The Flood versus EVERYTHING

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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby Berengal » Sun Jul 27, 2008 6:37 am UTC

Vieto wrote:
crp wrote:
TheKrikkitWars wrote:Grues, Grues would f**k the Flood up good and proper.


Not if they had lanterns!


Your forgetting, lanterns eventually burn out.

Not only lanterns, but everything everywhere will eventually return to darkness at the end of the life of the universe. Everything except grues.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby BlackSails » Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:25 pm UTC

Xbehave wrote:
neverender wrote:well you seem to be biased against regenerative health, but as a certified FPS noob (could never play any one long enough to get good at it) i can tell you the skilled player vs less skilled player situation occurs exactly the same way in 90% of the FPS's.


I have nothing against some regenerative health, but some permanent damage is needed.


Heath does not regenerate. Only shields regenerate.

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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby LE4dGOLEM » Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:55 pm UTC

Dave Rapp wrote:
Lozzy-G wrote:Sorry, but the Daleks would exterminate the flood. they are completely sealed, so no chance of the spores getting to them, technologicaly advanced (time travel, moving planets etc) and the most hateful and evil creatures ever to exist. Personaly, i would say they are the best villians ever.


I don't watch Doctor Who, but I challenge this claim. Wiki doesn't say anything about Daleks being completely indestructible, and if it breaks, the flood will eventually find a way to break it. Also, Palpatine was the most hateful and evil creature ever to exist.


They aren't completely indestructible, but they're pretty close to it. You need "I SEE EACH OF YOUR INDIVIDUAL ATOMS. AND I DIVIDE THEM" powers/tech to do it, and if they do crack the armour you've still got a hole large enough for an infection form to break through, and thus a hole large enough for a dalek to kill it back. Palpatine was, I daresay, not bent on destroying every living thing in existence, as the Daleks, cybermen, necrons and tyranids are.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby Sardaukar » Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:32 pm UTC

Berengal wrote:
Vieto wrote:
crp wrote:
TheKrikkitWars wrote:Grues, Grues would f**k the Flood up good and proper.


Not if they had lanterns!


Your forgetting, lanterns eventually burn out.

Not only lanterns, but everything everywhere will eventually return to darkness at the end of the life of the universe. Everything except grues.


You also have to figure in the probability that Flood spores will consume Zork (Hey, universe is big enough and all that...) and assimilate someone who can cast Frotz.

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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby Tyr_oathkeeper » Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:12 pm UTC

I'm thinking jedi because the lightsaber would work wonders on they flood, + the Jedi would wear belts that bert thier bodies if they die. Also Halo seems to show that a few awsome people are better that hords of reanimatable troops. If they could get the CIS to lend some battle droids though....

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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby scarecrovv » Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:36 pm UTC

I agree with the view expressed earlier. Q will just yawn and the flood will vanish instantly. Then he'll go and mess with Captain Picard's head again, just for fun.

Also, you can't just ignore the potential of Galaxia from the foundation series. When they get that finished, they'll be pretty much unstoppable.

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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby Xbehave » Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:57 pm UTC

LE4dGOLEM wrote:They aren't completely indestructible, but they're pretty close to it. You need "I SEE EACH OF YOUR INDIVIDUAL ATOMS. AND I DIVIDE THEM" powers/tech to do it, and if they do crack the armour you've still got a hole large enough for an infection form to break through, and thus a hole large enough for a dalek to kill it back. Palpatine was, I daresay, not bent on destroying every living thing in existence, as the Daleks, cybermen, necrons and tyranids are.

Not really split atoms indestructible. In the original episodes they couldn't even walk off metal tracks, even in later episodes all you need to do is mash potato them in the viewer hole then use some lockpicking skills to open up the armour (granted this is a lot easier with a sonic screw driver than without). As or daleks vs flood, well it depends if the spores could get into the armour through the breathing apparatus (do they even have that) but once inside the flood maybe able to operate the dalek machine, if they can then id guess the flood could take the daleks (assuming there is a way into thier suites)

breathing hole big enough for flood spores + minds smart enough to use dalek machine = flood win
any other system = dalek win
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby fishyfish777 » Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:36 pm UTC

Master Chief win :D
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby Popidge » Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:15 pm UTC

Tell you what you wouldn't see...

