2123: "Space Mission Hearing"

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Raidri
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2123: "Space Mission Hearing"

Postby Raidri » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:13 pm UTC

Image

Title text: Our grant application contains one of those little greeting card speakers that plays spaceship noises when you open it.

Not sure which argument would win me over more, they are both compelling.

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Keyman
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Re: 2123: "Space Mission Hearing"

Postby Keyman » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:58 pm UTC

Just sent it to Planetary Society's Casey Dreier as a possible training slide before our next "Day of Action" at the US Capitol to #FundNASA.
Some of us may have not been enthusiastic enough in our meetings with the Congress-critters earlier this month.
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speising
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Re: 2123: "Space Mission Hearing"

Postby speising » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:29 pm UTC

why is this numbered 2123 and also links to that page?

rmsgrey
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Re: 2123: "Space Mission Hearing"

Postby rmsgrey » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:51 pm UTC

speising wrote:why is this numbered 2123 and also links to that page?

Probably someone copy-pasting the previous post?

On topic, I'd suggest, rather than spaceship noises, you use a card that plays Thus Spake Zarathustra (runner-up: Blue Danube)

xtifr
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Re: 2123: "Space Mission Hearing"

Postby xtifr » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:50 pm UTC

Isn't "spaceship noises" close to being an oxymoron?
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Heimhenge
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Re: 2123: "Space Mission Hearing"

Postby Heimhenge » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:10 pm UTC

xtifr wrote:Isn't "spaceship noises" close to being an oxymoron?


Well of course. I recall reading somewhere that Spielberg's scientific advisors told him you wouldn't hear all those sound effects in space, except for your own ship being hit. He chose to overrule them for obvious reasons.

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Re: 2123: "Space Mission Hearing"

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:59 pm UTC

I vaguely recall some sci-fi show explaining that the "space noises" heard therein are artificially generated by one's own ship so as to provide auditory information about one's surroundings. The ship is just scanning stuff with light, but it can tell how that stuff is vibrating through those scans, and generate sounds so that you can immediately hear that something big and violent just happened behind you, without having to look at a readout of scans to tell.
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Soupspoon
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Re: 2123: "Space Mission Hearing"

Postby Soupspoon » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:00 pm UTC

I heard it was Lucas. But it applies just as true/apocryphal across the board, I'm sure. Except, notably, with Kubrick.

@ninjaPfhorrest: like a 'glass' cockpit, but… speaker-stuff! ;)

crystalmeph
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Re: 2123: "Space Mission Hearing"

Postby crystalmeph » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:08 pm UTC

Former NASA Administrator Mike Griffin put it very well in a speech back in 2007.

...
If you ask why we're going back to the Moon and, later, beyond, you can get a variety of answers. The President, quite correctly said that we do it for purposes of scientific discovery, economic benefit and national security. I've given speeches on each of those topics, and I think these reasons can be clearly shown to be true. And Presidential Science Advisor Jack Marburger has said that questions about space exploration come down to whether or not we want to bring the solar system within mankind's sphere of economic influence. I think that is extraordinarily well put.

These reasons have in common the fact that they can be discussed within the circles of public policy making. They can be debated on their merits, on logical principles. They can be justified. They are what I am going to call tonight "Acceptable Reasons." You can attach whatever importance you want to any of those factors, and some citizens will weight some factors more and some will weight them less, but most of us would agree that they are, indeed, relevant factors.

But who talks like that? Who talks about doing something for purposes of scientific or economic gain or national security other than in policy circles? If anybody asked Lindberg why he crossed the Atlantic - and many did -he never indicated that he personally flew the Atlantic to win the Orteig prize. His backers might have done it in part for that, but Lindberg did it for other reasons.

If you ask Burt Rutan why he designed and built Voyager, and why Dick Rutan and Jeanna Yeager flew it around the world, it wasn't for any money involved, it was because it was one of the last unconquered feats in aviation. If you ask Burt and his backer Paul Allen why they developed a vehicle to win the X-Prize, it wasn't for the money. They spent twice as much as they made.

I think we all know why people do some of these things. They are well-captured in many famous phrases. When Sir George Mallory was asked why he wanted to climb Mount Everest, he said "Because it is there." He didn't say that it was for economic gain.

