The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Aikanaro » Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:28 pm UTC

I hate myself for knowing this, but I seem to recall hearing somewhere that the first "pokeballs" (as in, devices that served the same function) ages ago were actually magical talismans of some sort, which means their modern equivalents are actually a form of highly advanced magitech or something.
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Jebobek » Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:43 pm UTC

First of all, we all should be ashamed of ourselves, but this is SO unofficially a thread where you drop your guard on not being into pokemon.

Second of all, Nintendo should be ashamed of using cop-out magic explanations for how things work in the world. Obviously there needs to be some rediculous and far-fetched sciencefictional reason.
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Yuri2356 » Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:00 pm UTC

Jebobek wrote:First of all, we all should be ashamed of ourselves, but this is SO unofficially a thread where you drop your guard on not being into pokemon.

Second of all, Nintendo should be ashamed of using cop-out magic explanations for how things work in the world. Obviously there needs to be some rediculous and far-fetched sciencefictional reason.

It's a teleporter. It scans the monster, deconstructs it, and stores it in memory for later use. Same technology they use for transporting monsters over the internets.

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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Jebobek » Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:34 pm UTC

Yuri2356 wrote:
Jebobek wrote:First of all, we all should be ashamed of ourselves, but this is SO unofficially a thread where you drop your guard on not being into pokemon.

Second of all, Nintendo should be ashamed of using cop-out magic explanations for how things work in the world. Obviously there needs to be some rediculous and far-fetched sciencefictional reason.

It's a teleporter. It scans the monster, deconstructs it, and stores it in memory for later use. Same technology they use for transporting monsters over the internets.
That sounds a little too Digimon-ish, but my idea is not better. Why do some pokemon (pikachu in the show) not like being in the pokeball? how do they force themselves out?
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Yuri2356 » Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:10 pm UTC

Jebobek wrote:
Yuri2356 wrote:
Jebobek wrote:First of all, we all should be ashamed of ourselves, but this is SO unofficially a thread where you drop your guard on not being into pokemon.

Second of all, Nintendo should be ashamed of using cop-out magic explanations for how things work in the world. Obviously there needs to be some rediculous and far-fetched sciencefictional reason.

It's a teleporter. It scans the monster, deconstructs it, and stores it in memory for later use. Same technology they use for transporting monsters over the internets.
That sounds a little too Digimon-ish, but my idea is not better. Why do some pokemon (pikachu in the show) not like being in the pokeball? how do they force themselves out?

Hmm... why would an animal be afraid of being engulfed in a sudden flash of light and then sealed in a tiny sphere? What possible reason could any creature have to be at all anxious about an object that appears to devour and regurgitate others on a regular basis? I can only wonder.

Capturing difficulties are easy- erratic movement makes them harder to scan and process. If the ball can't properly resolve the data , a failsafe causes it to eject the monster.

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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Jebobek » Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:07 pm UTC

So you're saying the monster turns into memory, but the memory inside can get pissed off and utilize some sort of mechanical energy within the ball so that the data cannot be retained? Perhaps, for the first minute, the monster is still an abominable congealed mass of biomatter and data that squirms with pain and/or discomfort? I could go with that.
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby lorenith » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:21 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:I didn't mean it was inhumane; I just thought it was slow and cumbersome to take pokemon in and out of the PC over and over again in an attempt to organize them.


Oh I didn't mean inhuman either, you just seemed to be picking on the whole idea of being able to cram pokemon into a digital medium.

They actually fixed the annoying box thing in generation two. You can move pokemon between boxes or your belt without taking them in and out of the PC.

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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby EmptySet » Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:20 am UTC

I believe that Nintendo's official explanation for Pokeballs is that they suck the Pokemon into some kind of pocket dimension which contains an environment which is comfortable and well-suited for Poke-habitation, and that Pokeballs are therefore not cruel. I still think sitting in a Pokeball in some trainer's basement for years has to be pretty boring, even if it is the equivalent of a five-star hotel. Unless all the captured Pokemon live in the same pocket universe, so it's just like being in a natural environment. You'd think that would result in status changes while they were stored, though...

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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby GhostWolfe » Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:25 am UTC

EmptySet wrote:I still think sitting in a Pokeball in some trainer's basement for years has to be pretty boring, even if it is the equivalent of a five-star hotel. Unless all the captured Pokemon live in the same pocket universe, so it's just like being in a natural environment.