Flood Vs. Raptor

Simply because The Flood know that Raptors aren't to be fucked with. And Raptors couldn't give a crap about little gribbly-parisitc things.

But both know that Human = Tasty. I believe it's time to reformulate my Raptor/Zombie escape plans to incorporate the possiblity of The Flood...
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby Jenner » Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:00 am UTC

Endless Mike wrote:Apparently they can beat Iowa.


and Ohio, lawl.

Nanomachines > Flood.

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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby Babam » Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:35 am UTC

Sorry, but the flood don't need to feed, they just have the urge to feed. So they can't be starved, they infect everything, and can be brought back to life. And to rape grammar and sentance structure here. Graveminds+Flood=Unfucking stoppable. The flood can fly huge fleets of ships, hell they took over the Coveneants world ship, so flying planets would be fucked.

Flood win in the end. Even if we all an hero, they will wait and wait and wait and wait and wait for the new seeds of life to be planted, and they shall reign.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby Xbehave » Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:24 pm UTC

nuke from orbit, so anything with super nukes.
OR deathstar anything the flood are on.
OR unmand attack vehicles/robots
OR go back to before they had a hivemind and stop it forming (daleks or dr who)
OR just about any group of heros able to hold them off long enough to kill the hivemind

basically the flood arn't that good and neither is halo.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby Babam » Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:14 pm UTC

The hivemind? Your talking like there is a single Gravemind. There are multiple graveminds, in fact in the first halo the big lump thing was a forming Gravemind. Even if you did take out the gravemind you'd still be left with a whole bunch of pissed off feral flood who want pieces for a new Gravemind.
And the forerunners were capable of time travel mind you{{fact}}, and they couldn't do what you suggested.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby ACU-LP » Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:52 am UTC

Slight necro.
The flood would own.
Think; if the flood took over, say Sydney in Australia. The number of people there and rate of infection, (and automated nuke defense systems, etc), would allow them to have a feaking insane number of flood-zombies etc before an assault could be made upon them. They'd also have numerous graveminds.
That many graveminds in one place would allow them to either generate their own defensive technology, or replicate ours, or come up with some other kind of owning scheme.
If they took over china, that is something between 1.3-2 billion people (at last check). Now, at most, I master chief fought 200 flood in Halo 2.
2 billion?
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby Ratio » Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:04 pm UTC

The flood verses Master Chief, who would win there guys?


Guys?

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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby ACU-LP » Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:19 pm UTC

Ratio wrote:The flood verses Master Chief, who would win there guys?


Guys?
When there's 200, master chief. When there's 2 billion, nobody.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby GameFreak » Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:16 am UTC

The X-parisites from metroid fusion. Or failing that... Bruce Schneier
EDIT: Wait what happend to the post?
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby ACU-LP » Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:26 am UTC

Indeed, imagine an SA-X level parasite that copied itself at the rate of the flood.
Also, you have discovered a wordfilter.
Also, necro.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby GameFreak » Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:13 am UTC

ACU-LP wrote:Indeed, imagine an SA-X level parasite that copied itself at the rate of the flood.
Also, you have discovered a wordfilter.
Also, necro.


By the time I saw your response I had the wordfilter part figured out.
Also, what do you mean by 'necro'?
NVM I figured that out too.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby ACU-LP » Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:19 am UTC

Also, I think that we have a new contender for taking down the flood; The CORE from Total Annihilation; they are consciousness transferred from flesh to machines, so they are capable of full conscious thought, but also unable to be infected. And they have the D-gun.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby Babam » Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:42 pm UTC

ACU-LP wrote:Also, I think that we have a new contender for taking down the flood; The CORE from Total Annihilation; they are consciousness transferred from flesh to machines, so they are capable of full conscious thought, but also unable to be infected. And they have the D-gun.

