Gabber

It's only cool if no one's heard of it.

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ZLVT
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Gabber

Postby ZLVT » Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:20 pm UTC

For the discussion of the second greatest genre ever.
I got into Angerfist about a year ago and began branching out from there. So far I've only really liked Dutch gabber. Italian Gabber (specifically Art of Fighters) is too weak, it's either more like jumpstyle or hardstyle than gabber and UK gabber I just havn't really gelled with. French gabber scares me. Anyone got any good artists or remixes?

I'm a fan of Angerfist, RTC, Neophyte (so kill me, god some of their stuff is legit), Ophidian, Tomcat & Rudeboy, or whatever's on youtube.
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Dark Ragnarok
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Re: Gabber

Postby Dark Ragnarok » Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:55 pm UTC

You are actually more so bordering Hardcore and Hardstyle than gabber, but those definitely show Gabber influence. Check out LFO Demon, FFF, Society Suckers, Dj Sharpnel, Helblinde, and such. They all show gabber influence. Especially Sharpnel.

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Re: Gabber

Postby keith hic » Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:47 pm UTC

I was amazed by the amount of differing sub-styles in gabber (and other simular genres).

I'm sure I couldn't put the tracks in the right pots if asked.

I listen to a fair amount (well did) of breakcore (and related genres) and in the same way am confused. It good they exist as it show people aren't all making the same thing, but does it really need a new name or diffinition?

some on needs to draw me a tree showing how all the elctronic musics inter link (from a sound and ansestry point of view).

Start at Prog, industrial and Acid / rave and trace the routes to the thousands of style names now in use.......

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Re: Gabber

Postby ZLVT » Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:42 pm UTC

Dark Ragnarok wrote:You are actually more so bordering Hardcore and Hardstyle than gabber, but those definitely show Gabber influence. Check out LFO Demon, FFF, Society Suckers, Dj Sharpnel, Helblinde, and such. They all show gabber influence. Especially Sharpnel.


Cheers, I've found that the things I enjoy the most are the Angerfist tracks where he works with Rudeboy and Tomcat. I like that dancey element to it, but it also needs to have that same energy. So what would be PURE gabber (and like, not 10year old gabber, but contemporary)

Keith, there's a very popular techno site whose name I cant recall (DR probably knows it) it's been posted here a lot. While I found it mainly to be one guy bitching about all the different genres, it did give a rather nice tree.
If I can find it I'll post it.
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Re: Gabber

Postby Dark Ragnarok » Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:07 pm UTC

Hahaha I actually know what he's talking about.

Lemme some this up in a nut shell. When most electronic dance music starting evolving and developing scenes in the 90's they progressively went faster and faster up until about... 1998 or so.

Now here's the tricky part. At this point all the different genres started mixing into each other, and at this point it's very hard to tell who broke off where, especially since some genres stopped evolving for the longest time (Even died for awhile), and came back and then they *redub* the genre with a genre name used in the past.

Now about all genres do have a main difference but if anything you could call it a twerk. Breakcore I would argue has the most extensive branch list because the only real element it needs to retain to still be breakcore is the erratic snares and IDM feel. Even then, it still may not even be the true line since they may use bass kicks to do that job. But that concept can basically be applied to anything. Hence why Aphex Twin is both ambient and breakcore. Venetian Snares is breakcore and sometimes speedcore. FFF and LFO Demon are gabber and sometime breakcore.

If you want a general overview it's basically:

House/Techno>Trance>Hardstyle>Drum & Bass/Gabber (In a nutshell for the 90's more or less. At least this is what I've gathered from a lot of people.)

All the other genres basically are a variant or mix of one of these. However you do have genres nowadays like "hardcore" that is actually a re-inventive fusion of Happy Hardcore and Freeform. But hardcore a few years ago is more like Angerfist and Neophyte.

I should find that webpage though. It's a lot more accurate than I am.

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Re: Gabber

Postby ZLVT » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:40 am UTC

Dark Ragnarok wrote:If you want a general overview it's basically:

House/Techno>Trance>Hardstyle>Drum & Bass/Gabber (In a nutshell for the 90's more or less. At least this is what I've gathered from a lot of people.)

All the other genres basically are a variant or mix of one of these. However you do have genres nowadays like "hardcore" that is actually a re-inventive fusion of Happy Hardcore and Freeform. But hardcore a few years ago is more like Angerfist and Neophyte.


WTF?! I thought Hardcore was an über genre covering gabber, terrorcore, speedcore etc. Both happy and freeform (imho) are evil evil evil things.

Need to get into D&B...Sonic trip mebe...
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Re: Gabber

Postby Dark Ragnarok » Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:28 am UTC

ZLVT wrote:
Dark Ragnarok wrote:If you want a general overview it's basically:

House/Techno>Trance>Hardstyle>Drum & Bass/Gabber (In a nutshell for the 90's more or less. At least this is what I've gathered from a lot of people.)

All the other genres basically are a variant or mix of one of these. However you do have genres nowadays like "hardcore" that is actually a re-inventive fusion of Happy Hardcore and Freeform. But hardcore a few years ago is more like Angerfist and Neophyte.


WTF?! I thought Hardcore was an über genre covering gabber, terrorcore, speedcore etc. Both happy and freeform (imho) are evil evil evil things.

Need to get into D&B...Sonic trip mebe...