Perhaps they go into stasis so they don't notice the time passing?

Being that Pikachu never liked being in his pokéball, I always assumed it was dark. Maybe a little chilly too.

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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Cynical Idealist » Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:50 am UTC

Jebobek wrote:I forget what reason they had for pokemon being able to fit into a pokeball. If pokemon turn into the size of what a DNA strand represents, then by a scale comparison, being in a Pokeball is like walking into the Disney Epcot globe, which would be empty inside. This is assuming that the pokemon DNA is placed in some sort of fluid medium to preserve the stability of the DNA double-helix, so that fluid also takes up space.

I like to assume that when the pokemon starts turning into the red glowey material before they fly into the ball, they are actually being incinerated and transfixed into a peice of DNA, attached with programming to remember how their health bar and skill numbers look. When the ball is opened the single DNA strand codes for cells that split apart and differentiate due to the natural enzyme gradients. The whole developmental change occurs in a rapid pace to trick the kids into thinking their squirtle is just popping out of the pokeball.

In reality, both the incineration and re-development is a painful and agonizing process which is just...just great.

Thank you for that mental image. Then, you run into the question of why there only seems to be one pokemon who despises being in a pokeball (Ash's pikachu).

Jebobek wrote:So you're saying the monster turns into memory, but the memory inside can get pissed off and utilize some sort of mechanical energy within the ball so that the data cannot be retained? Perhaps, for the first minute, the monster is still an abominable congealed mass of biomatter and data that squirms with pain and/or discomfort? I could go with that.

Damnit, that's an even worse image.

Yuri2356 wrote:Hmm... why would an animal be afraid of being engulfed in a sudden flash of light and then sealed in a tiny sphere? What possible reason could any creature have to be at all anxious about an object that appears to devour and regurgitate others on a regular basis? I can only wonder.

Capturing difficulties are easy- erratic movement makes them harder to scan and process. If the ball can't properly resolve the data , a failsafe causes it to eject the monster.

Okay, I like that explanation of the capturing difficulty. However, I can't believe nobody has even made reference to this. Surely I'm not the only person who has seen that?
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby GhostWolfe » Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:53 am UTC

I was more surprised no one referenced this.

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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Jebobek » Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:08 pm UTC

GhostWolfe wrote:
EmptySet wrote:I still think sitting in a Pokeball in some trainer's basement for years has to be pretty boring, even if it is the equivalent of a five-star hotel. Unless all the captured Pokemon live in the same pocket universe, so it's just like being in a natural environment.
Perhaps they go into stasis so they don't notice the time passing?
I would say that for the game world. In the show... either there's something malfunctioning in psyduck's ball or he knows exactly whats going on and will pop out at the worst time imaginable. (See: first season or so where he would repeatedly piss off Misty.)
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby hideki101 » Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:47 pm UTC

Jebobek wrote:
GhostWolfe wrote:
EmptySet wrote:I still think sitting in a Pokeball in some trainer's basement for years has to be pretty boring, even if it is the equivalent of a five-star hotel. Unless all the captured Pokemon live in the same pocket universe, so it's just like being in a natural environment.
Perhaps they go into stasis so they don't notice the time passing?
I would say that for the game world. In the show... either there's something malfunctioning in psyduck's ball or he knows exactly whats going on and will pop out at the worst time imaginable. (See: first season or so where he would repeatedly piss off Misty.)

I don't know about that. If they were in stasis, then poison wouldn't affect them outside of battle. Then again, I'm not really sure why poisoned pokemon take damage outside of battle, while burned pokemon don't.

In the manga, you can see the pokemon inside their pokeball, and they seem to be fine sitting there inside the ball. Apperently, trainers can give orders to their pokemon inside their ball, and the 'mon will obey as soon as they are released. Also, the pokemon can move around in the ball and make the ball roll around, like a hampster ball.
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby qinwamascot » Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:14 am UTC

4. Bikes cost 1,000,000 yen.


Lemonade costs 700. If we divide 1000000/700 we get that 1 bike costs approximately 1400 drinks of lemonade

I couldn't find any Lemonade vending machines, so I looked up prices for a gallon. this site says that I can make 96 8 ounce drinks of lemonade for $6. That means the average price of a drink is just over 6 cents.