Flood can infect machines, see image
High Charity (The Covenant Capital ship world city)
Before Flood
Image
After Flood
*Crap my google fu is failing me, can some one find it? The infected version of High Charity in H3*
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby ACU-LP » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:18 am UTC

But that took a gravemind and lots of time. And cortana was in there who could possibly have helped them. Also, to my knowledge (I haven't played halo 3, so correct me if I'm wrong) they just took over the ship and its controls and didn't actually 'infect' it to the full meaning of the word. Also, the core are massive armies of robots; you can't infect that many that quickly. And even if you started to; their commander just uses the disintegrator gun on anything in sight.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby Pa-Patch » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:24 am UTC

Zerg could take em, largely on the grounds that Kerrigan doesn't waste her time speaking in iambic pentameter.
Also, I'd like to see any of the flood take on an ultralisk.

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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby Babam » Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:58 am UTC

Pa-Patch wrote:Zerg could take em, largely on the grounds that Kerrigan doesn't waste her time speaking in iambic pentameter.
Also, I'd like to see any of the flood take on an ultralisk.

The pure forms could do it, Tons of tiny flood swarm them with guns, and the turret flood give back up.
Besides if the Zerg assimilate the Flood, well we all lose >.>, or if the flood assimilate the Zerg. I do think the combined might of a bunch of Graveminds could overpower karrigan and take over the zerg hive mind.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby ash.gti » Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:01 am UTC

You guys all know that Da Orks would stop everything else right?

I mean its not like you can get rid of them once you have one on your planet, its screwed.

Even if you kill a few of them, the second they die they'll just release their spores and then its just a matter of time before the infestation overtakes the planet.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby ACU-LP » Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:06 am UTC

How about the nashta verada. I'm spelling it wrong, but they are things that live in shadow, sometimes 'seen' as dust particles. The devour flesh damn near instantly.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby GoC » Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:59 pm UTC

Babamthegrunt wrote:
ACU-LP wrote:Also, I think that we have a new contender for taking down the flood; The CORE from Total Annihilation; they are consciousness transferred from flesh to machines, so they are capable of full conscious thought, but also unable to be infected. And they have the D-gun.

Flood can infect machines, see image

Which is completely and utterly stupid IMHO. It wouldn't work in more or less any other universe with sane laws of physics.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby beanjavert » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:41 am UTC

What if a headcrab got on the body of a Flood zombie? They both manipulate the brain stem and CNS... would they just send conflicting orders, rendering the host useless? Or would one of them eventually wise use and take on the other?

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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby ACU-LP » Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:51 am UTC

Or would they realise their predicament and come to a form of treaty; you get some, I get some, then we take over the universe.
Then the flood would kill the headcrabs as there are just too any of them. And the flood can wield guns.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby MaestroManDan » Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:54 pm UTC

Not to be rude but you guys haven't seen a BattleMech in action. Particularly an FS9-S Firestarter (among others): 35 tons of armor, plasma- and laser-gouting weapons, and anger. Plus the fact that they are completely capable of continuous filtering of air on ultra-high toxicity atmosphere and have internal O2 tanks for underwater or space. Add in the fact that this is what the footsoldier looks like and you know for sure that the Flood doesn't stand a chance on the ground.

Then comes space combat. I'm just linking to a list of the variety of ships available for butchering the Flood.

In conclusion, BattleTech's weapons and armor pwn the Flood. I make a personal guarantee that if these guys are your shock troops then you win. Period.

Revel in the inferiority of your anti-Flood capability.

Source.

