uncarryable things like furniture;
- I recycle glass, paper, steel, and plastics at home. I recycle and re-use or entirely avoid paper at work.


The bad:

- I eat meat;
- I usually buy food from supermarkets (though where origins are specified and Australian options are available I choose those regardless of price);
- I routinely (~12 trips/year) fly 3500km across the country for a weekend visit on a whim;
- At work I'm responsible for lots of waste, using noxious chemicals that find their way into the greater environment (synthetic oils and greases, "biocides", any type of chemical you can cram into a spray can/pressure pack), throw away parts that took huge energy to create and transport from the US, drive many (10-40) small trips (<1km) that could be better travelled by foot or bicycle (company policy banned bicycles on base a few years ago), and frequently pump more than 150 000kg of kerosene into 747s about to cross the Pacific - sometimes entirely empty of passengers.


So, privately I'm not as bad as some (but much worse than I could be). I would grow my own vegetables but I live in an apartment with no direct sunlight. At least that means I don't have to worry about cooling the place. At work I have little choice to be an eco-vandal, considering the industry I work in. I picked option 3.

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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby BattleMoose » Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:13 am UTC

I guess I am not very sustainable at all, although I am a huge proponent of AGW, it largely comes down to lack of options.:/
(I live in South Africa, where we only burn coal and have no public transport)

Its hard to find motivation to live an energy efficient life when all your housemates think that AGW is a hoax and (they laugh at your attempts to be sustainable) to garner funding for researchers...... (I have tried, I have honestly tried and failed, again and again and again.....)

And in using energy, hvac, computers, or anything, could be perfectly sustainable behaviour, if we were more French like and built nuclear reactors. :/

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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby Iconoclast » Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:16 pm UTC

I guess I'm sustainable compared to other Americans. I eat local stuff in the summer (tastes better), conserve energy, and walk or take the bus everywhere. I do recycle, but I question whether paper recycling is really environmentally friendly.
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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby Xaldibik » Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:55 pm UTC

Considering I live with my parents and do not actually own a car(I am in highschool after all) my living conditions aren't really mine to control. I do, however, work with one of my teachers to manage a recycling program at my school.

When able I walk or bike anywhere I can, which is more or less required since a car is far beyond my budget. Beyond that I am not that eco-friendly outside of school. Being in Alaska most of my food is shipped long ways to me and really there's not much I can do about this, but during the summer I do get any local produce I can.

Things I'd change would probably be recycling. My family recycles quite sparingly, I have pretty much forced a "No plastics" rule upon my house though, and in the case someone does actually have a plastic bottle, I will bring it to my school to recycle if I can't force my parents to take me(I'd bike, but it's a long way).

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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:11 am UTC

I recycle most things, I grow my own vegetables, and I eat very little. On the other hand, most of what I eat can be described as "meat" and/or "meat-like substance", and I am not opposed to the occasional game of Piss in the Prius.
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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby Rippy » Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:25 am UTC

My family's terrible as far as sustainability goes. It honestly makes me sick (or irritated at the very least) when my mom buys some random thing that's a total waste. Like an electric fireplace that was used once all winter, and that one time was just turning it on to see if it worked.

We have a basement full of crap that never gets used. My dad isn't as bad, he's of the same opinion as me when it comes to useless purchases, but he's constantly buying electronics and gadgets he doesn't really need either. So that's probably a lot of batteries and circuit boards wasted right there. Plus he has about 4 PCs running 24/7 in our house alone (firewall box, his computer, another workstation in the basement, and formerly a printserver).

As for food, well, a trip to the grocery store is basically a bi-monthly occurence, meaning we usually end up with too much food and it goes bad, and we rely far too much on frozen foods and shit like that. We have a freezer in the basement full of such things that I basically ferry things into but from which very little escapes, because noone comes down to the basement to look at what's in there. We also have a fridge down here that holds almost exclusively pop cans (ice cubes mb?)

My pleas go pretty much unheard, so I've basically just resolved to do things much better when I move out. I'm not saying that I don't do any unsustainable things, I'm just the only one in the family it seems who's willing to put some effort into it. I'm resolving to:

- Make the grocery store a daily trip if possible. This means I can buy exactly what I need more of (i.e. nachos or cheese) and get fresh fruits and veggies. Plus, then each trip is maybe 10 minutes, instead of the >1 hour event it is currently
- Be excruciatingly minimalist. Buy no thing that is not completely necessary. (apart from functional gadgets or computers, I can't give that up.)
- Use the AC and furnace sparingly. I'm happy wearing a sweater inside in the wintertime, and in the summer it just needs to be cool enough that I'm not sweating while trying to sleep.

So yeah, that was a pretty big rant. But there you have it, Rippy's sustainability: EPIC FAIL.

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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby jefflebow2 » Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:36 pm UTC

Drive car to grocery store once a week, use ac and computers power 15hrs/day.

Other than that pretty sustainable.

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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby EdgarJPublius » Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:39 pm UTC

I don't get where the 'eating meat=bad for the environment' thing comes from, since generally, you don't need gigantic combine harvesters etc. to eat meat, and really, if you don't kill cows to eat them, they'll just keep producing Methane. And, int he U.S. at least, there's enough land fertile enoygh for year round grazing, that little cattle-feed is shipped to meat producing farms.