I know from buying a bike that most bikes are at least $100. You are a 10 year old, so it may be cheaper, but we'll ignore that for now.

So if I do this division, I get that a bike costs about 1700 drinks of lemonade in the real world.

So if we use lemonade as our currency in both worlds, bikes are cheaper in the Pokemon world. Sure, Lemonade out of a vending machine would probably be somewhat more expensive than making it yourself, but not orders of magnitude. I chose lemonade because it's an item available in both worlds.

The rest of the criticisms are not valid either because Pokemon is awesome and thus no correct criticisms of it can exist. Q.E.D.
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Smiling Hobo » Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:01 am UTC

qinwamascot wrote:
4. Bikes cost 1,000,000 yen.


Lemonade costs 700. If we divide 1000000/700 we get that 1 bike costs approximately 1400 drinks of lemonade

I couldn't find any Lemonade vending machines, so I looked up prices for a gallon. this site says that I can make 96 8 ounce drinks of lemonade for $6. That means the average price of a drink is just over 6 cents.

I know from buying a bike that most bikes are at least $100. You are a 10 year old, so it may be cheaper, but we'll ignore that for now.

So if I do this division, I get that a bike costs about 1700 drinks of lemonade in the real world.

So if we use lemonade as our currency in both worlds, bikes are cheaper in the Pokemon world. Sure, Lemonade out of a vending machine would probably be somewhat more expensive than making it yourself, but not orders of magnitude. I chose lemonade because it's an item available in both worlds.

The rest of the criticisms are not valid either because Pokemon is awesome and thus no correct criticisms of it can exist. Q.E.D.
Actually, looking back at the games, it isn't 1,000,000 yen, it's 1,000,000 poke-points. So yeah, I guess the bike is technically pretty cheap, but seeing as the most the in-game trainer makes is ~300,000 poke-points, and also seeing as 99% of poke-world is unemployed, it's difficult to say what marketing demographic these bikes are aimed towards.

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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby michaelandjimi » Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:43 am UTC

qinwamascot wrote:
4. Bikes cost 1,000,000 yen.


Lemonade costs 700. If we divide 1000000/700 we get that 1 bike costs approximately 1400 drinks of lemonade

I couldn't find any Lemonade vending machines, so I looked up prices for a gallon. this site says that I can make 96 8 ounce drinks of lemonade for $6. That means the average price of a drink is just over 6 cents.

I know from buying a bike that most bikes are at least $100. You are a 10 year old, so it may be cheaper, but we'll ignore that for now.

So if I do this division, I get that a bike costs about 1700 drinks of lemonade in the real world.

So if we use lemonade as our currency in both worlds, bikes are cheaper in the Pokemon world. Sure, Lemonade out of a vending machine would probably be somewhat more expensive than making it yourself, but not orders of magnitude. I chose lemonade because it's an item available in both worlds.
I find that number for lemonade very cheap. Around where I live, you can get a can of lemonade for about $1. A good bike, by my estimate, would cost maybe $400. So that's 400 drinks of lemonade. Admittedly, the Pokémon bike isn't very many orders of magnitude above the price in our world, but that bike better have, like, jet packs and a choice of paint jobs.

Some flaws I noticed:

1) The towns are vastly underpopulated. I had a look at my Sapphire game, and there were three houses in the home town. 2 people lived in each of them, except my own because I'd buggered off to win the game. There were 3 people loitering outside who didn't seem to have homes. That's a population of 8. I couldn't be bothered to check, but I'm pretty sure there wouldn't be more than, say, 20 in a town. Not to mention there certainly aren't enough houses to take all of the Pokémon Trainers out and about.

2) Gyms Sequentially Increasing in Power. Seriously, what the hell? These guys are meant to be the best of the best and the first gym has about Lv 15 Pokémon?
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby sakeniwefu » Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:18 pm UTC

michaelandjimi wrote:2) Gyms Sequentially Increasing in Power. Seriously, what the hell? These guys are meant to be the best of the best and the first gym has about Lv 15 Pokémon?