It is. Or rather, it is, but now they just added to it >.<. I just still call it "Freeform HHC"

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Re: Gabber

Postby keith hic » Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:32 pm UTC

Dark Ragnarok wrote:Lemme some this up in a nut shell. When most electronic dance music starting evolving and developing scenes in the 90's they progressively went faster and faster up until about... 1998 or so.

Now here's the tricky part. At this point all the different genres started mixing into each other, and at this point it's very hard to tell who broke off where, especially since some genres stopped evolving for the longest time (Even died for awhile), and came back and then they *redub* the genre with a genre name used in the past.


I think thats where i'm comming from. Back in 1990 you could hear a track and know which hole to put it in. then acid and rave and dance started to spilt and mix like mad. I start to notice this around 92/3 when jungle, drum and bass, gabber, techno etc started to split into smaller fractions. I gave up trying to pidgeon hole them at that point. now i just feel lost when some one says dutch hardstyle or some such.

It's worse now with the internet and the speed at which scenes are created, tracks are created and distributed and people get bored and move to the next thing.

I'm just getting old, but i kinda wish when some on says hardcore, I only have to work out if thats electronic based or guitar band type.

Going to go check some of the names you guys have mentioned, thou.

As for a tree, i was joking as would expect it to be so convaluted as to be impossible. but would love to see something like that if some ones has done one.

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Re: Gabber

Postby SirMustapha » Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:43 pm UTC

I'm all for variety, so I don't really care much about labels. When I think about listening to an electronic piece, I usually go "I'm thinking of the one that goes PSSHH-CRRRRK-TSH-PSH-B-B-B-FFFFT-SHHH-T-T-CREAK and such".

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Re: Gabber

Postby ZLVT » Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:34 pm UTC

But labels are good. I like both trance and hardcore but if I'm in a trance mood I don't want to put on some hardcore and vice versa. It's good to be able to differenceiate in general what's going on.
Sometimes I hate the way the elctronic scene works though. It's all nice and ismple in metal. Bands are groups of determned people who make original songs (usually) and they have a set bunch of songs periodically released on albums. It's all very simple. They was DJs do it still eludes me
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Re: Gabber

Postby SirMustapha » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:35 pm UTC

ZLVT wrote:But labels are good. I like both trance and hardcore but if I'm in a trance mood I don't want to put on some hardcore and vice versa. It's good to be able to differenceiate in general what's going on.


Yeah, true, but it all seems a little bizarre when everything must have a label attached to it. I mean, what kind of label would I have to attach to something like Augmatic Disport, by Autechre? Would I have to? Besides, the fact that those millions of labels exist make it seems like you have to fit in one of them if you want to make music; the fact that people don't should, in theory, instead of causing more labels to appear, cause labels to merge into bigger things so you could just consider a certain musician a mix of a little bit of X, a tad of Y, a bunch of Z or something like that. But, well, I have no idea, really.

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Re: Gabber

Postby ZLVT » Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:50 pm UTC

Well, I see what you mean. If I were a musician, I'd have no name, my albums would have no names, and the songs would have no names. It'd be up to the fans to call them whatever they want. Alas, this would make it less accessable.
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Re: Gabber

Postby SirMustapha » Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:37 pm UTC

ZLVT wrote:If I were a musician, I'd have no name, my albums would have no names, and the songs would have no names. It'd be up to the fans to call them whatever they want. Alas, this would make it less accessable.


Certainly would make it a lot more difficult to find on P2P networks and torrents (though that could be an advantage to record companies). But that's actually a cool concept, and I don't doubt someone already tried that before... Matter of fact, there are artists that seem to only give names to themselves, their albums and songs in order to differentiate them in some way.

But in terms of labels, I don't have many uses to them. I'm not saying that nobody should, though.

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Re: Gabber

Postby Dark Ragnarok » Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:01 am UTC

I think labels should only be used unofficially within EDM. And the only label that should be on CDs is "Electronica" or "Experimental", or something neutral.

The Record Companies will then be the ones to where people can go to to find their genre, so they may dub it something, but it won't be official.

This way labels can be used in discussion, yet it won't add that much confusion. If you like one type of music, you would know it by the label, not the genre.

I think thats the best solution to the problem.

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Re: Gabber

Postby keith hic » Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:05 am UTC

Dark Ragnarok wrote:The Record Companies will then be the ones to where people can go to to find their genre, so they may dub it something, but it won't be official.

I think thats the best solution to the problem.


I think to so extent that happens already. where a lable be come know for a sound or for a quality that people can trust the label for their fix.

creation and sarah records through outthe 90's are both good examples.

Warp in the late ninties were also of that way, but the down side is that when you have a change to the general sound of the roster people can get confused / upset.

Smaller lables (inc net lables) are often more varied in sound than the affore mentioned lables, so by trusting a lable, your really trusting the taste of the label manager etc. Good example of this would be the peoples trust mike P's tastes and hence trust in Planet-Mu out put, or Jason Forrest's tastes behind CRD. (to mention only 2 examples)

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Re: Gabber

Postby Sandry » Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:09 pm UTC

Dark Ragnarok wrote:I should find that webpage though. It's a lot more accurate than I am.

Sounds like you're talking about Ishkur's Guide to Electronic Music? I love that thing, but can't fit more than a tenth of it into my head at once.
He does not spout ever more, new stupidities. He "diversifies his wrongness portfolio."
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Re: Gabber

Postby ZLVT » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:36 am UTC

aye that's the one. Though him getting shitty at all the labels just annoyed me and the sample songs were all crap.
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