My personal lifestyle is roughly 'sustainable' in that it can continue indefinitely until either I die or a destabilizingly large percentage of the world population does. If you mean 'how good is my lifestyle for the environment?'
My answer is 'not if I can help it'
I ride my bike everywhere, because I don't have a car, though I yearn for one. I use re-useable grocery bags because they fit easily in the basket on my bike, are easier to carry, and don't rip in the middle of the road.
I don't use my air conditioner much, because I don't want to have to make a decision between paying the electricity bill or eating for a month.

I don't grow my own food because I live in an apartment.
There is a community garden on campus, but to date I have been too lazy/busy with class work, to find out who to talk to about getting a plot, though if I did have the opportunity, all I would likely grow there would be tomatoes and various peppers, these being the only 'vegetables' I regularly consume that taste enough better from store-bought alternatives to justify the effort.
I would compost but I don't have a garden.

There's a recycling dumpster or whatever somewhere on campus, but I don't know where it is, and it's probably farther away than the two dumpsters I normally use.

I drink mostly bottled water in the summer, because Dallas water is mostly undrinkable when the temperature goes up and the reservoirs go down. (at least to me and other people I know up here who grew up drinking the much superior Austin municipal water) strangely, most of the bottle water I get seems to have been bottled in Dallas or Fort Worth.
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Sandry
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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby Sandry » Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:15 pm UTC

I am, unfortunately, a bit too lazy to be really where I should be on this.

Regarding the comment on why vegetarianism would be more sustainable, etc... if there were less demand for meat, it wouldn't mean more cows wandering around producing more methane. It would mean people growing fewer cows. Cows being farmed for meat wouldn't have such a long lifespan that dwindling demand would take too long to lead to dwindling supply.

Aaanyhow. I walk or take public transit virtually everywhere. I'd say my housemate and I use her car about once or twice per week, typically (to get groceries, usually, or to go to friends' houses who live outside of the Boston metropolitan area). We do a fair amount of recycling, probably about 75% as much as we should. No air conditioning, we tend mostly not to buy pre-made foods with lots of packaging. We're both vegetarians, we make an active attempt to buy local, at least regarding produce. It's a bit less clear with finished products.

Still, though, I buy too much stuff that isn't very green, I have a really lamentable tendency to buy lunch at my work cafeteria, which is totally not green enough, and I am in pretty much no way actively attempting to make anything better.
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Rippy
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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby Rippy » Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:44 pm UTC

EdgarJPublius wrote:I don't get where the 'eating meat=bad for the environment' thing comes from, since generally, you don't need gigantic combine harvesters etc. to eat meat, and really, if you don't kill cows to eat them, they'll just keep producing Methane. And, int he U.S. at least, there's enough land fertile enoygh for year round grazing, that little cattle-feed is shipped to meat producing farms.

There's a couple reasons. First of all, because of all the energy spent by the grass and the cow for non-useful purposes, such as breathing, moving around, and producing non-digestible tissues. If I remember it right, each step you go reduces the energy you get tenfold. So vegetables, being one step, is better than cow, which is two (grass -> cow). Even worse is eating carnivores.

That one's more of a theoretical problem though. It also requires a lot of fossil fuels to transport the meat, raising the animals creates lots of problematic animal wastes, and those farms tend to use large amounts of water.

..I still won't give up meat though.

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Gelsamel
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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby Gelsamel » Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:53 pm UTC

I reakon I can be sustained for about 80 years.
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EdgarJPublius
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Re: How sustainable are you?

Postby EdgarJPublius » Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:16 pm UTC

Rippy wrote:
EdgarJPublius wrote:I don't get where the 'eating meat=bad for the environment' thing comes from, since generally, you don't need gigantic combine harvesters etc. to eat meat, and really, if you don't kill cows to eat them, they'll just keep producing Methane. And, int he U.S. at least, there's enough land fertile enoygh for year round grazing, that little cattle-feed is shipped to meat producing farms.

There's a couple reasons. First of all, because of all the energy spent by the grass and the cow for non-useful purposes, such as breathing, moving around, and producing non-digestible tissues. If I remember it right, each step you go reduces the energy you get tenfold. So vegetables, being one step, is better than cow, which is two (grass -> cow). Even worse is eating carnivores.

That one's more of a theoretical problem though. It also requires a lot of fossil fuels to transport the meat, raising the animals creates lots of problematic animal wastes, and those farms tend to use large amounts of water.

..I still won't give up meat though.


that doesn't necessarily follow, for one, you can't judge environmental damage based on energy used alone, For another outside of mostly theoretical energy used by the animal/vegetable itself for it's own growth/development, more environmental is done by producing vegetables, which require expensive and environmentally damaging chemicals (pesticides, fungicides, etc.), expensive and high carbon footprint machinery,(combine harvesters et. al.) etc. which meat, being ambulatory, doesn't require(forgetting transport to market, as it's a cost shared by meat and vegetables, and therefore moot).

Additionally, the 'more steps between the ground and your food the worse' is a flawed argument, meat contains nutrients not found and/or difficult to obtain from plants, in general, you would have to acquire more, of many different kinds of plant matter to get a similar benefit to eating meat+vegetables.

And most animal waste can be directly converted to things like fertilizer to enrich soil, whereas the only waste plants leave is 'dead' soil that needs to be fertilized or planted with a rejuvenating crop.
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