I guess it's easier to be the best trainer of your region in a place where people have to spar with level 2-5 pokemons.
It could also be that all gym leaders' Pokemons got a virus in a recent Pokemon tournament and died shortly before you start your adventures so they haven't had time to train their new ones. As time goes on, they get progressively stronger.
Pokemon land is very scary, why are humans the only non-pokemon animal? There are prehistoric pokemons, so it must be humans who came later and started enslaving the native creatures. Alternatively, humans are pokemons and just waiting their turn to be enclosed into a pokeball.

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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby qinwamascot » Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:43 pm UTC

sakeniwefu wrote:
michaelandjimi wrote:2) Gyms Sequentially Increasing in Power. Seriously, what the hell? These guys are meant to be the best of the best and the first gym has about Lv 15 Pokémon?

I guess it's easier to be the best trainer of your region in a place where people have to spar with level 2-5 pokemons.
It could also be that all gym leaders' Pokemons got a virus in a recent Pokemon tournament and died shortly before you start your adventures so they haven't had time to train their new ones. As time goes on, they get progressively stronger.
Pokemon land is very scary, why are humans the only non-pokemon animal? There are prehistoric pokemons, so it must be humans who came later and started enslaving the native creatures. Alternatively, humans are pokemons and just waiting their turn to be enclosed into a pokeball.


I seem to remember a pokemon episode where they mentioned that birds ate insects, just like flying pokemon are supereffective against bug pokemon. So they might have real animals; we just haven't seen any. Of course, they don't need to have any, because pokemon are infinitely cooler.

As for the gyms, this never made a lot of sense to me. The lasses you fight towards the end of the game could destroy the first gym leader, yet he is a professional trainer and they just walk through tall grass all day. Maybe the gym leaders don't actually have any pokemon, so they steal them from nearby trainers right before you battle. This would explain why gyms at the beginning are so pathetic (except in Ruby and Sapphire when you fight your dad. That doesn't make sense even with this theory)

I find that number for lemonade very cheap. Around where I live, you can get a can of lemonade for about $1. A good bike, by my estimate, would cost maybe $400. So that's 400 drinks of lemonade. Admittedly, the Pokémon bike isn't very many orders of magnitude above the price in our world, but that bike better have, like, jet packs and a choice of paint jobs.


This is admittedly true, but then we have to look at it in terms of supply and demand. If everyone in the world either stands still or walks randomly around a 4x4 patch of grass, there isn't really any need to get a bike. If fewer people purchase bikes, the price per bike will go up. In addition, the demand for bikes is pretty inelastic; I can't really be part of a biker gang or go down cycling road without one, so we'd expect the price to go up by a lot.

1) The towns are vastly underpopulated. I had a look at my Sapphire game, and there were three houses in the home town. 2 people lived in each of them, except my own because I'd buggered off to win the game. There were 3 people loitering outside who didn't seem to have homes. That's a population of 8. I couldn't be bothered to check, but I'm pretty sure there wouldn't be more than, say, 20 in a town. Not to mention there certainly aren't enough houses to take all of the Pokémon Trainers out and about.


Perhaps when everyone spends all day every day walking in an area that's no bigger than my dorm room, they don't really need a house. What's weirder to me is that people stay in the same area and it's always raining, yet they don't use umbrellas. They never look wet either. Maybe they are really robots made out of plastic, and you are the only real person in the world? That revelation totally changes how I interpret pokemon as a whole for the rest of my life.

On a more serious note, has anyone noticed how like 70% of the pokemon world (at least in old games, I haven't really checked newer ones) is male? Or how the only married couples are like 98 years old? Or how *almost* no one ever has more than one living relative? Or how bug catchers are like 3 1/2 years old? These raise serious questions about the sustainability of the human population in Pokemon. Unless all the random people who randomly enter houses have sex with the people inside, who immediately after giving birth throw out the child (who is male because I said so) into the tall grass to become a 3 1/2 year old bug catcher :shock:
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Awia » Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:12 pm UTC

On the subject of real animals: In the first series of the anime I think there are a few mentions of real animals, and you even get to see some normal fish for a second in Misty's gym at the beginning of the anime, but as it goes on these mentions start to drop.
In the game I think they do mention real animals occasionally, but you never get to see them.
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:16 pm UTC

Awia wrote:On the subject of real animals: In the first series of the anime I think there are a few mentions of real animals, and you even get to see some normal fish for a second in Misty's gym at the beginning of the anime, but as it goes on these mentions start to drop.
In the game I think they do mention real animals occasionally, but you never get to see them.