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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby Babam » Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:15 am UTC

Cough... Well.. hmm where to start.
Lets Say we are talking about a FULL BLOWN Flood assault, and your universes entire army just happens to be in one place.
Even if you were able to "fight back" against the flood, flood grow and multiply faster then you could produce armor and mechas. It would be a battle of attrition and the flood would win. Sure you might be "winning" for a while, but you will fall.
Seriously a civilization with Mother Effing Time Travel couldn't take these guys out. Think about it.
ash.gti wrote:You guys all know that Da Orks would stop everything else right?

I mean its not like you can get rid of them once you have one on your planet, its screwed.

Even if you kill a few of them, the second they die they'll just release their spores and then its just a matter of time before the infestation overtakes the planet.

The flood do not kill, the flood infect and feed.
Da Orks would be infected
A corrupted Ork with his spore potential infected with a flood=Even faster flood production.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby GoC » Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:15 pm UTC

Babamthegrunt wrote:Cough... Well.. hmm where to start.
Lets Say we are talking about a FULL BLOWN Flood assault, and your universes entire army just happens to be in one place.
Even if you were able to "fight back" against the flood, flood grow and multiply faster then you could produce armor and mechas. It would be a battle of attrition and the flood would win. Sure you might be "winning" for a while, but you will fall.
Seriously a civilization with Mother Effing Time Travel couldn't take these guys out. Think about it.

More evidence for the very poor design of this universe. Time-travel is always a win for the side that has it if it isn't completely stupid. No ifs or buts.
There is an upper limit to how much they can reproduce because in most universes you can't convert non-organic matter to organic matter.
Then there's the fact that quite a few SF empires are completely immune to anything the flood can throw at them, and without stealing ships the flood can't travel.
Thirdly, with a large force it is quite possible to destroy an exponentially growing species.

Da Orks would be infected

A statement. One I'd disagreee with as would many other people.
As stated earlier most things with super-powered immune systems can beat it.

You sound a bit... fanboyish? :?
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby Babam » Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:37 pm UTC

GoC wrote:
Babamthegrunt wrote:Cough... Well.. hmm where to start.
Lets Say we are talking about a FULL BLOWN Flood assault, and your universes entire army just happens to be in one place.
Even if you were able to "fight back" against the flood, flood grow and multiply faster then you could produce armor and mechas. It would be a battle of attrition and the flood would win. Sure you might be "winning" for a while, but you will fall.
Seriously a civilization with Mother Effing Time Travel couldn't take these guys out. Think about it.

More evidence for the very poor design of this universe. Time-travel is always a win for the side that has it if it isn't completely stupid. No ifs or buts.
There is an upper limit to how much they can reproduce because in most universes you can't convert non-organic matter to organic matter.
Then there's the fact that quite a few SF empires are completely immune to anything the flood can throw at them, and without stealing ships the flood can't travel.
Thirdly, with a large force it is quite possible to destroy an exponentially growing species.

Da Orks would be infected

A statement. One I'd disagreee with as would many other people.
As stated earlier most things with super-powered immune systems can beat it.

You sound a bit... fanboyish? :?

I do admit I do sound a bit fan boyish, I just did a read over of this thread and A) No where it was stated that something with a powerfull immune system could stop the flood and B) Even if some one had said that, they would be wrong.
The flood infect not in a viral way, the infection form attacks, burrows it self into the chest cavity, taps into the nervous system and takes over. Then it will begin "floodifying" the host.
Some times the infection is botched, ala Jenkins in the Halo books.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby GoC » Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:19 pm UTC

Babamthegrunt wrote:I do admit I do sound a bit fan boyish, I just did a read over of this thread and A) No where it was stated that something with a powerfull immune system could stop the flood and B) Even if some one had said that, they would be wrong.
The flood infect not in a viral way, the infection form attacks, burrows it self into the chest cavity, taps into the nervous system and takes over. Then it will begin "floodifying" the host.
Some times the infection is botched, ala Jenkins in the Halo books.