We know these reasons, and tonight I will call them "Real Reasons". Real Reasons are intuitive and compelling to all of us, but they're not immediately logical. They're exactly the opposite of Acceptable Reasons, which are eminently logical but neither intuitive nor emotionally compelling. The Real Reasons we do things like exploring space involve competitiveness, curiosity and monument building. So let's talk about them.
...


No matter how logically you try to frame your actions, fundamentally we all have drives that are not entirely logical. Even if you dedicate yourself to gaining and applying highly technical knowledge in the most rational and planned methods possible, there is still a reason which makes that effort worthwhile to you. We create value in our own hearts and minds, there is no objective "value" to be found anywhere in the ordered universe.

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Keyman
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Re: 2123: "Space Mission Hearing"

Postby Keyman » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:27 pm UTC

And before that....
We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win.

And while I know it was the "win" part that was so very important (then), whereas the "postpone" part seems to have taken over some circles (now), that still sums it up for me.

And I heartily recommend "American Moonshot: John F. Kennedy and the Great Space Race" - by Douglas Brinkley.
Nothing could be more ill-judged than that intolerant spirit which has, at all times, characterized political parties. - A. Hamilton

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Heimhenge
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Re: 2123: "Space Mission Hearing"

Postby Heimhenge » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:43 pm UTC

Or Robert Wilson's defense of pure science ...

"It only has to do with the respect with which we regard one another, the dignity of men, our love of culture. It has to do with those things. It has to do with, are we good painters, good sculptors, great poets? I mean all the things that we really venerate and honor in our country and are patriotic about. It has nothing to do directly with defending our country except to help make it worth defending."

— Robert R. Wilson, answering Congress' question on how the new accelerator will affect the nation's security.

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colonel_hack
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Re: 2123: "Space Mission Hearing"

Postby colonel_hack » Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:29 am UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:I vaguely recall some sci-fi show explaining that the "space noises" heard therein are artificially generated by one's own ship so as to provide auditory information about one's surroundings. The ship is just scanning stuff with light, but it can tell how that stuff is vibrating through those scans, and generate sounds so that you can immediately hear that something big and violent just happened behind you, without having to look at a readout of scans to tell.

The explanation I heard late 70sish was the electric fields generated by the other ships (say a TIE fighter) engines vibrated the hull of your ship. Hence some were more screeches than roars.

Of course the TIE fighters could also be called ``Paired Ionic Engine'' fighters...

rmsgrey
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Re: 2123: "Space Mission Hearing"

Postby rmsgrey » Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:57 pm UTC

I forget how I first came across the idea of artificial soundscapes in space - even whether I came up with it independently, or encountered it from someone else - but however I originally encountered it, I immediately adopted it. Anyone who's ever played a videogame is familiar with the idea of using computer-generated sounds to give you relevant information (okay, not every game does it, but the vast majority do) despite there being no way for the sound to travel from the virtual world (to the extent it makes sense to think of the game's world as real) to the real world.

If a ship's engines are radiating non-directional electric fields intense enough to create buzzes in "nearby" spaceships, then what do they do to their own ship?


As for reasons for going into space, the Veritasium YouTube channel recently had an interview with Richard Branson about Virgin Galactic and their recent successes, where Branson made it quite clear that the reason he's thrown a large chunk of his resources into space tourism is because he wants to be on one of the first flights - and the most economical way to get a private spaceplane is by selling tickets to other people who also want to go into space, and sell investors on the idea of getting returns from commercial flights.

wumpus
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Re: 2123: "Space Mission Hearing"

Postby wumpus » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:56 pm UTC

colonel_hack wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:I vaguely recall some sci-fi show explaining that the "space noises" heard therein are artificially generated by one's own ship so as to provide auditory information about one's surroundings. The ship is just scanning stuff with light, but it can tell how that stuff is vibrating through those scans, and generate sounds so that you can immediately hear that something big and violent just happened behind you, without having to look at a readout of scans to tell.

The explanation I heard late 70sish was the electric fields generated by the other ships (say a TIE fighter) engines vibrated the hull of your ship. Hence some were more screeches than roars.