Animals without superpowers have a pretty strong selective pressure against them.
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Awia » Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:23 pm UTC

There is no way they can win really, is there?
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby cwoodin » Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:04 pm UTC

qinwamascot wrote:
I find that number for lemonade very cheap. Around where I live, you can get a can of lemonade for about $1. A good bike, by my estimate, would cost maybe $400. So that's 400 drinks of lemonade. Admittedly, the Pokémon bike isn't very many orders of magnitude above the price in our world, but that bike better have, like, jet packs and a choice of paint jobs.


This is admittedly true, but then we have to look at it in terms of supply and demand. If everyone in the world either stands still or walks randomly around a 4x4 patch of grass, there isn't really any need to get a bike. If fewer people purchase bikes, the price per bike will go up. In addition, the demand for bikes is pretty inelastic; I can't really be part of a biker gang or go down cycling road without one, so we'd expect the price to go up by a lot.


What? Doesn't the price go down as supply goes up and demand goes down in order to encourage people to buy the product?
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:09 pm UTC

Kind of. But with very few people buying bikes, it's unlikely that there will be great bike-factories crafting them, so you won't get economies of scale going. It's a mass-production thing.
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby CVSoul » Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:26 pm UTC

Lots of people have bikes, but they just sit on elevated bike paths and tell you how much you suck because you crash into people who are about as responsive as brick walls. What's that? 10 minutes, 2 collisions? Maybe I was having a damned battle up there. These guys have magnemites and want to beat the crap out of me.

It's interesting they never attack you. I think VGcats hit that subject once (Switchblade, I choose you!) but nobody really explains how you pass out and wake up outside a veterinarian's office whenever all your pets get killed.

A couple other questions:
-According to sizes recorded in the pokedex, why can I use Fly with a Pidgey?
-Also according to those sizes, Pikachu weighs 25 lbs or so. So on the TV show, why does Ash just giggle like a little girl when it jumps on his head?
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby michaelandjimi » Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:40 pm UTC

CVSoul wrote:-According to sizes recorded in the pokedex, why can I use Fly with a Pidgey?
Also Wooper with surf, I believe.

And fire pokemon just sort of levitating when you are fighting in the water. Come to mention it, fire pokemon not dying when you fight underwater.
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby SJ Zero » Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:26 pm UTC

Most of the problems seem to be solved with the idea of scale.

Pokemon supplies, for example, could just be incredibly cheap. Using Lemonade as the commodity, this would put the bike in the 1400 dollar range. This seems to be a lot, but remember this is a bike you can carry around in your backpack. 1400 dollars is about the price you'd pay for a bike like that.

Next, it makes sense that the "adult" stores would be aggregated in one or two mega-malls. The distance between towns is generally walking distance, and the lack of any highway infrastructure in a modern setting leads me to believe that vehicles must be something that can fly, Dragonball-Z style. This means there's no practical reason for many stores, except for children who have to walk to the nearest pokemon center or gym.

Here's my theory: In ancient times, monsters ruled the land. Humans suffered as humans often do. Instead of waiting for a hero, magical devices were created to tame the creatures and store them in whatever "hammer space" you store your 99 potions and 99 pokeballs.

Today, the process is safe enough that children around the world are given strong pokemon and poke-balls and given free reign to fight other pokemon, making human-aligned pokemon more powerful and slowly causing wild pokemon to go extinct.

Pokemon hunting is the major sport and career in this world, to ensure packs of wild pikachu don't electrocute villages in their sleep. Careers of female pokemon hunters are cut short as their bodies aren't cut out for the rigurs of war, so parents use futuristic genetic modification technology to create male children.

And you know what? That's right, I just turned the world of pokemon into a bleak dysopian future!

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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby CVSoul » Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:18 pm UTC

thread necromancy ftw.

I just realized that, with the number of trainers you find on the roads vs. the number of houses in a city, there's got to be serious overcrowding issues. Especially in the first town; where does the fat guy that loves technology live?
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby SJ Zero » Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:19 pm UTC

He's a nomadic hunter/gather pokemon hunter. That's why Ash's mom was like "Well, you're 10, time to kick you out of the house! You're a man now!"