The infection form is composed of cells. These cells can be attacked by white blood cells and killed. Unless it's surrounded by a skin of dead cells in which case it won't get through most filters and things with insane immune systems still kill it (like Schlock from Schlock Mercenary, though he's immune anyway so it's irrelevant). And once it tries to tap in, it has now exposed the neurons doing the tap-in to attack. These white cell attackers can then go up the nerves into the main body and start their killing.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby Babam » Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:09 pm UTC

Good point, but flood infection occurs rapidly, yes in the end the immune system might win, but so much of the body would of been converted that it would consume it's self. The only thing that might help you is to have Boren's Syndrome But if you have a super immune system I doubt you could receive it.
Still the flood kill anything they can't use, so you would still be in danger.
And immune systems aren't that useful after death after a long enough period of time has passed. Besides the flood could still "harvest" more troops from other worlds and pull off a major zerg rush. One thing I never want to see:Flood who have gained control of Mechas. *shudder*
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby GoC » Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:17 pm UTC

Depends on the scale of the infection really and how fast the immune system generates antibodies. No disease is deadly with just a few pathogens but one of those bloated legged creatures... And if you've got some creatures with immune systems beyond anything found on earth they could defeat even fairly large incursions.
Besides, the whole point is irrelevant as most sci-fi armies use filters and armor. This also means that any civilians they get from other worlds won't be very effective against the intelligent troops in power armor.

I'd love to see the flood using mechas. They're ridiculously inefficient for their cost and the good guys can continue to use their "outmoded" tanks. :twisted:

Your comment on mechas makes it fairly clear that you consider coolness the primary factor for determining the power of something. Right?

Note: A species whose method of attack is biological will never triumph on the battlefield against a technologically advanced species if the battlefield uses the laws of physics (or a close varient thereof) of our universe. And I'm not talking about quantum physics, I'm talking Newton.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby bigglesworth » Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:44 pm UTC

I think the Necrons would consider the Flood a prime example of why organics are more trouble than they're worth.

Flayer guns + living metal. Interesting to see what they could try against that.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby Babam » Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:54 am UTC

GoC wrote:Depends on the scale of the infection really and how fast the immune system generates antibodies. No disease is deadly with just a few pathogens but one of those bloated legged creatures... And if you've got some creatures with immune systems beyond anything found on earth they could defeat even fairly large incursions.
Besides, the whole point is irrelevant as most sci-fi armies use filters and armor. This also means that any civilians they get from other worlds won't be very effective against the intelligent troops in power armor.

I'd love to see the flood using mechas. They're ridiculously inefficient for their cost and the good guys can continue to use their "outmoded" tanks. :twisted:

Your comment on mechas makes it fairly clear that you consider coolness the primary factor for determining the power of something. Right?

Note: A species whose method of attack is biological will never triumph on the battlefield against a technologically advanced species if the battlefield uses the laws of physics (or a close varient thereof) of our universe. And I'm not talking about quantum physics, I'm talking Newton.

I do not consider "coolness" When I think about power. Flood in Mecha would be kinda scary(Imagine seeing one of your own machines covered a fleshy mass with tendrils and all what not coming off of it while infection forms spew out of it's once familiar cockpit and all of it's remaining weaponry is unleashed upon you. I think you would shit brix the first few times), but I didn't say it would be the worst thing in the world. Also when you say "Oh well we have armor yay!" The flood do not use just bio/melee weaponry.
Flood on their own can
A) Wield weapons and operate machinery that their host could use/operate
Flood with a gravemind
B) Pretty much use damn most every thing, seeing as the gravemind has the collective knowledge of any organism the flood have infected.
The flood do not purely use biological warfare and can still prevail against armored units IE hmm the Master Chief in powered armor with shielding and he can still die to flood. (I do realize but this is game balance, but still the concept is the same powered armor!= win against the flood)
Also another point about powered armor, shielded armor: The elites had powered/shielded armor along with the brutes and they still were infected and they were a supposedly technologically advanced race.
The flood will fuck your shit up, plain and simple.

bigglesworth wrote:I think the Necrons would consider the Flood a prime example of why organics are more trouble than they're worth.