Of course the TIE fighters could also be called ``Paired Ionic Engine'' fighters...


I heard a twice told tale about the sound of the tie fighter. Supposedly one of the foley artists was driving along a construction crew when a jackhammer had a rock jammed inside, making the iconic sound of the tie fighter. The foley artist paid whatever it took to bring the jackhammer back to the studio.

You can retcon the sci-fi universe all you want, but the new stuff is always defined by "the rule of cool" and the justification is written later (if ever).

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Soupspoon
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Re: 2123: "Space Mission Hearing"

Postby Soupspoon » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:46 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:If a ship's engines are radiating non-directional electric fields intense enough to create buzzes in "nearby" spaceships, then what do they do to their own ship?

Maybe they're standing waves, the ship (at least without throttling/directional changes, which does get felt anyway) is sitting in a static effect, or one that the ship is engineered to effortlessly withstand/neuter at anything significantly under "the engines cannae tak it, cap'n!" power.

Keeping station with that ship (in another?) is like parking on rumble-strips, but of course when in relative motion you're driving over the rumble-strips, and get feedback (perhaps in actuality) in line with the nature of how the other ship buzzes you, in both senses.

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Heimhenge
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Re: 2123: "Space Mission Hearing"

Postby Heimhenge » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:10 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:I vaguely recall some sci-fi show explaining that the "space noises" heard therein are artificially generated by one's own ship so as to provide auditory information about one's surroundings. The ship is just scanning stuff with light, but it can tell how that stuff is vibrating through those scans, and generate sounds so that you can immediately hear that something big and violent just happened behind you, without having to look at a readout of scans to tell.


Makes more sense to me than picking up unintentional noise from electric fields. You'd think if they could build that kind of drive, they could also stealth it. And what fighter pilot wants to give away their location?

So yeah, I'd design it into my own ship and use a 3D surround sound system to get audio cues about what's going on around me.

rattusprat
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Re: 2123: "Space Mission Hearing"

Postby rattusprat » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:08 am UTC

"What is the main reason to fund this mission?"

"To appease the ever-changing demands of a fringe conspiracy group and provide evidence to them that the Earth is in fact (approximately) spherical and space is in fact real. It would be nice to get additional funding in the future to advance our long-term goal of better understanding the formation and evolution of the solar system, while fulfilling our mandate to develop a new generation of interplanetary spacecraft, but for now our primary focus is to continue to provide additional evidence for something science has been pretty sure of for over 2000 years."

At least that is what a certain group expects the response to be.

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Archgeek
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Re: 2123: "Space Mission Hearing"

Postby Archgeek » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:13 pm UTC

Heimhenge wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:I vaguely recall some sci-fi show explaining that the "space noises" heard therein are artificially generated by one's own ship so as to provide auditory information about one's surroundings. The ship is just scanning stuff with light, but it can tell how that stuff is vibrating through those scans, and generate sounds so that you can immediately hear that something big and violent just happened behind you, without having to look at a readout of scans to tell.


Makes more sense to me than picking up unintentional noise from electric fields. You'd think if they could build that kind of drive, they could also stealth it. And what fighter pilot wants to give away their location?

Unfortunately, there is no stealth in space -- if a fighter pilot's doing any sort of maneuver, their engines will be an absolute beacon somewhere on the EM spectrum. Space stealth just slams hard into the fact that there's no doing energetic things in a vacuum without hurling that energy into the void to all to see. Same problem with Dyson spheres obscuring K2 civs -- sure their star would be dark in the visible, but it would be a weirdly bright IR, microwave, or maybe radio source, depending on how efficient they are.
"That big tube down the side was officially called a "systems tunnel", which is aerospace contractor speak for "big tube down the side."

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keithl
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Re: 2123: "Space Mission Hearing"

Postby keithl » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:15 am UTC

The Mars 2020 mission launches in July 2020, for a landing on 18 February 2021. Its stated purpose is to explore Mars, but its real purpose will be to deliver a pdf of the upcoming "How To" book to the Martians, as part of the on-board firmware. The misinformation is sure to make their next invasion attempt fail, just like their last attempt in 1938.


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