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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Gigalith » Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:27 am UTC

I once did a playthrough of Pokemon Diamond where I pseudo-roleplayed (i.e. mentally made the main character's reactions make sense) the main character trainer dude as some sort of revolutionary, perhaps even not even fully sane, warlord, fighting to 'overthrow' the Champion; whose terrible 'League' was forcing the populace to repeat the same lines and had also set up the gym system. All of this was in order to make the perfect environment for thousands of small children to unknowingly risk grievous injury far from home and at the same time brutally limit the local Pokemon population. Defeating a gym leader was equivalent to 'liberating' the town*, It was also never quite clear whether or not this was actually true or just a delusion of the protagonist from one of his own grievous injuries to the head, but it made for great replay value.

For even more nonsensicalness, try the GBC version of the Pokemon TGC. There is an entire continent that is so obsessed with Pokemon cards that there is even a Pokemon club on a LIVE VOLCANO where children gather to battle and somehow give away free booster packs. Not to mention that the main objects of the game, the legendary pokemon cards, can actually (and I am not making this up) speak telepathically. At points, scratch that, the entire game is a parody of itself.

*- Tiny, trivial, fact: If you tap your badges on the touch-screen, they make different pitched ringing sounds. You could even play Ode to Joy on them, I think.

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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby dasknocker » Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:32 am UTC

Ditto. Poor,poor ditto. Think too, on the implications of a world of ditto: who needs sex toys? Or better yet, your first date? Where would the line be drawn, could you actually marry such a thing as a transformed ditto?

Also, an adult version of Pokemon with morally ambiguous decisions would be WIN.
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby fishyfish777 » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:22 am UTC

Now, we stumble on the fact: Are pokemon edible?

Nonetheless the recent pokemon have screwed up recently. You don't see this nowadays.
Image

Instead, you see this:
Image
Something reminiscent of a covenant Elite from Halo. Gone wrong. Without a Plasma Sword or intellegence.

I always wished that Pokemon would soon implement a Tales of Synphonia kind of combat system. I never liked the combat system of Pokemon. Neither did I like ToS. But I like the general idea of the real-time combat of ToS.

So it'd be like 1v1 brawl, but with super moves from the start :p

SJ Zero wrote:Most of the problems seem to be solved with the idea of scale.

Pokemon supplies, for example, could just be incredibly cheap. Using Lemonade as the commodity, this would put the bike in the 1400 dollar range. This seems to be a lot, but remember this is a bike you can carry around in your backpack. 1400 dollars is about the price you'd pay for a bike like that.

Next, it makes sense that the "adult" stores would be aggregated in one or two mega-malls. The distance between towns is generally walking distance, and the lack of any highway infrastructure in a modern setting leads me to believe that vehicles must be something that can fly, Dragonball-Z style. This means there's no practical reason for many stores, except for children who have to walk to the nearest pokemon center or gym.

Here's my theory: In ancient times, monsters ruled the land. Humans suffered as humans often do. Instead of waiting for a hero, magical devices were created to tame the creatures and store them in whatever "hammer space" you store your 99 potions and 99 pokeballs.

Today, the process is safe enough that children around the world are given strong pokemon and poke-balls and given free reign to fight other pokemon, making human-aligned pokemon more powerful and slowly causing wild pokemon to go extinct.

Pokemon hunting is the major sport and career in this world, to ensure packs of wild pikachu don't electrocute villages in their sleep. Careers of female pokemon hunters are cut short as their bodies aren't cut out for the rigurs of war, so parents use futuristic genetic modification technology to create male children.

And you know what? That's right, I just turned the world of pokemon into a bleak dysopian future!


Oh jeez. I always wondered how you just run into people and you instantaneously stop. I think you should run into people and RUN THEIR ASS OVER. It's always frustrated me. You should get a car so you could kill people and get bad karma. But, it would introduce the element of driving in Pokemon games. And refueling. And avoiding cars. You shouldn't hear a fricking *bonk bonk bonk* when you run into something, you should hear a scream, some cracks, and your bike tip over and you fall off. Make boss battles much easier by running over the fricking final boss.

Also, if I had a legendary creature, couldn't I just harness it's energy beam to blow a hole in the wall of the elite four, as to proceed?

[edit]woop woop http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/6/20/
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Cynical Idealist » Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:26 am UTC

Also, if I had a legendary creature, couldn't I just harness it's energy beam to blow a hole in the wall of the elite four, as to proceed?