Flayer guns + living metal. Interesting to see what they could try against that.


Necrons I could see being a nice piece of competitoin against the flood, if the flood could find the heart of the Necrons (if I'm getting my lore right) and take out the production/self repair systems the flood could stand a chance.

It would be a very interesting fight to see though.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby ACU-LP » Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:54 am UTC

GoC wrote:More evidence for the very poor design of this universe. Time-travel is always a win for the side that has it if it isn't completely stupid. No ifs or buts.
Wrong: Time travel is a finicky thing; you cannot go back in time to stop something that has already occurred (paradox), which means that to effectively use it, you have to predict their every single move to be able to figure out how to counter it before it happens. But by doing so, you are no longer acting as you would normally and hence the future changes, hence the plan no longer works and you're fucked nonetheless. Foundation is a good example of the impossibilities of this; even if you could predict the movements of the mass, a single person can screw things up and you have very little knowledge of the individual in the future. Also, by knowing what comes ahead, you change it.
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Re: The Flood versus EVERYTHING

Postby GoC » Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:56 pm UTC

Babamthegrunt wrote:I do not consider "coolness" When I think about power. Flood in Mecha would be kinda scary(Imagine seeing one of your own machines covered a fleshy mass with tendrils and all what not coming off of it while infection forms spew out of it's once familiar cockpit and all of it's remaining weaponry is unleashed upon you. I think you would shit brix the first few times), but I didn't say it would be the worst thing in the world. Also when you say "Oh well we have armor yay!" The flood do not use just bio/melee weaponry.
Flood on their own can
A) Wield weapons and operate machinery that their host could use/operate
Flood with a gravemind
B) Pretty much use damn most every thing, seeing as the gravemind has the collective knowledge of any organism the flood have infected.
The flood do not purely use biological warfare and can still prevail against armored units IE hmm the Master Chief in powered armor with shielding and he can still die to flood. (I do realize but this is game balance, but still the concept is the same powered armor!= win against the flood)
Also another point about powered armor, shielded armor: The elites had powered/shielded armor along with the brutes and they still were infected and they were a supposedly technologically advanced race.
The flood will fuck your shit up, plain and simple.

And pray tell how biological tentacles can go through a decent chunk of titanium? It's simply impossible without drastic changes to physics and biology. And as such changes would not function in most other universes you then get a universe incompatability problem. Where taking a flood unit and putting it in another universe reduces it's effectiveness almost to the point of not working at all. And vice versa for things from other universes into the halo universe.
B) is also impossible in most universes unless you have the existance of a metaphysical mind of some sort to read.

Include a self-destruct on you units (not a big boom, just a disabling of weaponry and power) or simply make them inpenetrable to the flood in the first place. In order to get through your tank armor they first need a weapon so if you deny them that initial weapon and they're more or less harmless.
Some very low tech weapons are absolutely lethal to the flood. Phosphorus or napalm, anybody? And the high tech stuff is an instant kill.
They are particularily helpless in space battles (due to the difficulty in getting a reasonably intact starship) so they are more or less unable to go from planet to planet without being destroyed en-route.

ACU-LP wrote:
GoC wrote:More evidence for the very poor design of this universe. Time-travel is always a win for the side that has it if it isn't completely stupid. No ifs or buts.
Wrong: Time travel is a finicky thing; you cannot go back in time to stop something that has already occurred (paradox), which means that to effectively use it, you have to predict their every single move to be able to figure out how to counter it before it happens. But by doing so, you are no longer acting as you would normally and hence the future changes, hence the plan no longer works and you're fucked nonetheless. Foundation is a good example of the impossibilities of this; even if you could predict the movements of the mass, a single person can screw things up and you have very little knowledge of the individual in the future. Also, by knowing what comes ahead, you change it.

So your defence to "Time travel is an instant win." is "Time travel is impossible."? While it may be true it does not counter the original point in any way.
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