If you're talking about the early ones (gen 1/2)...yes.

If you're talking about certain later ones (don't have the games, found a wiki, have noticed some massive power creep in the fluff), the fluff states that they have much more interesting ways to go about it. Palkia has control of space, which you can use for Fun And Profit™. Dialga has the same but with time. Regigigas towed continents, so I don't think you even need to BOTHER with an energy beam. You could just kind of point it at your target and tell it to walk forward. Or you could just go ahead and mindwipe everyone with Uxie, then stroll right on past. Or Arceus...lets not even go there.
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby dasknocker » Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:48 pm UTC

fishyfish777 wrote:Image
Something reminiscent of a covenant Elite from Halo. Gone wrong. Without a Plasma Sword or intelligence.


Or: a shiny shiny space penis.
That is all.
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Jorpho » Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:00 pm UTC

dasknocker wrote:Ditto. Poor,poor ditto. Think too, on the implications of a world of ditto: who needs sex toys? Or better yet, your first date? Where would the line be drawn, could you actually marry such a thing as a transformed ditto?
It would run out of PP too quickly. ;)

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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Stief » Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:00 pm UTC

I recall that there was one break in on Red/Blue in Cerulean City, which involved a single policeman...it seems the only policeman in the game actually. Unless you count the thirsty guards...one could have gotten the drinks, I mean, they've already let Team Rocket in!
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby dasknocker » Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:32 am UTC

Stief wrote:I recall that there was one break in on Red/Blue in Cerulean City, which involved a single policeman...it seems the only policeman in the game actually. Unless you count the thirsty guards...one could have gotten the drinks, I mean, they've already let Team Rocket in!


Thirsty guards... the very idea of bribing figures of authority in a children's game makes me do a double-take.

Speaking of thirsty, remember the TM-holding gal/fellow on most of the shopping complexes? Man, first time I figured out what to do, I sold the TM she gave me and bought thirty more drinks- thinking I could get many more TMs-on-the-cheap. But alas, she only had one... whoops.
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby NMcCoy » Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:36 am UTC

I've vaguely contemplated a tongue-in-cheek "darker and edgier" take on the Pokemon universe, where Professor Oak is one of the rare individuals (along with a secret cabal - the people who were behind the organization of the Pokemon League) who understands the inner workings of the Pokemon World - specifically, that certain idealistic ten-year-olds are granted the ability to bend the laws of probability and physics, provided that they remain unaware of this fact. Thus, they can capture and control raw universe-shaping forces of nature through the Power of Friendship. Oak's role is to mentor these children, make sure they develop the proper skills to help keep the region's ecology, criminal elements, and living natural disasters in check, and choose a successor once the current kid becomes too old and loses his supernatural talents.

...It's safe to admit I've been contemplating writing Pokemon fanfiction here, right?
Right?
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Pa-Patch » Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:07 am UTC

I guess this is about the show and not the game, so somewhat OT:
Was anyone else always REALLY creeped out by Brock hanging out with Ash and Misty all the time? He always struck me as like 18, and he wanders the countryside with a pair of 12 year-olds. Throw in runaway, uncontrolled, CONSTANT sexual interest, and it's really concerning stuff.

And back on topic:
A lot of match-ups/RPG elements just don't make sense. I don't care if your Pidgey is level 50 and my Onyx is level 10. My GIANT ROCK SNAKE MONSTER can handle the SMALL BIRD. There are plenty of even more extreme examples.

Also, pollution monsters. What the hell?

Also, just consider the ramifications out of making an animal out of PURE DATA.

Oh, and ghosts are real. Doesn't seem to be a big deal, though.

Lastly, Cubones: Given that every single one wears its mother's skull (which is disconcerting), how the hell do they continue to exist? With no deaths/trainers interfering, there should be a 50% population drop every generation.

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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby NMcCoy » Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:34 am UTC

Cubone skull: It's metaphorical and/or like mitochondrial DNA.
Image

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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Yuri2356 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:57 am UTC

NMcCoy wrote:Cubone skull: It's metaphorical and/or like mitochondrial DNA.

A metaphorical plainly visible hollowed-out skull that the it wears as a fucking hat.

A metaphor, as a literal statement.

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